Still Can't Help Laughin Sometimes At The Arrogance Or Cockiness Of Some Obama Supporters.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

He's kickin her ass!!!!! He's whoopin her! Hillary sucks! Obama blows her away!

So dramatic, but so not ground in reality.

No, with all that Obama is, with all the hype, with all the mystique, with all the momentum, with all the electricity and charisma, he hasn't come close to kicking her ass.

He's ahead by less than 5% in delegates. He's ahead by only a little over 1% in nationwide PV. Sorry, that ain't close to an ass kickin. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

Fact is, even with all that was on his side in the 2nd half of the primary season, with all the momentum, charisma, electricity, excitement, magnetism, hyped up words, and with all the slander his supporters throw around at Hillary as if she's the worst candidate ever, he will be winning the nomination not by an ass kicking, but rather by the skin of his teeth. After all that, after it's all said and done, that's the reality. By the skin of his teeth.

So please, all this "he's kickin her ass! Hillary's a loser!" hogwash crap just makes ya look a bit silly if you're repeatin it.

By the skin of his teeth.

Still, I say good for him!

[BlooInBloo]

1. However you want to characterize "inevitable candidate" to "certain loser" is fine by me.

[Egnever]

24. I was going to respond to the OP

but you did it well.

[Adelante]

45. Ditto nt

[MonkeyFunk]

49. but only her enemies ever

said she was "inevitable". She never did.

[yodermon]

63. Dubya never said Iraq was an "imminent threat" either. n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

67. I don't know what that's supposed to mean

but the fact is, it was her enemies who consistently pushed the "ineveitable" point. Her campaign didn't.

[Prophet 451]

130. Not strictly true

Granted, I don't think teh Hillary camp ever actually used the word "inevitible" but virtually everyone outside her campaign, both her enemies, friends and (theoretically) neutral bystanders did.

[tabasco]

94. H. Clinton: "It'll be over by February 5th."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saBU6ux0hsQ

You were saying?

[unlawflcombatnt]

102. Exactly

Just another of the many false statements from the Obama camp.

[SeaLyons]

2. K&R

[bowens43]

3. He pretty much kicked her ass.

He was an unknown who came out of nowhere and beat the most well know politician in the country.

Has they started even , I would agree there was no ass kicking but he started way, way behind. Fact is that hillary made the mistake of showing the American people exactly who and what she is. The American people rejected her.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

5. Spell Check Please.

And no, he didn't. But thanks for the laugh! :hi:

[bowens43]

13. yes, he did.

sad that you are reduced to spelling flames

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

22. Couldn't Even Pull Off The One Sentence, Huh.

And no, he didn't.

[Egnever]

27. Wow how low we have sunk

let it go.

[The_Counsel]

53. What The Hell Does It Matter Who Kicked Who's Ass...?

...the fact remains that Senator Obama will be the nominee. End of story.

Even members of the Clinton campaign are speaking in terms of WHEN she gets out, not if.

Go ahead. Spell-check that if you like.

And then, when you realize how silly that approach is, latch on to your next argument: that Obama hasn't yet gotten 2025 delegates. Or 2206. Or 22 million. Or whatever. The point is he's more likely to hit that number than Hillary is. It WILL happen, though.

It's okay to be disappointed, or even enraged, when a dream dies. Taking it out on Obama or his supporters isn't the answer, though. Just tryin' to help...

[Teaser]

65. OMC, you're better than playing spellcop

.

[U4ikLefty]

119. No, he is not. n/t

[sabra]

17. David Gergen: ""She was the inevitable nominee and I think they misjudged what they were up against"

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hLPqTxd4Fe7e5EymHU-kTUgweRDQD90K081O0

<snip>

David Gergen, former White House adviser to Presidents Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Clinton, said in an AP Broadcast interview in San Francisco, "She says 'full steam ahead,' (but) her problem is that she's running out of track."

"She was the inevitable nominee and I think they misjudged what they were up against," Gergen added. "Along comes this phenomenon named Barack Obama and upsets everybody's calculations. The real problem in the (Clinton) campaign was that they weren't adaptable, they were not able to change game plan right in the middle once it looked like they had a real fight on their hands.

[Doityourself]

96. No Shit! As John Edwards said..."He came out of nowhere!" It's a butt kickin' indeed..she had years

head start! No Decades...

[jgraz]

109. Also, Could You Please Capitalize Every Word Of Your Subject Line?

Otherwise, OMC will get confused.

[endarkenment]

6. You would have fewer moist akes if you spell checked.

[americanstranger]

9. I read yesterday that she had a 20-point lead on him a year ago.

Now he's 2 points up.

While I try to make it a point not to boast or use terms like 'ass-kicking' when describing this primary, a 22-point turnaround in a year ain't no small thing.

