Gallup: Clinton still beats McCain, Obama not so much

[OzarkDem]

Clinton more popular and still beats McCain better than Obama - so why are we asking her to get out of the race?

Clinton is still more popular than Obama



Obama can't get ahead of McCain



Clinton Fares Better Against McCain




http://www.gallup.com/poll/107176/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Yet-Pulling-Away.aspx

On edit: Could this be why the Obama campaign is trumping up its faux "racist" meme against Clinton? Because they're so embarrassed that voters prefer her as the Dem candidate? Is this the only trick they know?

[grantcart]

1. and that is why they are actually go to have a campaign

thanks for your concern

[OzarkDem]

23. So we can nominate the losing candidate to run against McCain?

Sorry, but Obama isn't doing well against McCain, never has. OTOH, Clinton has always been the stronger candidate against him.

So why do we want to push our strongest candidate out of the race?

Are you telling me you think Dems should trust the news media to choose our candidate?

[K Gardner]

30. Fucking GIVE IT UP ! Absolutely pathetic. Get it all out of your system, you don't have much time.

[enid602]

contest

Nor does Obama, if he doesn't broaden his base of support. 100% of dems is better than 50%.

[rodeodance]

63. as I recall, your posts are one of leading proponents for the racist charge.

[Brundle_Fly]

47. 60-70% untrustworthy

is not our strongest candidate...

seems simple enough/

[Brundle_Fly]

49. and if she didnt beat obama

how can she be the strongest?

I mean thats pretty common sense no?

[AZ Criminal JD]

81. No it's not.

She is stronger in the swing electoral states than he is.

[FredScuttle]

86. You can't equate primary votes and the GE

I know you'd love to, but it don't work like that...

[Brundle_Fly]

96. following the old

swing state model and not the 50 state strategy, the one dean has put into place and changed the face of the electorate?

[OzarkDem]

56. Link?

[Political Heretic]

106. Right here.

Clinton is viewed as "honest and trustworthy" by just 39 percent of Americans, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll, compared with 52 percent in May 2006. Nearly six in 10 said in the new poll that she is not honest and trustworthy.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Poll_shows_majority_find_Clinton_untrustworthy_0416.html

[Political Heretic]

107. Posting polls with results inside the margin of error makes you look like a dumbass.

Stop doing it.

That's why I don't these sorts of national polls often.

[book_worm]

55. losing? looks like he is ahead of McCain and Hill isn't that far ahead.

[ingac70]

2. Yawn.

:eyes:

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. It's over so now we have to work to make sure WE WIN in November

under the presumptive nominee. GET IT NOW

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5894592&mesg_id=5894592

[OzarkDem]

27. We win by backing the weaker candidate?

The primary is a draw. Why do we need to promote the weaker candidate over the stronger one, just because she's a woman or because that's what the corporate news media says we shold do?

Evidence-based politics shows us we always lose when we let the news media choose our candidate.

[last_texas_dem]

100. Picking candidates that the media hates has always worked so well for us, too...

[Political Heretic]

110. "The Primary is a draw" You must be the Black Knight.

Actually, the voters are choosing our candidate.

[rodeodance]

65. Swing State Democrats Say Hillary Best For Top Of Ticket

5/9/2008
Swing State Democrats Say Hillary Best For Top Of Ticket

Over a dozen members of Congress wrote to other Democrats touting their support for Hillary, saying she is the strongest candidate to have at the top of the ticket in the fall.

The text of the letter is below.

Dear Fellow Democrat,

We are writing to you because of our shared belief in our Party’s principles and our commitment to ensuring that we have the strongest possible nominee to lead our ticket against John McCain and the Republicans in November.

The decision about who to support to be our Party’s nominee is not one that any of us should take lightly. We haven’t. But, after giving this important decision a great deal of thought, we are convinced that Hillary Clinton has the vision, skills and commitment to make the changes our country needs. As Democrats who have run and won in competitive Congressional districts and battleground states, we believe that Hillary is best positioned to successfully lead the Democratic ticket in districts and states like ours around the country.

