Who is to blame for Hillary losing?

[Forkboy]

Last night there was a thread here saying that if Obama loses in the GE it'll be no one's fault but his own. I agreed with that sentiment, as did many Hillary supporters.

In another thread though there are many Hillary supporters saying her loss in the primary will be/is the media's fault or the fault of Obama's "smear" campaign.

I'm curious. If one can claim that Obama's losing in the GE is no one's fault but his own, can Hillary supporters admit the same about her losing this primary? If not, why does she get a pass for her mistakes but not Obama.

And to switch this around, why do some Obama supporters want to blame others if he loses the GE but also want Hillary to accept the blame for her campaign?

One can't have it both ways.

For the record, I believe either one would win in the GE, so anyone answering this by simply saying she or he will win anyways is copping out. ;)

[L0oniX]

1. Hillary

[WeDidIt]

2. Hillary

She's the one who hired Mark Penn.

[andyrowe]

3. Hillary

[Waya]

4. Hillary

[JTFrog]

5. Hillary

[Clark2008]

6. Hillary

[cliffordu]

7. Hillary

[LoZoccolo]

8. Hillary

[K Gardner]

9. Hillary

[donheld]

10. You

and only you :D

[Forkboy]

12. hehe

I'm a baaaad boy. :)

[Barking Spider]

11. Hillary

and her ego.

[AllentownJake]

13. Hillary

[Egnever]

14. Hillary

All she had to do was be herself

[MonkeyFunk]

15. Why does anyone need to be "blamed"?

We have two strong candidates who've both run good campaigns. Why the need to denigrate anyone?

[Forkboy]

20. I'm sorry you see this as an attempt to denigrate anyone.

I posit that you're not only missing the point, but being overly defensive, an understandable reaction around here, but one that is misplaced in this case.

The point is that both sides seem eager to do just what you're saying we shouldn't do. I'm just trying to see who is willing to be consistent. Note I addressed Obama supporters as well as Hillary supporters in my OP.

[MonkeyFunk]

27. Fair enough

maybe this thread wasn't about that, but there certainly have been plenty of others that were.

If Clinton clinched the nomination, I'd just say "Hard fought, well done!" to the Obama supporters. I wouldn't try to ascribe his loss to any sort of failing or assign blame. It just strikes me as silly and unproductive.

[Forkboy]

32. I actaully agree with that.

I think it is silly and unproductive, but as I said to AtomicKitten below I also think it's part of human nature to just that. I just want those people who do so to be consistent.

[Cosmocat]

24. I blame Barrack Obama ...

cause he beat her ...

Credit where credit is due ...

[AtomicKitten]

16. The Clintons themselves.

[Forkboy]

17. For all the ones saying Hillary....

Will you accept that in the odd chance that Obama loses in Novemeber that he will have no one to blame but himself? There's always a lot of finger pointing after a loss (gays and unions had that crap thrown at them last time around), so will you keep those fingers pointed squarely at Obama?

[TechBear_Seattle]

21. Hillary there, too

The more time Obama has to work against Clinton, the less time he has to work against McCain.

As for "blaming the gays," well, he is saying and doing absolutely nothing for us that can be used against us. Unless you want to count the way he (and Clinton, for that matter) keep telling us that our fundamental civil rights can and should be discarded when politically expedient, causing many GLBT people to rethink our committment to the Democratic Party.

[Forkboy]

26. I don't believe one can have it both ways, sorry.

The buck stops with both of them, and they both should shoulder the blame squarely in the event of a defeat.

My comment about gays being blamed is based on some of the things we saw here and elsewhere after Kerry "lost". Just a general comment on how I thought the blame other people game was wrong then, and will be wrong now. It really had nothing to do with Obama or Hillary personally, just an example of the people who like top blame others for the candidate's defeat.

causing many GLBT people to rethink our committment to the Democratic Party.

After what I saw in '04 after Kerry's defeat I wouldn't blame them. It was disgraceful.

[TechBear_Seattle]

40. Well, to be honest...

My "Hillary there, too" remark was just a snarky addition to the "Blame Hillary" crowd. :hi:

I agree that once the field is this narrow, it is the candidate and only the candidate who can win or lose the race. For example, it was Gore and not Nader that put Bush in the White House in 2000. That, and the 11% of self-described Democrats who voted directly for Bush.

[Forkboy]

44. Bingo!

:)

[AtomicKitten]

22. Kidding around aside, I choose not to blame anyone, but Obama WILL win.

A freakish opinion here on DU no doubt. :D

[Forkboy]

31. I can understand that, and that's not necessarily a bad approach.

But I do think blame will be given to whoever does lose (rightly), or assigned to various other culprits (wrongly). It's human nature. I just want that human nature to be consistent. ;)

[AtomicKitten]

43. no worries

I firmly believe once Hillary digests her defeat and bows out, all will be well in the universe and Obama can turn his game face to McCain. It is the excruciating wait wondering if she is going to pour gasoline on the party and light it on fire before finally throwing in the towel that has people nervous.

[L0oniX]

30. I'll blame the racists and the bigots.

[Forkboy]

35. OK. Will you blame the sexists for Hillary's loss then?

[L0oniX]

42. Not at all. My vote is not based on gender. Voting on the basis of gender is something the LIV'rs do

[Forkboy]

46. But you seem sure that others are voting against Obama based strictly on race.

Perhaps they just prefer Hillary over Obama for valid reasons and don't do it based on race, just as you don't vote based on gender. See what I'm saying?

[Egnever]

38. That remains to be seen

Clinton had everything going for her and blew it a number of ways . dysfunctional campaign , no plan after super tues, no consistent message, money troubles....the list goes on. While there were other factors contributing to her demise including a long string of good press for Obama at a critical time in the primaries, a large portion of her damage is self inflicted.

Obama has not lost yet nor do I think he will, in fact I think we are about to witness a history making landslide. However assuming he does lose we will have to look back and see what led to it.

In Hillary's case I think its fairly evident what caused it, and bottom line Hillary is responsible for most of it.

[Forkboy]

48. Fair enough.

I don't think Obama will lose either (nor do I think Hillary would have). :)

[TexasObserver]

18. Hillary

She has proved she is unworthy of being the Democratic nominee, she lacks the commitment to our core values, she can't handle money, she can't hire good people, and she makes terrible decisions.

Hillary beat Hillary.

[closeupready]

19. Buck stops with Hillary. She had so many advantages which she squandered.

And if you are a Democrat, she wouldn't meet you half way; only if you are a Republican.

[helderheid]

23. Me.

It's my fault.

[Forkboy]

36. By the power of Greyskull !!!!

:)

[helderheid]

39. I HAVE THE POWER!

[lastliberalintexas]

25. Mostly her fault, with a dose of Dem leadership tossed in

I think Clinton would have easily been our party's nominee if she had not voted for the IWR (even though she still would have had a few other votes which would have made me uneasy with her nomination). While I mostly blame her for her vote, just as I also blamed Kerry for his, I also still blame our party's leadership. They never should have allowed the damn thing to go to a vote, or at the very least rallied the troops better and explained to the American public why they would be voting against it. Daschle and Gephardt sucked as leaders, and we are still paying the price as a party.


At the same time, I find it very funny to read posts from certain former Kerry supporters who are absolutely brutal to Clinton about her vote. I know the general public's sentiment towards Iraq has changed a great deal since 2004, but I didn't realize DU's had changed so much as well.

[PassingFair]

28. Bill Clinton and herself.

She's stuck carrying BOTH of their baggage.

[ButterflyBlood]

29. Hillary

[Ichingcarpenter]

33. The vast Right Wing conspiracy, the vast Left Wing Conspiracy, eggheads, the gods

Reality, the truth, the lies, blacks, whites, DU, Caucuses, Big States, Swing States,
Obama, the press, SNL, The Daily Show, The Colbert Report, Editorial Cartoonist,
Women, Men, Me, You, the Stars, Olbermann, the Fates, Mrs. O' Leary cow.......... or
could it be


Hamartia and the Classic Greek Tragedy of the Clintons: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5931772&mesg_id=5931772

[cliffordu]

YOu forgot starr jones.

[maui9002]

34. How about Barack Obama?

Unfortunately for Hillary Clinton, she chose to run for President the same year as Barack Obama chose to run; from my perspective, most Obama supporters (the ones I know at least) didn't leave Hillary Clinton because they had fundamental issues with her, but because Barack Obama attracted them away. If Barack Obama is not in the race, I think Hillary Clinton beats Edwards, Biden, Kucinich, and all the other Democratic candidates. And in my view, it's a shame, not because I'm a supporter of Hillary Clinton, but because fate and circumstances led to a situation in which the first viable female candidate for President and the first viable biracial candidate for President both happened in the same Democratic primary--it's just unfortunate that two history making candidates ended up battling each other for the same nomination. And just to make the point even further, I think either would win against McCain in the general election.

[Forkboy]

37. Good and interesting points.

Thank you.

[Egnever]

Well said

However I think she still would have beat Barack were it not for the many blunders her campaign has made.

[DefenseLawyer]

41. I think she lost because Barack Obama was a more appealing candidate to many people.

I don't think Hillary can be "blamed" for that. She can certainly be blamed for their strategy and tactics, but ultimately I think it comes down to Obama being a better candidate, not anything she did or didn't do.

[Forkboy]

49. A fair approach.

I think Obama has tapped into something that none of the other candidates would have been able to do. Honestly, it hasn't hit me, but I'm well past being a little cynical so I don't count. :)

[DU9598]

45. Blame Iowa

We got a load of what she had for sale and said "no thanks". We proved to a lot of voters that she was not in fact inevitable.

[bobbert]

47. Thanks Iowa, It's all your fault

:)

[harun]

50. Her tactic of trying to ride the inevitabilty bus and being too conservative (n/t)

[Harry Monroe]

51. Hillary has only herself to blame for losing.

[emilyg]

52. Each candidate has themselves to blame - no matter what the outcome.

[Forkboy]

53. That's pretty much my sentiment on the matter as well.

I realized quite awhile ago that my own failings in life were no one's fault but my own, and while there can certainly be exceptions I hold most people to that same standard.

[Lucky 13]

54. There's enough blame to go around: Hillary, Bill, Penn, Wolfson, etc. etc.

Some of the STUPIDEST political blunders have been wrought by her team. But the WORST mistake perpetrated by her and her thugs has been the INABILITY to hear criticisms and adjust. MANY people have expressed to her dissatisfaction with her tone, delivery, or message. But instead of just tweaking any one of those things, she just TURNED UP THE VOLUME.

[Yukari Yakumo]

55. Hillary

For her own arrogance, ego, mistakes, and hiring a bunch of cronies and buddies as her core staff.