Democrats stifle free speech on convention floor

[no name no slogan]

There was a Reuters wire item today that said that the DNC floor police were confiscating some delegates' homemade signs and other items that promoted peace.

The wire story said that only "pre-printed" signs were being allowed onto the floor, which pretty much narrows it down to Kerry signs only at this point, as no other ex-candidates are spending $$ on campaign materials anymore. I didn't put much stock into it until I heard today's broadcast of Amy Goodman's Democracy Now.

At 16:45 into the first hour of the show, Amy interviews two Kucinich delegates from MN, Charles Underwood and Donna Cassutt. I have personally known both Charley and Donna since last summer, when I first got involved in the campaign.

They both reported that representatives from the Kerry campaign confiscated their home-made pro-peace signs from them, as well as pro-peace scarfs they were wearing on the floor.

Needless to say, both were rightfully disappointed that this is the way that dissent was handled by the DNC. Apparently the Democratic Party, the party of civil liberties, thinks free speech is okay, if it's within a mini version of Gitmo outside the convention, but not so among delegates who are encouraging the party to take a stronger pro-peace stance.

This is doubly ironic, considering that 85% of Democrats AND 50% of Americans oppose the Iraq war.

Note to the DNC: this is NOT how you win over new party activists, or those who care about debate, dissent, and free speech.
This is doubly ironic

[Longhorn]

1. Well, they're not doing a very good job of it, if that's true.

I've seen handmade signs all over the place!

[jeff30997]

2. I find that troubling to say the least.

[dolstein]

3. Frankly, I couldn't care less

Sounds like a few Kucinich supporters who were shocked -- SHOCKED!! - to discover that this convention is about promoting the candidacy of John Kerry, not about masturbating on the altar of free expression.

Welcome to the real world.

[TeacherCreature]

13. it's too bad that conventions have become nothing but a big campaign

commercial. I think we should stop having them if that is they case.

[PVnRT]

16. Yeah, all that free coverage

is just awful. Awful, I say!

[no name no slogan]

46. That whole one hour nobody's watching (N/T)

[flaminbats]

17. sounds like some Kerry people like kicking them in the face..

Actually this convention isn't just here to promote Kerry over Kucinich, it's here to nominate Kerry while promoting the principles and candidates of the Democratic Party.

[Zidane]

25. Hmmm...

Sooo.... Kucinich delegates, pledged to Kucinich, who were elected by the people of their state to do so, are not supposed to show support for Kucinich or the goals of that campaign they were sent to the convention to represent?

This is like saying the dems in congress are sent to congress to promote the values of the majority repub party.

I think you need to read about how convention are (supposed) to work.

[w4rma]

30. I think the person who did this was a Green Party supporter. (nt)

[no name no slogan]

32. I think not-- and I KNOW the two people in the linked interview

I am NOT a Green Party supporter, nor is Charley Underwood OR Donna Cassutt, the two people in the Democracy Now interview. In fact, Donna is a new member of the MN DFL Board of Directors, a good friend, AND a tireless campaigner for Democrats at all levels.

Same goes with Charley. He is a loyal Democrat, a churchgoing Quaker, a public school teacher, loyal union member and an advocate of peace and justice. I've not known Charley as long as Donna, but I've had many good conversations with him, have been to his home and met his family, and even sold him one of my guitars (for below market price, I might add).

And as for my own credentials.....how much time do you have?

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

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[no name no slogan]

44. Check further down....

You'll see that I'm still looking for the Reuters link. It was on the front page of the web edition of www.startribune.com yesterday. I will publish the link as soon as I find it.

However, you still cannot deny that the enforcers have been a little over-zealous with their dissent stifling tactics.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

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[LoZoccolo]

4. Rock on.

That'll keep Republican infiltrators from trying to divide & conquer the Democratic party with their signs.

[LoZoccolo]

5. Or...

...putting fucked-up things on them to try to make us look bad on TV.

[Zidane]

26. Give me a break

You are telling me some delegates are republican infiltrators? You mean after they were elected at the precint level, AGAIN at the senate level, and AGAIN at the state level - AND were reviewed and checked by the Kerry campaign. Never mind the fact the VAST majority of delegates at the national convention are long time party activists. (we are talking years - even decades with some people)

That's some nice infiltration. They should send a resume to the CIA as they do a damn good job apparently.