As you know, Hillary has racked up victories in bellwether states like Ohio, Pennsylvania and now Indiana that are absolutely vital to winning the White House and maintaining our Congressional majority in the fall. Hillary has won the big battleground states by connecting with voters whose support we must have to win the general election. Her victories in Pennsylvania and Indiana were all the more impressive after being outspent by as much as two or three to one.

Pennsylvania was not just a victory for Hillary Clinton. It was also a wake- up call for superdelegates, forcing us to ask ourselves two essential questions: 1) Which candidate can carry the magic 270 electoral votes to win in the fall? 2) Which candidate is most likely to help our fellow Democrats in down-ballot races? We believe the answer to both of these questions is Hillary Clinton.

On the first question, Hillary has shown she can win the all-important battleground states like Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida even while being outspent. This speaks to her ability to connect with voters we must deliver in the fall, including blue collar Democrats who can sway this election as they have in the past.

On the second question, Hillary has won rural and suburban districts which we as Democrats must carry to maintain our edge in Congress. Of the fifteen districts rated “toss up” by the Cook Political Report, Hillary has now won ten. Of the 20 districts we picked up in 2006 that had gone for President Bush just two years before, Hillary has now won 16. She is strong in the places we must win to hold and expand our majority.

This is a historically close race. The candidates are separated by a mere percentage point or two and the path to victory for each candidate is the same: win in the upcoming states and secure enough pledged and automatic delegates to get to the number required to win the nomination.

The race now turns to the remaining six contests where the focus will be squarely on the economy. Voters in our states and across the country are voting on issues that affect them, their communities and their children’s future. We believe that they will decide that Hillary is the candidate who best understands those issues and has the best solutions to address them.

We Democrats are justifiably proud of both of our candidates, and if Senator Obama is our Party’s nominee, we will enthusiastically support him. But our responsibility is not to choose simply to support the eventual nominee; it is to help select the nominee who is best for our party and best for our country. Our choice is clear: Hillary Clinton is that candidate. We believe she should be your choice as well.

Thank you for consideration.

Sincerely,

Rep. Michael Arcuri (NY-24)

Rep. Shelley Berkley (NV-01)

Rep. Marion Berry (AR-1)

Rep. Henry Cuellar (TX-28)

Rep. Kirsten Gillibrand (NY-20)

Rep. Gene Green (TX -29)

Rep. John Hall (NY-19)

Rep. Darlene Hooley (OR-5)

Rep. Kendrick B. Meek (FL-17)

Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones (OH-11)

Rep. Silvestre Reyes (TX-16)

Rep. Mike Ross (AR-4)

Rep. Joe Sestak (PA-8)

[NJmaverick]

4. Why not poll to see how Edwards, Richardson or Dodd would do against mcLame?

[tledford]

70. YES! EDWARDS IS THE STRONGEST CANDIDATE AGAINST MCCAIN!

The GE is nearly six months away and the polling data you're trumpeting is worthless. If it is of any value, then:

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-6167424_ITM

We must nominate John Edwards because in the poll reference in the article above, it was Edwards 48%, McCain 43%.

I hope everyone understands the point I'm making -- what a poll now is showing about the GE is irrelevant.

[bowens43]

5. not this shit again.........

the race hasn't started yet. Once hillary finally sits down and shuts the hell up Obama will concentrate on McCain. It's hard to go after the big dog when you have a little annoyance like hillary running around yapping and nipping on your heals.

[OzarkDem]

33. Hillary already has an advantage against McCain

Why is it preferable to put a weaker candidate up against him?

[jettison]

71. Hillary is such a strong candidate...

... and yet she can't even beat the "heavily flawed" candidate, Obama. How does that make any sense at all? If she can't even beat "the weak candidate" then how does she win the nomination? Further, why aren't you arguing that Kucinich should get the nod? Afterall, he has as much chance as Hillary has now to get the nomination. Why keep wasting your breath?

