I Love How The Term Progressive Gets Thrown Around Here, As If Some Of You Own It.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

Cracks me up. Fact is, so many here are extreme progressives with minds as closed as I've ever seen. But being a narrow minded zealot doesn't make one a progressive. It never ceases to amaze me how easily some here throw the term around while seemingly holding their nose up in the air, as if they have a market on what is and isn't a progressive. Well get a grip. Progressivism is political viewpoint that probably every member of this site shares for the most part. It isn't this strict tight boundaried viewpoint that some here put it off as. In fact, the way some here throw the term around and use it almost as weapon, as if it is some elite group that only a select few can join, makes me almost embarrassed to be associated with the some of the so called progressives here. Personally, after seeing the term used over and over here I've come to the conclusion that half of the people using it and claiming to be the be all end alls of what progressivism is, have no fucking idea at all what being a progressive is. They think they do, but they don't. What they do know, is how to be a zealot.

Here's a fucking fact for ya: Hillary Clinton is technically a Progressive. Yes, she is. If you don't think she is, if you put your nose in the air and claim "Hillary is NOT a progressive! Not by a longshot! How can you say that!" then you simply don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Hillary is a progressive. Deal with it. Educate yourself on what being a progressive actually is. K? Thanks.

[Hoof Hearted]

1. yeah, noticed that myself.

The Democratic party has a lot of "Popes" on this board. They who shall decide who is allowed into the church, and who shall be cast out.

[PoliticalAmazon]

32. Notice how Hillary supporters love to tell others they aren't a Democrat? n/t

[Hoof Hearted]

48. I spend way too much time here and yet I've NEVER seen that. The burden is therefore

upon you.

[Justitia]

50. I've had Hillary supporters tell me I wasn't a Democrat, multiple times - LOL.

At least not their kind of Dem, I'm sure.

[leftynyc]

57. And I've had Sen Obama supporters

call me a freeper. Assholes are everywhere.

[PoliticalAmazon]

93. How could you not have seen it? It happens often. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

115. I've seen it numerous times

And since I put those DUers on ignore as soon as I see that crap, no I can't post any links. But you bet it happens. A lot.

[MonkeyFunk]

49. I see Obama supportes do it all the time

very rarely does a Clinton supporter do it.

[rodeodance]

66. Its Obama fans who shout that at Hillary fans every day. --and you know that.

[Marrah_G]

108. Funny, the poll this morning clearly says it is your camp telling others they are not Dems

[WinkyDink]

119. No, frankly, I've NEVER seen that. Care to provide a quote or two?

[Aloha Spirit]

2. Somehow, I don't think this message will effectively reach the target audience.

[BuyingThyme]

3. The progressives voted against the holocaust in Iraq.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

7. Here:

zeal·ot Audio Help /ˈzɛlət/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a person who shows zeal.
2. an excessively zealous person; fanatic.
3. (initial capital letter) a member of a radical, warlike, ardently patriotic group of Jews in Judea, particularly prominent from a.d. 69 to 81, advocating the violent overthrow of Roman rule and vigorously resisting the efforts of the Romans and their supporters to heathenize the Jews.

[BuyingThyme]

12. Great. Now figure out a way to explain your post.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

16. I Did Explain It.

Now figure out a way to open your mind enough to the point of letting some reality sink in, so that maybe you can understand the concept.

[BuyingThyme]

17. The reality that Hillary Clinton will do ANYTHING for political advantage?

Or the fact that such a person cannot possibly be considered progressive?

[rodeodance]

67. So will Obama. He played the pandy bear to working class voters this week.

[PVnRT]

100. O RLY?

What did he do, propose a gas tax to save his sinking campaign?

[lligrd]

4. Sorry, Progressives Don't Threaten To Obliterate Countries

or pass sham tax holidays.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

5. Mind Showing Me Where In The Rule Book It Says That? K? Thanks.

[chascarrillo]

41. Oh Jesus. Now, nuking countries is "progressive". What the fuck ever.

[lligrd]

54. Mind Showing Me The Difference Between Her And McCain

aside from the health care issue? And Hillary might be the better friend to corporations on that one by forcing us to buy it.

