I just don't get it

[emilyg]

HomeDiariesBreaking BlueE-Wire 2008I Just Don't Get It
by Jjc2008, Sun May 04, 2008 at 11:39:31 AM EST

So this has been bothering me. Huffington and Moulitas. Both run blogs that have declared open war on Senator Clinton.
Arianna was a right wing mouth piece during the Clinton years, was married to a conservative, a man who was a republican appointee of Reagan's and eventually a congressman. She had a blog during to 90s, a rallying place for Clinton haters wanting to get Bill Clinton out of office. Her ex was a multimillionaire and this is where she got her money. She admitted to being friends with Newt Gingrich. So we have a Reagan lover, a multimillionarie who hated the Clintons as a part of her everyday life and NOW, suddenly she a populist progressive who is shilling for Obama to defeat Hillary. She is a hero of the new left while a true liberal like Senator Clinton has been demonized because at 15 she was a republican (nevermind that overwhelming young kids identify with the party of the parents). I don't get it.

dkos is owned by his own admission as former young Reagan lover.
Maybe he was a kid like Hillary. Yet her young teen years as a "Goldwater Girl" gets her demonized but his young years are OK? Hmmmmmmmmmmm....now he hates the Clintons, and has created a blog that helps destroy her, a blog where using the "racism" attack against the Clintons is acceptable. Yet he once supported Reagan, a man who went to Philadelphia, Mississippi, and used coded racist words to win his presidency.

Suddenly, people like me, an old white woman

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/4/113931/5827

[Skittles]

1. I don't get it either

BuzzFlash, Obermann - plenty of DUers have become more anti-HRC than they EVER were anti-REPUKE

[anigbrowl]

4. Civil wars have a unique kind of bitterness, because it's inevitably more personal

It's easy to come to DU and trash Republicans, but all too often we fail as Democrats because it's too easy to get an 'Amen!' by saying 'I hate 'em!' without examining why they're wrong or why they're successful in the polls from time to time.

Condemnation of what you disagree with feels good, but doesn't rbing you any closer to understanding your enemy or how to defeat them. And it's easy for a forum like DU to become an echo chamber. Every time someone calls the other party 'Rethuglicans' or 'Repukes' or whatever, it's meat and drink to the GOP - they say we're eaten up by hate, and gives them an excuse to label us 'Democreeps' or 'Dimocrats'. Oh sure, they'd do that anyway...but meanwhile it's grist to the mill of people like Ann Coulter or whoever.

an internal struggle like this forces us to face up to divisions in our own party between pragmatists and idealists, authoritarians and advocates, strategists and shouters.

[Forkboy]

7. The primary has brought to head a problem with Dems that's been brewing for over a decade.

Namely, the one between the left side of the party and the center of the party, a division that Nader was able to capitalize on. Sadly, we've used him as a boogeyman to escape having to look at ourselves and address this potential split that we now see unfolding. We still haven't addressed this issue in any meaningful way, and we're seeing the ugly downside to the ostrich approach we've adopted. In the long run I believe that neither can do much without the other, but that kind of thinking doesn't get far here, where Nader is our Clenis instead of the canary in the coal mine he should have been seen as.

The one funny thing about it though is that both Clinton and Obama are firmly in the center, but the perception is that Hillary is the DLC centrist and Obama is more the populist.

It's a funny ole world.

[RaleighNCDUer]

11. Actually, it's between the center and the right -

there is no left in this party.

And the reason Clinton is seen as the DLC "centrist" is because she IS the DLC - she ascribes to their platform, she uses their tactics and she is on their goddam website as a leading member.

And while Obama is a centrist he does not disparage the populists or (generally) even the few leftists that hang on in the party, and since Hillary openly despises the activists, that makes him the default populist.

The day that Obama starts railing against the activist democratic left, I'll give up on him, too.

[Forkboy]

12. All good points.

[cboy4]

14. That's what's funny because I bet Obama doesn't care

for the "activist democratic left."

Yet, he's beloved here by many people I believe he would shun.

[JVS]

22. It just shows he's not stupid like Hillary, who decided to bash the activist democratic left.

[Two Americas]

21. actually... :)

It is between the socially liberal and the economically liberal IMHO. As you say, there is no left. What is worse is that there is no politics of any kind. Politics is about economics and power, not style or "culture war" issues.

[Tesha]

39. Well said on all points. (NT)

[BigBearJohn]

34. Wow. Thanks for posting this, Anigbrowl . Very insightful words. Amazing.

There are a few real gems on DU. You're one of 'em.
Guess that's why I keep coming back.
Sure have to kiss a lot of frogs to find that one prince, though.
:hug: :hug::hug: :hug::hug: :hug::hug: :hug::hug: :hug:

[The Doctor.]

15. That's nonsense; "DUers have become more anti-HRC than they EVER were anti-REPUKE".

Ridiculous.


I'd put it to a poll, but there's no way to know if Clinton supporters were skewing it.

If even 1% of respondents said they 'hated Clinton more than Bush' I'd be shocked.