[no name no slogan]

33. Yeah, "fucked up" things like "PEACE NOW", or "KUCINICH = COURAGE", or

"Give Bush the Pink Slip" (the actual words on a kerchief confiscated by the unofficial "floor police").

Yup, you gotta be pretty fucked up to put THAT on a sign. :eyes:

[Name removed]

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[TeacherCreature]

12. This is Kerrys party?

NO, it is the party of anyone who is registered as a democrat.

[cprise]

15. Wesley Clark, is that you?

Your mama's been lookin for you all day.

[donco6]

7. This is the DEMOCRATIC convention,

not the anti-war convention. When you get off your butts and organize one, and get hundreds of people to come, and check into hotel rooms, and secure meeting space, THEN you can hold whatever signs you want.

Jeez. What a bunch of whiners.

[TeacherCreature]

14. most of the party is anti-war

[donco6]

18. What makes you think that? eom

[PVnRT]

21. Not anti-war

in the sense that war protestors are anti-war, but many in the party are questioning are motives behind going to Iraq in the first place and are getting more and more critical about Bush's lies to get us there.

[donco6]

23. No question there, and rightly so.

But there's a pretty big gap between that and being "anti-war" - whatever that means.

[no name no slogan]

34. Most recent surveys, and even the party admits it themselves

Currently, over 80% of those at the convention oppose the war. Not to mention only 46% of Americans in general favor Bush's current handling of it.

What next, no more "Keep Abortion Safe And Legal" signs and no more rainbow flags because this isn't a "Pro-Choice" or GLBT convention?

Your pretzel logic astounds me.

[Zidane]

27. The delegates

are the ones who decide what the party stands for. That's why they approve, write, and review the platform. The minority gets a voice.

In fact - courts have ruled that conventions are carrying out the business of the state/country. (when they ruled conventions could not be one race only, as was done in the past, under the argument it was a private party event)

That's why ALL eligible voters who identify with a party can vote in that partys primary.

Anyway - ALL delegates should have a voice - rather they are a minority or not.

[Senior citizen]

8. Peace now! But.....

I've never been in a war. I've never risked my life under enemy fire to rescue a fallen comrade. I've never returned from a war and gone to Congress to protest the war I'd just fought in.

John Kerry has done all of that. I want our troops out now, but when it comes to war, Kerry simply knows more than I do, and I have to defer to him.

One thing I can say, is that Kerry has a life-long record of fighting to do what's right, and he isn't about to stop now. If there's a way out, he'll find it and save as many lives as possible.

AWOL* the friend of terrorists and war profiteers got us into this--Kerry, who investigated U.S. government drug smuggling during Iran-Contra, knows who the villains are and will get us out. All we have to do is get him in.

And if he doesn't tell the GOP his plans, it makes it harder for them to sabotage 'em. Unity is a funny thing--when I came to DU I was green in more than one sense of the word. DU has been teaching me to put my brain in gear before I open my mouth, and to do a little research before I jump to conclusions. It isn't easy for an old dog to learn new tricks, but it sure is interesting.

[no name no slogan]

53. But that's how Vietnam became a quagmire

the common people deferred to "those that know better". Unfortunately, "those that know better" were busy creating fake body counts and fake troop movements to justify the continuing war.

Just because somebody is in a position of power does not necessarily mean they "know better". After all, 20 million people all over the planet KNEW that invading Iraq was wrong, yet somehow most US Senators and Representatives didn't?

That just plain doesn't make sense.

[hellhathnofury]

9. I'm guessing that's the policy....

because a sea indiviudal home made signs doesn't look to good on television.

[demwing]

10. Wow, I'm looking at scores of home made signs right this moment

Maybe someone has it wrong. I'll give them the benefit of my doubt and say its an oversight.

[no name no slogan]

35. But NO candidate signes besides Kerry/Edwards

Because all the other campaigns are basically broke, they don't have PRE-PRINTED campaign signs left-- or only a few.

Besides, the Kucinich campaign was mostly grassroots wherever it existed, and most of our signs were hand-made, anyway. Or, we made a design and had it printed locally, because nat'l had other business to attend to.

I would hardly call it an "oversight" when the signs of the other, non-endorsed (as of yet) candidates are DELIBERATELY EXCLUDED from the floor.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

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[tandt5044]

70. Why are there deleted messages ???

There are so many in this thread ......