[leftynyc]

58. Sen Clinton voted against both

Roberts and Alito - McCain voted yes for both. Next question.

[tabasco]

68. You don't even attempt to define what you think a progressive is.

You made an unsupported claim that H. Clinton is a progressive. without supporting that claim in any way.

People call you on your weak argument and you call them names. Typical.



Progressives fight people like this, not pander to them:





Progressives don't lie to their constituents:





Progressives don't take money for facilitating uranium deals with murderous dictators:



Progressives don't cowardly vote for unjustified carnage because of political pressure:



BOTTOM LINE: I DON'T THINK YOU KNOW WHAT THE TERM PROGRESSIVE MEANS.

[stevietheman]

71. Your lack of acknowledgement there is downright creepy. n/t

n/t

[democracy1st]

90. So you're this super intellectual now,man give it a break and go read a book

[jeffrey_X]

122. Or vote to go to war

eofm

[Bonobo]

6. Unfortunately, there is literally no substitution for language so...

We will just have to continue to try to bridge the chasm of understanding with those crude symbols called words.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

14. But Many Here Completely Abuse The Understanding Of The Word.

They take the concept to an idealogical extreme and twist it as if it were theirs to own and define. But that's not reality. In reality, the concepts of progressivism are shared by most if not all here, and are shared by Hillary as well. That's a fact. The little narrow minded in a bubble view of what being a progressive is as put forth by some here, is just nothing but ignorant silliness.

[Bonobo]

18. Okay, probably best discussed issue by issue. Those labels are worn to the point of meaningless.

"Conservatives" aren't even "conservative" either.

Hell, Bill was both conservative and progressive in some ways.

Shrub is a radical. Not conservative at all on the other hand.

I understand your point.

[FogCityJohn]

31. Hillary a "progressive"?

Perhaps you could point to a couple of progressive ideas shared by Hillary Clinton. Would voting for the Iraq war be one? Perhaps a vote for the Kyl-Lieberman amendment? Or should we go back to her husband's presidency (if we're on one of the days she's claiming credit for it) and look at NAFTA, which he got passed over the opposition of a majority of Democrats? Or how about that good old Defense of Marriage Act? (That's pretty progressive, especially when you sign it after calling it a divisive piece of legislation.) Maybe we could call Hillary's support of the bankruptcy bill progressive, since it certainly represented "progress" for credit card companies. Or how about her position on the Bush tax cuts?

Face it, Hillary's a run-of-the-mill DLC Democrat. Those folks may be many things, but progressive isn't one of them. No, they're not Bush, but they're a far cry from progressive. The party has always had its Tories, and Hillary is unquestionably one of them (at least these days). So go ahead and try to claim that elusive "center." But don't try to make people believe it's progressive. It isn't, and no amount of negative campaigning will make it so.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

103. Yes, Hillary Believes In Progressivism. Deal With It.

[msongs]

8. obama's interest in invading pakistan is progressive - progressively aggressive :-) nt

[BuyingThyme]

15. Progressives don't make up shit about invading Pakistan.

Hillary supporters do.

[gmudem]

23. Most progressives don't lie like that.

Of course it's not like there's that big of a difference between saying you will attack a certain area on very solid intelligence, and saying you will obliterate an entire country.

Oh wait, there's a huge difference.

[BootinUp]

9. short minded zealots aren't quite as bad

as narrow minded ones I think.

[Skittles]

10. NONE of the candidates are true progressives n/t

[oldgrowth]

20. I'm a Obama supporter and your right!!!

[Maddy McCall]

11. Kick/Rec.

Good post...timely.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stimbox]

19. Michael Parenti -- What Progressives want?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICaUW-MrN2Q

I don't think Hillary or Obama want all of these things.

[Aloha Spirit]

28. First of all, I love me some Mark Twain quotes...second, I agree, but Obama's tax plans are way more

progressive.

