Hillary Clinton is on her way..... to becoming a national joke,

[cali]

a late night punchline. As more of her SDs urge her to realistically appraise her chances or defect to Obama, Hillary loses more of her dignity. She looks desperate and out of touch. Wins in WV and KY will not save her from looking like a loser who won't admit she's lost. Sure she can stay in as long as she wants, but that only makes her more a joke. Her "fighting" spirit isn't doing her any favors. If she keeps this up her reputation will suffer irreparable damage among her colleagues in the Senate and with the public at large.

She's beginning to look straight out pathetic.

[tekisui]

1. She is embarrassing herself on the National Stage.

She made her bed, and her decisions. She could have done it a helluva lot better.

[bigtree]

2. she doesn't look that way to everyone. but, you should know that.

It's amazing how much denial there is from her rivals about the amount of support she still has among Democrats.

The 'jokes' are just another symptom of a cynical and sick segment of Americans who feel elevated by putting others down. Have fun with it.

[cali]

7. I do know that, but the longer she keeps desperately flailing

the more dignity she loses. Do you understand that quite a few of her prominent SDs are sending her PUBLIC messages about how she should comport herself? Do you realize that her hometown newspaper, The NYT, which endorsed her, published an editorial this morning, gently chiding her for how she's acting and what she's saying? Do you know that SDs are breaking heavily for Obama and she's about to lose her lead there? I don't want to see her become a late night TV joke. If she's going to stay in, she should behave with greater dignity and take greater care not to damage the party and our chances in November.

[foo_bar]

12. it was a pretty kick-ass chiding IMO

We endorsed Mrs. Clinton, and we know that she has a major contribution to make. But instead of discussing her strong ideas, Mrs. Clinton claimed in an interview with USA Today that she would be the better nominee because a recent poll showed that “Senator Obama’s support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again.” She added: “There’s a pattern emerging here.”

Yes, there is a pattern ­ a familiar and unpleasant one. It is up to Mrs. Clinton to change it if she hopes to have any shot at winning the nomination or preserving her integrity and her influence if she loses.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/09/opinion/09fri1.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Do you know that SDs are breaking heavily for Obama and she's about to lose her lead there?

BARACK OBAMA SURPASSES HILLARY CLINTON IN SUPPORT AMONG SUPERDELEGATES, ACCORDING TO ABC NEWS DELEGATE ESTIMATE
http://abcnews.go.com/politics
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5897142

[dbmk]

41. In all fairness I think ABC is stretching

Everyone else has her at +5 to +10 atm.

Pretty sure they are just trying to be first on this.

Because it will ofc happen - today or tomorrow.

[foo_bar]

43. sorry to jump the gun

I'll check back every 5 minutes. :P

[bigtree]

30. well, cali

. . . if all that is true then she'll likely be forced to stop. But, she'll be fine with those who are inclined to support her. And, if she is forced out of this race, her reputation will be managed like any other politician's would. She'll still have her Senate seat and she will not be any more disadvantaged by petty disagreements over this primary than she was when she first entered the Senate dragging all of the effects of the GOP attacks behind her.

The jokesters will do their ignorant best to get a laugh. She shouldn't give them a moment's notice. Unless, of course, they actually say something funny. Then she should enjoy a good laugh.

The entire campaign has been an open invitation to cast all sorts of aspersions on her character. Almost seventeen million voters put those aside and cast their vote for her. The national polls show that she's at least held on to that support with her popularity practically even with Obama's.

So, fire away. The jokester's nonsense defines their silly selves more than it serves to define Hillary Clinton.

[jasmine621]

33. Very well said. nt

[Usrename]

34. Do you still think she can win the WhiteHouse?

If so, how; if not, why is she doing this?

[Onyx488]

83. Nope, she is doing too much damage to the Democratic Party,

I don't care how they try to spin her comments. She has been in Hot pursuit of only "white uneducated voters" her words since PA.

I am not in the demographic,she is after, so she doesn't want my vote.
And I say no to her Being VP
She will not fit in with Barack's Administration, and SHE CAN'T BE TRUSTED,
Barack would have to wear a bullet proof vest in the shower.

Barack has demonstrated by his Campaign that he knows how to pick a winning team.