[Feanorcurufinwe]

63. That is a false statement. I saw Sharpton signs, Kucinich signs -

why are you making these false and divisive posts?

[no name no slogan]

67. Why are you so quick to spread a meme?

I was talking about MONDAY, not Tuesday or Wednesday. It looks different now, but it wasn't the same on Monday, as has been backed up by two reputable sources.

But apparently stifling dissent and some sort of artificial "unity" is more important than the truth to you-- I don't know.

[sandnsea]

11. Already debunked yesterday

Did you not see all the pink slips? Those are the Kucinich peace stuff. There were lots of homemade signs as well. This is a load of garbage. I'm not even sure that you aren't the one that tried to run this line yesterday too.

[no name no slogan]

36. Bullshit. I KNOW both the people in the Democracy Now interview

I imagine the KerryBots probably got the order from on high to quit swiping the homemade signs of other candidates, and they changed their policy just in time for the prime-time broadcasts. GO LISTEN TO THE INTERVIEW ON DEMOCRACY NOW if you have a hard time believing me, and you'll learn that it REALLY HAPPENED, to two REAL delegates.

This was a PR disaster waiting to happen, and Kerry's people knew it, too. How would it look if the "Democratic" party was into stifling free speech on the floor of their very own convention.

BTW, those pink slips are NOT "Kucinich peace stuff". They're produced by Code Pink (www.codepink.org), a non-partisan anti-war civil liberties group.

Go look for shots from the floor taken on Monday (BEFORE the story was published), and tell me how many handmade signs you find there. THEN I might believe your curt dismissal of the events that happened.

[Name removed]

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[WilliamPitt]

65. Um...I was on the convention floor yesterday and today

and the pink scarves were all over the place.

[no name no slogan]

68. The incident happened on MONDAY

So it is quite possible they did "fix" the problem. I happen to know both Donna and Charley, and I seriously doubt they would make something like this up if it didn't happen.

What frightens me is how quick some "Democrats" are to dismiss such stories without first investigating for themselves whether they're true or not. This is no better than the Ashcroft thought policy, IMHO.

A party convention is a place to DISCUSS the issues, and exchange ideas-- it is NOT supposed to be a coronation.

[emulatorloo]

19. I watched MSNBC coverage Tues nite and there were TONS of Pink Slips

In every floor interview I saw, people were happily waving Pink Slips w anti-war message. . . .


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2079187#2079281

[NoPasaran]

20. This is a lot of nonsense

Anyone watching the convention has seen plenty of pink slips and homemade signs.

What's really ironic is that a small fringe element feels the need to fabricate these stories.

[no name no slogan]

58. Sure, a major metro daily "fabricates" stories

as do convention delegates. riiiiiiiight.

Get over it-- some Kerry "supporters" are a little too zealous when it comes to pointing out the flaws in their candidate's positions. However, it's still no reason to quash the debate.

Unless you're Karl Rove, that is. :eyes:

[SoFlaJet]

22. Ahh boobity boobity

too friggin bad-the GOP stifles dissent and even arrests protesters so this is the climate that THEY created.

[kwolf68]

24. I am

I am VERY Anti-War, yet believe these conventions are dog and pony shows. We must not allow the media to equate the Democratic Party as "a wing" of ANSWER.

We must appeal to everyone and NOT DIVIDE our nation. Because I am anti-war doesn't mean I don't want people who support the war in our party.

My only complaint is there has been very little on the virtues of peace OVER war. A couple speakers (Obama, Carter) touched on it, but I believe this convention has been too jingoistic for me, but I understand why we are doing this.

I love John Kerry's service to our nation in Vietnam. He is a true hero, an American patriot...but there is more to him than his willingness to go fight an enemy engaged in a civil war amongst themselves.

To that end, I would have liked to have heard a concrete explanation and supporting of Kerry's desire to ALSO END THAT WAR.

[Ramsey]

28. I'm skeptical that this is widespread

I was at the convention the past two nights and there were plenty of peace messages on signs, T-shirts, head wear, buttons, etc. If any confiscation as going on, I'd attribute it to sheer disorganization, something I experienced there myself, being told one thing by one official only to have it contradicted by another.