[OzarkDem]

85. His business deregulation plans aren't

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/02/opinion/02krugman.html

[Aloha Spirit]

98. Oh my God! I can't believe you made me look at Krugman. Seriously though, I didn't see anything in

that article that said Obama doesn't value or promote progressive ideas when it comes to regulation.
Flexible regulations are not a Republican idea--that's the point that Krugman was making, no?

Yeah, I'm not buying your argument yet.
Convince me.

[Blue-Jay]

21. That was a smooth play of the "elitist card". +6!

shitfuck. +2

[burythehatchet]

125. smooth like loose, frothy stool

[Texas Hill Country]

22. k&r

[boppers]

24. I Love How The Term Democrat Gets Thrown Around Here, As If Some Of You Own It.

Cracks me up. Fact is, so many here are extreme democrats with minds as closed as I've ever seen. But being a narrow minded zealot doesn't make one a democrat. It never ceases to amaze me how easily some here throw the term around while seemingly holding their nose up in the air, as if they have a market on what is and isn't a democrat. Well get a grip. Being Democratic is political viewpoint that probably every member of this site shares for the most part. It isn't this strict tight boundaried viewpoint that some here put it off as. In fact, the way some here throw the term around and use it almost as weapon, as if it is some elite group that only a select few can join, makes me almost embarrassed to be associated with the some of the so called democrats here. Personally, after seeing the term used over and over here I've come to the conclusion that half of the people using it and claiming to be the be all end alls of what being democratic is, have no fucking idea at all what being a being democratic is. They think they do, but they don't. What they do know, is how to be a zealot.

Here's a fucking fact for ya: Hillary Clinton is technically a Democrat. Yes, she is. If you don't think she is, if you put your nose in the air and claim "Hillary is NOT a democrat! Not by a longshot! How can you say that!" then you simply don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Hillary is a democrat. Deal with it. Educate yourself on what being a democrat actually is. K? Thanks.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

27. True Too LOL

[ekwhite]

25. Yeah, that threatening to obliterate Iran piece is awfully progressive

as is the Obama is not a Muslim 'as far as I know' bit, the McCain is more qualified to be president than Obama is, the Obama in a turban emails, the scary black preacher hit pieces, etc., etc., etc. So was voting for AUMF, NAFTA, and a whole host of other issues.

[Two Americas]

26. good post

"Progressive" is poorly defined and relatively meaningless. It has become a matter of taste, style and fashion more that anything political, and as you point out it is a convenient excuse for being arrogant and self-righteous.

"Progressive" is becoming a tight little exclusive club more and more - an approach that is exactly opposite to that required for political success. There are daily calls for people to go away and shut up, because they expressed heresy to the doctrines of the self-proclaimed progressive elite. Clinton supporter? - we don't need 'em. People who are not taking sides in the candidate wars? - we don't need them, either. I have even seen Obama supporters who were insufficiently zealous attacked. This drive toward purging and silencing, and the self-righteousness and arrogance, only works here because it is being used against friends and allies. Once we get out into the general and are talking to the public, most people will not tolerate this and that could lead to a serious failure for the party.

[Neshanic]

29. Thanks. That needed to be said.

[Zachstar]

30. Progressives do not consider the nuke option.

[BlooInBloo]

34. Nor support obliterating men, women, and children. Nor cite the National Review approvingly....

... nor, nor, nor.

[Terran]

33. Progressives don't support war. n/t

[Clintonista2]

36. Is John Kerry a progressive? How about John Edwards?

Guess not, since they voted for war.

[Terran]

72. No, I don't think they are.

A real Progresive is far to the left of almost everyone in Congress. Dennis Kucinich is probably the only elected person I can think of who is. Sorry to screw up your snappy comeback.