[Usrename]

84. I think Obama is choosing to go with the best and the brightest.

Hillary may be smart enough, but you're right, nobody can trust her. And if anything ever did happen to him and she had to be sworn in, nobody would ever believe that she didn't have anything to do with it, no matter what the circumstances were. She would not be able to govern.

And welcome to DU Onyx! :hi:

[Onyx488]

85. Thanks for the Welcome

Did you catch Pat Buchannon suggesting he take Hillary
Like Kenndy had to take LBJ

ummmmmm..... bad example, considering what happened to JFK.

[Usrename]

87. Exactly, it's not a pretty picture, especially if Buchanan wants it.

That makes it twice as scary, although I have to say she would make an excellent Darth Cheney.

She'd probably be much better as VP than anyone else I can think of. Really. Especially in the situation we find ourselves in.

:hide:

[Onyx488]

91. That's not what would happen, we would end up with 2 presidents just like Clinton had 2 VP's!

[Blue_Roses]

63. look, some of us would like to continue to think of Hillary Clinton

as someone we once admired. I was on the fence a long time, mainly because of my loyalty to the Clintons, even though I knew it was time for change. But I still sat on that fence, UNTIL the swipes and bullshit. I'm so SICK of people making excusing for Hillary Clinton's despicable behavior. It's like an enabler to an alcoholic. You can't seem to come to terms with the destruction that comments like the ones in USA Today are doing. People who once admired her are so turned off it's just sad.

[Dawgs]

49. Give it up cali, she's acting like a candidate.

Quit trying to create something that doesn't exist.

[Labors of Hercules]

66. That's been her major problem...

She's been acting like a candidate while Obama's been acting like a president.

And the SD's are finally telling her to stop.

[Arugula Latte]

77. Lately she's been acting like a racist candidate.

But, according to many of her supporters, that's just fine and dandy 'cuz she's a "fighter." :eyes:

[HooptieWagon]

69. Let her stay in

I'm an Obama supporter that thinks hillary should stay in the race as long as she wants. She's out of money, probably can't do much more harm than she already has. She continues to embarass herself, destroy the Clinton "legacy", and discredit the already almost irrevelent DLC - all good. If putting up with her temper tantrums for a few weeks longer means purging the Dem party of the "Republican lite" faction, then I'm all for it.

[Diane R]

76. I completely agree. At this point, let her continue to ruin any chance she has for 2012.

[tekisui]

9. I'm sorry, but she is bringing it upon herself.

I know she has a lot of support, but she has less support than Obama.

At this point, she could have used this time to build Democratic Unity. SHe could have continued on, not a a fierce competitor, still trying to win an unwinnable Primary, but as a bridge builder. She could be promoting her issues, but she is acting like she still has a chance. With just as much bravado as before. I'm sorry that she is putting her strong supporters in a position to keep defender her actions.

[kevinbgoode]

14. According to her, she was supposed to be the nominee after Feb. 5

I suppose that didn't happen because she has so much support.

[Adelante]

3. I agree

She is making a fool of herself.

[C_U_L8R]

4. What's worse

is she's starting to make those that work so hard for her look foolish too.
That's just not right.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

5. When crowds begin to boo her, when even joe scarecrower

says its over, IT IS OVER

[rug]

6. GDP got there first.

[EffieBlack]

8. When Pat Buchanan becomes your biggest advocate, you have to wonder

Anyone watching him this morning? I'm sure his head is going to pop off or maybe he'll just spontaneously combust.

[H2O Man]

11. Right.

Are you watching John Edwards on MSNBC now? He is saying Clinton should focus on her strengths, rather than going after what she believes are Obama's weaknesses.

Only Pat Buchanan spoke in support of Clinton's embracing the Nixon "southern strategy."

[EffieBlack]

15. He is so delighted to see someone pick up his mantle and carry forth his message

he doesn't know what to do with himself.

[H2O Man]

22. As bad as he is,

I have more contempt for those Clinton supporters who do attempt to justify her "working, hard working, white" statement. It is sad to see any democrat support that type of tactic -- but we see it, even on DU.

[H2O Man]

25. More:

Even Peggy Noonan is saying that Clinton crossed the line, and that Nixon never said "white" when pushing his "southern strategy." She got Buchanan to admit that Nixon and Reagan would not have said such an ugly thing.

[EffieBlack]

32. I agree - Buchanan is just doing what he has always done and is true to who he really is

But it is very sad to see people who should know better buying into this.

