So we're now supposed to don the kid gloves and play nicey-nice?

[MadHound]

In spite of the fact that Hillary continues with her campaign, in spite of the fact that Hillary is now resorting to pretty blatant racist tactics, in spite of the fact that Hillary is launching, and will continue to launch kitchen sink attacks, in spite of the fact that Hillary's supporters, both here and in elsewhere, are continuing to lie, cheat and slam Obama as a candidate, using ever more outrageous attacks, including flat-out stating that they're going to vote for McCain out of spite, we here on the Obama side are supposed to take all this shit in the name of some sort of mythical healing process? A process that has become ever more painfully obvious the neither Hillary nor her supporters want to engage in at this point, if ever.

If Hillary and her supporters want this healing process to occur, then it is they who need to take the first step. Hillary needs to drop out of the race now, and work visibly and vigorously for the election of Obama this fall. She needs to drop her racist, divisive dogma and bring her troops back into the fold. Her supporters need to stop with ongoing kitchen sink attacks, smears and lies, and most especially stop threatening that they'll go to McCain, and encouraging others to do the same.

Until this happens, quite frankly Hillary and her supporters are still an opponent to be dealt with, firmly, ruthlessly. You simply can't back away in the middle of a fight like this and allow yourself to get hurt time and time again in the name of healing. We will never heal as long as the blood from fresh wounds continues to flow. All that will happen is that you'll be bled dry.

So for those in the Obama camp, don't let your guard down at this point. For those in the Hillary camp, I realize your hurt, pain and frustration, but if you want to engage in this mythical healing process and make it a reality, urge your candidate to begin the process by bowing out now, and then follow her lead in working for the party and the nominee, rather than continuing to attack and smear him. Otherwise, all you're doing is helping to tear down the party, and sacrificing the good of the party and the country on the altar of Hillary's greed, ambition and vanity. The first step in the healing process is standing down and not engaging in attacks. This is what Hillary and her supporters need to do, now.

[lumberjack_jeff]

1. No one really expects you to. But yes, that is what you are supposed to do. n/t

[MadHound]

13. And yet if Obama and his camp backs down, look what happens.

Hillary comes up with this "hard working white Americans" crap, her supporters either start throwing the kitchen sink, promising that they'll vote for McCain, or both, and Obama gets scorched by trying to play nice and engage in a healing process. That healing process simply isn't going to happen when one side is willing to continue to inflict wounds. That is why Hillary needs to withdraw now, it will send the message that her supporters to back down and let the healing process again.

But I for one am not going to continue to extend the hand of friendship to the Hillary camp, only to get it cut off time and again by Hillary and her supporters.

[lumberjack_jeff]

33. If his camp "backs down" he won't win?

If you really cannot resist the compulsion to attack someone, how about Mike Gravel? It won't be as counterproductive to our GE prospects.

It is very possible that I've unfairly misjudged you. Can you please provide some examples of your having "continued to extend the hand of friendship"?

[RandomKoolzip]

2. Peace and love (and unity)

[babylonsister]

3. Rec'd! nt

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

4. Yes. n/t

[Poll_Blind]

5. I agree. Rec'd! n/t

PB

[ShortnFiery]

6. For me? No slack until after Voting and the SDs get out "THE HOOK" to force HRC off of ...

the National State. Their new "Delegate Count Bar" doesn't past the smell test.

Once the votes and SD put Obama over 2025, then I'll "play nice" ... before she's forced out? NO WAY! :evilgrin:

[marylanddem]

7. Every day she stays in the race, McCain gains ground.

[northzax]

17. wrong

ever day she stays in the race, Obama gets national news coverage. Every day Rush, Hannity & co are talking about her, they aren't attacking him. every day she's in the race, he makes more money.

or do you really think that in mid june, anyone will be talking about this? remember your past elections, there is a nice long break between Super Tuesday and the Conventions. that break is still coming, Hillary has made it shorter (which, if it is true that the more people see of Obama the more they like him, is only good for him)

[leftofcool]

8. Not as far as I am concerned

I think Obama supporters should do as they please

[Marrah_G]

9. I don't give a fuck what you do.

When you are all done having your fits, I will come stop by and join in the race against McCain.

