Clintons campaigned as Bush-Rove at a time America was ready to reject that type of politics

[blm]

They just expected Democrats would roll over and accept it as easily as Republicans do. That shows little faith and respect for ALL Democrats who wanted to END the politics of Rove, not emulate it.

Thinking about HOW the Clinton campaign got to this point - couldn't be any more clear:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/14/AR2007081401722.html

The Rove Legacy

By Peter Baker
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 15, 2007; Page A03

As he packs his desk just 15 steps from the Oval Office, Karl Rove says he will not join any 2008 presidential campaign. That's just as well because none of the Republican candidates presumably could afford the association even if they wanted his strategic smarts. Besides, none of them is running the campaign quite the way he would. The candidate who seems to be adopting his style and methods the most so far? Hillary Rodham Clinton.

At least that's what Nicolle Wallace thinks. The former Bush White House communications director, who worked closely with Rove, said that Clinton "has almost operationalized the whole idea of turning your weakness into strength, message discipline that is almost pathological -- she does not get off message for any reason -- and never skipping an opportunity to exploit her opponent's weaknesses."
>>>>>

Clinton's campaign manager, Patti Solis Doyle, seems to agree with that assessment, having effectively vowed to run her operation much as Rove did his two successful national campaigns. "She expresses admiration for the way George W. Bush's campaign team controlled its message, and, given her druthers, would run this race no differently," Michelle Cottle writes this month in New York magazine. " 'We are a very disciplined group, and I am very proud of it,' she says with a defiant edge."

Rove and the Clintons have circled each other warily these past eight years, exhibiting a mix of grudging respect and deep bitterness as the central, if competing, political strategists of their era. Rove singled out Hillary Clinton in interviews in the past few days, predicting she will win the Democratic nomination and be a tough opponent in the fall of 2008.
>>>>

The Clintons recognize the skill Rove has brought to politics and admire his craft, if not his ideology. Just days after the November 2004 election, Bill Clinton pulled Rove aside at the dedication of the William J. Clinton Presidential Library in Arkansas. "Hey, you did a marvelous job, it was just marvelous what you did," Clinton told Rove, according to the book "The Way to Win: Taking the White House in 2008," by John F. Harris and Mark Halperin. "I want to get you down to the library. I want to talk politics with you. You just did an incredible job, and I'd like to really get together with you and I think we could have a great conversation."
>>>>>>


It's past time Clinton supporters start to place blame where it belongs - on the Clintons and their circle who ADMIRED Rove and his destructive style of politics. Period.

[blm]

1. Kick for ending the politics of Rove.

.

[Mist]

2. Why would Dems support those who pull rovian tricks? nt

[death to the DLC]

3. Because they lack integrity? eom

[blm]

6. Well, those Dems who WANTED their own Rove, support Clinton. Those who wanted to DEFEAT and expose

the deceits of Rove have joined to support Obama.

[rudy23]

4. They are fighting the last war--and assuming that we will behave like Repukes if they say so.

They treated us like sheep, and tried to appeal to a part of our "reptilian minds", which we don't operate from the same way the Republicans do.

Meanwhile, while they were copying someone's approach, Obama was inventing a fresh one.

[blm]

5. It's as if Clintons didn't see voters were sick of the politics of Abu Ghraib, Schiavo, Katrina

and that they believed voters wanted a Dem version of Bush and Rove.

This was always the danger of Dem party pretending Gore and Kerry lost because they were highminded and thoughtful instead pounding on the fact that RNC stole both elections for Bush.

At some point they twisted what happened in those elections so much, they even believed they needed to emulate Rove instead of exposing his deceits.

[wowimthere]

7. Her campaign and her rhetoric **** OUTDATED**** before she got started

[nichomachus]

8. I've been saying this all along

Hillary was running in the last election -- and the country had moved on.

When that became apparent, she wasn't able to move on, roll with the punches, and adapt. She just dug deeper and deeper into Rove's bag of tricks, embedding herself further in the muck.

[underpants]

10. I have too- DC is just like anything else these days, just a bunch of copycats

Everyone is DC has cconvinced themselves that Rove MUST be a genius, as he advertises himself, because *hick* I mean how else could he have gotten W elected twice (turns to the help and yells at them to freshen up his drink) *hick*

Obama's guys on the other hand-who ever they are- have run an almost perfect AND positive campaign.

[nichomachus]

11. What distinguished Obama

was his ability to adapt and overcome. They threw a bunch of shit at him and he worked with it to his advantage. When the Rev. Wright issue came up, he gave a speech on race that got rave reviews from everyone except the Clinton camp. It also gave a lot of people their first real look at him or made the re-evaluate him.

Hillary, on the other hand, couldn't adapt. She had no plan for after Super Tuesday. She had no idea how to counter Obama except through ridicule, which turned a lot of people off, and now, as she is in the final stages, her performance under pressure is alarming. She's flailing and sputtering and saying stupid things -- which calls into question her ability to handle a major incident -- at any time of the day or night.

Don't think the bad guys aren't watching the candidates and having their psychologists figuring out just what buttons need pushing to unnerve the president of the US.

[blm]

14. And Obama actually DOES employ the similar elegant and mature tones of Kerry, and the American

people are able to appreciate it when given the opportunity to hear his words in more unfiltered situations. And, of course, complete disgust at George Bush after Schiavo and Katrina exposed what the corporate media had tried to protect has been helpful to the Dem cause, as well.

[killbotfactory]

9. DLCers always think democrats should be more like republicans

It's their solution to everything.

[wiggs]

12. Exactly right. This is what extreme ideology does to you...ends justify the means and

there's no moral compass except for implementation of the ideology. Clinton's ideology is that she's to be the next president.

Her voting record and campaign were both reminiscent of Rove/GOP proven-but-disgusting strategy and I was hoping that, if elected, she wouldn't also GOVERN the way they do...with consolidation of power, misinformation, nepotism, ruthlessness, and arrogance. I was hopeful but not sure.

[blm]

16. No moral compass...that is the driving force in both families the last few decades.

.

[CoffeeCat]

13. There is a much larger issue at hand here...

Stealing pages from Rove's playbook is telling. However, the fact that Rove would sit
down with the Clintons and help them win an election is so very astounding.

How many people actually think that Karl Rove would leverage the Clintons and help them
win the White House--without assurances that the Clintons were on board with Rove's
politics?

How much more damn evidence do some people in the Democratic party need--before they
realize that the Clintons were folded into the neocon fray. They support the neocon
warmongering agenda...Iraq, Iran, Syria.

Would Karl Rove aid and abet a true Progressive candidate, who would come in and
end the corruption, warmongering and corporatist reign that has been propagated
by the BFEE?

Look at Hillary's votes. Yes, on the Iraq war. Yes, on George's Bush's demand
that the Congress declare an arm of the Iranian government a "terrorist organization."

She's Lieberman in a pantsuit, masquerading as some kind of champion for low income
earners who haven't gone to college. She's culling and exploiting the blue-collar voters in the same
way that Bush culled and exploited the Evangelicals.

Rove has bashed Obama on Fox News and wrote a column that slashed Obama and touted Hillary.
PNAC founder Bill Kristol adores Hillary and trashes Obama.

This is so revolting--that the unthinkable almost happened in our own party.

[blm]

15. I agree - this has gone on far longer than this campaign. Gore and Kerry were being undermined

privately by the Clintons and their loyalists as BushInc was being supported publicly by them.

Ned Lamont was a good example, too, of the Clintons idea of loyalty to the Dem party. They'd campaign actively for Lieberman during the primary, but gave only token nods to Lamont who actually WAS the Democrat in the race.