Why can't Hillary win Urban, Educated Voters?

[Quixote1818]

Hillary keeps saying Obama can't win White Working Class Dems even though he has won them in over 25 states. Hillary however positively can't win educated, urban voters, at least against Obama. Hillary fails to mention that part of the equation and Obama is too nice to point it out.

I think comparing the Democratic primary to the General Election is like comparing apples and oranges because most Dems will vote for both Democratic candidates but I thought this should be pointed out.

[Pirate Smile]

1. I wonder how many of these Democrats voted in the WV Primary?

"...in West Virginia, there are a lot of Democrats who did not vote for John Kerry (nor for Al Gore). Specifically, 30 percent of West Virginian Democrats voted for George W. Bush in 2004, which I'm pretty sure is the highest figure in the country."

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/05/clinton-wins-west-virginia.html

[Quixote1818]

3. Zell Millar Dems. Hillary's base! nt

[baldguy]

40. Exactly. Hillary is trolling for DINOs pretending she'll retain their support in Nov.

[k8conant]

5. Yes there are a lot of DINOs here in WV and they voted for Hillary today...

along with the crossover Republicans. I'm a real Democrat and I voted for Obama.

[MercutioATC]

2. In WV or in the country as a whole?

In general, rural America tends to be less educated than urban America.

In WV, only 17% of adults...rural and urban combined...have a college degree. Urban WV is less educated than most of the rest of rural America...and certainly less educated than the majority of urban America. Rural WV is off the low end of the scale.

WV is NOT a measure of what "white working voters" do.


That said, you're correct. Obama's base is more educated voters, but he has won plenty of states with high percentages of "working class" Dems.

[Quixote1818]

6. As a whole. W. Virginia is a classic example of a demographic that

Hillary tends to do well with. However, if Philadelphia or Indianapolis were in WV then Obama might have overtaken her.

[WA98070]

4. Usually we have the time to study the candidates and issues and can go beyond....

name recognition, sound bites, and negative lies.

How many of these people believe they'll get the 90's economy again.

I'm not elite..I'm lucky.

[Anderson Perez]

7. I assume she won even that group in WV

i think she won all groups there.

[Quixote1818]

8. Charleston is WV's largest city at only 50,000 people

It's mostly a blue collar, coal town.

[Petrushka]

14. Charleston is West Virginia's capitol city. ("...blue collar, coal town."? tsk!) (eom)

[candice]

9. I'm in that category and was too smart to fall for Axelrod's ad campaign...

Hope + Change (TM)...take a chance on my own aspirations!!! I almost choked. Yes, we can, but no I won't. Do you think I'm stupid?

I just laughed. This is Huffington Post (big former Republican Arianna--she pushed her hubby to run against Feinstein) Hollywood silliness territory.

It wasn't surprising that this is the rerun of Axelrod's (ad man) Hope+Change (TM) campaign. The original ad campaign got Deval Patrick elected governor of Mass., but the voters of Mass. (In spite of Teddy, in spite of Kerry) had voter regret and went for Hillary. Patrick's experience as a deputy something in the Clinton Admin. wasn't enough.

Change is kind of vague. It can be whatever you want it to be. Patrick's legacy may or may not be a few casinos. That is change you can take to the bank if you own a casino. If the casino is in your neighborhood, maybe that is change you oppose.

What counts is competence, judgment, and experience. Think of interviewing someone for your job. What qualities do you look for? If I had had a series of part-time jobs (the Illinois leg is part-time, which is why Obama could teach part-time) and was bored after one year in a related job (the U.S. Senate) would you hire me? What if it took me twenty years to figure out that Wright wasn't mainstream (Oprah figured that out rather fast; and imagine if Hillary had been a member of a Church that was trashed men?). Rezko's money was fine with Bama, and who gives a damn if his constituents are going without heat because Rezko is broke. Bama needed the money to run against Bobby Rush. It's all about Bama!

This is the most difficult job in the world. Bama wins caucuses that represent 2 % of the vote and AA voters who are 12% of the population, and states that are solid Republican. If the Democratic Party goes with Obama, then McCain wins!

Bambi + Judas = McCain

[GarbagemanLB]

12. I want the person who had the foresight to see the clusterfuck Iraq would be. Sorry Hillary.

[thoughtcrime1984]

13. You sure are bitter. A little bitter for my tastes, to be certain. nt

[Eurobabe]

18. Another one for the ignore list

I decided it was too soon to let the disruptors out of GITMO, they can stay there until August for all I care, unless they come around before then.

[sybylla]

44. Even in August, I'm not so sure

So many have discredited themselves with delusional, ignorant or outright idiotic comments not to mention the few who have been put on my list for their terribly freeperish behavior (fortunately most of them have since been banished).

If such demonstrations of intellectual ability are any clue, I'm just not sure their opinion or contributions on any subject should matter much to me - even the ones who formerly had my very good opinion and who I waited until the last straw to put them on my list. Perhaps they should just remain on ignore.

[Eurobabe]

20. Wow, yer just too smart fer all of us, aren't you?

What a pompous ass you are!

Get thee on my ignore list. Bai! :nuke:

[nichomachus]

23. Another Hillary supporter who has nothing positive to say about Hillary

and whose only tactic is to repeat smears against Obama.

When the only thing left in your bucket is mud, it's time to call it quits.

[cali]

28. competence, judgment and experience, huh? Hilly gets a failing grade

on the first two. She has demonstrated her abysmal judgment on the IWR, K/L and her vote against cluster bomb restrictions. Not to mention her willingness to bend over for bushco. She gets a big fat F on competence as well. She ran an epically bad campaign and she made an utter hash of reforming healthcare. As for experience, sorry she has all of 4 more years in the Senate than Obama, and he spent 8 years in the IL State Senate. Rezco? Please. Let me introduce you to Norman Hsu, Frank Giustra and legions of other sleazy hilly pals.

She's done. She lost what should have been a stroll. Thankfully we're not stuck with loser hill as our nominee.

[Warren DeMontague]

36. What counts is "competent judgment"... like voting for the Iraq War?

:shrug:

[TahitiNut]

49. "Change is kind of vague."

Wow! I must congratulate you for your in-depth research into bumper-stickers. Everyone knows that the sum and substance of every campaign is captured in a bumper-sticker or lawn sign - subject to the penetrating analysis of a genius like you.

:eyes:

[Renew Deal]

10. They're too smart to fall for her bullshit?

:shrug:

[thoughtcrime1984]

11. Tell him what he's won, Bob. nt

[SoCalDem]

15. People who are more highly educated do not fall for her crap?

just a wild guess :rofl:

and they tend to have read about her and KNOW that she's not "from everywhere" :)

she's a rich high-falootin' lah-dee-dah lady from NooooYork , with 2 very pricey houses and a l09M bank account :)

[Writer]

16. Because some - SOME - can afford to stick to vague principles to solve the nation's problems.

This is a wealthy person's "movement."

[mrreowwr_kittty]

31. Whereas others think a Gas Tax Holiday will help them.

I'll take vague over stupid any day of the week.

[burythehatchet]

42. I know. How do those wealthy people find time to caucus and work phone banks

and canvas in numbers that have never been seen before. I bet its beause they're wealthy, so they don't have to work. So they can do all that stuff.

I think you're ready for cable TV punditry.

[depakid]

17. She would in a general election against a Republican like McCain

The trouble is that Obama probably won't do nearly as well with the blue collar constituency- and that may well cost the Dems the presidency through the loss of Pennsylvania, Ohio and possibly Michigan and Wisconsin.

What a strange result that would be- the Republicans win the whitehouse and the Dems pick up 5 seats in the Senate.

[MonkeyFunk]

19. You don't understand the implications of the difference

Which group is more likely to defect to McCain? Urban, educated voters or rural, working-class voters?

[democrattotheend]

25. Urban upscale voters are swing voters too

Ironically, upscale suburbanites are a group that was courted by the DLC and the Clintons in the 90's, often at the expense of the white working class.

A victory in Pennsylvania, for example, requires heavy turnout in Philly and Pittsburgh, and it increasingly requires more of the Philly suburbs and less of the "Alabama in between". Obama won Philly overwhelmingly, and he won all of the suburbs except Montgomery, which he lost by 1.5 points. Clinton won Pittsburgh and the Reagan Democrat counties in the middle. Both upscale, educated voters in the Philly suburbs and Reagan Democrats are swing constituencies that help determine which way PA will go. Kerry won PA primarily on the strength of the former.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

32. Which was more likely to go with McCain in the first place?

Why the hell should we cater to those morons?

[Voltaire]

38. My sentiments EXACTLY

All we ever do in this country is mollycoddle and pander to the stupid. Time for them to get themselves wise, and time for us to show them how. But all we do is bemoan their lack of education. Until we take the time to fix it, we will always be political slaves to it.

Having said all that, Hillary Clinton should be ASHAMED of pandering to them and trying to pretend that she's a good ole' gal. But, what do Clinton's know of shame eh?

[anonymous171]

39. Agree 100%. All McCain and/or GOP 527's have to do is drop the "GAY/TERRA" bomb and her base is gone

[SOS]

51. It's 2008, not 1964

The winning Democratic coalition won't include WV. It won't include Ohio either. 2008 will be won by skillful campaigning with understanding of the huge geographical and generational shifts that have taken place over the past 40 years.

Go west, young man....

"To stay in the hunt in "Old America", the Democrats needed all Al Gore's 2000 blue battleground states, plus Ohio. Certainly Ohio seemed within reach, given its economic woes. But it appears the Democrats lost there to the cultural conservative line, with older, white voters and married women voting overwhelmingly Republican. Ohio's old Democratic labour constituency and large urban black population were unable to make up the difference. Nationally, however, Mr Kerry gained 90 per cent of black votes compared to just 10 per cent for Mr Bush, according to exit polls.

Still the greatest hope for each party's future lies in the fast-growing Sunbelt states of the southeast and west. Since 1988, 27 electoral college votes have shifted to these states.

At first blush, Sunbelt state growth appears to be fuelled primarily by younger Republican constituencies: white middle-class families along with affluent retirees. In Georgia, for example, more than 60 per cent of voting whites, suburbanites and households earning $50,000-plus favoured Mr Bush, according to exit polls.

Yet there are also Sunbelt battlegrounds which are the main hope for Democratic expansion in the growing "New America". States such as Florida, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado and New Mexico are not only receiving middle-class white suburbanites and retirees but large influxes of Hispanics and young, "Generation X" types fleeing the costly housing markets of coastal blue states such as California and New York. These groups are a large part of America's demographic future and natural constituencies for Democrats. Mr Kerry's strong showing with 18-30 year-olds - who made up only 17 per cent of all voters but voted 56 per cent for Mr Kerry against 43 per cent for Mr Bush - is a hopeful sign."

http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2004/1104demographics_frey.aspx

[aquarius dawning]

21. Funny how the people who need a Dem the least are the ones voting for Obama

[democrattotheend]

26. You could argue that African Americans need a Dem president the most

Since they tend to be poorer than whites as a whole.

[BlooInBloo]

29. *That's* a cute variant on the "they don't count theme" - kudos! +1 creativity points!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

41. Funny how people like this are the ones voting for Clinton

[Quixote1818]

22. Kick

[whatchamacallit]

24. Rhetorical question (nt)

[Cha]

27. Oh I don't know...

[PassingFair]

30. Because they are informed, they are watching, and they know what

...the letters DLC stand for.

[WA98070]

33. Her negatives are too high. We want change. She hasn't proven she is truly for change...

She will win this Demographic if she is the last choice.

We weren't for Obama to begin with but he is the best of what's left.

He is the most likely instrument of change left.

[Eric Condon]

34. Because according to Bill, those people "don't need a president."

Even among all the bizarre, legacy-tarnishing crap statements the Clintons have made throughout the campaign, that one (which he's made multiple times) tends to stand out, mostly in terms of how utterly baffling it is.

[Tesha]

35. Because we're "on to her". (NT)

[casus belli]

And what incentive is there for her to give education the funds it needs

to allow our children to compete in the global arena, if she benefits so soundly from the broken education system? It's worked brilliantly for Republicans. I always wondered why Republicans, the party of "personal responsibility", would always put education up on the chopping block first whenever they needed to trim spending. I guess now we know.

[BlueCaliDem]

45. Same disdainful tactics used against the freed slaves - no education so they don't get "uppity"...

... and smart.

That's probably why Big Dog immediately played the race card first chance he got. What don't understand is, why are there still blacks supporting them?

Barack must be a real thorn in their asses. Black AND smart. That just won't do...

[Warren DeMontague]

37. Because we're drunk on kool-aid lattes fed to us by our cult leader.

We got them at the drive-thru Starbucks in our Priuses.

[burythehatchet]

43. My Bichon Frise got hit by my Volvo.

:(

[stillcool]

46. I'm not "educated"...

although I did graduate from High School. I am a working class white person, so by all metrics I should be firmly in the Clinton Camp. I don't know what happened. I must have been adopted, and in reality I am an elitist, highly educated white person. I hope I can get my hands on that fortune that is rightfully mine, as an Obama supporter, so I can donate more money, buy Birkenstock's, and drink Latte's liberally.

[liberalla]

47. Interesting query... putting the shoe on the other foot

It's great to change your perspective from time to time! Thanks.

[GermanDem]

48. Because they realize

that Obama is all about the future, and Hillary is all about the past? And that the fact that the Clinton years were good years doesn't necessarily mean that it will be just same under her as president? Because they realize that she is absolutely hated by many people, no matter how good she actually is, and therefore has no chance of winning in the GE? Because they realize that she's an opportunist who will do whatever it takes to get elected? At least those are my reasons, and I would consider myself well-educated and urban... don't want to offend any Hillary supporters, just wanted to add my two cents...

[invictus]

50. Answer: Because Hillary is a neo-con and a Goldwater girl who "obliterated" any chance she had at ..

... at the nomination through the despicable, sleazy, racist, and dishonest antics that monster pulled during the campaign.

[Romulox]

52. A: Blue collar workers and white collar workers have different economic interests

Education (and to some lesser degree, race) is used by the MSM as a proxy for class, since we Americans have virtually no vocabulary for discussing the latter.

[Stop Cornyn]

53. It isn't Hillary inability to connect with urban voters, young to middle aged voters, or educated

voters that's her key problem; it's her failure to have obtained access to a time machine which would allow her to connect with PAST voters.