- as

[endarkenment]

4. Gosh I really haven't seen those posts all over the place.

I suspect that perhaps you are exaggerating the pervasiveness and content of these alleged ass-kicking posts. Then again I don't read everything here so you might have a point.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

15. Even The Overall Tone Of Some Represent That.

With as put on a pedestal as Obama is here, and as completely dragged through the mud shamelessly as Hillary is here, he's only gonna beat her by the skin of his teeth. That's the point. You'd think by the tone and attitude that some put forth that he's like kicked her ass upside down and sideways. In reality, it's by the skin of his teeth.

[endarkenment]

33. Another ridiculous overblown batch of hyperbole

"With as put on a pedestal as Obama is here, and as completely dragged through the mud shamelessly as Hillary is here"

But you have now gone from a specific complaint about a specific characterization of the pro-Obama/anti-Clinton posts to a new revised claim that 'the overall tone', in your mind, matches your original complaint.

The only real disparity here is that there are more Obama supporters and fewer Clinton supporters. The post content from each side has included a lot of nasty crap. My own subjective impression is that the Clinton supporters here have been far nastier and far more delusional than the Obama supporters, but that is most likely a subjective distortion on my part, plus as she has lost and they are few in number and have been here for a long time, if accurate it is somewhat understandable.

[NC_Nurse]

7. It was in my state. That's good enough for me.

:D

I am just glad that our operation here in NC was effective. We busted ass right up to the end. Esp.
with the whole Wright circus all over the media. We refused to be discouraged and kept up a solid
GOTV effort. I'd say it paid off VERY well. :)

As long as he's the nominee, I'm not concerned by how much. I just hope we win the GE this time.
I'm tired of disappointment!

[SurfingAtWork]

8. The degree of ass kickery, or lack thereof is moot

The fact that a relative unknown managed to pull off the biggest upset in modern political history is the bigger story.

It is kind of like a community college football team beating the Patriots.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

21. Soooooooo Not True.

In this case, his being relatively unknown was one of his biggest advantages in the end of it all. Some were just itching for a new, fresh, charismatic face to rally behind, no matter who it was. Obama fit the bill. And your football analogy was quite dumb and not even remotely transferable.

[SurfingAtWork]

28. I think it is ironic that you made a post pointing out Arrogance and Cockiness of Obama supporters

But I'm sure the irony is lost on you.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

34. You Probably Think Lots Of Things That Aren't True.

Sorry to hear that.

[countingbluecars]

10. Arrogance and Cockiness?

I've seen it on both sides. Threads like this don't help.

[Jersey Devil]

11. wiped the floor with her, put a hurtin' on her, opened up a can o whoopass on her

He beat her, so what the hell difference does it make by how much?

[MonkeyFunk]

50. because many here make the mistake

of believing their own hype. He did not demolish her, she is not wildly unpopular, and it doesn't do Obama or the party any good to pretend that's the truth.

[Waya]

12. As of last January - Hillary was the sure winner........

.......the mood in the Nation, yea, it's gonna be Hillary, no doubt about it - sure fire win, just a formality really. And then here comes zObama out of the left field, freshman Senator of Illinois, first term not even half done - and he creams her, against all odds, against her name recognition, standing in the Party and her entire machine. Given the odds - yea, he kicked her ass and I feel for her - that must sting.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

26. By The Skin Of His Teeth.

With all he had going for him, by the skin of his teeth.

Saying he creamed her just makes you look dumb.

[Waya]

35. Skin of his teeth, my a$$......

...given what he was up against - HE CREAMED HER.....

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

39. By The Skin Of His Teeth.

Try and come back to reality sometime. You're welcome here.

[Waya]

42. Ok.... by the skin of his teeth, then,......

........if it makes you feel better about Hillary's loss.

[Orangepeel]

47. Obama did have a lot going for him

Most notably, a more efficient and effective campaign and a message that resonated. Good for him, skin of his teeth or no.

[cali]

84. He beat a formidable candidate with a much vaunted political

machine, not to mention a popular ex-president husband and over 150 SD endorsements before a single vote was cast. That's quite an accomplishment, no matter how you look at it. Hillary had far, far more going for her to begin with than Obama.

[Romulox]

14. Obama supporters get more nervous every day that the SD don't end it.

They could've ended it yesterday, or the day before, or the day before that. They haven't, and it has people scared.

[FrenchieCat]

20. Why? Because they are affording Hillary her dignity......

seem like you would approve.

Unlike the Hillary campaign might have you thinking, it ain't about humiliating a party member.

[Romulox]

23. Nonsense. They are hedging their bets and holding out for payola. nt

[Evergreen Emerald]

104. oh you crack me up!

Dignity? You have been vilifying Clinton for months, calling her every awful name and re-defining her as evil so you can hate her even more.

Dignity? That is so far from reality that it makes me laugh.

