Hillary supporters Price for Supporting Obama in the GE

[kennetha]

If Obama should hang on and win the nomination -- as he is clearly favored to do right now -- and he wants money and votes and volunteers and enthusiasm from the Clinton supporters, then we have a simply and straight-forward price. Offer the VP to Clinton. She either accepts it or rejects it.

But no offer, no support, no money, no nothing!

[MadBadger]

1. How petty.

[kennetha]

5. It's politics!

Our gal won nearly half the votes and nearly half the delegates. She won in places dems must carry. In fact, she creamed your guy in those places. We're not going to just walk away and let you have the game all to yourselves from here on out, even if you hold on and win.

We're either in this together, as a team, or you're on your own.

[bowens43]

7. you 'gal' lost. Period. End of story.

[VotesForWomen]

131. more proof that O-ists don't even care about the GE. they just want O to be the nominee.

[kwenu]

141. Duh. And he will be the nominee because he earned it .

Hillary supporters are acting like children who are throwing a tantrum because they lost.

[VotesForWomen]

160. so you're admitting you don't care about the GE or the future of america?

[kwenu]

161. I am admitting that Hillary is NO better than Edwards, Kucinich, Biden, Richardson and

every other Democratic candidate with a loyal following who had the best interest of the country in mind when running for the presidency. All of those people arguably would have made great presidents but they DID NOT survive the nominating PROCESS and would not DARE destroy the party's chances of winning. Don't give me that crap about Hillary is so right there can be no one else. Obama is the presumptive nominee. She needs to end her campaign endorse Obama and get behind him. As the first major female contender for the presidency she is not setting a good example for women. Yes. It is going to come back to haunt her and the next female candidate will have to distance herself from being Hillary-like.

[Barrymores Ghost]

162. A-F*CKIN'-MEN!!

Testify, Brother!:toast:

[Shae]

198. VFW . . .

"so you're admitting you don't care about the GE or the future of america?"
No, that wasn't kwenu admitting anything. It was just the voices in your head again.

[Citizen_Penn]

152. Sidelined?

Stay on the sidelines, sister.

We're on the move.

To the White House.

Yes, we can - take him there.

Watch.

[LisaL]

157. And I sure as hell don't have to vote for your guy.

End of story.

[kwenu]

191. Why wouldn't you vote for the democratic nominee?

Especially one that has an almost identical platform as your own candidate. Why is it so hard to realize that Hillary had the same opportunity as everyone else who ran? She didn't make it. That's all. Obama is not evil just because your candidate didn't do as well as Obama. Everybody else seems to understand and accept the fairness of the rules except for Hillary supporters. That's really sad commentary on the first serious female contender for the presidency.

[Doityourself]

25. You really need to embrace the stages of grief..I think you're in the ANGER phase right now...

[rox63]

61. Sounds more like the bargaining stage to me

They want to make a deal.

[Doityourself]

67. Hmm..but the bargaining stage comes from the deep rooted Anger stage..lolo

[PoliticalAmazon]

65. It's Obama's job to win over Hillary supporters, not BUY them....

I understand Hillary supporters are angry and disappointed, but they should focus their anger at the one who deserves it: Hillary Clinton.

It's Hillary who failed them, who could not win, even using political tactics that make Rove/Bush look like the Dalai Lama.

It was Hillary's to lose, and she diligently worked to do so, along the way dividing America again by racial lines, and pandering to old injustices and nursed grudges, perceived and real.

This is going to sound sappy, but I think Hillary supporters have to forgive Hillary first for failing them, before they can move on and become a positive, winning part of the Democratic Party.

[kwenu]

192. I can't agree with you on that. There is no reason to be angry at all.

It was a fair but tough race. What would have happened if George Washington at the end of his term said, "Fuck it, I'm President, I'm not going anywhere." For those who are familiar with history, no major ruler in the world at the time actually expected Washington to simply turn over power and walk away...but he did. That graciousness became our standard and is what preserves our republic. When it's time to go, you GO! Al Gore could have stayed and fought endlessly too.

Democrats should be democrats at the end of this process not Hillary supporters vs democrats. That indicates a defect in the party.

[dbmk]

91. Even Hillary supporters must agree that the VP choice

should not be made on such a basis alone?

Unless Hillary on the ticket is more important than a Dem win?

[musicblind]

180. I honestly believe that Hillary on the ticket as VP is the only way we will have a dem win

If she doesn't get the VP slot, that's okay. I'll still support him and vote for him, but I truly, honestly, 100% believe that our only shot at unifying the party and winning in the GE is to give her that slot.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[roguevalley]

169. you are no dem. we don't need the % of deadenders like you to

win this. Go find someone else who will tolerate your tantrums and foot stomping. McCain could use the help.

[MirrorAshes]

187. sorry, but "nearly" just doesn't cut it

and if we're on our own, you're writing the death sentence for the democratic party, and that will be hung around YOUR neck. careful what you wish for.

[Terran]

194. Just go vote for McCain.

You personally. And don't speak for other people. All this "we" bullshit is pathetic.

[littlebit]

76. I don't think it is petty.

Why would I give my hard earned money or time to something or someone I don't believe in?

[MadBadger]

89. Then Dont! But dont come with a list of demands.

[dbmk]

95. Because there is bigger things at stake?

Unless you don't believe in having a Dem in the WH is better than a Repub, ofc.

You must believe that whoever ends up as the nominee is the better choice, compared to McCain. Or?

[salbi]

111. Maybe to make sure McCain doesn't win???

You don't have to like Obama, I wish you would, but you don't have to. But, what you should decide is will you do whatever it takes to keep McCain from winning. If it were Hillary winning, I wouldn't like it, but I would vote for her. Keeping McCain from the white house should be the priority of all dems.