[karynnj]

106. This is exactly what the op speaks against

you are defining the word, progressive, in so narrow a way that you are defining an entity that is so marginal it will have no impact. T+I agree with Kerry's debate comment on labels - they are really meaningless and attempt to pidgeon hole people. the fact of the matter is that John Kerry is not nor ever has been a person who favors war other than as a last resort. He has said repeatedly that his vote was wrong - he though is consistent in having said he voted to get inspectors in and to give Bush leverage in the diplomacy. When it was clear that Bush was not doing what he said - and remember Bush said before the vote that it did not mean war and the war was 5 months later - Kerry did speak out.

That is also not the only issue, both Kerry 2004 and Edwards only in 2008 were progressive on healthcare and other issues. Kerry has and had the strongest record on the environment in all of the Senate. (I know that Kuchinich is for single payer - and he, you and I know he can't pass it. Kerry's concept to have re-insurance for catastrophic costs could potentially pass and might be a backdoor way to single payer.)

The fact that you rule out Kennedy, Harkin, Brown and others said more of you than of them. They want to accomplish something - doing nothing to stay pure helps no one.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

117. They Are. You Don't Think So Because You Have An Inaccurate And Extremist View On What A

progressive is.

Zealot.

[New Dawn]

35. Progressives do not vote to illegally invade Third World countries

Clinton did. Clinton also voted to allow Bush to attack Iran as well. She is not "progressive" in any sense. She is a Neocon like John McCain.

[Clintonista2]

37. Is John Edwards a progressive? How about John Kerry?

Both voted like Hillary did.

[leftynyc]

59. I notice they have no answer for you on that

You've exposed them brilliantly. Congrats.

[Terran]

73. LOL, see above

not so brilliant, you see.

[leftynyc]

82. He/She exposed hypocrisy brilliantly

Should have been more clear and I agree that the only true progressive is probably Russ Feingold.

[Terran]

94. Who is saying that John Kerry and John Edwards

are Progressives? Where is this "hypocrisy" you speak of?

[leftynyc]

95. It's much larger than this thread

Hillary has been pilloried on this site 24/7 for her IWR vote - she's been called a republican, a monster really and nobody seems to want to discuss the fact that two practically worshipped senators voted the same exact way - that hypocrisy. I also don't know where you can claim that you, alone, can decide who is and who isn't a progressive. I have my definition and would have no problem with someone disagreeing. You seem to have a very closed mind on this. YOu don't get to decide how to define people - even if I pretty much agree with you.

[tabasco]

75. No, they're not.

i thought the thread was about Hillary.

[earth mom]

51. Don't forget-Obama voted to continue to fund the War. His hands have blood on them too. nt

[rodeodance]

84. Obama has blood on his hands for FUNDING the war.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

105. Obviously They Do. Get Over It.

Progressive does not mean not voting to go to war ever. It also does not mean that you are never allowed to have an error in judgment or make a mistake.

Zealot.

[Armstead]

38. I prefer the term liberal

Progressive has no meaning anymore. It is equally claimed by conservatives and those on the left.

In my own view, a true progressive does not believe that corporations should be given free rein, and that markets are not the only things to measure value by.

A true progressive does not sit by and allow -- or condone -- such right-wing behavior as endless mergers into corporate giants, foolish memes like "getting your wages cut is good for you," or "monopolies are necessary to preserve competition" etc.

Forgive me if this sounds narrow-minded or self-righteous but....Being 56 years old, I have seen basic liberal and progressives abandoned and thrown out to the wolves by a brand of Democrat that has forgotten what the values and importance of liberalism and progressive populism really.

And that pisses me off. All I really want is a restoration some some balance between the values of business and the rest of society. Is that too much to ask? It seems that way, listening to some democrats.

[Clintonista2]

39. K&R.

[lwcon]

40. I'm supporting HRC because she's more progressive than BO

He throws progressives under the bus at every turn. "Chablis-drinking limousine liberals" last week, in the same appearance when he gave Repubs credit for having better ideas on the environment. Can you fucking believe that!? And he's done it over and over again, whether it's complaining that Democrats aren't religious enough or that bickering partisans in the 60s and 90s are a big part of our problems.