[no name no slogan]

37. But how many Kucinich signs did you see?

Particularly, to the left of the podium as you're facing the stage? That's where the MN delegation (including Charley and Donna) are seated.

The nomination is NOT final at this point. Those Kucinich delegates pledged to the people who elected them that they would support Kucinich on the first ballot.

Unless the Democratic Party has a problem with "democracy", that is.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

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[Feanorcurufinwe]

62. Hundreds of Kucinich signs were visible.

The divisive propaganda being spread in this thread is false.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

29. Is it true, or just a divisive right-wing lie?

If there really is a Rueters wire item that says that, let's see it.


My guess is that there is no such Reuters wire item at all, that your statement is actually a lie.


Especially considering that we had multiple first-hand reports from DUers at the convention yesterday debunking this.

[no name no slogan]

42. Go listen to the Democracy Now! broadcast

You'll hear from two DK delegates from MN where were ON THE FLOOR, both of whom I know personally.

Sorry I can't find the Reuters piece right now, but I'm searching, because it was on the front page of the web edition of my local paper yesterday.

BTW, did you know that Al-Jazeera's sign is ALSO being blocked by the DNC?

Here's a DIRECT QUOTE from the interview transcript:

CHARLES UNDERWOOD: I am just very disappointed that had there is no ability to express any hope for peace on the floor of this convention. We’ve had our signs confiscated, we’ve had our scarves for peace – you know – Delegate For Peace, confiscated. We’ve had people that tell us to sit down and be quiet. We’ve got no particular points for peace in the platform. This is becoming an extremely narrow democratic tent. And I’d love nothing better than to get behind a peace candidate for President. A little something, a little bone for us who want peace. And I am not getting any of that. And I am very disappointed. See these people in the lime vests? Those are the Kerry enforcers.

Sometimes you really gotta wonder what this party is about anymore.

[Name removed]

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[no name no slogan]

45. Broken record much?

Fucking hell, read the post where I said I WAS WORKING ON THE LINK.

Oh, but that's right, Kerry and the EnforcerBots in lime-green would NEVER do something like that, right?

:eyes:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

47. I just like to point out when someone is spreading falsehoods.

I read your assertion that you were 'working on the link' -- I just don't believe it.

If there were such a Reuters story, a simple search on google or yahoo would find it.

[no name no slogan]

54. I AM working on it, but I'm not a search guru

But apparently the testimony of two loyal Democrats on the floor of the convention is not good enough for you.

Maybe you'd trust the Bush White House instead? I dunno...

[no name no slogan]

56. HERE IS YOUR LINK

I appologize that it was not Reuters, but was actually a story that appeared on page A8 of the Minneapolis edition of the July 27 Star Tribune (www.startribune.com).

Here is the page:
http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/4895935.html

Scroll down after the first story ("Dayton relates Bush tales from Yale") to the one titled "Signs of the times". For brevity, I'll post the entire article text (only two paragraphs):

Many delegates learned for the first time Monday that, for security reasons, they can't bring homemade signs and banners into the FleetCenter.

That's not a problem for Kerry supporters, for whom plenty of signs will be available inside. But it could limit visibility for delegates who want to express different messages, including those who want to press the party to adopt a more progressive platform and backers of Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio.

Combine this story, along with the interview on Democracy Now! yesterday, and you've got a pretty ugly picture of the floor situation for those not willing to "fall in line" behind the Kerry message until he's the OFFICIAL nominee.

But sadly, not one that is unfamiliar to Kucinich supporters this year.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

59. So your excuse is that you were 'mistaken' and I must point out

that the story was false, and the implication was false, as we just saw plenty of Kucinich signs and peace messages hoisted by Kucinich supporters during his speech. So whatever you may wish to say, we all know the truth by the evidence of our own eyes.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

60. SO WHAT YOU SAID WAS NOT TRUE

That was my point. Thank you for confirming it. Sorry for the yelling, but you yelled at me, so I yelled back.

[no name no slogan]

66. NO, it WAS true

Look at the dateline of the story. It was talking about things that happened on MONDAY. Yes, that's MONDAY, not Tuesday or Wednesday.

So yes, it is quite possible that their signs were confiscated on Monday by a couple of floor people.

And it is also quite true that they were harrassed by other delegates who told them to shut up and sit down.