[stevietheman]

2. Obama already has all the activists he needs, so I guess Hillary activists will have to...

get on board without a price, unless they want Bush's third term to commence in January.

[kennetha]

12. Who has more to lose from Bush's third term?

If your guy loses, it will be his fault not ours. He will be done. But we will stand to fight another day.

Time to team up (once this is over). Then we both get something we really want.

[stevietheman]

I hope you don't want him to lose. That would be unfortunate. n/t

n/t

[kennetha]

80. Of course I don't want him to lose

But you don't seem to realize that by alienating Clinton and her supporters he is much more likely to lose and by accommodating her and us, he is much more likely to win. I know you prefer a third alternative, that Clinton just slink away quietly into the night, making no demands and that Clinton supporters just fall in line like good soldiers.

But life doesn't work that way. And neither does politics. She and we still have a hand to play.

[stevietheman]

I want Clinton to not slink away -- she needs to show she's a Democrat...

and fight for Obama this Fall. Her legacy is at stake here. And naturally, if Clinton gets on board the Obama Express, her supporters will have to make a decision about whether they want a third term of Bush or not.

The alienation, which went both directions, will whither away when we see our shared enemy in the Fall, and that is McCain and the Republican Empire, which must be destroyed.

[salbi]

112. Why pick someone for VP who may hope you lose so they can run again in 2012?

[wvbygod]

33. Obama already has all the activists he needs?

So when my party starts asking for even more from me I can get a pass because
Obama already has all the activists he needs? Thanks for the break because I have
busted my butt for the Clintons for many years now. I could have paid off the farm
and spent unrecoverable time away from loved ones. Life is way too short to be shat
upon after putting in some much of it trying to help others.

Broke but not bitter.

[stevietheman]

41. I'm sorry you feel that way.

But my point is that if a few Hillary supporters want to take their marbles and run home, they won't be missed, as many Hillary supporters and Obama's current huge base of supporters will be enough to win in November.

[last1standing]

3. Great more threats and demands.

Enjoy McCain. :eyes:

[bowens43]

4. yes, blackmail becomes hillbots

you still don't understand why your candidate lost, do you?


really fucking pathetic......

[WA98296]

6. Right, like she would have done that. No thanks.

[sfam]

8. Obama needs Hillary supporters' money? I don't think so...

And truly, wouldn't you want a VP that meshes well with Obama? Maybe its just me, but I don't think those two really get along all that well...


I do absolutely agree thought that Hillary should be able to request some things from Obama, but not quite in the ultimatum way that you are suggesting. Perhaps changing the health care plan, veto power over judicial nominees, perhaps even the majority leader in the Senate position? All good things...

[scheming daemons]

9. Sorry..you're not in a position to negotiate..and you're not in a position to speak for all HRC fans

[global1]

10. Well That Was Spoken Like A True Democrat.......

thank you for your ultimatum.

And when John McCain wins the presidency and continues this war and stacks the Supreme Court against you we'll have people like you to blame.

[bicentennial_baby]

11. Extortion much?

:eyes:

[Renew Deal]

13. Boo freaking hoo

Take a hike Abu Abbas.

[BlooInBloo]

14. In the immortal words of Willy Wonka: You get nothing, you lose! Good day!

[Marrah_G]

15. I don't have a price.

[Doityourself]

16. Give me, if not fuck you. Well at least you didn't say no vote! or does "nothing" cover that?

[Avalux]

17. So now you've sunk to blackmail??

Pathetic. And you know what's funny - there's a rumor Obama may pay off Hillary's astronomical campaign debt. So who is asking who for money?

[kennetha]

21. It's not blackmail

It's bargaining. And if you think that Clinton has no bargaining chips, you don't understand politics.

[scheming daemons]

23. One chip she DOESN'T have is the VP spot..... no chance in hell....

....


Obama's goal is to win.


She's an anchor.


She won't be on the ticket.

[kennetha]

30. You are in serious denial

About Hillary's electoral strengths. Right now she runs BETTER against McCain than Obama. So how could she possibly be seen as a drag on the ticket. You're letting your heart get the better of your brain.

[scheming daemons]

43. 58% national negatives. 47% ceiling.

Putting Webb, Biden, Nunn on the ticket brings in the same voters that Hillary does.... without the baggage.



She's an anchor.

[Avalux]

44. Hillary is the antithesis of Obama's message. It would be a three-ring circus.

The GOP is salivating at the chance to run against Hillary. She has no electoral strength; only baggage and divisiveness.

Anyone with a brain can see that.

[donheld]

142. Grand Idea, then maybe Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, and Scaife

Will approve.

[quakerboy]

196. The problem is in how those polls are weighted

There still ain't Nothin like a Clinton to rile the Righties. Bill has been drilled into them for years as the "nemesis", and Hillary is like Bill, but with ovaries that challenge their Macho sexism on top of the instinctual hate they have been fed. I strongly believe that many Republics will sit it out, stay home this year. Unless they are provoked with a Clinton. But I doubt that they weight potential Republic turnout differently based on which candidate is being compared to Johnny.

Perhaps I am wrong. But that has been the strong trend in the R's of my acquaintance. They don't want McCain, but they don't want Hillary more.

Beyond which, I look to the purpose of a VP. Obviously to be able to take over in case the President is incapacitated, but also, being real, bringing a state or particular bloc. You have addressed this, but given the postings I have seen, it sure looks to me like the majority of those who are Hillary supporters first and democrats second are, in actuality, Barack haters first and Hillary supporters second.

Again, perhaps I am wrong, but that is how it looks to me.