___

The Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy, now at my new home: Correntewire.com

[earth mom]

52. Obama wants to let corporations "regulate themselves" in regards to the environment!

I have NO doubt that Obama is more rethuglican than progressive. Hell, he even thinks highly of Reagan! :puke:

[quiet.american]

42. Perhaps her "good twin" is progressive, but the bad twin vis a vis, "Campaign Hillary" isn't.

And it's a damn shame.

It was hard not to see where she was going to take her campaign when early on, she welcomed a fundraiser hosted for her by Rupert Murdoch... it was all downhill from there.... and it's a damn shame.

[Triana]

43. Progressives don't climb into political bed with Richard Mellon Scaife...

...and use Karl Rove's playbook (and WORSE) to "win" an election against a Democrat. Progressives don't race-bait.

[rodeodance]

83. you are jealous. Hillary is not afraid to take on bullies like Scaife and O'Lielly--what does Obama

do?--he gets softball questions by Wallace. now he says he will consider
going on OLielly after the primaries.
yet, Obama CRAWLS to Fox news when he is in trouble with Wright to get his message out.

what a sorry wimp he is.

[Bluenorthwest]

89. I agree

But Progressives also don't climb into bed with Donnie McClurkin and Kirbyjon Caldwell and use Karl Rove's playbook to 'win' an election by baiting hooks for bigots with minorities the bigots don't like. Progressives don't gay bait. They don't use religion as a wedge issue. They don't hire the same guy who sang to Bush with teary eyes at GOP Convention 2004 to come out a preach against a loyal Democratic voter base.
There is a pair of non Progressive shoes in this contest, one sized for him and another for her.

[David Zephyr]

44. Hillary's vote to make war against a nation that never hurt us was not progressive. It was evil.

One million innocent Iraqi children, men and women are dead because of that invasion.

Nothing was "progressive" about that vote.

Her callous support of her husband's so-called "welfare reform" was reactionary and hurt the poorest and most vulnerable citizens: women and children.

She's a Democrat, but not progressive. She's a corporatist, just like her husband. And there's nothing "progressive" about that.

Your OP was filled with the F word and insults to many of us here at the DU. You should try to learn to use better language to express your sentiments. Experiment with other words. You can do it. I'm pulling for you.

"F this and F that" seems to be the hallmark of your posts of late. Not a cheery sort you are of late. Here's hoping you find your better self.

[grasswire]

45. OMC, remember that some are here to split the Party.

Some here are agitators from the left -- the same people who worked to split the party in 2000. DU is definitely under attack by these provocateurs. I think I even see one in this thread. They never will say who they voted for in 2000.

[OzarkDem]

46. Probably Nader

and yes, I see a lot of that too. A lot of hate for the Democratic party in general.

[Justitia]

47. Sorry, HRC is NO Progressive, and she never was. Neither was her husband.

Progressive is a subset of liberal. All progressives are liberal, not all liberals are progressive.

I don't really consider them very liberal, either. Clinton policies are historically conservative both socially and fiscally. Certainly not rightwing conservative, but conservative all the same.

Don't forget, that as an adult, HRC was a Goldwater Republican and President of the Young Republicans.

I think that kind of conservatism is still in her blood.

And by the way, Progressives don't swagger around threatening to "obliterate" entire countries, vote to invade the powerless ones, equivocate on torture, or give the okay to using cluster bombs against civilian populations.

Sorry, but to claim HRC as a "technical Progressive" is more than laughable.

[FrenchieCat]

53. Take the term than. I don't want it. Since Progressive in Hillaryland means

setting race relations back 20 years in order to get herself ahead.

In 1984 Orwell DoubleSpeak

Progressive = Regressive.


Keep the word, and the party too. I really don't want to be any part of it.

[Lannigan]

87. Hillary has set race relations back 20 years? HAHAHA - NT

[xmas74]

92. Since when?

I really don't understand how Hillary has set back race relations.

What I see is a media who has used race relations as a Nielson number. I see a media who has spoonfed us lines about race in this primary.

Is she racist? More than likely the answer is no. Is he sexist? Probably not. Does the media enjoy the ratings that they've received this primary season? That's an enthusiastic yes on their behalf.