And since when have these Gallup polls been right about anything at all? They mean less then the electronic paper they weren't printed on. Right now, you're either voting for Obama in the general, you're voting for McSame, or you're throwing away your vote (a nod to McSame). If you are partially responsible for not getting the democratic nominee elected then you are part of the problem and not the solution.

[SeaLyons]

6. Good question....I don't see any answers so far...

[tridim]

17. The answer certainly isn't to bash the hell out of our presumptive nominee..

because you're upset that your nominee didn't win.

The answer is to fight for our nominee.

[SeaLyons]

24. ummm, excuse me - but the primaries are not over....

[tridim]

26. No, but the nomination is.

[OzarkDem]

34. No, its not over either

[tridim]

45. Well then, you're ignoring reality. Get back to me when you catch on.

[jettison]

72. If it's not over, then put your money where your mouth is.

Want to bet? We can easily find an online escrow service and settle this without having to use "just words". You're chasing windmills right now, and your quixotic longings are just sad.

[SeaLyons]

25. ummm, excuse me - but the primaries are not over....

[OzarkDem]

28. There's no presumptive nominee

Its a draw. One has few more delegates the other has higher support against the candidate in public polls. :shrug:

[tridim]

31. Check out reality some time. It's really not that bad.

[rodeodance]

64. POT MEET KETTLE

[AZ Criminal JD]

83. Tell that to Obama.

I heard him today saying he is not the presumptive nominee. He was asked if he was. So I guess he is not in "reality" either.

[jettison]

74. No, it's not a draw at all.

Your spin isn't reality based. You're just dizzy on your spin. 150 delegates is not "a few more". And since when does a Gallup poll decide the nominee? Is that really how it works in your world? Call me when the shuttle lands.

You can either admit that you're wrong now, or admit that you were wrong later. Why not just rip off the bandaid now, bleed a litle bit, and then start to heal? You have absolutely nothing to gain via these posts, via your comments, or via your bias. Nothing whatsoever. Give... up... already. It's over.

[Mooney]

50. That's because the premise of the question is false.

The premise is that Hillary Clinton is a stronger candidate against McCain than Obama is. The OP is advancing this argument with the use of opinion polls, thereby implying that opinion polls constitute a more reliable forecast for the GE than votes cast or delegates won. This is the sole justification for the OP to characterize Obama as the "weaker" candidate. The OP is therefore implying that the primaries and caucuses held provide an inaccurate picture of Obama's strength as a general election candidate, but that opinion polls constitute the best, and only, accurate forecast.

This is a false premise. That's why you're not seeing a lot of answers. If the OP asked how Obama plans to win the election without the support of leprechauns, you wouldn't see a lot of responses to that either, because leprechauns don't exist, not because Obama supporters are too gobsmacked by the OP's argument to answer.

Sometimes, questions don't get answers because they're fallacious.

[dbmk]

7. Last time I checked 46 was ahead of 45?

[NJSecularist]

8. Go Hillary!

You still have plenty of support, Hill. Soldier on! :woohoo: :woohoo:

[jettison]

75. Where is she going?

[Arrowhead2k1]

9. What a lame argument this is.

Do you even realize how desperate you appear? :rofl:

[OzarkDem]

32. That we listen to voters and choose the candidate they prefer?

Perhaps you can tell us a time in history when Dems pushed the more popular candidate out of a tied primary race and still won the GE.

[Mooney]

51. It's not tied.

And Hillary's not more popular.

[jettison]

76. She's not the more popular candidate.

This is like the little boy who brags to his school mates, "My mommy is the smartest mommy in the world" without any reason or basis, and with that special air of naive cuteness. It's admirable that you adore her so, but deductive reasoning skills are akin to those of that little boy.

[Arrowhead2k1]

95. Tied?

:rofl: Apparently, you're not just desperate, you're delusional!

[The Ghost]

10. Is this the only thing that makes you feel better?

Start stumping for Obama, please, and enough with this sour grapes bullshit

[Doityourself]

11. It's over. Pull up a poll by Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny doesn't matter. It's over.

[OzarkDem]

41. Voters decide winners

Aren't Obama supporters concerned that their candidate is the choice of the news media and corporate America? Aren't they concerned that these entities are trying to choose the Democratic Party's candidate for them?