[Doityourself]

32. It's blackmail. period. I want my way or I won't do anything to help Dems win.

[last1standing]

49. I think that YOU have no bargaining chips.

And you obviously don't even speak for Hillary's supporters let alone her campaign.

The Obama and Hillary camps will come to their terms without your help. Why don't you go write some more letters to super delegates? I hear they're loving them.

[MadBadger]

90. I'll give you Wes Clark and I wont go any further.

[Renew Deal]

102. Actually it's pathetic.

You're "bargaining" with DUers on behalf of Hillary? lol

[Crunchy Frog]

18. Okay. I'd rather do without the dead weight.

[redqueen]

19. Ugh.

[Dhalgren]

20. Obama/Clinton in '08!

Mmmmmm, can you smell the victory!

On a serious note, if Clinton is the VP, no one would ever attempt any harm to Obama. Everyone, the world over, would pray constantly for his continued good health. So, there's that...

[Skwmom]

35. What Clinton Logic. A CORPORATE VP, one who sells out this country to big $$$ special interests

, would do just the opposite. It would put a big target on his back.

[Dhalgren]

52. What a great grasp of sarcasm...

:eyes:

I have never supported Clinton (or Obama, for that matter)...

[cascadiance]

168. HUH? The MORE LIKELY a conspiracy would kill him!

The corporate people would WANT to hire a white racist to do their dirty work and put Clinton in charge instead!

Exactly WHY Obama shouldn't have her on his ticket. That should be a lesson learned from the time of the Kennedy's and MLK in the 60's. I'm sure Ted is letting him know that now!

[scheming daemons]

22. Go vote for McCain, Kennetha.... you know you want to.....

[EmeraldCityGrl]

24. Barack, Hillary AND BILL!

It's almost too frightening to consider.

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING!

[islandmkl]

26. uhhh...i think i'll just send my money to Barack...

and let him pick a GOOD VP...

[NeedleCast]

27. I wont be blackmailed

I hope you will do the right thing and vote for Obama in the general, because there is more at stake than your hurt feelings.

[Medusa]

28. Hillary is yesterday,

Obama is today and tomrorow. No Clinton on the ticket. We don't need her and we damn sure don't want her.

[kennetha]

42. Not a matter of what people like you or me want

It's about political reality. Obama NEEDs to accommodate Hillary who still has legions of intensely passionate and loyal supporters, nearly half of whom in important swing states say they would NEVER vote for Obama. I believe that most of them will indeed come home and vote democratic. But not if Obama stiffs Clinton. And if he embraces her, it will be orders of magnitude easier to bring them back into the fold.

It's politics. We don't have to love each other. Obviously we don't. But if we're going to win, we need to form a team that gives everybody some real buy-in.

[scheming daemons]

53. He will "accomodate" her by letting her speak at the convention and supporting her desire to be

Senate Majority Leader.


She won't be part of the administration.

[salbi]

117. Most who say they will never vote Obama won't even if she is VP

[Barrymores Ghost]

178. Link to "half of [her supporters] not supporting the eventual Dem nominee?" Thanks. n/t

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

29. Tonya Harding + Nancy Kerrington = one less skater

don't think its such a good idea.

[totodeinhere]

31. If you are a loyal Democrat, then you should support our nominee no matter whom he picks for VP.

It's OK to lobby for Clinton, but you shouldn't make threats like that.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

63. Hear hear!

The point is to make sure a Democrat is in the White House come January.

[reflection]

34. And you would be.....? n/t

[BellaLuna]

36. oh bullshit

I voted for Hillary but if it's over it's over.

No conditions need to be put on Obama. He ran a brilliant campaign and will do so against McCain.

The Democratic nominee will get my support regardless of who it is and who the runnning mate is.

Knock of the childish BS. It's time to get busy and kick the asshole out of the white house.

[Arkansas Granny]

37. You do not speak for this Hillary supporter. If Obama is declared the nominee, which seems likely,

I will support him in the same way that I would support Hillary for the Presidency, no strings attached. Electing a Democratic President at this time is much more important than my feelings.

[democrattotheend]

45. Good for you.

I wish more Clinton supporters could have that attitude (though I know plenty of Obama supporters would not have been this classy if the tables were turned). I understand that emotions are high right now (it took me a while to accept Kerry in 2004), but I hope more people will come around and be a team player like you as the election gets closer.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

68. Absolutely right!

Granny, Obama is not my choice for president (nor is Clinton), but I realize the importance of getting a Democrat in the White House.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

121. Thank you for speaking the truth.

I fear the author of the OP is here only to sow dissension.

[SeaLyons]

38. Hillary would never accept a VP position...

[scheming daemons]

47. Not only would she accept... she's actively working to get it.....

...but Obama won't ask.

[Barrymores Ghost]

181. Nor would I accept her in it. n/t

[TheWraith]

39. Um.... No.

First off, Obama doesn't need more contributors. He could draw another
$1 billion dollars just off his existing contributors before he even came close to maxing them out.

Second, 95% of the Clinton supporters will come home in the end after the pique of losing the primary wear's off. Those who don't are unlikely to be swayed by a VP offer.

Now, compare that to the risk of Clinton taking the VP spot, which would be a huge drag on the ticket, endanger downticket races, and motivate Republican turnout like nothing else.

No.

[kennetha]

46. in ALL current polls Clinton runs better in the GE against McCain than OBama

So how could she possibly be a drag on the ticket?? Amazing!

[scheming daemons]

48. Because the current polls ALSO show her ceiling.... Obama's is higher......

Ask President Dukakis what polls in May mean.



Nothing.



Her 58% negatives are unable to be overcome.