I like Senator Clinton, you like Senator Obama. We both like different people and that's ok since, as far as I know, we both have the same goals and dreams for our children. We both want who we think is the best candidate and, if that fails, we'll vote for the better of the two left in the GE.

[judaspriestess]

118. la gatafrancais

needs to stick to humping on her obama blow up doll.

[redsoxrudy]

55. Are you kidding?

Since when do "progressives" hold leadership positions in the DLC?

[NashVegas]

56. Fuck That - I'm a Liberal

And will never run away from that.

[newmajority]

80. Liberals don't vote for the DLC

:hippie:

[HereSince1628]

60. Just asking here, who gets to decide what progressive means?

[Sparkly]

61. If it replaces "leftist," I'll take it.

I can't stand how that's thrown around to mean anything anybody wants it to mean. (I was once told here that it means whatever people FEEL it means. It's all about feelings, ya see.)

Whatever "progressive" is or isn't, Clinton and Obama are pretty much the same, as I see it -- if anything, she's more progressive/liberal/left because of that dreaded "mandate" in her health care proposal, which is actually an important step toward single-payer, "socialist" national health care.

[highplainsdem]

62. Thanks for posting this, OMC!

[SaveOurDemocracy]

63. A lot of self-proclaimed gatekeepers. K&R

[DemExpat]

64. K and R!

:yourock:

DemEx

[ekwhite]

65. From Wikipedia

Progressivism historically advocates the advancement of workers' rights and social justice. The progressives were early proponents of anti-trust laws, regulation of large corporations and monopolies, as well as government-funded environmentalism and the creation of National Parks and Wildlife Refuges.

How has Hillary Clinton avocated the advancement of worker's rights and social justice? How has Hillary Clinton worked towards regulation of large corporations and monopolies? What has she done for environmentalism, National Parks, and Wildlife Refuges? Give us facts, not assertions.

[TheZug]

69. YOU HAVE CONVINCED ME WITH YOUR UNASSAILABLE ARGUMENT:

Your post is a true gem of rhetorical persuasion! Before I had held up MLK's "Letter From Birmingham Jail" as an exemplar, but now that essay, however powerful, must fall behind yours.

"Here's a fucking fact for ya," "Yes, she is," "you don't know what the fuck you're talking about," "deal with it"--I have been turning over and over these intricately constructed arguments in my mind, and they are rock solid. To spend such time defining your times and providing evidence for your assertions--astonishing! The finest rhetoricians, from Socrates onward, could only resort to weeping and begging for mercy in the face of your mighty expostulations. And such persuasive language as well! So subtle, and yet so convincing!

My hat is off to you! Grant us another lesson, oh Master, so that we may learn!

[tabasco]

76. "You're a zealot if you don't agree with me!"

LOL.

[madrchsod]

86. thank you for saving me from actually reading the whole thing

kinda like cliff notes for those who wish to keep their sanity...you're a braver person than i...

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

109. Oh Don't Worry, I Didn't Set Out To Convince You.

See, if zealots were so easily able to be swayed from their extremism, they wouldn't be zealots. :hi:

[mudesi]

123. POST THIS AS A THREAD

Title it: "Retort to another OPERATIONMINDCRIME troll thread".

[stevietheman]

70. Hillary is Republican Lite on trade and foreign policy issues.

This is obvious to anyone following politics. But, sure, she trends progressive on other issues.

[Butch350]

74. Who Cares!

[Maribelle]

79. Well, by posting in the thread we can all see you care

even if you only care about trashing it - you've still shown you care

[Butch350]

77. Go Play with your Hillary Action Figure Dolls !!

[Maribelle]

78. He can't. Obama took them all.

[golddigger]

96. Lmao...nt

:rofl:

[Lucky 13]

81. Ok fine. Hillary = Progressive. We really mean Hillary = BAD PERSON

When people say "she isn't progressive" what they are trying to say, in a nicer way, is: She is an awful human being. Not necessarily because of policy, but because of character and tactics.