That goes for KO and BF too.

Stop saying stupid shit.

[Eric Condon]

27. You're right - you really don't get it.

What you don't understand is that we are anti-Hillary BECAUSE we're anti-Repuke. Our disdain for her stems from the same reasons why we don't like the Republicans.

[Skittles]

29. oh PLEASE

:rofl:

[RC]

36. Oh, PLEASE? Hillary is a DINO. No two ways about it.

Eric is correct. What does distinguish Hillary from a republican running for office? Not much that I can see. People are even wondering if she is getting advice from Karl Rove. We can't afford 4 more years of republican rule and that will be what we get under Hillary.

[paulk]

41. what does distinguish Hillary from a Republican ?

her voting record?

where she votes 95% of the time with the Democratic majority?

the same as Obama?

it's mindnumbingly stupid posts like yours that discredit Obama and the left wing of the party...

[RC]

44. Reread my post.

I said nothing about Obama. I said nothing about Hillary's voting record. I ask; "What does distinguish Hillary from a republican running for office?" Answer that question. Responses about her voting record doesn't cut it.

When you respond to a post, read the post first.

Voting 95% of the time with the Democratic majority is still often times what the republican want anyway. I wouldn't be bringing that up as a selling point till we get a liberal Democratic majority in Congress. What we have now is a conservative Democratic party, a Central-left wing of the Republican party. The true political center is way to the Left of where people think it is.

Hillary Clinton is no Liberal. Obama is a centralist and Hillary is to the Right of Obama. Democrat does not mean liberal, especially not now.

We need a real Democrat for President and Obama is the closest we have at the moment and he leaves a few things to be desired, but at least he isn't threating to bomb Iran, doesn't hang with big Republican money, lie about sniper fire he has endured. Even Rush has said good things about Hillary. We need to start repairing the damage of the last 7 years and it ain't gonna happen with Hillary in bu$h's shoes.

Mindnumbingly stupid indeed.

[paulk]

45. blah blah blah

what the fuck do you think DINO stands for?

what the fuck do you think "republican" is?

yeah, "mind numbingly stupid" is right on the money.

cripes.

[Downtown Hound]

2. Look, if you don't get by now why people aren't buying the Clinton

brand then you never will. It has been explained time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time again. The fact that she was a Republican at age 15 has nothing to do with it, and I find that excuse even more silly than it's all about sexism.

[ossman]

3. Because she is acting like a Repug now. Elitist labeling? From a fellow Dem? really?

Gee i wonder why Democrats hate the person bashing the Dem POTUS candidate?

[knixphan]

5. exactly - it ain't rocket surgery...

[cliffordu]

6. LOL - rocket surgery...

:rofl:

[McCamy Taylor]

8. "Forget it, Jake. it's Chinatown." Arianna is in it for the money and prestige.

She had to switch to the left so that it would look like she was setting out as her own woman. If she had stayed on the right, it would have looked like more of the same. This way she came claim that she "invented" herself. She has no talent, could not write herself out of a tissue paper bag. Her only accomplishment as far as I can tell is snark and putting on eyeliner (see, I can do snark too).

Have no idea what is up with dkos. The site is so poorly organized that I gave up posting there. I could never find anything. I enjoyed libraries when I was young. Liked being able to locate books and articles quickly.

I do know that a lot of what passes for "progressive" journalism is just corporate lite. People start out in progressive land in hopes of getting an audience so that they can make it into the show. So they are never going to say the truth about 1) the mainstream media since that is where they want a job 2) poverty in America because they are not writing to impress the poor they want to create product that can be used to attract that demographic that advertisers love and that KO is so fond of and 3) they all aspire to be some variation of William F. Buckley---a guy with no talent who can fool the world into thinking that he is important.

[FrenchieCat]

9. Maybe I can do it with pictures. Sometimes that's easier for some folks:

Tell me if this rings a bell.

"there are some whites who are probably not ready to vote for an African-American candidate"


"Jesse Jackson ran a good campaign. And Obama ran a good campaign here."



"He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept.”


"there's a difference between denouncing and rejecting."


denouncing and rejecting This guy




Ed Rendel Endorses Louis Farrakhan, same guy Hillary wanted Obama to denounce and renounce
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXum_-8I1TA

[JVS]

13. Ed Rendell's repeated joking that the solution to the MI FL situation is to shoot Howard Dean is...

also a sore point. I hope that when he runs for re-election that that Farrakhan speech is played 24-7

[Egnever]

24. WTF he said that?

[JVS]

25. Madfloridian posted about it. Let me see if I can dig it up.

[JVS]

26. Here's one

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4763930

[Egnever]

30. GRRR !

[Yael]

40. He can't run again. Thank the Lord above -- we are DONE with him in 2010.

[jackson_dem]

28. Why didn't you post Obama using racist code words?

Rendell was vindicated by the exit poll. Bill Clinton was historically correct (Obamites have yet to produce anyone who won a SC primary with 80-90% support from one racial group and 20% support from the other). Questioning Obama about a bigot endorsement is legitimate. the question is why would someone like Farrakhan endorse Obama in the first place? If David Duke endorsed Hillary she would be asked about it. Fortunately, all the bigot endorsements seem to go to Obama and not her. Ferraro was wrong, although she may be vindicated as well since many Obamites post-PA are making an argument based on "the concept" that they believe entitles him to the nomination.