[Mooney]

52. Obama got more votes.

700,000 more of them than Hillary. So yes, votes decide winners, and Obama is the winner.

[OzarkDem]

97. The race isn't over

He needs to stop trying to push her out of the race, she has the support of half of Dem voters.

Work it out at the Convention, that's why we have them.

[Mooney]

99. He's said repeatedly that he expects her to stay in the race through June.

How is that pushing her out of the race?

[OzarkDem]

104. Convention

[jettison]

80. Deluded

"that their candidate is the choice of the news media and corporate America?"

Mrs. Pro Lobbyist herself, Hillary Clinton. You have the nerve to argue this point? The corporate media's choice is McSame, followed closely by Hillary. The corporate media loathes Obama because they cannot control him. I really am debating a 9 year old aren't I?

[Doityourself]

102. You mean like when the media and corp whores were all on Hills panties? Please...

The voters have decided they like Obama more!! Sorry you don't like and haven't digested the facts..but thems the facts and the truth.

[OzarkDem]

105. Yeah, that's why they've taken their funds out of Clinton's campaign

and put them into Obama's.

That's why they're using Obama to offer her a bribe to get out of the race vis a vis "helping her pay her campaign debts", even though she asked for no help and is refusing it.

Wake up. Corporate America has bought Obama and is trying to determine the Dem candidate against popular opinion.

[Doityourself]

108. Not. first off...Hill's leader McCauliffe said last night..there has been no offer and no

discussion on Obama paying her debt. it's also against the rules of the FECC and that's from your gals' camp. Point two, she stopped raising large amounts of money back in February after Super Tuesday, remember she loaned herself money. People stopped giving in large amounts because she had no strategy after Super Tuesday, blew 140+ million dollars on bullshit like hotel rooms, donuts and a host of other trivial crap. Meanwhile, Obama had a strong string of wins over the inevitable candidate that was no longer inevitable. Why keep giving to a dying and ill run campaign.

Btw, if corporate America bought Obama, then why has the large portion of his donations come in such small increments and large people counts. Sorry Obama is the candidate of the people. If Hillary was, she'd certainly wouldn't have been maxxed out amongst donors back when Jesus was a baby.

Stop blaming Obama for your candidates' lack of leadership, executive skills and poorly run campaign. As it has been said, it was the worse run campaign in the history of modern politics and will be studied for years to come on want not to do with 140 million dollars when you want to president.

[OzarkDem]

112. Bundling

he has dozens of lobbyists on staff who are experts at bundling campaign contributions from their corporate employers.

Re Obama paying Clinton's campaign debt - she didn't bring it up, wants nothing to do with it. So who started the rumor and kept it going? Obama's campaign and the MSM. Russert even did his part.

[MadBadger]

12. Haha! Clinton Supporters cant do math!

[kwenu]

13. Wow. You are so sad for posting this. Are any of those stats outside the margin of error?

Better yet how many can you point too where the difference in the poll is greater than 2 points.

This shows Obama is supercompetitive with McCain not the other way around. And haven't you heard? Mrs. McCain says her millions are none of your business and you won't be getting ANY of her records under ANY circumstances. Conflict of interest be damned.

Sorry to tell you but Hillary and her supporters are flat out of reasons to justify her candidacy. Now it's just embarrassing.

[featherman]

14. Or Obama leads McCain 49-42 or McCain leads Clinton 47-45

You do know this is a poll not a vote, right? And the concept of margin of error? And the concept of variable demographic proportion?

Polls like this are "for entertainment purposes" only at this point in the campaign.

But thanks for your concern.

[sabra]

15. from your OP: "Clinton is still more popular than Obama"

the first chart shows Obama @ 48 and Clinton @ 46...

[dbmk]

19. Yeah, and Obama is ahead on the second one too. :)

[dbmk]

16. Once people calm down and get to grips with Hillary not being the nominee

They will start answering Obama instead of McCain, as their conscience tell them they must, and the numbers will be fine.