But apparently this is not enough for you. Too bad.

[Dancing_Dave]

31. Why stop Democracy for the Democratic Convention?

So that Democratic politicians become more like President Bush, isolated in their own little bubble of ideology and propaganda and unable to outside it? To enjoy some purely ficticious brand of "unity"?

That sure won't help our leaders over the long haul. We can support Kerry better by making him aware, everywhere he speaks, of what Americans are really thinking.

[MaggieSwanson]

49. Thank you for posting this.

I don't doubt it for a minute, having experienced similar situations first hand.

The state convention in Iowa, for one.

[Name removed]

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[John Q. Citizen]

51. Kucinich is addressing the convention as I type

So what's the problem?

He's not complaining about the floor police so far.

[no name no slogan]

52. Why should he? He didn't have his signs confiscated by the floor fascists

Things are better today. I actually saw the two people interviewed in the Democracy Now! story on CSPAN. Charley has his bandanas back. Although I did notice that the Kucinich signs were altered so they no longer said "President" on them. And Colorado's placards were kickass, too.

As a matter of fact, CSPAN focused a lot on the Minnesota delegation, including our "stealth" Edwards delegate (who is actually a DK supporter, but got elected as an Edwards delegate because his Congressional District didn't get a DK delegate).

They are a fine group of people who have worked very hard to not only get to Boston, but to support all the Democrats on the ticket this year.

PS Welcome to DU!

[John Q. Citizen]

55. Because, if it were a big problem

DK would fight for justice.

Glad to hear things are better.

[no name no slogan]

57. De nada.

I hear you there. Our Peace/Civil Rights/Kucinich caucus accounted for 1/3 of the delegates at the convention, yet we didn't even get MENTIONED by the party chair in his little press release blurb, although we were the most organized group on the floor.

This is also the same party chair who has said that our DK delegates will ALL vote for Kerry on the first ballot, without even BOTHERING to consult with the delegation itself.

But of course you know how this goes, unfortunately. :(

However, I did spot a good number of MNans on the floor during Dennis's speech. In fact, I saw DUers dpbrown and goodhue on CSPAN, along with the other members of the DK bloc in the MN delegation. VERY COOL!!!!

[Name removed]

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[eridani]

64. The final word on the pink scarves--

--from the Kucinich website. Apparently the 'clothing' vs. 'banner' dispute got resolved in favor of 'clothing.' There was a minor hassle around the issue, but it got straightened out.

http://kucinich.us/insideout/072804/pink.php

The hot fashion trend among Democratic National Convention delegates this year is pink, in the form of pink scarves. Not only are delegates of all stripes making a fashion statement with the scarves, they're making a political statement as well.

The scarves read "Give BUSH a pink slip!" and identify the wearer as a "DELEGATE FOR PEACE." They also say " Boston — 2004" and thus serve as a souvenir of the convention.

Calls were made to the silk screener and back through the wholesaler to the distributor, who tracked down the manufacturer. To everyone's relief, the scarves were determined to have been manufactured in a legitimate and inspected factory.

"We're still a little concerned that the supplier didn't understand the importance of sourcing their material," Bright said, "It was our mistake that we didn't make ourselves clear that source of supply was an important issue. We'll be more diligent next time?and we'll get them treated for flame retardancy."

[no name no slogan]

69. Another quote from the same source

The convention has a tight control on signs -- no sign gets in unless it's approved by the Kerry campaign and convention organizers. Some of those running the convention considered the scarves signs, not articles of clothing. As a result, people who entered the convention hall wearing their scarves entered with no difficulty, while some people carrying in scarves to give to other delegates were stopped.

Isn't it a bit frightening to think that "no sign gets in unless it's approved by the Kerry campaign and convention organizers?

:wtf:

It's bad enough that Al-Jazeera was forced to cover up their logo in the FleetCenter. But now ALL delegates have to get their signs "approved" by the Kerry campaign?

Sorry to rain on the parade, but the Democratic Party is NOT a totalitarian institution, and John Kerry was NOT the party's nominee until after the vote last night.

Yes, unity is a good thing, but AFTER the votes have been made AND counted. This type of action would be like us not even bothering with the election this year and simply letting BushCo have it, because BushCo is our current president.

How sad indeed.

Apparently, free speech is a nice concept, but not one to be practiced