[DefenseLawyer]

16. Did it ever occur to you that if Hillary hadn't run such a shameless campaign

she might be held in higher esteem? Speaking of shameless, what is the "slander" against Hillary Clinton of which you speak? Pretty strong words, but then bombast is always your specialty.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DefenseLawyer]

44. I have seen a lot of "off-base" opinions

and flawed assertions, but not a lot of slander. "Hillary killed Vince Foster". That's slander. Of course that slander was pushed by a Hillary supporter, not DU.

[Occam Bandage]

18. The Diamondbacks edged the Yankees 4-3 in seven close games.

They were World Series champions just as much as if they had swept.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

31. Agreed.

But if the DB fans ran around saying they kicked the Yankees asses, they'd look a bit irrational and moronic too.

[Lerkfish]

19. well, you ARE the expert on arrogance.

have you checked out this thread yet?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5934337&mesg_id=5934337

a lot of your clinton supporter comrades are threatening to vote republican if their candidate doesn't win. How is THAT for arrogance, eh?

[cbayer]

56. What about it?

There are a couple of posters on that thread that say they will sit out the election, many who say they will vote for the nominee and not a single one that says they will vote Republican.

Who in their right mind would respond to that OP anyway with the two of you piling on every Clinton supporter that answers.

[SoCalDem]

25. She is kicking her OWN ass..and doing it quite effectively

Of course she's gotten some help along the way..The Clintons seem to have an oral fixation, as does everyone around them..

They gleefully blabbed about the "strange garb" picture of Obama..
They gleefully blabbed about the Reverend
They gleefully blabbed about the "elite/bitter/clinging" comments
Their supporters gleefully blabbed about Obama's drug use, about the "luck he had in being black"
Bill gleefully blabbed about the Jesse Jackson comparisions, and now happily stirs prejudice in the twilight of her campaign

They run their mouths, and end up kicking their own asses..nifty trick

[ProSense]

29. Here:

Two messages from Hillary

[Forkboy]

32. You're an Obama supporter. You're cocky. You're arrogant.

Maybe not so much on this topic, but all three descriptors still fit you, do they not? :shrug:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. Fuck Yeah!

And I'm also still an asshole. :)

[Forkboy]

51. Well alright then.

:D

[U4ikLefty]

121. Awesome, I can finally agree with something OMC posted.

[bluesxtreme]

37. Seems to go both ways... pretty silly if you ask me

nm

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ian_rd]

41. It's the first time a black man wins the nomination for president. Did you really think it would be

easy for this to happen? A landslide?

[woolldog]

43. book suggestion:

[SammyWinstonJack]

55. ...

:wow:

[butterfly77]

46. Obama is...

still :kick: :kick: :kick: her ass

[JuniperLea]

48. I really don't care who gets the nom...

I'm just sick of Dem bashing.

Most of all I'm sick of the "Yay team" mentality so eloquently described by the OP.

This is not a fucking football game, we don't need to do this stupid shit. We don't need to revel in someone defeat, we don't need to do all this neener neener bullshit.

I'm sick of all this.

I call an ass-whipping a baseball game of 20 to 1. This is NOT an ass-whipping by any stretch. Not so far anyway.

[Kittycat]

52. Why do you harp on Popular vote. It doesn't matter - Pledged Delegates Matter

You can only count popular vote if every contest was a primary, and they aren't.

[shaniqua6392]

54. Too bad he can not win the GE without winning over her voters.

We may not have to worry about whether or not he can live up to the rhetoric and promises made. Hopefully he will not treat her supporters, which represent half of the Democratic Party, like Obama lovers on DU do. If so, he is screwed in November. And won't it be hilarious if he has to choose her as VP in order to win over the voters he has yet to bring to his side? Heads will explode here. Boom!!!! LOL!!!:rofl:

[niyad]

90. he really pissed me off with his arrogant "all her supporters will

come over to me, none of mine would go over to her"

that, along with his "excesses of the 60's" comment, his "prayerfully" comment, and his support for abstinence education, his remark about how he would run things (a very hands-off approach), give me pause, as did the way he handled the whole rev. wright thing (sorry, asking us to believe he had NO idea what the good rev was preaching for the 20 years beggars belief) sorry, obama supporters, but your candidate of choice is NOT the second coming, he is a man, a politician, and not the miracle worker some of you seem to think.

[shaniqua6392]

91. I can't wait to see what really happens when/if he wins the GE.

Some have put him so high on a pedestal, they are bound to be disappointed. I have even seen some here compare him to RFK, JFK, and MLK. What the hell has he ever done to deserve that honor at this point? I have seen some post that they heard him speak on t.v. and they were brought to tears! WTF?? I will never worship a politician like that. That is what the Republicans did with Bush and look where that got us. Hitler anyone? We should be on their asses constantly demanding that they show us results. I don't need rhetoric. I need action. I take a wait and see attitude on all of this and I have a sick feeling we are being scammed. Maybe I am just too cynical when it comes to politicians. Time will tell.