[Hepburn]

64. JMHO....

...but the "hard working white people" statement from Hillary was beyond despicable. I was shocked when I heard about this. She certainly scraped the bottom of the barrel by saying this.

[cliffordu]

71. one can only hope.....

[Perry Logan]

10. Reality check: polls show that normal Democrats favor her staying in the race.

[ingac70]

13. Operation Chaos dittoheads perhaps. n/t

[cali]

16. She has every right to stay in. And her SDs and the NYT

and others have every right to point out her lack of grace, and the ugliness of her words.

[kevinbgoode]

17. "normal" Democrats?

You mean the "working, hard-working white" ones?

[tekisui]

20. Yeah, not those non-normal blacks or eggheads.

I'm sick of being categorized as a non-normal Democrat. We are all Democrats.Period.

[chascarrillo]

18. You mean "White Americans", right?

[boobooday]

19. normal?

In what way?

[PassingFair]

52. "Normal" Democrats are horribly uninformed.

What's YOUR excuse?

[geiger]

21. time to stop all of this

[SoFlaJet]

23. you know cali

I actually had a flicker of hope Wednesday morning when I saw her talking about McCain instead of Obama and then I realized that the ONLY reason she WASN'T talking bad about him was because of the big pow wow with the uncommitted SD's that afternoon...so yesterday it was back to business as usual with the CC..bash Obama even worse than before and making yourself not only sound pathetic with the white-only shit but to LOOK pathetic and like a sore loser who doesn't know when to stop....kind of like your junkie friend who won't go to rehab and the only way to stop him is if he's in jail and FORCED to stop-the wave of SD's that just put Obama past her...think of them as the cops who caught the junkie

[cali]

24. I know. I thought she'd transition into a less openly hostile and belligerent

mode of campaigning. Should have known better.

[SoFlaJet]

27. the day after the primaries

I posted a call for unity thread-with hope that it would be heeded by all-both sides...it went over like a lead frickin balloon..now I see why. One thing I've learned reading responses on the blogs and MB's is there are a LOT of smart MFers out there in cyberland who know a LOT more than I ever will...but I'm trying

[Name removed]

26. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NJSecularist]

28. You have been saying for months that Hillary should stay in the race.

Now you are saying she's making a fool out of herself for staying in the race?

Make up your mind. :crazy: :crazy:

[cali]

29. Am I suggesting she should drop out? No. I'm noting the perils of

behavior. She has every right to stay in and even every right to diminish her own dignity and her reputation.

[SoFlaJet]

68. look who's talking dude

you were one of the most enthusiastic Obama supporters BEFORE her "big win" in Pennsylvania and now you somehow morphed into Taylor Marsh using all the same arguments and code words you railed against for months. I seriously wonder about some of these Clinton supporters, whether they are really democrats or republican operatives here with one purpose and one purpose only-to start shit

[dawgman]

82. One can stay in the race without resorting to

the negativity that has pervaded this campaign. Look, it will take a miracle for HRC to win this thing. If she does, more power to her. But what is far more important than HRC or BHO is that Dem is in the whitehouse this term. The way she is going about things she is hurting the true goal of making sure a dem gets the win. Especially now that it is virtually over. The party (and its ideals) IS more important than the individual at this point in history.

[Marrah_G]

31. Kinda like Gore and Kerry- amazing what the media can have us believing. nt

[RazBerryBeret]

35. remember how many jokes

were hurled at Huckabee?

it's coming....

[zulchzulu]

36. She has given up her chance to be a leader in the Senate at this point

Like her husband was in 2000, she is now radioactive. She has burned most of the bridges and, given how she is bloviating, will soon be considered almost at a level of people like Lieberman, Zell Miller and perhaps even Michael Jackson.

[SoFlaJet]

39. I'm not sure she has zulchzulu

burned all the bridges...yet...but who knows what another day will bring-yesterday was pretty disgusting IMO...and look, Obama has finally taken the lead in those super delegates that are supposed to be her last best shot. Clearly they ain't buying the bullshit and divisiveness

[stratomagi]

37. We really don't need her to be our version of Mike Huckabee. nt

[Orsino]

38. The problem, if there is one, would seem to be self-correcting, then.

Betcha she can still win a state or two, though.