Now what about Obama himself using racist code words a la Reagan in SC?

[MadBadger]

10. Taylor Marsh

[unblock]

16. arianna saw the light quite some time ago; "NOW, suddenly" is not at all accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianna_Huffington

Huffington's shift in political ideology was purportedly inspired by her Left, Right & Center segment colleague, Robert Scheer. Huffington's political transition coincided with the crisis in the Balkans during the 1990s. Huffington was a vocal opponent of American intervention against the Serbians during the Bosnian and Kosovo wars. Huffington publicly showed support against the U.S. intervention to stop genocide and atrocities in Somalia in 1991. <3>

In 2000, she instigated the 'Shadow Conventions', which appeared at the Republican National Convention in Philadelphia and the Democratic National Convention in Los Angeles.

Huffington heads The Detroit Project, a public interest group lobbying automakers to start producing cars running on alternative fuels. The project's 2003 TV ads, which equated driving sport utility vehicles to funding terrorism, proved to be particularly controversial, with some stations refusing to run them.

In a 2004 appearance on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart she announced her endorsement of John Kerry by saying that "When your house is burning down, you don't worry about the remodeling." In recent years, she has moved closer to the Democratic Party. Huffington was a panel speaker during the 2005 California Democratic Party State Convention, held in Los Angeles. She also spoke at the 2004 College Democrats of America Convention in Boston, which was held in conjunction with the 2004 Democratic National Convention.

[Cali_Democrat]

17. What matters is the Arianna and Kos speak for Progressives NOW

Thank gawd for them and their AWESOME websites...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

http://www.dailykos.com/

:woohoo:

[rodeodance]

19. I do not see them as progressives. Many times it is difficult to tell them apart

the RW.

[Cali_Democrat]

23. These websites are RW to you?

:rofl:

[rodeodance]

37. more specifically I was referring to Obama fans who us RW smears to diss

a Democrat. Lots of them here on DU also.

[cali]

42. tell it to John Conyers, John Kerry and the hundreds of other prominent

progressives and dems who post on kos. they certainly know more than you.

[hfojvt]

18. What is not to get?

First, neither Arianna nor Kos are running for office. Second, Arianna switched sometime in 2002 and has been on TV and in the blogosphere mostly fighting for progressive causes and against the Bush administration. Both she and Kos have done more to oppose Bush in the last seven years than Senator Clinton or former President Clinton have.

Hillary is vilified for far more than just being a former Goldwater girl. Just to name a few there was her endorsement of McCain and his many years of experience versus Obama and his mere speech, the Bosnian sniper tales, the Ferraro comments, pushing Ayers and Wright, and then something about a war in some country. I cannot remember the name, but I think it starts with the letter "I" but it's not Italy or Iberia. Maybe you've heard of it, and there's an internet rumour that she voted for this war and promoted it while former Reagan voters like myself and Kos were probably against it.

[Hissyspit]

20. Let's see... Huffington spoke out forcefully against the war before the war, when it was risky

and unpopular to do so: http://dir.salon.com/story/opinion/huffington/2003/07/16/state_of_the_union Started a major innovative blog site to get the voices of the left out to the mainsteam.

Clinton listened to Condi Rice and voted for the authorization for military force and then kept saying it looked like things would turn around in Iraq. She was silent or equivicating in opposition to the war: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-mitchell/as-war-neared-in-2003-_b_91747.html

What is there not to get?

[democracy1st]

31. Quite a few Liberals thought they were Republicans

[BigBearJohn]

32. Thanks EmilyG... you cleared up something for me.

:hug:

[susankh4]

33. That is an excellent piece....

and it states what is so wrong with this primary IMO.

The workhorses, like Hillary (and myself) are being scapegoated by the ... yes, I'll say it.... "latte liberal" Ray-gun Dems. While their puppet sails toward a nomination that could return Ray-gun-esque economics to the White House.

All I can say is: the sheeple will get what they deserve. And, if we do end up with another eight years of Ray-gun economics .... it won't be worse than Bush.

Alas, I console myself.

[dkf]

35. What is more weird is that Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan are in love with Hillary Clinton.

as is Richard Mellon Scaife.

Now THAT is some weird stuff.

[sellitman]

38. Don't forget Operation Chaos

The Fat Drug Addict also has a woodie for her.

[Lannigan]

43. No, he doesn't.

He never said he "loved" or even "liked" Hillary. He is hoping that prolonging this thing will tear us apart. He only loves himself. Listen to his show (if you can stomach it - I can only tune in to spy for about 15 minute increments) and you'll hear it.