Her tactics in this campaign have been horrendous. They are gutter politics taken right from Rove's playbook. She has slandered, distorted, twisted, and spun her way to where she is now. She panders openly. She will say and do anything, at any cost, to get elected. She lies openly. She admits to lying openly. In the debate she said that she said things "she knew not to be the truth" and was embarrassed - probably more that she got caught than ashamed that she lied.

She signed a pledge in September 2007 saying that she would not campaign in MI and FL. Made statements to the press acknowledging how they would not count. Then, only after it is shown to be to her advantage, she is throwing a fit to get them seated AS IS, despite the fact that Obama's name was not on the Michigan ballot. He removed it at the party's request. It's not fair. And EVERYONE knows it.

She has built up the Republican nominee in the same breath that she tears down the Democratic frontrunner. Her surrogates have SLANDERED anyone who's allegiance has moved from Hillary to Obama. Evan Bayh has been intimidating Superdelegates and those running for office. He tells them to stay out of it and not get "cross ways" with any of the candidates - even though he openly supports Hillary.

She and the campaign have ridiculed her opponents supporters, democratic activists, and VOTERS in general - the same people you are TRYING to woo to your campaign. VOTERS have been called Prius driving, Birkenstock wearing, brainwashed, kool-aid drinking, naive, immature, latte drinking, elitist, SHEEPLE. Is this the best strategy you could come up with? INSULT the people you are trying to get to VOTE for you?

She has and continues to use her campaign and surrogates to threaten the party and party leaders. They've threatened to withhold funding for the DCCC - a brilliant strategy considering you are essentially threatening to withhold funding for Superdelegates. Her thugs have threatened Dean. There has been talk of "blood on the convention floor". Her campaign won't deny that she is considering the "nuclear" option. All behavior that actively demonstrates that she has her own ambitions ahead of the good of the party and the nation.

And then there's the robocalls to black voters in North Carolina giving them the incorrect polling information. Her campaign manager is on their board. The staff donates heavily to Clinton. These calls were also placed in previous primaries, like in Virginia, they were told to stop and the campaign was made aware. The calls continued.

And then there's the PANDERING. Voting for the Iraq war authorization: PANDERING. Saying she did not regret her vote as late as 2004: PANDERING. Gas tax holiday that 200 economists think is a STUPID idea: PANDERING. Saying she would "obliterate" Iran: Jesus Christ, I HOPE it's pandering.

No. I suppose no one owns the term "progressive". But you are missing the larger point. People are morally OUTRAGED at her behavior. MANY people who consider themselves "progressive" do not want to be associated with her any further and have criticised her and her tactics. LOTS of people. Not just party officials. Not just Dean and Pelosi. Not just KO, Stewart, Colbert, and all the other "news" guys we ALL used to regard as progressive. Not just superdelegates. Not just former friends and collegues of the Clintons. Not just black voters. Not just the international community (with her threats to Iran). But MANY people from all across the spectrum... MANY people whose vote she is, in theory, attempting to earn.

Hillary and her supporters' obvious DENIAL about how MANY MANY MANY people feel about her negativity is IGNORANT, STUPID, and ultimately to your detriment and your detriment alone. Instead of hearing negative feedback and switching your strategy, you just turned the volume up! Your inability to accept criticisms from across the political and public spectrums is self-defeating and arrogant. It's your M.O. and it's going to come back and bite you in the ass.

[AlphaCentauri]

88. can we define progressive and democrat?

[blindpig]

91. You've made your point

The term is meaningless.

[PassingFair]

97. If your representative is a DLC member, or a Blue Dog or a "New Democrat"...

they are PROBABLY NOT a Progressive.

Best indicators....

[yodermon]

99. Hillary has a very Progressive Senate Voting Record.

With the notable exception of the IWR.
So, if her voting record is the sole measure of candidacy, and the rest of her statements & rhetoric & tactics are ignored, then you have a point.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

110. That's Right, She Does.

Thank you for seeing the forest for the trees. :)

[shayes51]

101. Some people also think they own the Democratic Party.

Because I support Hillary, I have been told to get the F out of the Democratic Party or that I am a Republican. Sad that supporting one Democrat over another gives some people the idea that they can dismiss others. Thanks for your post, and I hope you don't get too many insults!

[rodeodance]

104. same here.

[dionysus]

102. Oh Thank God Another Blowhard Rant From The Smartest Guy In The Universe To Tell Us How It Really Is

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

114. Well Someone's Got To Do It From Time To Time.

Not my fault that I have the ability to view things accurately as opposed to some of the knee jerk dumbass completely warped and inaccurate positions some hold.

[cali]

107. clearly you don't know what a progressive is. Neither Hillary or Obama

is one. But you're right about people throwing the term around in silly ways.

[Why Syzygy]

111. Yeah, the DLC is progressive alright. They want to change directions FOR SURE.

[Political Heretic]

112. Honestly, "Progressive" used to actually have a specific definition

But these days.. it means basically whatever anyone wants it to mean.

I'd like to know how you define progressive and how that relates to Hillary Clinton.

(For the record, but my understanding of progressive, Obama isn't a progressive either)

[proud2BlibKansan]

113. How do you figure Hillary is a progressive?

What progressive legislation has she sponsored?

[Marrah_G]

116. It's okay OMC

Just sit back and watch the heads explode when they find out Obama is not "the one" they thought he was.

The higher the pedestal the harder the fall.

Much like after the 2004 or 2006 election I fully expect that one of 2 things will happen.

A) He will lose to the RW machine that makes Clinton look like a kitten and many will go on drinking binges. (I know I did after the Kerry concession speech)

B) He will win, get into the White House and folks will find he isn't going to do all the amazing and wonderful things they were convinced he would do and they will turn on him like rabid dogs.

[TZ]

120. Very good

I cannot argue with a single point in your post. Very insightful..therefore got your flame proof suit out?;-)
K+R

[mudesi]

121. Hillary is a Republican

Deal with it.

[TZ]

126. Oh yes

HRC is pro-life anti-stem cell global warming denying religous fundamentalist freeper evolution denyier who thinks prayer in school is a good idea.:sarcasm:
You pretty much embody what OMC is talking about.

[whatchamacallit]

124. If a progressive is a war lovin, NAFTA lovin, corporate lobby lovin, elitist multi-millionaire

Then she's a progressive.

[DaDooRonRon]

132. Just a quick question here

What makes you think the alternative (Obama) is? Is it because he gives great speech? Surely it can't be the number of corporate advisers he has on his staff, or the number of lobbyists who (back-door) fund his campaign, or the fact that Obama is #3 on the list re: Exxon/Mobil's political candidate contribution list?

I find it amusing that one side thinks that their shit doesn't stink as they sit in a pile of manure with a clothespin over their nose.

disclaimer: I support neither candidate in this race, as I find them both to be fake leftists to the highest degree.

[goletian]

127. a progressive is someone afraid of calling themselves a liberal

because they buy into right wing bs.

[DaDooRonRon]

128. Oh please

98% of folks on this website wouldn't know a true progressive viewpoint if it bit them in the ass. If they did, they would run not walk away from conventional bought and paid for politicians and realize that snake oil doesn't cure anything.

Oh, and judging by this absurd comment -

"Here's a fucking fact for ya: Hillary Clinton is technically a Progressive. Yes, she is. If you don't think she is, if you put your nose in the air and claim "Hillary is NOT a progressive! Not by a longshot! How can you say that!" then you simply don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Hillary is a progressive. Deal with it. Educate yourself on what being a progressive actually is. K? Thanks."

you don't either.

Thanks for the (I'm sure) unintentional chuckle.

[K Gardner]

129. Your candidate has betrayed you AND the party. You sound bitter.. sorry.

[Lisa0825]

130. D. L. C.

not progressive.

Sorry, but that's the facts. DLC never has been and never will be the progressive wing in the party, by the way they defined themselves.

[DawgHouse]

131. True, OMC.