[ccharles000]

40. I will always respect and adore Hillary.

[Dawgs]

42. Disagree. Hillary deserves to go out on her terms.

And, I have supported and defended Obama as much as anyone.

[cali]

44. Where did I say she didn't? Way to not read the OP.

[Dawgs]

47. Okay, but you're still wrong.

Sorry.

[global1]

45. I See A Pathetic Individual Now When I Look At Hilliary.........

She's just like a prize fighter that doesn't know when to quit. Sure she might win one or two more fights - but in the process gets knocked around and comes out with Dementia pugilistica/chronic boxer’s dementia or punch-drunk syndrome.

We see these former boxers and we feel sorry for them because they don't know when to quit.

[L0oniX]

46. Her "white" statement has doomed her forever IMO.

[foo_bar]

50. she has to be finished in New York

If the Times Op-Ed page is questioning her "integrity and influence", it means she hasn't got any. I don't foresee any way she could carry New York City (about half the electorate in NY state), and upstate NY is not Mississippi in the 1950s. Now that she's stabbed everyone but "hard-working, white Americans" in the back and run a campaign that makes Peggy freaking Noonan blush, I'll bet the proverbial farm she has no carpetbagging future here.

[nomorewhopper]

48. she IS desperate and out of touch. (and has been for over two months)

[WA98296]

51. Why is she doing this to herself. It's hard to watch, it's embarrassing, it's sad.

[Hugabear]

53. Somewhere, Huckabee has to be laughing his ass off

Wonder if SNL will do a new skit for Hillary?

[Meshuga]

54. Like I have said elsewhere

It doesn't matter if she wants to stay in. It's her right.

But the problem is the way she is conducting herself and I also agree that she is beginning to look straight out pathetic.

[davsand]

55. Cali, I think she can stay in as long as her campaign cash holds up.

I also think that if she stays in at this point it will probably be on her own dime because contributions have probably dried up. If she is writing the check then I suppose she can say and do whatever she wants--just as any of us can.

The difference here is that many of us have realized how much she risks by making the choice to stay in with too much negativity for too much longer. Obviously, she runs a risk of hurting the Dem party if she goes too far, but I have to wonder at what point will she recognize that her entire political career is hanging on how she acts in the upcoming weeks.

While I recognize that there will always be people who love and respect Hil, I also realize just how potent the danger is if any pol gets on the wrong side of too many people. Can you imagine how it would be to run for re-election as a Senator with the entire DNC (essentially) pissed off at you?

It should be a pretty sobering image for her because the Clintons know politics very well--and they have seen first hand how bad it can get if everybody is looking to carve off a bit off your ass. Imagine a race where not only does the GOP comes after you but so does the DNC...

Give her time. She is a smart lady that will ultimately come to see just how dangerous and essential the next few weeks are for her future.



Laura

[karynnj]

56. I agree and it is sad

The saddest thing is that she is saying things that a younger HRC would have angrily denounced a Democrat for saying. I also think we are just beginning to see the egotistical, unscrupulous people around her point fingers at each other and eventually the Clintons for this defeat in what should have been an easy race. Does anyone believe the story that the root of her problem was that Mark Penn said she would get ALL California's delegates.

Why is that unlikely? It would take her winning an incredible percent of the vote to get that. Penn's background in polling, math, and politics makes it very unlikely he didn't verify the actual rules - think about it he was early in his career a computer guy. He did the Leiberman campaign in 2004. If many of here, have read the details of how votes are allocated in each state - there is no way he didn't get that it was not winner take all. Not to mention, assume for a minute it was true and Penn said this to a dozen campaign insiders - how many would have disputed it? I vote for 11 or 12.

In fact, the things I read early on, all estimated what her net could be, based on the early polls where she was 20 points ahead or more in states like MA, NY, NJ, and CA. Those states included most of the states with real strong Clinton ties. That net would have given her the momentum and helped her to better in the later February contests - even if they were needed. The fact that the media did the detailed analyses makes it extremely unlikely that no one on the Clinton team - including the master politician of our time - didn't know what nearly everyone on this board did.

Remember the Carville/Begala and McAuliffe books trashing 2004 - implying they were blameless and smarter - pushing all the blame on Kerry and the people immediately aligned with him? Compared to the Clinton campaign, it was well run - and made it to the general election. Imagine the books that will come out of this - each blaming everyone else - projecting the author as the voice of sanity. Longterm, it may be that we will have to triangulate these accounts to get the whole story.

[seaglass]

57. Your concern for Hillary has zero credibility. Not when you say

that you don't know whether a win for Obama or a loss for Clinton would make you happier.

Don't think that people aren't on to your game, cupcake.

[cali]

58. I have mixed feelings here. Yeah, I'm happy she's not going to be the nominee

that doesn't mean I look forward to seeing her publically humiliated- even if it's her own doing.

[TBF]

59. "Becoming" a joke? We're past that - she has been a joke for awhile now.

[indimuse]

60. And WHEN did BO Win???

YOu and BOTH know...He does NOT have the Del's!!! ha! count that!

[Upton]

61. "On her way"? She's already there

the longer she stays on this foolish hopeless quest, the worse she looks. How can a woman such as Hillary Clinton have fallen so far?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

62. Well, she's not getting many laughs, and won't give the punchline to that lousy joke.

[lutefisk]

65. I respect her right to self-destruct, but she is making the Democratic party a joke, too.

As long as she identifies with the Democratic party, she represents all of us, imho. She has no right to take us all down with her. She needs to be responsible to the political party and its members. We have no obligation to go down with her. She is being very selfish and may end up being as destructive to Democrats' chances in 2008 as Nader was in 2000. At least Nader wasn't a Democrat.

[blm]

67. It wouldn't be so bad if her 'fighting' spirit came from fighting FOR Democrats and our issues

instead of playing nice with BushInc and his war strategies for 7 years while saving all her gunpowder to attack other Democrats.

[nomaco-10]

70. If anybody saw wolfson and mccauliff on msnbc.....

They even think it's a joke, wolfson on tweety last night and mccauliff on joe this am. They can't even stop themselves from laughing from the absurdity of their own lies and spin. No indignation towards the people that interviewed them who pointed out the impossibility of their quest to convince the american people that she has a real shot at the nomination. They even think it's all a joke. It's a joke alright, and a sick joke at that.

[SlipperySlope]

72. A national joke?

N/T - started a new thread instead

[Independent-Voter]

73. The jokes on the pinheads who keep on donating to this lost cause.

Come on folks - give your cash to the vendors that Veruca's fucked over instead. It'll be more appreciated.

[SlipperySlope]

74. How else is she going to get her $11.5M back?

The trial balloon they floated that Obama should pay her loans got shot down. WHO IS GOING TO PAY BACK THE MONEY SHE LOANED HER CAMPAIGN?

[Independent-Voter]

75. Sounds like she's making it a donation now!

[FredScuttle]

78. Looks like it's time for another book

That or put Billy Boy back out on the rubber chicken circuit.

[kwenu]

79. The national joke committee called and said Hillary arrived 10 minutes ago.

They expect a quick certification process.

[samsingh]

80. sadly i must agree with you

[ForeignSpectator]

81. Irreparable damage? Then so...be...it. She is old enough, it's her decision.

And since the race is practically over, one can watch this much more relaxed.

The facade is crumbling, and crumbling fast, we get insights in her true nature here and how detached from real-life she actually is.

Part of me starts to feel sorry for her because the moment she will actually realize that it's time ( to kiss her dream goodbye ) won't be pretty.

[katty]

86. If she keeps this up she'll be depicted on a broom,not @a podium

anymore.

[Major Hogwash]

88. She certainly can't help Obama now.

Which is why she won't lift a finger to help him after August.

[jillan]

89. Could it be possible that she is still out there fighting because alot of people still believe in

her?

What was today's gallup poll? O 48% H 46%---something like that.
She still has alot of people that want her to continue the fight.

[GetTheRightVote]

90. I am starting to realize that we may need them both, they are the faces of the Democratic

membership which is made up of women and men of various colors, ages and backgrounds.
Just maybe we need them both because they are make us stronger then when they are apart, together they unite us but apart we are divided as we are now. Lets not forget the final goal is to beat McCain.

[Radio_Lady]

92. Just what do you think would happen if someone proposed a unity ticket?

[Raine]

93. Hillary "jumped the shark" with that

white comment. x(

[DuaneBidoux]

94. Yes, but the joke is in extremely poor taste and thus I show a quiet embarrassed smile.