[OzarkDem]

38. Yep, just drink the Obama/corporate news media kool-aid

and everything will be just fine.

No thanks, I prefer democracy.

[jettison]

82. You prefer Democracy

In your brand of democracy, we overturn the will of the voters, throw out the election results, and we just choose Hillary. You don't believe in Democracy. You believe in a monarchy.

[ShortnFiery]

18. Slightly better - barely a statistically significant result. And just a weekly snapshot.

:eyes:

[OzarkDem]

36. No, its a moving average

Are you familiar with those?

[ShortnFiery]

87. No, I only tested into and excelled at a Ph.D level Experimental Design course.

Oh yeah - I certainly know TRENDS. This is NOT. :evilgrin:

[ProSense]

20. Hillary is

unelectable

[YOY]

21. Go to Taco Bell.

Ask for a plastic fork.

They will give you plastic forks for free at Taco Bell.

It is time to put a fork in Hillary.

That fork is free.

Use the free fork.

[greiner3]

44. They actually razed the one in town;

However, it is due to reopen soon. Maybe by May 20th? I'll get a fork then.

[graycem]

22. And yet

she can't break 50, not even on her best day, and not even when her best day is aligned with his worst day. Luckily, the campaign against McCain hasn't even begun to be waged and those numbers are pretty flawed to suggest they are not is simply wrong. Wait until his "war for oil" campaign ad is front and center to all the voters, not just those paying attention in this primary. McCain is toast. Not even good toast. Crispy, overcooked, burnt toast.

[OzarkDem]

29. and Obama can't beat her against McCain

Maybe its time Dems let the voters choose our candidate instead of the news media.

We have a winning candidate already, why do we need to push her out of the race?

[ProSense]

35. "We have a winning candidate already" Note: Hillary is losing

She can't beat Obama. Her beating McCain is a BS argument.

[OzarkDem]

37. Its obvious we don't have a winner yet

and repeating it over and over won't make it so.

In Dem Party history, has the party ever allowed the news media and the primary challenger to wage a propaganda and libelous smear campaign against the strongest Dem candidate to get them out of the race?

[graycem]

88. And yet

she can't beat Obama. I don't understand your logic. Hillary saying she's better able to beat McCain is not equal to proof that she's better able to beat McCain. She should've known she'd have to beat all of our primary candidates first. :)

[sfam]

39. I'm more interested to see a Gore vs McCain poll...

If we are forced to get poll results about people who won't be our nominee vs McCain, can we at least put a person in we all like?

I bet Gore would do well against McCain. Anyone know how Edwards fares against McCain now?

what about Bon from U2? Not American you say? He has about the same chance as Gore, Clinton or Edwards of running against McCain in the fall, so as long as we're gonna run useless polls, why not Bono?

[OzarkDem]

40. So you prefer the weaker, corporate/media chosen candidate?

That's your decision, but don't expect the rest of us to go along with it.

[sfam]

67. You mean Gore? I don't consider him a corporate/media chosen candidate...

Again, if you're going to create fantasy polls with fantasy candidates against the Republican nominee, I would prefer someone we all like.

Now if the question is between the chosen Democratic nominee, Obama, and the Republican nominee, I pick Obama. Why I'd care about race between what is now a fantasy nominee, Clinton, and McCain, I'm not quite sure...

[last_texas_dem]

101. What are you even talking about?

Yeah, the media just *loved* Al Gore when he ran in 2000; he's obviously their preference. :eyes:

Sorry if you're trying to make some other point that is going totally over my head, but if you are it's not at all clear based on your post.

[habitual]

42. this, of course, all changes once we have ONE nominee to unite behind. n/t

[JimGinPA]

43. Bottom Line

Face the facts!

[OzarkDem]

46. You're letting corporate America and the news media choose your candidate

Sorry, but Dems never win when that happens.