Obama won this race being a "change agent". Putting Hillary on his ticket effectively nullifies his whole reason for running.


It will be a "new face". Jim Webb.

[Barrymores Ghost]

184. Precisely. See here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5890370&mesg_id=5891436

[Barrymores Ghost]

182. Source, please? Thanks. n/t

[NJmaverick]

40. You are in a position to demand nothing,

I however, am in a position to grant nothing.

[mindfulNJ]

50. Dammit.

WTF!!!

Is this election about defeating McCain or is it about Hillary's (and your own) EGO? Grow upalready! Your candidate lost!

[kennetha]

62. You folks seem to think you get all the marbles

Cause your guy MAY squeak out a narrow victory and you get to dictate everything about the party. Well there's a very strong "Clinton Wing" of the party still standing that has money and votes and activists. You don't get to just dictate your will.

[scheming daemons]

69. You're right, to a degree. But he DOES get to pick the VP of HIS choice.....

He'll accomodate Hillary in other ways.

[Barrymores Ghost]

185. She can be the Secretary of Health and Human Services...

...assuming, of course, that universal health care IS still important to her, despite her wild veering off-course into the domain of Rovian smear-paigning...?

[washingdem]

72. No, we have something called majority rule in this country. We won.

[LittleClarkie]

110. Who are "you folks"

I don't know this poster, but I see no indication that they are an Obama supporter. It is possible not to support Hillary without supporting Obama.

[donheld]

137. You do seem to be lacking marbles

[jgraz]

149. snrk -- my response exactly

[Lerkfish]

51. well, we'll put you down as a non-democrat, then.

since you're throwing the party under the bus in favor of your failed candidate.

[Ganja Ninja]

54. And when she goes on the sunday morning talk shows and

Russert plays the clip of her saying:

"I think that I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002."

And then he follows it up by questioning her on why people should vote for Obama when she herself said he wasn't qualified to be President, how will she answer?

[elocs]

55. And you've appointed yourself spokesperson for all Clinton supporters?

What makes any Clinton supporter believe that she would want to have to play second banana to Obama? How well would that sit with Bill? I suppose they could go through the charade and pretense that the VP spot was offered and she turned it down. That is, if as a Clinton supporter, you don't mind just being patronized.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

56. I'm a Kucinich supporter

and even though I know none of Kucinich's great ideas are likely to be implemented in an Obama (or Clinton) administration, I have pledged to vote for the Democratic nominee in the GE. Now I don't intend to work for the Presidential nominee, nor send them money; HOWEVER, as a good Democrat, I have and will continue to financially support progressive Democrats down ticket. And when the Arkansas Dems have figured out their Congressional nominee for the Third District, I'll see what I can do to help him/her out.

Why can't the supporters of the losing candidate do something similar? What is the point of giving the White House yet again to the GOP just because your person didn't get the nod? And kindly remember that I believe BOTH nominees have pledged to support the other should they win.

I'm sure that your money and hard work will be appreciated by Democrats running for Senate & House and even state offices. These are often overlooked, and your work for them will be a great boost for your local party.

[scheming daemons]

57. A) We won't need your money... B) we'll have most of HRC's support anyway....

Despite your temper tantrums, 80%+ of Hillary's supporters won't vote Republican in November.

[Poll_Blind]

58. Ha! **** EXTORTION **** How noble! n/t

PB

[Califooyah Operative]

197. seriously. nt

[Bright Eyes]

59. President McCain

Thanks you for your support.

[Orangepeel]

60. most party activists will work against McCain regardless

Good luck with that. I don't think that it will work or that Obama will fall for it.

15 million people voted for Clinton.
A small number won't do anything for anyone other than her.
A small number just voted for her to vote against Obama and wouldn't have done anything anyway.
Some number are loyal Democrats who will work their collective ass off for the nominee no matter who it is.
The vast majority are voters rather than activists who won't donate or volunteer no matter who the nominee is.

The same is true for any candidate.

[Dr Fate]

71. Lieberman & now Hillary supporters prove which wing of the party is the most loyal.

Typical DLC template.

Ironic b/c it's the lefty DEMS & hard-working activists that the DLCers always accuse of being potentially disloyal- but in reality its the "centrists" who always torpedo everything when they dont get their way.

[JackORoses]

64. Guess what? She doesn't get SHIT!

How do you like them apples??

[cottonseed]

66. Who are you talking to?

To whom is this OP directed? Are you asking Obama supporters to offer the VP slot to Hillary? Or are you asking Obama to? In which case, I doubt he's read your post.

[washingdem]

70. Nah. We'll go with Tim Kaine or Kathleen Sebelius. Thanks for playing though.

[CakeGrrl]

73. WHAT money?

Clinton didn't get enough support to keep her own campaign alive without pumping $11+ million into it.

What's with the extortion? "Give us the VP slot, or else." That type of tactic, if you haven't noticed, is NOT winning over the Superdelegates.

I've got a better idea: We can replace the Clinton extortion bloc with new voters who can be motivated to vote against McCain lest his need to remain at war involve a military draft...

[cliffordu]

74. Blackmail politics. Very mature. BuhBye!!

[polmaven]

75. I cannot disagree with you more.

Because the price for not supporting the Democrtatic nominee is a third Bush mis-administration, a new 100 year war, a neo-con SCOTUS, etc...and that is just too high a price to pay.

[kennetha]

78. In bargaining theory

the person who is willing to walk away from the table ALWAYS wins the bargain. Obama HAS to meet Hillary half way -- even more than half way. If we lose this one, it will be HIS fault, not Clinton's. And if he stiff arms Clinton, and her supporters, he will lose.

That's really all I'm saying.