[Catherine Vincent]

57. LOL! Good one OMC!

But the Obama supporters speaking that way should be careful because if Obama doesn't win against McCain (which I hope he does), McCain would win by a larger margin that he has over Hillary. Repubs will be saying that McCain kicked Obama's ass and they know they will not like hearing it!

[ProSense]

58. Ass-kicking metrics:

Contests won: Obama 32, Hillary 16
Contests won by 30 pts or more: Obama 12, Hillary 1
Superdelegates since Super Tuesday: Obama 106 to Hillary's 14.5
Superdelegates since March 6: Obama 21, Hillary 1.5

[oasis]

59. Many won't feel so cocky in 2010 while patroling Iranian districts as McCain's army draftees.(eom)

[highplainsdem]

60. Some (not all) Obama supporters seem to have a sports-fan mentality

so they over-identify with him and see this as a game where the narrowest of wins is still a great victory, and they're going to strut, chant, and throw things at their opponents.

I'm not sure I saw anyone here point out that his NC "landslide" was pretty much by the same margin you'd expect given the percentage of the black vote he's getting and the higher percentage of black voters in that state than in others where the results were much closer. It was completely predictable and didn't show any great increase in support for him. This has been a very, very close race all along.

I remember someone here trumpeting about what a great triumph Guam was, for God's sake, though Hillary's ridiculed for anything less than double-digit leads.

I've never seen anything like the irrationality of SOME Obama fans.

I want to make it clear I don't mean all of them. MOST of his supporters are great people who support him for rational reasons.

But there does seem to be a strong streak of irrationality among some Obama supporters...and before you accuse me of being racist or rightwing for saying that, take a look at what Glen Ford -- executive editor of the Black Agenda Report and co-founder earlier of Black Commentator -- has to say on this subject:

http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=537

http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=586&Itemid=34

This black progressive journalist -- who doesn't think Obama is a real progressive, or interested enough in black issues -- refers to Obama mania as a "strange mass psychosis" with "zero tolerance for criticism of The Leader." He points out that fans are fanatics, they're crazy - "folks who will assassinate you for hinting that their favorite performer is no longer a hot commodity. Obama-maniacs are more vicious, having convinced themselves that the hopes and dreams of The Race are perfectly embodied in The Candidate."

He believes both white liberals and blacks are projecting their hopes and dreams onto Obama, with precious little evidence from Obama's own record and positions that he shares those dreams and will fulfill them.



To get back to the sports fan analogy -- I have the impression from a lot of messages here that many Obama fans, the noisier ones, believe they're automatically cooler just because they're his fans.

And I think that over-identification is why so many of them are particularly upset that his close competitor in this race is an older white woman. Hillary isn't cool. She's a very smart policy wonk, but she isn't cool. Obama fans can't stand the thought of her beating someone who looks like Obama. After all, Obama is their Tiger Woods, as at least one of them pointed out here. So you get attacks on Hillary's appearance, her clothing, and simply the fact that she's an older white woman. You can't have an older white woman beating the Tiger Woods of politics. That would make the fans who over-identify with him less cool.

And this is also why I believe many of them are so upset with the idea of a unity ticket.

[Lucky 13]

61. A win is a win, even if only by one vote.

This whole argument of "it's so close!" doesn't work for me. A win is a win is a win. Elections can still be decided in this country by one vote. That's democracy for you.

So by saying Barack is only winning by 5% of the delegates means HE IS STILL WINNING. Even if he only ends up with ONE more delegate than Hillary, that is enough to win. And the Hillary supporters need to accept that.

"Close" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades as my old grand-pappy used to say.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

70. Never Said He Isn't Winning.

Holy missed the point...

[Lucky 13]

82. Let me say this another way...

It is mathematically impossible for Hillary to OVERTAKE Obama in delegates. He would have to be hit by a stray meteor just before he inevitably reaches 2025. He is LESS than 200 delegates away and should pick up that number easily. Once he hits that number it's over. Even HUCKABEE knew it was time to leave then.


It's hard to pin Hillary's side down on an ANY argument because they keep changing their spin so frequently.

"It's about delegates!!" - Obama is ahead in delegates and he WILL reach the 2025 needed just by keeping his name on the ballot.

"It's about superdelegates!!" - Obama is now leading her in superdelegates and it is trending BADLY for her. People are jumping ship quick and that will only add to his lead.

"It's about popular vote!!" - well that discounts the states where caucuses are the method and that is UNFAIR. You want to tell Iowa that their caucuses don't count? I sure don't. The truth is each state has the RIGHT to choose their method of candidate selection, so unless you want to argue against states' rights, that argument goes NO WHERE. And if she is dumb enough to argue against states rights... then have at it. The funny thing is that he's ahead in popular vote too and will continue to be.

"It's about electability!!" - BULLSHIT. Winning the larger amount of delegates IS electability. If you aren't able to win the delegate war, how can you reasonably argue that you are a more electable candidate? And how can you PREDICT who will be more electable in a race that hasn't even really begun? Because of POLLING NUMBERS? IN MAY? 1) We don't elect ANYONE by how they poll we elect our candidates by VOTES and he's gotten more of them. 2) it's too early to have a good handle on who can beat whom by how much. MONTHS ago, Barack had little to NO probability that he would have made it this far. How did that turn out for you?

"But what about MI and FL?!" - Bullshit again. She should have voiced any and all concerns about those states BEFORE she signed the pledge. Period. A compromise was offered to her last week re: Michigan, giving her the MAJORITY of those delegates, but she rejected it out of hand because they still want Obama to get NOTHING. The man's name wasn't on the ballot at the request of the PARTY WHOSE NOMINATION HE IS RUNNING FOR. Failure to accept a FAIR solution proves that she's not interested in what's FAIR. She's interested in what gives her an advantage.


I don't know what the next argument is. I can conjecture though:
At the end, Hillary will INEVITABLY not have been able to catch up. Obama will be ahead in the one thing that matters - DELEGATE COUNT. But Hillary will argue that it is "SO CLOSE" that there needs to be a brokered convention. BULLSHIT. If, after all the primaries are over, even if Barack is only ahead by ONE DELEGATE, she SHOULD concede. Ahead by one vote at the end MEANS A WIN. But she won't do that. She will drag this on and on and on... to no one's benefit but her own - and really not even that because she is DESTROYING her reputation. Truth or fiction, reality or perception - she is coming off as RACIST to a lot of people. If I was innocently talking and someone pointed out that something I said could be construed as racist, I think I would immediately be mortified and try to explain what I meant more clearly. She apparently doesn't seem to care that people are perceiving her as racist and continues on with the same rhetoric.

But I digress. All she and her supporters are doing is muddying the waters with arguments about delegates vs. superdelegates vs. popular vote vs. electability vs. Michigan vs. Florida vs. "it's so close" vs. brokered convention.

Try to confuse people all you want. In the end it wont matter. Barack will be ahead in delegates. The party will enforce the rules, as they should. Barack will be our nominee and she will fall into irrelevancy with the Clinton legacy's blood on her hands.

[CaptJasHook]

120. Damn that was My te Fine!

:toast:

[Lucky 13]

135. Thanks!

:toast:

[skipos]

62. It is more intelligent than saying "the tide is turning" or "Hillary can still win" etc. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

64. "Close" only counts in horshoes and hand grenades. He whipped the Clinton's asses.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

71. No, He Didn't.

And you look like quite a moron by claiming such.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

72. Get back to me after the convention when winner Hilly is crowned.

And, you like like a mindless sycophant when you claim the Clintons somehow put on a good show while running a literally shitty campaign that relied on racism, red-baiting, and playing to the lowest common denominator.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

78. Oh You Silly Little Goose, Do You Mind Pointing Out A Few Things To Me?

First, can you point me out where in the OP I inferred Hillary would be crowned?

Second, can you point me out where in the OP I said that the Clintons put on a good show?

K? Thanks.

[yodermon]

66. Obama's Kicking Hillary's Ass by the Skin of his Teeth, then! n/t

[zulchzulu]

68. Let's see your math that shows how she can win the nomination

It's about 2% chance at this point. Winning 32 of 47 states, being nearly a million ahead in the popular vote, having an insurmountable lead in delegates and now leading in superdelegates and having $40 million on hand as opposed to be $20 million (or more) in debt...

I'd call that kicking someone's ass.

[emilyg]

69. I get my laughter fix here daily and

to learn new 4-letter words from the Obama supporters.

[AllexxisF1]

73. Ok...

How would you categorize a Junior Senator from Chicago with little to no money beating the HUGE Clinton machine and THE LOADS OF MONEY they had when this whole thing started?


Seems like an ass kicking to me. In fact it's downright amazing.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

74. true that!

[Levgreee]

75. Skin of his teeth my ass.... he was favored to win the nomination about 70-30 after Wisconsin

He had a winning stretch of about 12 states, many by very large margins, if you don't remember. Hillary in comparison has had only smaller victories of little consequence... in that although they gave delegate boosts, that did not change her strategic position.

When you put the presumptive nominee on the ropes halfway through the process, yeah, you kick their ass.



The proportional delegates makes it hard to build up a lead, but Obama did just that. That is why although his lead may look small in numbers, it actually gave him very high mathematical odds, about 70-30 or 80-20 after Wisconsin.


Mathematical odds is the only TRUE metric of how significant someone's numerical margin is in an election, since all other standards may vary.

[ProSense]

76. Ass-kicking metrics, part 2:

But Obama won decisively in North Carolina and narrowly lost in Indiana, and since then has gained 23 superdelegates to Clinton’s net of 1.5.

That Obama has been able to accomplish what he has is an incredible thing when one steps back to think about it. The New York senator had many of the advantages, including:

(a) Name recognition: At the start of this race, the Clinton name was the most famous name in Democratic politics. Hillary and Bill Clinton had sky-high approval ratings among Democrats. Obama, himself, called Clinton the “default” choice for many Democrats.

(b) Money: Clinton transferred in $10 million from her Senate campaign and had seemingly every major Democratic fundraiser behind her. No one thought Clinton would be the one outraised and in debt.

(c) The Democratic Establishment: From the DNC calendar to superdelegates to even Bill Clinton, Clinton had them all. Again, no one though Clinton would be the one behind in superdelegates.

link

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

79. Less Than 5% Delegate Lead, Little Over 1% PV Lead.

No matter how much you want to stubbornly hold on to your deluded ideal, it doesn't change the race as it stands. As it stands, he will win the nomination by the skin of his teeth. :hi:

[ProSense]

83. From inevitable to losing and in debt. Contests won: Obama 32, Hillary 16. Ass kicking. Face it. nt

[Brundle_Fly]

107. closer to 9% on delegates

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

111. What Math Ya Usin For That One?

:rofl:

[Brundle_Fly]

115. O 1870 H 1698

100% = 2025 delegates.

1870 of 2025 = 93.5%
1698 of 2025 = 84.9%

93.5 - 84.9 = 8.6% which is in fact closer to 9% than 5%


and yes, that is math...

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: 10 fiddles.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

122. That's The Most Retarded Math I've Ever Seen.

Are you for real with that?

:rofl:

There have been 3568 delegates appropriated so far (yeah, ya know, 1870 + 1698 and stuff). 1870/3568 = 52.4%. 1698/3568 = 47.6%. 52.4 - 47.6 = 4.8% = < 5.

My god how embarrassing for you.

Your example has to be some of the most warped logic I've ever seen.

And no, that's not math. That's called someone who has a completely wrong concept in their head and embarrassed themselves by sharing it.

[Brundle_Fly]

127. well that was rude.

sigh.

[Beacool]

77. Hey, don't forget to mention that even with all his money

and outspending her in some markets 3 to 1, he still can't close the deal. The SD will give him the nomination, but plenty of us who have supported the party for years and who have enough means to matter (read good fundraising ability) will not forget how she has been treated by the party leaders.

The Clintons revived the party and between the two of them raised $100M for other candidates (including Obama) from 2001 to 2006. Hillary alone raised $51M in that same period of time. So, now that there's a new kid on the block the Clintons are not needed anymore? Well, we'll just see about that.....

[jonestonesusa]

108. Obama has earned good money from hardworking supporters...

In Clinton-Land, it is considered a good argument against an opponent in the same party to criticize their fund raising advantage, even if that opponent energizes large segments of the party base, brings in hundreds of thousands of new voters and small donors, and helps continue the strategy of the DNC to compete for local, state, and national offices across the country.

Thanks largely to Obama, the motivated activists on the Democratic left, and New Democrats challenging Republicans in formerly red states, Democrats will make noise in this election in states such as Virginia, Montana, possibly North Carolina and Colorado, and Republicans cannot even take for granted statewide offices in my home state of Nebraska, once a place where Republicans could consistently count on double digit wins.

And by the way, this OP pushes once again the Clinton talking point of "all Obama's advantages," a phrase akin to he's "lucky to be a black man." The OP intentionally minimizes the hard work, vision, intelligence, charisma, and political savvy that Obama has brought to his campaign, now on the cusp of a historic nomination for presidency. He started out as an underdog with "Hussein" for a middle name, and he has energized the majority of the Democratic party. Without having a former president for a spouse or national familiarity beyond name recognition, Obama blazed past Hillary Clinton in delegates, states won, and positive identification among both Democrats and Republicans.

Call it ass-kicking or skin-of-his-teeth: it's your choice. Any way you call it, Obama is poised to gain a monumental and historic victory, one that can be shared by Barack Obama personally and all his supporters who have given time, money, and thought to his campaign. Have all the pity parties you want for Hillary Clinton, no matter who wins the nomination or for that matter the GE, but Barack Obama has earned his support. The GE is a formidable challenge for either Obama or Clinton, but I'm proud to be an Obama supporter, because even if he loses the GE his energizing of the party is a benefit in the longer run.

[SeattleGirl]

80. And I can't help but laugh at the arrogance of some Clinton supporters.

I guess it works both ways, huh?

:hi:

[PretzelWarrior]

81. nice strawman

most people aren't saying that. you chose an argument not being made precisely because it is so easy to make and hard to defend against.

the real deal is....he is winning convincingly enough and seems to be on track to continue that path with daily announcements of super delegates swinging his way, etc. that it is effectively over.

what we are saying is it's just under a minute left in the 4th quarter of a football game. Obama is up by a touchdown and a field goal. Hillary has no time outs left and is on her own 5 yard line. Yet her team is continuing to take cheap shot hits at Obama and his team saying "hey, we're still not out of this thing so we're just trying to win."

[Bake]

85. And here's why this matters.

The Obama people who think the primaries constitute an ass-kicking, whuppin', etc. are the same ones predicting a LANDSLIDE in the fall.

A landslide AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN, FOLKS. Cockiness and "misunderestimating" the opposition will cost us the White House in the fall if we're not damn careful and wake the hell up. Do you really think Obama's going to carry all those states in the South that he "kicked Hillary's ass in" in the primaries? What about the Western states? Funny, but the ones where he LOST or barely squeaked out a win over Hillary are the very states that are the BATTLEGROUND states where the election will be decided: Ohio. Florida. Michigan. You get the picture.

Bake

[ProSense]

86. No, here's why it matters:

Hillary threw the kitchen sink at Obama, and after the dust settled last Tuesday, she lost NC by 16 pts and barely won IN, winning by less than 1.2 pts when she was expected to win by 10 pts.

If not for her divide and conquer strategy, many people would have accepted the reality of her losing the nomination weeks ago.



edited typo

[VotesForWomen]

87. true, and they think he's gonna 'kick ass' in the GE.

[Bensthename]

88. And what do you think?

Just curious.

[VotesForWomen]

128. i think that since he's BARELY winning the dem primary, the GE could go either way.

[David Zephyr]

89. OMG, OMC! You backed the wrong horse. Get over it.

Get over it already.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

93. I Backed Obama. I Still Back Obama. I Just Didn't Throw Away My Brain In Order To Do So.

[ruggerson]

103. I think most of us feel we backed the right horse

No evidence has emerged to change my belief that Hillary wouldn't be a better President than Obama. But, since that's not likely to happen, my vote goes to Obama. Regardless of how idiotic many of his online supporters are.

[D23MIURG23]

92. Considering the fact that she started with every advantage...

I'd say that this is an impressive feat. Maybe I'm the only one who remembers all the Hillary people posting polls in november and december with Hillary 20 points ahead.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

99. That Supposed Advantage Became One Of Her Biggest Downfalls.

It's amazing how limited some are in their ability to comprehend that point, to the degree that they've parroted that meme throughout this thread. Yes, she started that way. But she hasn't had that advantage for quite some time now. In fact, that advantage is what led her to take things for granted at first; a large part of why she started slipping. That advantage is also what energized a large part of the electorate into jumping in line with the new fresh charismatic face of Obama, because of the whole air of inevitability; also a large part of why she started slipping, and him rising. That advantage was one of words and not of reality. In reality, many were anxious to jump on the bandwagon of someone new and exciting, coupled with her early mismanagement by failing to recognize that could happen. Those two factors combined nailed her on Super Tuesday and in Iowa, and she's had no advantage ever since. Unlike many of you, I'm not nearly as impressed that he's overcome those supposed 'odds', and instead see the race as it played out for real. The media's early decimation of Hillary combined with Obama's charisma and simply being new, was all it took initially to start a movement and the momentum necessary for him to completely wipe away that inevitable candidate status. It's been quite some time now since then, and the fact that meme is still parroted is a bit perplexing.

The fact stands: With all that energizing force, all that excitement, all the money, all the ads, all the media exposure, all the hype, all the talent, all the words, all the phenom type atmosphere, in the end of it all he will win the nom by the skin of his teeth. That's admirable for sure, since Hillary is one hell of an opponent and one hell of a person to lay claim to having beaten. But it would still be by the skin of his teeth, not by an ass kicking. That's all I'm saying. The cockiness and arrogance displayed by some as to how much better than her he is, as if he's completely manhandled her during this primary season somehow or as if he's blowing her out of the water, is just borderline delusional. With alllll that he had going for him, with alllll the positive factors on his side for months, he's still only gonna win by a very narrow margin. Like I said, good for him. But that ain't no ass kickin any way ya look at it. Well; if you're rational anyway.

[D23MIURG23]

126. That "downfall" had to be exploited deftly by Obama

in order for it to manifest as such. Obama's excitement and energizing force were his creations; such advantages didn't appear for Edwards or Biden, and without Obama, Hillary probably would have wrapped the primary up by Super tuesday. Shouldn't Obama then be credited with the ability to run a successful insurgent candidacy?

I suppose I'm not really interested in whether this adds up to an "ass kicking" in the end. I simply don't think that "all that energizing force, all that excitement, all the money, all the ads, all the media exposure, all the hype, all the talent, all the words" should be dismissed away as though they weren't a function of Obama's ability. Similarly, Obama's lead has been very durable since before Ohio and Texas. None of Hillary's attempts to shake him have resulted in even a brief lead for her, so "skin of his teeth" would not be my description of choice for his eventual victory. It seemed as decisive to me as is possible against an opponent as dedicated and formidable as Hillary and in a contest this gradual.

[baldguy]

95. Why didn't Hillary wrap it up on Super Tuesday?

And why didn't she have a game plan in place for after if she didn't win big?

Why is she $20 million in debt?

Why are super delegates abandoning her in droves?

[mmonk]

97. What's arrogance? Stating her odds of winning are long now?

It's like Edwards said, the math is not in her favor. Then he mentioned he left the campaign once the math was clear to him he couldn't win. She can stay through, that's fine. However, it seems arrogance has had a home in the Clinton camp for quite awhile and I think most people would agree. And now this guy shows up and could deny her what is the Clintons'.

[unlawflcombatnt]

98. Right On

"He's ahead by only a little over 1% in nationwide PV. Sorry, that ain't close to an ass kickin. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
"

Exactly.

It's the Obamatrons that don't undestand math. The Great One may easily have lost the popular vote by the end of the primaries. Polls indicate Clinton will win 60% of the combined vote in the next 3 primaries in KY, WV, and OR. And if she gets most of the undecideds, she'll get far more than 60% of the vote.

Below is a copy of the polls and a summary from http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_delegate_count.html#upcomingstates">Real Clear Politics.com

[dave29]

100. Still, it's not quite a tie, either... is it

.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

112. Still, I Didn't Claim It Was, Did I.

[my3boyz]

101. Ha! He kicked Bill and Hillary's ass! She has NEVER been ahead since voting started!

How you like them apples?

[Straight Shooter]

105. He's got political capital! He's got a mandate!

Remember bush strutting his skinny ass out on stage for all of America to see his hubris?

Different party, same nauseating mentality.

[Brundle_Fly]

106. popular vote is actually a little over 2% @ 47.3% to 49.5%

oh and its closer to 9% on delegates, it's not less than 5%.

isn't 10% or better is a landslide, I guess your op is right it's not a landslide... He's less than 2% short of a landslide.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

113. And This 9% Comes From Where Now?

:rofl:

And though opinions differ, I include Florida (not michigan) in my calculation, since I consider it a legitimate election.

But please, I beg of you, where's your 9% coming from? Last I checked, 52.8% to 47.2% (pledged only) is little over 5%, and the actual delegate number is 52.4% to 47.6% or, genius, less than 5%.

Your math works just how exactly?

:rofl:

[Brundle_Fly]

117. Oh I didnt realize you were counting

the certified fake elections...
caucuses out too?

[Brundle_Fly]

118. and I will give the small states

1/3 a vote.


:rofl:

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: 10 fiddles, again

[file83]

110. Hillary is kinda sorta kickin' his ass!!!!

Well, almost. Just a little bit more... not quite there yet.

Maybe tomorrow.

Or not...

[yewberry]

114. You know, most of us aren't arrogant or cocky.

Most of us aren't hateful or racist or sexist. Most of us don't call fellow Democrats names. Most of us don't post flamebait.

And by us, I mean all of us, not just supporters of one candidate or another.

In my precinct, Obama bested Clinton 5 to 1. In my mom's county, across the country, Clinton beat Obama handily. Both camps are right and both camps are wrong in claiming any kind of sweeping victory.

So please, don't add to the hostilities and division here.

[rove karl rove]

116. ya he's barely ahead

but if he's successful in securing the nomination, he'll be a giant killer. Still, I think McNasty will rip him a new one in the general.

[stevietheman]

123. Enough. Kiss his ring. n/t

n/t

[Lord Helmet]

124. Giant.Pile.Of.Poo.

[Kokonoe]

125. Hillary gave it a run for her money,

we should at least know its in the books now.

It just wasn't in her repertoire,

Nobody can blame themselves for not trying.

[Prophet 451]

129. Yeah, some are getting a little carried away

I'm actually supporting Obama but it's fair to say that Clinton is/was a very strong contender and Obama is winning/has won by a fairly narrow margin. Both were great candidates (even if I dislike the direction HRC's campaign has gone recently) but the populace decided that Obama was slightly the better candidate. That's not a slight on Senator Clinton though.

[lojasmo]

131. Given her relative advantages....

This is an ass-kicking. You may not like the facts, but them's the facts.

[NJmaverick]

132. Mind Criminal, when did you sell out all your ideals?

In your profile you post the following ideals

<<It's all about integrity, respect, honesty, decency, open mindedness, fairness, and genuine desire to wish good upon all. That is why I'm a liberal.>>

When did you decide to discard those so that you could support Hillary? After all it's pretty much clear to everyone, Hillary does not represent any of those values.

[mohc]

133. When less than 6.7% of pledged delegates are left to decide

having a 5% lead in pledged delegates is a pretty daunting lead.

[ForeignSpectator]

134. "YAWN!"

Didn't read half the post and responded like I did... now I know how much fun that actually is!