[PassingFair]

26. So many "brick walls" around here, huh?

:sarcasm:

[Marrah_G]

32. You just can't help yourself can you?

I pity people who have so little self control.

[PassingFair]

35. I pity those who don't know when to quit. n/t

[Marrah_G]

36. Since you are following me around looking for a fight.......

Welcome to ignore and enjoy arguing with yourself.

[PassingFair]

40. Slam!

Miss "I don't give a fuck!" !!1!

:rofl:



Please, please vote for the Democratic
Nominee, I am BEGGING you!

:rofl:

[leftynyc]

43. Marrah - how could you let some

anonymous asshole on the internet annoy you so much? Just laugh at their nonsense, that's all it deserves.

[Marrah_G]

49. True true

Time to refer to my "good guy" list and remind myself that the bad ones are just obnoxious and looking for fights and aren't worth responding to.

Thank you for the reminder. I hate it when I let myself get baited by some jerk.

[MadHound]

39. Self pity is such a sad sight n/t

[Marrah_G]

42. Just can't help yourself either

Should have never taken you off.

[MadHound]

45. LOL, well hey, urge your candidate to drop out, drop your attacks, and then we can work together

Continue with the bullshit, then don't expect me to back down:shrug: You can put me on ignore again as you please, but I know you, you'll just have to peek and see what I'm having to say.

[PassingFair]

56. So this is what ignore feels like.

It's so COLD in here...

without the shining light and warmth from
"I don't give a fuck" all around.

Glad you are here, suffering with me, just the two of us,
alone in the void....

[GodlessBiker]

10. Yes. We won. We're not fighting to the death. Hillary can leave at her own time now.

She can no longer do any damage to us.

[MadHound]

19. She's continuing to do damage as we speak

Her latest veiled racist rhetoric is continuing to hurt our party and our party's chances in the fall. If you want to try and make up with the Hillary camp at this point, fine, go for it. But don't be surprised when your overtures are rejected and you're left bloody and bruised. From what I see Hillary supporters are by and large going to continue to attack until Hillary drops out for good, and possibly beyond.

[GodlessBiker]

21. I don't think so. People are seeing her as a sad figure now. Obama's visit to Congress....

really said a lot. It was brilliant. He's in the center of activity. Let her speak and even have the last word if she wants it. By July this will all be forgotten.

[PATRICK]

22. She, personally, can

I think, if she even is divided or half-hearted in helping the party unite or intends to use her faction in a continued power struggle that will take on the colors of revenge or sabotage. Some of this is a struggle that might be unavoidable or even necessary, despite the common threat posed by the GOP non-choice candidate. Yet it all depends on her even if she seems to fade back into the passive stance that has not done wonders for a Congress with no intention to impeach or end a criminal war or speak truth to power using the real words.

Leadership on her part can help. Absent leadership over her bloc will harm. Deliberate use of her delegates in a contestable manner at the convention can harm. These unknowns depend on her and the signs seem to point, despite the wise good will of so many sympathetic party leaders, toward a blend of the latter two options after some public show of the first.

To be blunt though, if she expects to get her campaign debts paid, she must turn those personal spendings into a net advantage for the party(which they have been by stimulating party growth in all the states and making Obama better known) with some real active undoing of the damage and enthusiastic healing. No matter what she feels inside or intends to pursue personal ambitions. This is also, if ever EVER a DLC type pol can see it plainly, the best course to being a viable choice for the future and keeping the party undivided, the new portions needed for success growing.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. Be friendly.

But keep a shiv handy.

[Lerkfish]

12. all you need to know is that her campaign is over

and to move on from there.

[northzax]

14. only if you want to win in November

why don't you take your clue from your candidate, who is being very gracious in victory and not from Fox News?

I have a bit of news for you. Obama needs Clinton voters right now a lot more than Clinton needs Obama voters. there are 16 million people out there who voted for Hillary Clinton, if you want to toss them all overboard out of some sense of anger, then go right ahead. But really, don't come crying to us during the McCain presidency. and just another piece of advice: calling me racist is not going to get me to work for your candidate, I am well over my noblesse oblige guilt on that one. try another tactic. scorched earth tactics leave just that.

[MadHound]

28. My candidate is doing what he thinks he needs to do

And while he is playing nicey nice, Hillary is once again kniving him in the back with her racist bullshit about "hard working white Americans". Gee, so much for rapprochement.

Frankly my attitude is that you don't let down until the other person either backs away or is flat on the ground. Hillary wanted a street fight, well those are street fighting rules, and for her or her supporters to be trying to change the game now is utter bullshit. Yes, the party needs Clinton supporters, but not if they're going to be counterproductive to getting Obama elected this fall. It is they who need to ease up, back off and admit defeat, to extend that hand of healing.

Oh, and two other things bucko, first, I'm not calling you a racist, I don't know even know who the fuck you are, so how can I call you racist? You are, like many other Hillary supporters, pulling shit out of thin air and trying to smear it around, thus providing a perfect example of why we shouldn't allow Hillary and/or her supporters any slack until she withdraws, for if we do, both she and her supporters, as you just demonstrated, are perfectly willing to use it to go on the baseless attack again and again. Secondly, I don't watch Fox News. After all, isn't it your candidate who's cozied up with Murdoch and the boys over there?

[northzax]

41. oh right, I have never seen a comment

about 'white hard working racists who don't support Obama' no siree, not on this board. well maybe in GDP...I have never seen my candidate referred to as a 'bitch' not here. nope.

guess what? most democrats will never meet Obama himself, and so we only have his supporters to judge him by. it is Obama supporters on this board who are consistently attacking a fellow democrat, using fairly nastly language and casting all sorts of aspersions on character. sorry to break the news to you.

[redqueen]

47. What is said on this board will not affect too many of those 16 million voters.

The OP did not call you racist.

Why is there such an eagerness to conflate calling her campaign's tactics racist with calling her or her supporters racist?

[xchrom]

15. yeah -- i agree -- but not for the reasons you give --

obama has given me plenty of reasons to believe that he hasn't earned my support.

and he has been distateful in the extreme to lgbtiq folk -- as far as i'm concerned.

will he get the nom? -- a near certainty.

can he beat mccain? -- most anyone could.


will he be a friend to lgbtiq people in the white house? -- no more than what ever will put a good face on him.

will his supporters will give him the credit that is really due to lgbtiq people for their own hard work?

absolutely.

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. And yet it is he who has stated his desire to overturn DOMA

while his opponent would only overturn one aspect of DOMA.

It is he who speaks to issues of the gay community in his stump speech, no matter what the audience, while she only addresses gay issues when speaking in gay forums.

Maybe you could take another look at him.

[xchrom]

34. then why didn't he do it in the state of illinois?

he had plenty of opportunity.

but like so much of obama's career -- little real action -- or a lot being 'present' but being non-committal.

not unlike -- i oppose the war -- but don't know how i would vote if i were in the senate at the time.

or speeches in churches that sound suspiciously like the sales pitches that ex-gay ministry advocates give.

why use four anti-gay gospel acts at a pivotal state?

why bring sam nunn on board? -- the architect of dadt.

don't give me this doma crap -- i remember that time period and the raving lunacy of republican ascendancy.

[TheZug]

16. You're supposed to "let it rest"--because they don't want to hear it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. The fight with the DLC, Clinton, wing of the party will continue.

The dispute between the left and right wings of the party have been going on since it's inception.

The irony of this fight is that it's mostly about perception because both candidates are "moderates" in their policies.

The best thing about Obama is that he's not a Clinton and shows promise of responding to the left rather than the usual Clinton dismissal of anything that they think is "too liberal" or doesn't fit into their "triangulation" theory of pandering to the right.

[butterfly77]

20. KICK!

[smoogatz]

23. If you're that pissed off, it's time to step away from GDP.

The nomination run is essentially over: HIllary's only hope at this point is to jockey for VP, or at least some campaign debt relief from Obama. She'll get neither. Nor will she jump ship and run as an indie: that way lies political suicide. Basically, she's just trying to save face, although it's obviously too late for that, too. It's an incredibly humiliating defeat for her: she's been the presumptive nominee since just after election day, 2004.

[bvar22]

44. Saving face?

...by attacking the Democratic Party nominee and fanning the flames of racial division?

Attack from Hillary are now worse than attacks from the Republican Party. Hillary is using "Democratic" money to do McCain's work.

[redqueen]

51. Exactly. This is not saving face.

This is proceeding with the kitchen sink strategy.

[MadHound]

48. Frankly it doesn't look like she's trying to "save face" to me

Saving face would have been bowing out gracefully Wed. morning and going to work for the nominee ASAP. Instead, she vowed to continue on to the convention, launching her "hard working white Americans" rhetoric and continuing on the attack. This only benefits McCain, and makes it look like she's trying to throw the election to him in order to have a chance in 2012.

[smoogatz]

52. That's possible, and I think a lot of Dems share that perception.

Which isn't doing much for Hillary's numbers, nationally. But what I think she's doing is pitching herself as an indispensable running-mate; someone who's capable of capturing Obama's weakest demographic. As opposed to Richardson, say, or any of the other major contenders for VP. Obama would be a fool to put Hillary on the ticket, it goes without saying. And there's little evidence that he's a fool. Rather the opposite, IMO.

[RichardRay]

24. Yes, that's exactly what I am doing...

you can make your own choices.

I know how to fight, and this is not the kind of a struggle where I need to brutally disable a downed opponent to insure the fight is over. It's not even close.

She's beaten, as long as she stays down then I'll be glad to let it all start to fade away. If her campaign tries to make a counter attack (say claiming that West Virginia and Kentucky qualify her as the SD's choice), then hit again, otherwise, let it go.

[ampad]

25. Oh no Madhound

Some of the very ones coming in this thread with their shit are bringing race into threads that have nothing to do with race. I'm not falling for their shit because some of them are nothing but a bunch of fucking hypocrites; hell bent on starting shit because they know just like everyone else that Hillary has lost. I swear to god a bunch of fucking children. No, if you see shit that isn't right forget all that "be nice to me waaaaa" call them on it. In reality that is what it is all about. They want to be able to whine and start all kinds of shit because their girl lost but want you to be nice to them or they won't vote. This is a freaking message board for god sake and that fact that so many of them let faceless people hurt their feelings to the point that they say they will vote McCain says something about their character if you ask me.

[MonkeyFunk]

29. No

keep up the feeding frenzy of lies and smears. It's not going to make any difference now. You guys have already stupidly written off half the party. Keep going - you seem to enjoy it.

[MadHound]

37. I will put down by cudgeol when you do, not before

A good indication of your intentions will be pulling your "Gomama" sig line. But I don't expect you to do that, since you've already made your intentions clear for this fall.

[MonkeyFunk]

54. My sigline

is equal to you guys lying day in and day out, trying to destroy Clinton, demanding she be kicked out of the party and calling all her supporters racists?

You guys are round the bend.

[MadHound]

55. So in other words, you're going to keep on doing the kitchen sink and baseless attack strategy

No matter what. Thanks for being another shining example of why we shouldn't play nicey nice with you folks until Hillary has conceded the race and endorsed Obama. If we do, you folks simply view it as a better, easier chance to stick in the knife.

[MonkeyFunk]

57. When have I attacked Obama?

And how is my sigline an attack?

Go on, find all the threads I started attacking Obama. Find 3 of them. Find 1 of them.

You won't. Just another obama fan lie. It's all you guys do.

[mmonk]

30. I understand your feelings but I think the best thing to do at this point

is to handle it the way Obama is. I think she sort of shot herself in the foot yesterday as well as Wolfson going on TV and saying Puerto Rico should count towards popular vote totals as a metric (even though they can't vote in the fall). Maybe it's time we don't get in their way anymore and just concentrate on getting the nomination in a straight forward manner.

[4themind]

31. It's not about just hillary, it's about the voters too

here and on DU, that is who we are trying to unify with, whether hillary herself wants to or not. If others attack with untruth, defend with the truth, but there should at least be olive branches offered and they can decide whether they want to join in and fight together. Rebuke the untruth and try to bring others to our side at the same time, they aren't mutually exclusive

[redqueen]

53. Very well said.

[Skidmore]

38. We all need to put on work gloves and do some heaving lifting up till November.

[Bread and Circus]

46. I think being nice right now is a good idea, Obama has won. It's time to come together.

[MadHound]

50. That's fine and all if you wish to do so,

But I've found through long, hard experience that if you try to make nice while you're opponent still wants to attack, you wind up on the ground with a blade at your throat real quick like. I'm willing to make nice, but only when Hillary has officially dropped out and signaled her supporters that her race is over and that she is endorsing Obama.