What is up with Harold Ford from Tenn.?

[PhuLoi]

I listened to him this morning on C-SPAN, speaking at the Dem. Nat. Convention. He stated that he "had no problem with outsourcing", that if he were a corporation and had a choice of hiring a cheaper outsource or an American employee, that he would hire the outsource. He stated that he is "business friendly." WTF?

He went on to say that it was a matter of Americans being less educated, poorer trained and generally lacking in the skills required to compete in the world market. This is his meaning, at least, that I came away with.

It would appear to me that Mr. Ford is someone who favors the WTO, NAFTA and right-wing schemes of that ilk. Am I mistaken? Deluded? Freaked out minds (my wife's and mine) want to know.

[dennis4868]

1. What is up with....

Rep. Ford when he says Bush did not lie about Iraq....what is up with the dem leadership in congress?

[Capn Sunshine]

2. He's the face of the DLC today

Remember, profits above all else.

Sometimes I wonder why I'm still a member

[Feanorcurufinwe]

3. What is up with the paraphrasing and highly selective quoting?

What did he actually say?


My guess is that you have misrepresented and mischaracterized his words.

[PhuLoi]

6. Seeking a reasoned explanation for what would appear to be

an otherwise antithetical statement for a Democrat to make at such a venue as the Dem. Nat. Convention. My citing of specific statements indicates the point at which my head exploded, causing my cat to loose continence.

That you would "guess" that I would deliberately "misrepresent and mischaractorize" his words does nothing to inform me or assuage my unemployed outrage. Further, it has once again caused my gentle cat to soil her fur.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

7. The fact is, I know who Harold Ford is, and I find him to be a credible

public figure. Whether I agree with him on any particular issue is a separate question.

You on the other hand, are an anonymous poster on a message board. Since I have never read any post of yours before, you start out with zero credibility - it is up to you to earn it.

Therefore when you level an attack on him, and all you cite is your own paraphrase and a supposed quote of a few words, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the person who already has some credibility, rather than to the person who has none.


Note, I never accused you of 'deliberately' misrepresenting or mischaracterizing. So, in leveling this false charge at me, you have taken your original credibility of zero, and lowered it, to less than zero.

[PhuLoi]

8. My apology for the errant "deliberately" term. Your initial

response had arrived while I was still in the throes of disbelief. That your response was wholly unhelpful only lent to my initial problem. My "credibility" notwithstanding, my question is a real request for understanding from someone who would have heard his speech and have some knowledge of Mr. Harrold (not Howard)Ford.

As to that which I must earn... I have low tolerance for vapid rhetoric or specious justifications for what I perceive to be unwarranted ad hominum attacks. My responses tend toward the Cheneyesque. Please take this to be one.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

10. So now that we have undeniable evidence that you are less than reliable

when you make a characterization, I reiterate, that I would like to read Ford's actual words, and my guess that you have mischaracterized and misrepresented has more foundation now than originally.

[Joe Fields]

9. I can see you know him so well, you don't even know his name.

[leyton]

14. What is up with I actually watched the speech, and Ford did a good job.

Ford showed that he was objective, that he understood that while Bush has not done a good job by any measure but that Bush is probably not guilty of the crimes the people on this board (some of whom lose sight of reality...) accuse him (MIHOP, LIHOP, etc.). He showed that he was beholden to no party, that he understands that not all evil stems from Republicans, that he doesn't see the need to take into account only the evidence that supports the arguments of the most vehement of Bush's critics.

People here expect Democrats to fall squarely in the liberal side of the spectrum. Guess what: there are people who are not as liberal as you, who do not hate Bush as much as you, and who still think Democrats will do a better job governing. But God forbid he be less than radical...

[MattNC]

18. Amen fellow Tar Heel n/t

[earthside]

4. Turn Him Off

Whenever Harold Ford turns up allegedly speaking for Democrats, I turn the TV off or change the channel. He is a waste of time.

If you want an explanation for why Democrats have trouble in the south ... Harold Ford is the shining example. Don't stand for anything, make folks think you are pretty much like a Republican.

Really, I think is is afraid of his own party affiliation, afraid that a Republican will call him "unpatriotic", afraid that someone will say he's not strong enough for capitalism, afraid, afraid, afraid ...

Although he is a Kerry co-chair, I sure hope no one in the campaign is listening to him - he strikes me as a "Lieberman Democrat'", in otherwords, a 'Loserman".

[Gin]

5. I listened to him...found him interesting...heard what he said about

outsourcing and vouchers....

I think hes wrong about the outsourcing...and I think we will not be able to stop that...but... we should take away tax advantages to American corporations who do it. Next we will all need PH D's to do all jobs. That's ludicrous.

Vouchers hurt the public schools..(IMHO).his point was..let's look at all programs and see if they work...and if we can improve them..

No child left behind was another thing he approved of...he at least wants to see if it may be good... if we fund it..

I wondered how he was thought of in his home state. He wasn't a turn off to me...it sounded like he was trying to take the middle road and give some of the thugs ideas a chance....in this time of heated dialogue...maybe it's a good idea.

[formernaderite]

11. Harold Ford is a conservative democrat....

...he's being groomed for the future to appeal to the moderates in the nation. I wouldn't vote for him, but so far I haven't been given the opportunity to.

[dolstein]

12. . . . with a pretty liberal voting record

Harold Ford is a member of the Blue Dog coalition, which is a group fo moderate to conservative Democrats in the House, but if you actually look at his voting record, he falls more towards the liberal end of the scale.

Harold Ford is also from Tennessee, and plans to run for the Senate in a few years. So anyone who expects Harold Ford to talk like a raving liberal is clearly a few steps removed from reality.

All things considered, I'd much rather have a Democrat who is perceived as being much more moderate than he really is than one who is perceved as being much more liberal than he really is. They may vote the same way, but the former usually has a much easier time winning elections.

[PhuLoi]

13. Thank you for the information, that is the reason for my post.

For preference I should like to see more raving liberals. My reality has become a hell designed by republicans and built by the Zell Millers and Joe Liebermans.

[AntiCoup2K4]

15. Just another DLC sellout

And this one's a Moonie too.

[groton]

16. i always like Rep. Ford

AntiCoup and the gain that is so Anti DLC
do u think President Clinton was a DLC Sellout or About Al Gore.

the DLC is more Moderate then the Chunk of us Democrats but at the same time there democrats.

I support the DLC i my self fall somewhat to the left of the mainstream DLC members but i do have some Belief's that fall in line with the DLC.

[hayu_lol]

17. Ford is...

definitely a Blue Dog, definitely a DINO, and probably ought to change parties.

[dolstein]

19. Well, one out of three ain't bad -- but it ain't good either

Ford is a member of the Blue Dog coalition. But he has a moderate to liberal voting record by any measure, and he's downright liberal by Tennessee standards.

It's pretty sad that some DU'ers won't be satisfied until the vast majority of Americans are excluded from the Democratic Party. Seriously, if you want a party that can only attract 3% of the vote in a general election, you might as well vote for Nader.

[lanparty]

20. I was overjoyed by Bill Clinton's speach last night ....

The Big Dog had LOTS of language dealing with class warfare. And it's time that the Democrats realized that they were the dominant party in Congress for 50 years because THEY REPRESENTED THE LITTLE GUY!!!!!

Yeah, education is good and all. But without jobs, computer science and electrical engineering degress have become no different than your average liberal arts degree. It's reafirming and great that you have one, but it won't get you a great job.

The truth is that global competition is being waged in terms of how easily people are exploited. My ability to write code really doesn't factor in when the guy in Bangalore or Shanghai will write code for 1/4 as much as I can.

Maybe Harold Ford should just join Zell Miller. The Democrats are better off without these types.


BTW, most of us here now no that free trade is a big lie. It's neo-con shit wrapped up in a tortilla of liberal humanist rhetoric. The MOST LIBERAL man in Congress doesn't support NAFTA and WTO even though he is the most ardent supporter of bringing up living standards overseas. DENNIS KUCINICH the uber-liberal KNOWS that NAFTA and WTO help neither American nor foreign workers. Once you bite into that fresh smelling liberal tortilla, you get a mouth full of neo-con horse shit.

[PhuLoi]

21. I'm in total agreement with you.

I don't want the Democratic party to abandon the working class in order to lure moderate republicans. The sort of people who would even consider assocciating with the right-wing are led by their own self interest (or fear.) The moderate repubs will not vote for Bush this year because of their own self interest. Those of draft age will fear the draft while those who live for money can see the folly of the "Deficits don't matter" lie that the richest 1% are propounding. The moderate repubs either fucked up their party through their own actions or by their inaction. They will vote for Kerry this time around because they know now what is at stake, their own wretched self interest. Lose the DLC.