[scheming daemons]

85. He doesn't have to offer VP to avoid "stiff arming".....

She won't be the VP.


She's an anchor.


But he WILL accomodate her. Perhaps by helping her pay off her campaign debt. Perhaps by working for her nomination as Sen. Majority Leader.



But she won't be part of the administration.

[polmaven]

115. The problem is

that this is not theory....This is real. And this country cannot afford a John Mc"Cane" presidency.

We Hillary supporters can make it happen if Senator Obama is the nominee. She has already said she will work her heart out for him. We should follow that lead and do so too.

[nomaco-10]

77. DABDA Stage three. Some of you are making real progress.....

others, not so much.

[knixphan]

indeed.

Hey can we all just go straight to 'acceptance' now?

[nomaco-10]

96. The good news is....

that many are in stage four, that's why they don't post here so much anymore. But, they'll be back as soon as stage five kicks in.

[KingFlorez]

79. I will support Obama regardless of what happens

There is too much at stake in this election and we can't afford to play bargaining games. It's best to just move on and work together, it's good for everyone.

[Jim Lane]

188. Thank you!

I was pretty sure the OP was speaking for only a small minority of Clinton supporters. I'm glad to have it confirmed.

Of the eight candidates who started the season, Clinton was at the bottom of my list, but I've also known from the beginning that I would support her if she were the nominee. Your phrase "too much at stake" sums it up perfectly.

[charlie]

81. I think we're setting a new record

this election season for the number of nitwits who'll openly relish a Republican victory in the fall. It sure didn't take much to smoke out the real cultists around here.

[Beregond2]

82. I'm sure

he's shaking in his boots. He's done so poorly without you so far!

[chefgirl]

83. Horseshit!

Like Obama owes her something??

In my considered opinion, he's been FAR more gracious to her than she deserves, given the sleazy campaign she's run against a fellow Democrat. THATS why he's winning and she's losing.

Buy a fucking clue with all that Hillary money...(oh wait...).

Quite frankly, when he wins the GE without her "help" we'll all finally be able to wash away the stench of this disgusting campaign of hers, and start fresh.

What a great day thats going to be!

-chef- (who has avoided all this GDP bullshit for months, but this was just the final straw)

[kennetha]

84. People here don't seem to understand the concept of a bargain

But politics is ALL ABOUT bargains and compromises. A losing Clinton will still have VERY POWERFUL bargaining chips. That's the real point of my post. Somehow Obama supporters take the very idea of bargaining as tantamount to blackmail.

I guess that's part of the new politics where your just sort of morally obligated to fall in line behind the savior.

[scheming daemons]

86. She can "bargain" all she wants... but VP will be off the table.....

Obama won't offer.


If you think he will, you're not paying attention.

[kennetha]

88. Care to place a bet?

THis is politics, not beanbag!

[scheming daemons]

94. Sure.... and you're right...

It's NOT beanbag.... .and Obama wants to win in November..... and he can't if she's on the ticket.


The GOP wants VERY BADLY for him to put her on the ticket. It will double their fundraising. It will cause the currently-disenchanted Republican base to line up outside the polls on election day hours before they open.


You claim to understand politics, but you don't really understand a thing.


The WORST choice a "change candidate" can make in this election is to help the GOP with their fundraising and GOTV by putting on his ticket the very symbol of "NOT CHANGE".... the Clintons.


I'll bet you anything, within reason, that you want.... that Hillary will not be the VP... and she won't be asked.

[MadBadger]

92. Bargaining goth both ways. You would have to back off your original offer as well.

Like if Obama said hed give you Wes Clark.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

101. There's nothing "new politics" about it. In the primaries you fall in love. In GE you fall in line.

[charlie]

104. BWAAH

That's the real point of my post.

From here it looks like the real point of your post was to climb a soapbox and declare yourself spokesman for Hillary Nation, which assuredly you ain't.

And Don Corleone might call what you're doing "bargains and compromises", but anyone else would call your litany of non-negotiables wrapped in a threat to pull the trigger something completely different.

[salbi]

120. You keep acting like your candidate is the only one that understands politics

But then why is she losing?

[LSK]

128. WHAT Bargaining chips????

[RainDog]

87. priceline negotiations. 51% negatives nationwide - 49% party support

with both of those I'm being generous to Clinton, I think. Both in terms of how disliked she is and how many of her supporters would demand her on the ticket.

so 51-49= 2% of something as negotiating power?

[DemGa]

100. No, Hillary scores around 80% or higher with DEMS

Even with the Obama/right-wing smear campaign. The liberal left might SEEM like the center of the Universe - but far from it.

[RainDog]

146. 80% or higher of what?

again, where I live, she only carried the 65 and older vote as a firm majority. Obama carried 87% of the vote among all democrats. They are now at a statistical tie. (Indiana- you know, one of those hot beds of liberal elitism, what with the NAFTA highway and all that. Is Evan Bayh a liberal? No. He's DLC conservative - who couldn't carry his state for Clinton. Is that the 80% of whatever you're noting?

Georgia Dem - Maybe the south isn't the center of the universe either.

maybe some of us don't want the south to have to decide our elections, either. they don't have the greatest history as far as human rights issues are concerned, that sort of thing. The fundamentalists that have their strongest supporters in the south don't have a great record as far as science, history... they have, in fact, made the U.S. a laughingstock because of their stupidity. Do we really need more substitute teachers getting called out of class after performing a magic trick and being accused of "wizardry?" Is that the 80% vote of something you're referring to? Do I want to empower those people? No.