[JimGinPA]

58. You Mean The Media Chose Obama For Me...

The candidate I went to see at a town hall and then a rally, who I donated to, phonebanked for, canvassed for, voted for and spent the day of our primary on GOTV? Those tricky bastards from the news media really pulled a fast one on me, declaring the winner of the most delegates, most contests, most popular votes and now the most superdelegates the presumptive nominee didn't they?

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

48. umm.....

IPSOS: Obama 46, McCain 42. They must've just polled African Americans, huh?
Rasmussen: Obama 47, McCain 44. They must not've asked any non-college educated whites, right?
CBS NEWS: Obama 51, McCain 40. They obviously just polled lazy people.

calling it "faux racism" is racist. enjoy your candidate.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

[book_worm]

53. Looks like Obama is ahead of Hillary and McCain (very little difference)

Give it up or are you going to end up not voting at all?

[OzarkDem]

57. Sorry, no. Hillary is ahead

[PresidentObama]

61. Can't be ahead in the GE when you're so far behind in the Primary process.

Sorry.

[AZ Criminal JD]

84. She is not far behind at all. She has won most of the contests since Feb. 22.

Sorry.

[PresidentObama]

54. Clinton, the nominee? Not so much!

[Leopolds Ghost]

59. Fake numbers. Notice how Gallup numbers are ALWAYS dead even, year after year after year? Wake up

You are being played by the media and ballot theft.

[lligrd]

60. How's She Going To Win When She's Not Even In The Running?

So much for that poll!

[rodeodance]

62. k&r

[Hippo_Tron]

66. The difference is statistically insignificant, especially with so many undecideds

[The Night Owl]

68. The Gallup graphing software uses a racist algorithm.

:sarcasm:

[Douglas Carpenter]

69. but Hillary is NOT going to win the nomination! It REALLY is that simple.

If by some far fetched and mathematically improbably chance she did - most of the country will rightly or wrongly (it really does not matter anymore) believe that she stole it.

I'm not some big Obama fan. I don't think Sen Obama is going to save the world. I think he like Sen. Clinton or Sen. McCain will largely carry on politics as usual. Frankly, I think all this "Change" talk from his campaign is a bunch of bullshite. And I don't know whether or not he will beat John McCain.

But he WILL be the Democratic nominee.

"You don't need a weather man to tell you which way the wind is blowing."

[OzarkDem]

73. Simply because the media says so?

That's the false premise Obama supporters are basing their argument on. Its certainly not base on popular opinion.

[Douglas Carpenter]

79. because mathmatics says so. The media is an extremely fickle lot

when it comes to their silly campaign analysis. For Sen Clinton to win the nomination at this point - she really would have to steal it. And frankly I don't believe she would do that.

[bvar22]

92. "because the media says so?"

No.
Because the MAJORITY of Democratic voters say so.

[Thrill]

77. YAWN......Kerry up 12 points on Bush at this time in 04

[Upton]

78. Give it up, Obama is now the presumptive nominee

what are you gaining by posting divisive nonsense?

[AZ Criminal JD]

85. Even Obama has denied that.

Follow your Leader.

[Kahuna]

89. You're not comprehending those graphs too well. 1. Obama is polling

ahead of hillary. 2. Obama is polling ahead of McCain. Duh.

[aquarius dawning]

90. Polling data this early out is irrelevant...unless it supports Obama. nt

[haymakeragain]

91. I'll take my chances with Obama.

He's gonna deliver. November is a long way off.

[bvar22]

93. You DO raalize that the polls you posted....

contradict your claims?

Facts are stubborn things.

[milkyway]

94. Too bad for Clinton the nomination isn't decided by polls about a hypothetical election six months

in the future.

Too bad for Dukakis they didn't just award him the presidency when he was up 17 points in the head-to-head poll.

Letting the people decide in the voting booth can be such a nuisance.

[OzarkDem]

98. Let's decide at the convention, then

[Kahuna]

103. Fat chance. nt

[OzarkDem]

109. Sorry you don't support the Democratic Party

and our democratic process for choosing presidential candidates.

Maybe another country would suit you better.

[Jawja]

111. IT'S OVER.

:hi: