If Hillary Clinton is a racist, then Barack Obama is assuredly a homophobe.

[IndianaJones]

My experience here has demonstrated which form of bigotry seems more acceptable.

This observation seems to mirror general society rather well.

[Occam Bandage]

1. So Obama talked about how he deserves the nomination because "Straight Americans" support him?

Oh, no, you're just still fixated on an insane singer who got to talk at an Obama fundraising event.

[redqueen]

11. Excellent analogy!

They'd have been rending garments and ripping their own hair out if Obama had ever DARED suggest such a thing.

But their candidate screws up and spouts this "white voters" crap and now the best defense they can muster is: "she's not a racist! / we're not racist!" (lame old strawmen) or "but she's only exploiting racists... and that's OK!"

*sigh*

[backscatter712]

21. Meanwhile, Hillary does her own dogwhistling.

She had that speech in Philadelphia about how Obama was having a fundraiser in SAN FRANCISCO, drank some lattes in SAN FRANCISCO and conferred with fellow elitists in SAN FRANCISCO.

Hmmmm. I wonder what message we get when we read between the lines of her speech...

[TahitiNut]

36. In just three posts, this subthread covers it perfectly! Bravo!

:applause:

[slackmaster]

49. It's much more insidious than that, OB

He often makes references to "straight talk".

:hide:

[Aloha Spirit]

50. hehe

[VotesForWomen]

71. well, hill never said that, did she? you're just lying for obama. nt

[ShortnFiery]

2. STOP changing the subject! eom

[VotesForWomen]

72. right; we've got to stick with the race-baiting from O-ists. nt

[nichomachus]

3. Give it a rest

[smoogatz]

4. Enough with the whining.

She lost. Fair and square. Too bad. Get over it.

[yodermon]

5. Wow, what'd he say? n/t

[uponit7771]

6. You know we only have 3 top post a day right?

[rucky]

7. That means you regard both equally.

right?

[MannyGoldstein]

8. Richard Mellon Scaife Wants To Execute Homosexuals

Scaife is a murderous billionaire, whose endorsement Clinton actively sought. He funds a group that aims to impose "Old Testament" justice in the US, including execution of practicing homosexuals.

[PBS Poll-435]

12. I love how you leave out the small details.

She had no desire for his endorsement and you know it.

She wanted the #2 paper in Pittsburg to endorse her.

(And Obama met with the OP/ED board too!)

[Occam Bandage]

15. "Oh, she's only coddling up to homophobes because she wants them to endorse her!"

...yeah, that's much better.

[PBS Poll-435]

18. It is a freaking newspaper.

It is NOT the de-facto spokesperson for the African-American wing of the Ex-Gay movement.

[Occam Bandage]

20. So that makes it cool, then. It's okay to love up homophobes if they got what you want.

(I've repeatedly denounced Obama's inviting McClurkin to that fundraising event. Most Obama supporters have. Obama himself has publicly made clear he opposes McClurkin' homophobia and the ex-gay movement. Will you denounce Hillary's tolerance of homophobia? And will you denounce Hillary's racial politics?)

[Catherina]

40. So was this Der Sturmer. Scaife's paper is no better as an arm of the right wing n/t

[mrreowwr_kittty]

70. Is that what Ignored said?

Unbelievable the lengths they will go to excuse Her Majesty's homophobic associations.

[MannyGoldstein]

23. Here's A Nice Picture Of Dickie And Hillary Having A Chat

At the offices of Scaife's mouthpiece newspaper. I'd call that actively seeking an endorsement.

[PBS Poll-435]

28. Yes. At a newspaper.

She met with the editorial board at Pittsburgh's #2 paper.

It is not like she went to visit Scaife, Merlot-in-tow, at his dungeon.

[MannyGoldstein]

29. Do You Have A Link On Obama

I'd be surprised if this happened. It would be very ill-advised.

[Divernan]

30. No, Obama met w/Post-Gazette board, NOT Scaife's rag's board

I live in the area and my recollection is that Scaiffe sat next to Clinton at the meeting, but there were no stories about Obama meeting with any of the Trib-Review board.

I tried googling to check and could find no reports of the meeting. But you are so sure, please give a link to prove me wrong

[PBS Poll-435]

33. You appear to be correct.

Mea Culpa.

I thought I remembered reading an article saying that he had met with them, but I can't locate it now via Google.

I will edit my above post.

[donheld]

55. She could have, and should have, told him to get stuffed.

[roguevalley]

73. she didn't reject it. a decent person would have. so what if she didn't

ask for it. she hasn't dumped it. that is even worse considering how he has hurt her family.

[DefenseLawyer]

9. There is a difference between being a racist and playing racial politics

When you start talking about "white America" in West Virginia, that isn't by accident. It doesn't make you a racist, it makes you an old school politician. There are many that insist to this day that George Wallace was not a racist, he just knew what issues were going to get him elected in Alabama.

[smoogatz]

16. Pandering to racism for political gain IS racist, pretty much by definition.

Those who commit racist acts are racists. Those who commit racist acts while proclaiming their fondness and high regard for blacks/latinos/etc. are racist hypocrites. This should be obvious, no?

[DefenseLawyer]

17. Well no, I don't agree

I am not saying that playing racial politics is BETTER than being a racist. It is still despicable in my opinion and most certainly damaging to our party and our country. But to me a racist is someone who believes that people of some races are superior and that people of other races are inferior or at the very least sufficiently different from ones own race that we out to have laws and customs based on race, which reflect the preference of one race over another. I don't think Hillary Clinton holds those beliefs. I do think she is a shameless politician who will never fully redeem herself for choosing this path.

[smoogatz]

19. That's a pretty narrow definition of racism, IMO,

and one that doesn't take racist acts into account.

[DefenseLawyer]

24. Well I think we are splitting hairs here

I think being a racist refers to what one believes, not what one does. And in the abstract I certainly believe that one can be motivated to perform what amounts to a racist act without holding racist beliefs himself. That doesn't in any way justify or excuse or give some kind of moral cover to such acts. My saying Hillary Clinton is not a racist is not meant as a compliment. I think we are in agreement that this kind of racial politics is as bad or maybe even worse, as personally holding racist views.

[smoogatz]

27. Good enough. And I think yours is probably the more mainstream,

"old school" view of racism. I live/work in liberal-arts academia, and generally we take the broader view of these things. I guess it's a "quacks like a duck" thing, for me.

[Divernan]

31. I get it. Clinton is not a racist, but she plays one on TV

[Spazito]

43. How can one feel it's okay to "play racial politics" if that person believes

racism is wrong? If you believe racism is wrong, would you even contemplate "using racial politics"? I don't see how anyone can differentiate practicing racial politics is racist by it's own implications, imo.

How do you deliberately exacerbate something you believe is, within your core, to be an anathema to your beliefs? It does NOT "compute".

Edited to correct wording

[DefenseLawyer]

46. It's called "the ends justify the means"

And it can be used to rationalize almost anything.

[Spazito]

53. If one has to "rationalize" to find the unacceptable now acceptable then it really

wasn't unacceptable in the first place, imo. When "the end justifies the means" it means there is NO moral compass, NO ethical boundary, and using racism is racist at it's core.

[DefenseLawyer]

57. This is essentially arguing terminology more than meaning at this point

You say "using racism is racist" ergo the person who uses racism, regardless of his motivation is a racist, and that's fine. I say being a racist is based on what one believes, and I believe there are plenty of examples where a person plays upon racial attitudes and tensions to achieve a goal without holding any beliefs about race one way or the other. A racist might call an African American the n word out of hatred and a sense of superiority. But what if an eccentric millionaire offered a guy a million bucks to call someone else the n word? (a silly example, but indulge me here). The person offered the prize has no racist beliefs whatsoever; he knows that calling a black person the n word is morally and ethically wrong. He decides the money is worth it and uses the epithet. You say he is a racist, I say he is an opportunist. We both think he is fucked up.

[Spazito]

58. Do you honestly believe there is anyone who "holds no beliefs

about race one way or the other", especially in the US? If yes, do you think Senator Clinton was speaking to those "neutral" Americans? Or was she speaking to those who hold definite "beliefs" about race?

I say, in response to your "silly example" he is a racist opportunist and, yes, we would both think he is fucked up.

[DefenseLawyer]

60. Oh she is definitely speaking very specifically to the racial fears

and prejudices she perceives in those "working class" voters of West Virginia. That doesn't mean she shares those views, only that she is exploiting them. You say to-may-to, I say to-mah-to, let's call further discussion off!:toast:

[Spazito]

61. LOL, I have enjoyed the debate....

we both agree appealing to racial fears is fucked up, that's good enough for me!

:toast:

[YOY]

10. Oh are you still here Huey?

Isn't there some "study" you need to do on how "white people" think?

[kid a]

13. Wow...how did you do on the analogy section of the SAT?

This is bad logic.

[enki23]

14. Yeah, I saw Axelrod yammering on the other day about that

About how Hillary has had a tough time getting the support of hard working americans, straight americans. You know, real people.

[closeupready]

22. It's very possible that he is, but as a gay man, I'm encouraged that

he has spoken publicly about the importance of respecting gay and lesbian brothers and sisters, friends, and also he belonged to the gay-friendly UCC for over 20 years. I give him the benefit of the doubt.

At the same time, Hillary does NOT support the notion of recognizing same-sex marriage on a federal level, so on equal rights issues, she doesn't seem any better than Obama.

[PoliticalAmazon]

25. The Clintons aren't racists. They are bigot panderers, which is far worse. n/t

[mmonk]

26. As someone who's witnessed his speeches in person,

he makes ot a point to mention inclusion and always includes the GLBT community.(I don't know why I'm posting in this thread, I'm planning to move on beyond the divisiveness)

[nomorewhopper]

32. what an idiotic post

i mean, HONESTLY

[dsc]

34. Of course we don't count you should know that by now

If Clinton invited David Duke to the state at a fundraiser there would be Hell to pay but he invites McClurkin and it is hunky dory.

[Jed Dilligan]

37. I've seen you post this analogy a few times.

What makes McClurkin so bad, exactly? He's a clown and a fool but I don't see him on the same level as David Duke. I understand that you are pointing out a double standard and I FULLY agree with you that homophobia is more acceptable than racism in America. However, wouldn't someone like Fred Phelps be a better analogy with an out-and-out race-war racist?

[Lilith Velkor]

41. A better analogy would be Uncle Ruckus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passion_of_Reverend_Ruckus

[Jed Dilligan]

52. Funny stuff--like the blind black racist on Dave Chappelle.

[dsc]

64. Mc Clurkin has repeatedly claimed gays are targetting children

and has called for the closing of schools that are designed to protect gays from straight bullies.

[Jed Dilligan]

65. I didn't know that. Only that he was one of the "ex-gay" loonies.

Even my girlfriend's bible-thumping Texas kin don't believe gay people can be "cured."

The pedophilia lie is very odious, though. Obama should do more to distance himself if that's true. I'm glad he mentions gay Americans in his speeches, though.

[dsc]

66. as a gay teacher I find this lie the most pernicious

It is why it is so hard for a teacher to be openly gay in wide swaths of the country.

[ccharles000]

35. I don't think he is a homophobe.

But I did like him less for the McClurkin thing.

[hokies4ever]

38. Yeah! Negative mud-slinging fest

Keep up the great work! :rofl:

[TheWraith]

39. No, but keep trying. The RNC is going to have plenty of smear jobs open for applicants. nt

[ecstatic]

42. Obama is the only candidate who includes GLBTs in his general speeches

Clinton only does it when she's pandering in front of a GLBT audience.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. THis is for you

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5894592&mesg_id=5894592

[stevietheman]

45. Enough. n/t

n/t

[AllentownJake]

47. He's the Nominee

Get over it.

[Henry Jennings]

62. Why is Hillary doing this?

Since Obama has won, why is she hanging in? Just to be the spoiler and make it so Barack can't win? It's obvious he's hurting with hispanics, gays, and Reagan Democrats -- where will this end? Is it all just about Hillary '12?

I'm really disappointed in her.

[Mooney]

48. When did Obama say that he wins the heterosexual vote?

[barack the house]

51. If you can provide examples of things he has said personally it would help your argument.

[donheld]

54. Get off it. This is really getting old and stupid.

[Indenturedebtor]

56. From this Obamabot I have one thing to say

[Blue-Jay]

59. another post-and-run.

Boring faker.

[Henry Jennings]

63. oic

That wasn't even a post-and-run, you silly person.

[galledgoblin]

67. correction, if Obama is a homophobe, then Clinton assuredly is BOTH a homophobe AND a racist

or at the very least she panders to both crowds

[Forkboy]

68. She isn't and he isn't. Next?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

69. So that means Hillary is BOTH a racist and homophobe

Really tired of having to point this out to you guys, but your Queen's hands aren't clean when it comes to associating with homophobic preachers. Matter of fact, I'd say hers are more troubling considering she paid one $10000 a month as a consultant.

Hillary's Donnie McClurkins

Let's not even start on DOMA and DADT, shall we?