I guess that makes me a liberal elitist? Since I'm from the south, I can't be called a northern liberal. Since I live in the midwest, I can't be called a northern liberal... what sort of liberal am I? I'm a divorced white middle-aged woman with two kids. One with a disability. What kind of liberal does that make me?

And are you saying you're not a liberal? Are you a conservative dem, like Zell? How do you define yourself, just so that I know what sort of insult you're trying to fling my way.

Her negatives remain, no matter what you say. Her gutter campaigning remains, no matter what you say. Do you really suppose that Obama would chose her as a running mate after she claimed only she and McCain were worthy to lead? After she used race-baiting in West Va... among those hard-working Americans, white Americans?

The Clintons and their supporters have a hard road at this time, I realize. They are no longer the center of democratic power, as was evident the other day in the Senate when all wanted to make sure they were seen on board with the new power shift. With Obama as part of a new, dominant coaltion that comes from the midwest.

[DemGa]

154. 80% or higher favorable with Dems

This is from Feb. - not sure what effect the Obama smear campaign has had, but this should be fairly consistent. But there have been many threads debunking the "Dems hate Hillary charge" - which is complete nonsense.

The fact is, the Obama's HAD to vilify the Clintons - but that carries with it a risk - the risk of alienating Dems like myself.

As for what kind of liberal you are - I have no idea. I am a centrist progressive: Clinton Democrat - originally from New Jersey; so it's funny all the flack I receive because of my screen name.

The liberal left I'm speaking of, is Ted Kennedy et al. Ted Kennedy, who ran against a sitting Dem to the convention in 1980, splitting the Dems and giving us freaking Ronald Reagan. I don't align myself with this crowd - and the way I see it, this is their latest run for power. Sorry if this seems insulting, but the fact is that Clinton is popular with all Dems (until recently perhaps - smear campaign) except the liberal left I've described - for want of a better name.




http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=392

[RainDog]

155. I'm no fan of Ted

so I guess I'm out of that one.

I am a fan of Russ Feingold, Howard Dean, Bernie Sanders... I was married to a European and I found that democratic socialism was a great system. I guess that makes me an FDR/Henry Wallace liberal. My ex's dad was a printer who had a very serious illness. His family would be considered working class here. In fact, his dad was part of the printer's union. Even tho his dad was very ill and his mother had been a housewife most of her life (she did sewing and knitting on the side, professionally - knitting machines, too) anyway, even with his dad's illness, he was able to get an education, have a decent standard of life, and he went on to immigrate to the U.S. to study and work. (In fact, he studied at Vanderbilt.) So Europe's system benefited the U.S. because my ex has gone on to train lots of Americans for work in the "new economy."

The stereotype of the "European elite" is just as bogus as a lot of other ones.

That's the sort of thing democrats used to stand for too. The south made real gains when democrats in the 1960s focused on education for the south. It helped to pull it out of a lot of poverty because ppl gained skills they needed... teaching someone to fish, you know the old saying.

I think we've moved, over the last decade, into another era because of technology. Those who haven't had training have a hard time competing in the job market. We need new industries focused on new energy (I don't mean ethanol, either.) We need to have a positive vision rather than the "hide under the desk, duck and cover" fear that the oil industry's candidates offer (I'm also not talking about Hillary here.)

Personally, I do not like Hillary Clinton. I wasn't crazy about Bill, either, but of course I supported him and voted for him and I'm glad he was president, especially considering the shite sandwich he came between, in terms of presidents. I did like and support Al Gore, and I think those of us who did have been vindicated and the so-called liberal media has been shamed.

Even tho I don't like Hillary, I would have voted for her. But when she started with the McCain praise, and then the MI/FL flipflop - then the "nuclear option," - It was just too much for me. I wasn't even an Obama supporter initially. But of the candidates in the field now, he's my choice and I will work hard for him because I see it as working hard for myself, as well. To make a country I want, not one I just have to settle for.

But right now, I don't think any of us can talk rationally about the democratic party until the primary is settled. Lots of hurt feelings on all sides. Lots of outrage. This is a process we'll have to go through. When Kerry became the nominee.. of course Dean supporters voted for him. But first there was a transition. Not all were enthusiastic about it, but we played team politics. Dean also started that new re-alignment, imo. Again, his candidacy was part of the new era of grassroots democracy that was part of this technology change.

The old "Ted Kennedy" idea of liberal is missing a huge portion of the current electorate. That's what Obama found.

[trekbiker]

93. thats just what we need, a 70'ish Hillary running in 2016.... n/t

[madrchsod]

114. 60`s goldwater girl without goldwaters respect

[Stop Cornyn]

97. Which qualities does Hillary possess which would make her the best VP? The 2nd place presidential

candidate isn't necessarily the best VP candidate. In fact, that's not the case more often than not.

What makes anyone think she'd be a good VP?

What state swings from a loss into a win because of her presence on the ticket?

What demographic does she appeal to that no other potential VP candidate with fewer negatives doesn't also appeal to?

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. This is for you too

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5894592&mesg_id=5894592

[CreekDog]

99. ha ha, and you think you get nothing

i wouldn't call a tombstone nothing. :think:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

123. No shit. A more deserving candidate I've never seen.

[undeterred]

105. Is that a threat?

Because that's what it sounds like. A threat from someone who lusts for power, and doesn't care about anything else.

[Blue_In_AK]

106. The only presidential candidate I donated to was Edwards...

I don't have a lot so my contributions are going to my House candidate. Obama's doing fine without me.

[iconicgnom]

107. hmm, what'd Pelosi say to wanna be blackmailers?

bake a frying duck?
make a dying buck?
fake a sighing suck?

[Lilith Velkor]

109. "Of course we won't impeach you or defund your war, Mr. President."

[LittleClarkie]

108. So you speak for all of them now?

Did y'all have a meeting?

[madrchsod]

113. peddle your blackmail shit across the street to the rethugs

[HCE SuiGeneris]

116. Dupe

[HCE SuiGeneris]

118. We? That turd in your pocket does not represent the majority.

Awfully grandiose perception of yourself to attempt to speak for so many Democrats.

[K Gardner]

119. Let them go work for McCain. Obama doesn't need this crap. Pathetic OP.

[jgraz]

122. What is your price to go work for McCain? Send me a PM and I'll mail you a check

Since you've done your current candidate so much good, Obama can only hope you team up with Grampy McSame.

[madwivoter]

124. If Hillary somehow got the nomination,

I would definitely vote for her without question, but she wouldn't get one red cent from me. So I guess we're even.

[pdxmom]

125. Wow! Blatant strong-arm, threatening tactics. I'm really not surprised. N/T

[silverweb]

126. Nothing like the loser making demands.

Obama will do what he deems to be right as well as a winning strategy.

I feel pretty sure that sour-grapes threats will not be a part of the equation.

[jgraz]

134. I know. "Give me what I want or I'll lose even harder!!!"

:rofl:

[silverweb]

153. ...

:rofl:

[roseBudd]

127. Wolfson is that you? Why are you on DU & not CNN?

[jillan]

129. Personally - I would love to see Hillary take Harry Reid's job away from him.

That is IF she doesn't make it to the WH. I still have hope.

[jgraz]

132. Why would we want to replace one Repug enabler with another?

Let's get a real leader in that job. Dodd, Feingold or even Biden would be much better choices.

[democrattotheend]

156. I like the idea of her as Senate majority leader

I think she'd be very effective in that position. The only concern I'd have is that if Obama became president it could make for rocky legislative-executive relations. I want a Senate majority leader who will work hard to pass a Democratic president's agenda. But I don't think she would let a grudge get in the way of getting legislation passed.

[intaglio]

130. Errrrr why does he need money from Blackmailers?

Why would he want faked enthusiasm?

Why does he need volunteers who, in a fit of pique, tell voters to vote for McAnus?

As for votes, well you "hard core" Clinton folks are likely to be less than 0.001% of the electorate (thats 1 in 10,000 for those with poor math skills)

[TBF]

133. I'm so thankful you can only start 3 of these threads a day. It is really getting old.

[cindyw]

135. It's all about money and power then is it?

Obama will pay off her debts, but not enough?
So instead she needs to have the power of the VP office. Interesting

You know another option would be for her to bow out gracefully. Finish her job as Senator and support the Dem nominee, no strings attached. What does it say about her if she basically commits blackmail. Give me job or I will hurt all Dems.

[donheld]

136. Oh don't be stupid, Is Barack now a hostage to Hillary?

[RichardRay]

138. Sure, OK, we'll do that...

as long as I have some convincing way to insure everyone involved that she has no agenda other than getting Senator Obama elected. No other plans, no other intentions, nothing.

OK?

[izzybeans]

139. Yeah for social change!! I love how new your quasi-blackmail policy looks.

It's so fresh and inspiring.

:sarcasm:

[Seabiscuit]

140. Looks like you pissed off a lot of Obamanoids.

[donheld]

144. She actually amazed the majority of us

How can some of you be this stupid? It's blackmail plain and simple.

[anigbrowl]

143. Right, and go into the election showing he will allow himself to be held to ransom

No, I don't think so.

[Bensthename]

145. What? We dont want Obama to lose. She can not be on the ticket.

You will have to stay home with the other old disgruntled women..

[SoCalDem]

147. First, racism..now extortion?

What an uplifting campaign she has run, and how wonderfully she has inspired her "people" :eyes:

[kenny blankenship]

148. So you guys are just in this for extortion, huh? Nice.

Somehow I can't help but think that there are millions of Clinton voters who have nobler motives than yours.

[Citizen_Penn]

150. Thanks for your viewpoint. Here's Mine

I'm through with using ration to persuade the irrational.

It's on to the White House.

Obama Time is Now.


Stay on the sidelines and watch, if you prefer that view.

We'll take him there.

[Adelante]

151. Haha

:rofl:

We need real Democrats.

[GetTheRightVote]

158. he may thinking about either way but it is his chose to make, though I do believe

it would go a long way and healing the Democratic Party but more importantly put us into a united front to defeat McCain.

[ecdab]

159. Obama shouldn't water down his campaign with the same old Washington

insiders and politics that he is running against. Hillary would hurt his GE chances. Picking somebody like Wes Clark, that was in the Clinton camp but doesn't have the baggage that Hillary has might be a good idea,

[gbrenna]

163. Negatives too high

Hillary will be a liability in the general...she absolutely energizes the GOP base-they hate her passionately. She will drive more GOP to the polls-losing ticket. Some Republican-like my husband who will vote for Barak- will neve vote for a ticket that includes Hillary. She lost. It's time to go away. Also, geographically, it makes no sense. Obama should choose a Democratic governor in a Midwest or western state.

[gbrenna]

165. Please delete the above post

I had an error and somehow it posted both-sorry mods.

[gbrenna]

164. It's all about the negatives.

Hillary will be a liability in the general...she absolutely energizes the GOP base-they hate her passionately. She will drive more GOP to the polls-losing ticket. Some Republican-like my husband who will vote for Barak- will neve vote for a ticket that includes Hillary. She lost. It's time to go away. Also, geographically, it makes no sense. Obama should choose a Democratic governor in a Midwest or western state. Also, the GOP has a huge file on her with lots of dirt-not a good idea.

[cascadiance]

166. Spoken like a true NON-DEMOCRAT! Why are you on this site?

You are more about blackmail than about trying to work for what is best for the Democratic Party constituency!

[oxbow]

167. Are you really sure you want that, kennetha?

Both Hillary and Barack have big egos. And then there's the matter of Bill. He was a former POTUS! And you know he would be playing a major role in the White House, formally or not. The Vice Presidency under the Clintons would be easily as powerful as it is under Cheney right now. It would be a constant power struggle and the media would eat it up and crap it all over the nation. You've seen how they've treated our boy and girl the last year alone? Well, think of that for another 4 years!

[MadMaddie]

170. Only is she agrees to end the gutter politics....if she continues

on this path, she not only damages her reputation but the entire Democratic Party.

[Asgaya Dihi]

171. Eat shit

How about if Clinton supporters want to keep Roe V Wade alive, another few thousand of our troops alive, and our economy and nation alive they put their stupid deals where the sun doesn't shine and start to put the good of the nation first for a change. The other option IS McCain and everything he stands for.

You just ran an aggressive, scare tactic oriented, and republican campaign. How did that work out? Threats now won't improve the situation and there's not a chance in the world that anyones ass should be kissed over it. Bowing to your form of corruption and bribery isn't a lot better than the corruption demanded of the repubs and it'll take us down the same path. What part of "change" isn't registering?


The price demanded for saving the future of your own children and nation, and they claimed to be the best suited to lead. What a bunch of damned hypocrites.

[Barrymores Ghost]

177. SNAP. Exactly my point. Cheers. n/t

[FlyingSquirrel]

172. Funny. If Hillary had won I'd be demanding no similar price from her.

I'd vote for her no matter what. Probably donate too and support against McCain.

[The River]

173. Time To Check

your Oedipus Complex. Your devotion
to Hillary is over the top when you
stoop to extortion to "save" her.
Deal with your disappointment and grow up.

[Barrymores Ghost]

174. Well, F*ck, Jeebus, Wow. Presuming that you speak for all Hillbots...

...enjoy your exile. We don't need you.

No true "feminist" or supporter of women's rights would threaten to stay at home on Election Day, let alone vote for a candidate or support a party that would devote himself/itself to perpetuating an illegal occupation that has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent women and children, and who would stack the SCOTUS with 2-3 more right-wing-nut, theocratic, anti-choice, anti-civil-liberties zealots.

No, you strident windbags -- you FRAUDS -- are a special breed unto yourselves: sycophantic misogynists who want a woman -- ANY woman -- to be president so badly that you'll turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to Hillary's racism, to her corporatist sympathies, to her egomaniacal self-possession, and to her shameless shilling for the opposition party. Rest assured, the rest of us are not so blithely ignorant or oblivious to her hubris, or your sycophantic apologism.

I wouldn't want Hillary Rodham Clinton within a country mile of this ticket. She'll only stink it up, and give McCain an unnecessary cudgel to bludgeon Obama with, and pull our party further to the right.

God help the real feminists of America if their future depends on your dissembling band of freaks, living in your tin-foil-hatted denial.

Ta-ta.

[Mz Pip]

175. Or what?

You'll hold your breath until you turn blue? :eyes:

[Barrymores Ghost]

176. Or RED...like the GOP. n/t

[goletian]

179. speak for yourself, fox news fan.

[Colobo]

183. What a petty claim.

[TragedyandHope]

186. Blackmail?

I'm not sure that the process works that way. Senator Clinton's supporters have to make up their own minds whether or not the Democratic ticket represents their values and the direction they want to see the country heading or whether McCain would be better for the country.

Wouldn't it be better to choose a VP based on who would give the ticket the best chance of winning in November?

Obama and Clinton overlap in too many areas. On the same ticket together, they would compound their respective negatives. The VP should compliment the top of the ticket, shoring up areas where the nominee isn't as strong, broadening voter appeal and hopefully bringing along an extra state (or a few extra states) with a minimum of negatives attached.

Obama may make the offer as a courtesy and a gesture of goodwill and unity, but I don't think he sees her as the best strategic choice and I don't think she would except it either.

The most compelling reason I have seen for Obama not to run with Clinton is that Michelle would probably take the girls and leave him if he does that.

[JVS]

189. You guys don't even offer Hillary enough money to stay solvent. NO SALE

[Amimnoch]

190. Senator Obama has proven to be a VERY savy gentleman.

He's an excellent orator, and seems to have surrounded himself with an exceptional staff. Once he clinches the nomination, I've no doubt whatever choice he does make will be very carefully weighed against all the other options. If it is Senator Clinton he choses.. so much the better. If not, I'm sure it will have been for good reasons.

Making sure McCain isn't in the Whitehouse is all that matters.

[ccharles000]

193. I would love for her to be the VP.

But I will support our nominee no matter what.

[Barrymores Ghost]

195. Hillary can't even operate a campaign in the black...

...or win a single primary without race-baiting and coddling the GOP opposition, and you somehow think that makes her entitled to be 2nd in line?

Snap out it.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

199. That's fine with me.

Although I hope Clinton supporters support the nominee regardless of the VP choice. (I'm sure most will.)

[AZBlue]

200. So you're a McCain supporter? Clinton on the ticket would ensure his win.

NOTHING would move the GOP more than Clinton's name on the ticket. NOTHING.

And, regardless of that, bribery is so slimy.

[Radio_Lady]

201. See my journal page, posted a month ago...

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Radio_Lady

[FrenchieCat]

202. I think that Hillary supporters should become NeoCon pro life voters.....

if they want to.

If they were only in it for Hillary, and not her stances and policies, I think that McCain might not be half bad. :shrug: