You'll calm down and vote for Obama in November because you are a loyal Democrat.

[SoonerPride]

Thank you for your support.

[AllentownJake]

1. Odd thing

West Virginia votes last night. No one on here. Edwards endorses Obama....defcon 4.

You may agree or disagree with what he did but it had an impact at least on here.

[muntrv]

2. ...And because you'll see that McBush is Chimpy's 3rd term.

[LittleBlue]

3. Yep, they must as Democrats support the nominee

Support of McCain is the only alternative.

[Oleladylib]

4. NOT A CHANCE

I cannot vote for Obama....Don't worry I won't vote for McCain either...

[Name removed]

8. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BayouBengal07]

16. Ok. Two things.

1.) If you can't vote for him merely on principle, I can pretty much understand that. That's the same reason we don't vote for McCain. It's our principles as Democrats. Although you could vote for the lesser of the two evils.

2.) If you can't vote for Obama because you'll only vote for Clinton, shame on you. That's a polite way of saying what I could say. Being a crybaby because your candidate didn't win is the height of political selfishness.

[complain jane]

25. Political selfishness

is coming on here demanding other people do things and berating them if your candidate is not who they want to vote for.

Party affiliation is not something that obligates me or anyone else to do jack shit.

[casus belli]

101. Then you get what deserve. n/t

[complain jane]

122. Or

I have a better idea. Maybe the Obamamaniacs on here could dial back the ugly, condescending aggression and grow up a little.

If the bizarre hostility on here toward all things not Obama causes us to lose the election, then the Obamamaniacs have gotten what THEY deserved and screwed us all in the process.

That is political selfishness.

[casus belli]

153. The problem is that you seem to think the aggression is one-sided.

Just because you're only on the receiving end of half of the nonsense doesn't mean the other half doesn't exist. The insults are as frequent coming from both camps. But any way you look at it...IT DOESN'T MATTER. As a Democrat, I MUST vote for our nominee. The stakes are simply too high for me to take my ball and go home if the primary doesn't turn out the way I had hoped. I think most rational people realize what's at stake, so you'll have to excuse me if I have little patience for people who withhold their vote as if it's some cherished object we should all grovel for. We're all adults here. We shouldn't have to describe what's at stake in order to get someone to see that voting for the Democratic nominee in THIS election is a must if we are to begin the process of undoing the damage of the last 8 years.

[complain jane]

189. For the most part, it is.

The stakes are simply too high for me to take my ball and go home if the primary doesn't turn out the way I had hoped.

For your information, I didn't vote in the primary because I liked both candidates. So to reduce what I and many others have been saying about the behavior on this board of the more overzealous and obnoxious Obama supporters to "the primary not turning out the way I had hoped" is something I have little patience for as well.

I think most rational people realize what's at stake, so you'll have to excuse me if I have little patience for people who withhold their vote as if it's some cherished object we should all grovel for.

And you'll have to excuse me if I have little patience for your condescending tone and your apparent belief that my vote is to be taken for granted by you. It's not. It's my choice. That's called Democracy.

[Terran]

192. for the millionth time...

what does the behavior of a few people on an internet forum have to do with your decision to support or not support the Democratic candidate? So *many* of you HRC people spout this and it's just insane. Please try to separate your sadness at seeing your candidate fail from the pressing need to defeat the republicans. It's not about you or Hilary, it's about taking our country back. This bizarre crybaby attitude is what will lose us the GE.

[complain jane]

199. LOL

what does the behavior of a few people on an internet forum have to do with your decision to support or not support the Democratic candidate? So *many* of you HRC people spout this and it's just insane. Please try to separate your sadness at seeing your candidate fail from the pressing need to defeat the republicans. It's not about you or Hilary, it's about taking our country back. This bizarre crybaby attitude is what will lose us the GE.

You know, I'd love to take your post seriously but it's hard to when you need to paint me as an "HRC people" and dismiss what I'm saying and instead respond to some straw man argument.

I've said a million times I never voted in the primary because I liked Edwards, Hillary and Obama. So save the tired excuse that the complaints about belligerent Obama supporters are sour grapes, ok?

If I'm telling you that the overzealous fanaticism and demands that I support Obama are revolting, try and wrap your head around that, instead of insisting on changing the subject to Hillary losing.

My vote is my choice and not something for you or any candidate to take for granted.

[Terran]

209. Fine

I don't care who you voted for or didn't for in the primary; sorry if I mistook that aspect of the situation. But I'm not making any "demand" of you. I'm simply pointing out, since you want to talk about selfishness, that *if* you consider yourself a Democrat, or indeed any stripe of left-leaning/liberal/progressive, then *you* are being selfish in using the perceived hostility of Obama supporters as an excuse not to vote for him. That is an issue SEPARATE from winning the goddam general election. Complain all you want, I don't give a crap, have a ball. I happen to be an Obama supporter, but I would say the exact same thing if the shoe was on the other foot. Every Democrat needs to just get off their high horse and vote the democratic candidate, no matter who that is. If it were Hilary, I'd still vote for her. I DON'T CARE WHO IT IS, I WOULD STILL VOTE FOR THAT PERSON. Your principles, and certainly your feelings of being "revolted", are not more important than removing republicans from the White House.

[Colobo]

37. Obama will win you over.

[Two Americas]

198. that is exactly backward

In a representative democracy the goal is for us to win politicians over, not to have politicians win us over.

I agree that the focus of the Obama campaign has been to win people over, and it has been a brilliantly run sales and marketing campaign, combined with tent revival fervor, and Amway rally "think positive" enthusiasm. Many of us are not being won over by that - separate from how we will vote in November - and a much higher percentage of the general public will reject this approach.

[Road Scholar]

44. Did you think this was about women's liberation??

[DearAbby]

54. You deserve exactly what you get...

that is all...thank you.

[AZBlue]

62. Hate to tell you but not voting for Obama IS voting for McCain.

[Name removed]

173. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sfaprog]

248. I'm orange, too.

Way to combat the argument. Do you think restating the opponents position in a pie-chart belittles it enough that you don't need to respond to it? Very adult.

[Rene]

75. I agree...Not a chance. Hillary gets my write-in.

[Guaranteed]

114. For no reason at all!

WHOOOOHOOOO!!

:woohoo:

[Buzz Clik]

183. That's a vote for McCain. And a vote against Roe v Wade. And a vote against Democratic principles.

[dkf]

87. I swore up and down that I would NEVER vote for John Kerry...but I did.

After all, I've never missed a vote. I do believe in performing my civic duty.

Hey, maybe you can vote for Bob Barr! :rofl:

[VotesForWomen]

113. well i didn't. nt

[Terran]

193. Gee thanks

You helped Bush get his 2nd term. Why the fuck are you posting on this forum?

[Milo_Bloom]

160. I didn't vote for Kerry for the same reason I wouldn't vote for Clinton.

[Beacool]

110. Ditto!!!!!

:shrug:

[npincus]

242. You won't vote?

Are you serious?

[silverweb]

156. Then you're a fool.

n/t

[iamthebandfanman]

210. id start looking into another party

cause if you dont like him, you arent going to like the direction the party is going to be going.

sorry you feel the way you do.

[Fox Mulder]

220. I wouldn't want to vote for Hillary if she was the nominee...

but I would've.

You should do the same thing for Obama.

[npincus]

241. right. cut off your nose to spite your face.

7 votes made the difference in Guam.

Had it been the other way, I certainly would have licked my wounds a bit, then VOTED for Hillary, trhe Dem nominee. If you don't support our Democratic candidate, you should leave this communtiy.

[gmudem]

250. So the Supreme Court isn't important to you?

Roe v. Wade is no big deal right? As much as I loathe Hillary, I still would have voted for her holding my nose. Because I am sick and tired of GOP rule of this country, and as right-wing as Hillary is she would still be slightly better.

And if you're from a close state then not voting for the Democrat is even more shameful.

[saracat]

5. Nope.

[Colobo]

38. Saracat, let's unite.

[saracat]

49. I am so sorry Katz but no, I can't betray my conscience. I am afraid your

candidate has no respect for me, and I do not care for him. I won't vote for mccain but i can't unite for someone I consider ethically challenged.

[SoonerPride]

53. Even if Hillary asks you to vote for him you won't do it?

She wants you to unite behind our nominee.

Vote for Obama.

[saracat]

55. Nope. My vote is MINE and I make the decision. Everyone else can do as they please.

[Cali_Democrat]

105. ...

[reggie the dog]

116. come on

My first choice was Kucinich. I cannot vote for him. Obama is better than McCain. You know that in your heart and mind. If for nothing else than supreme court nominations we should both vote for the Democratic nominee even though our preferred candidates did not get the nomination.

[complain jane]

131. Good for you

The more certain ppl on here insist I vote for anyone, the more turned off I am to the whole election anyway.

It's so ridiculous.

[anamnua]

130. Even if Hillary got down on her knees right in front of me,

tugged at my trouser legs, and pleaded with me to vote for Obama the answer would still be no,no,no,no,no...

[anigbrowl]

143. ROFLOL

Talk about mental masturbation...

[AZBlue]

63. If you don't vote for Obama, you ARE voting for McCain.

[saracat]

67. Nonsense, especially not in AZ. Our GE vote is meaningless.

[AZBlue]

70. It's possible AZ won't go to McCain.

Plus I'm working for Obama in other states too.

[saracat]

78. It is not possible but dream on. Not my problem.And so help me if he hurts the down ticket

races someone will have to be held to account!

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[anigbrowl]

145. Sure it's possible. It just means giving up your governor to run for VP

Napolitano outpolls McCain. Obama is within single digits of him. The two together could turn AZ blue.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

154. You know what, saracat? Vote for whomever you want. Or don't vote. I don't care.

Just PLEASE don't change your mind and campaign for Obama. I get the sense you'd do more harm than good.

[dorktv]

157. I know her in person. She would do a great job. She has been a very

stalwart Dem...staying in there when all seems lost.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

163. Not real stalwart right now, is she?

She's been dissing Obama and intimating that she'll support McCain for several weeks now. She may be a great activist, I'll take your word on it. But some Democrats seem to relish being in the minority, or maybe they're just so accustomed to it they can't adjust to being poised on the brink of taking over. I don't know if that's the case with saracat but it definitely is with a lot of Dems in AZ. All I know is we are at a crucial turning point in our country and the kind of negative energy she is demonstrating has no place in it. If the thought of Barack Obama being the nominee is so utterly depressing to someone that they are threatening to not vote on the Presidential spot (which is a vote for McCain) then I think they should remove themselves from the process for a while.

[dorktv]

164. Here is the thing-she has issues with the man. Instead of saying "well, what exactly are those

issues and how can I help you with them?" You instead imply she sucks as a Democrat and would be a gawdawful supporter.

This is a woman who got candidates to run in districts that no D would touch, that has walked in the heat, worked on campaigns before the Napolitano reign, who has been around a long time.

She has reasons to be bitter about her candidate losing and she has the right to refuse to vote for whoever she wants. And if she changes, she will of course be a good supporter and work hard for the nominees supporter.

Oh and she will never vote for Senator McCain. We in Arizona know why.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

166. As have I.

And numerous people on this site, as well as among the people she knows IRL I'm sure, have tried to help her with her issues with Obama. She rebuffs them. You'd think Obama was Newt Gingrich, from the way she talks. It's absurd. I don't care for Hillary Clinton for many reasons but I know she's light years better than McCain. I would never threaten to not vote for her, not even if she totally slimed her way to the nomination.

[dorktv]

168. "slimes her way to the nomination"

See that is the kind of thing that makes it hard to want to support the other person's candidate.

However, Saracat has issues with Senator Obama and frankly, I do to about quite a few of his policies. And of course if you want to only see the negative, you will see only the negative.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

169. I meant that hypothetically. nt

[dorktv]

170. Try to stop even saying it. Whatever you think in private about Senator

Clinton, it does little to build party unity to say such things.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

171. Does little to build party unity to threaten not to vote if Obama's the nominee. Just saying. nt

[dorktv]

172. The primary is not even over yet. She has not bowed out and even if she had

giving her people time to grieve is never a bad thing.

I would be saying the same thing to her supporters had she gotten the nom. Respecting others is key to winning elections.

[coyotespaw]

176. "time to grieve" ???

can we cut the melodrama, please? Nobody died, just another case of someone losing a political primary. It happens to tons of people every four years. Can the histrionics and get on with sticking it to the bad guys (that would be the Republicans, for those who still don't get it.)

[Two Americas]

195. many have died

People may be grieving what has happened to the party and to the country, rather than merely being sad as though their favorite sports team lost the big game - which you are trying to force onto them - and many have died and many are suffering as a direct result of the cowardice and betrayal by the Democratic party politicians. You may disagree with people about that, you may think that the solution to the problems in the country is something different than what others think, but it is demeaning and condescending to talk to them the way you are here. That is worsening the divide - in the name of unity, no less.

Many of us think that the problem is not merely the Republicans, but rather our weak and ineffective opposition party and the continual compromising on and betrayal of the traditional principles and ideals of the party. We think that the obsessive "focus on the Republicans" demands are not for the purpose of beating the Republicans, but rather for the purpose of denying and ignoring the weaknesses and flaws in the party, silencing any and all critics, and that it is those weaknesses and flaws that are actually helping the Republicans, not some lack of team loyalty nor insufficient mindless zeal. The relentless beating on dissidents is causing the divide, not healing it. You cannot ask people to give up their principles, and ridicule and mock them, and claim that this is making us stronger against the Republicans. It is what is making us weak.

"Unity" and "knuckle under or else" are mutually contradictory. Many loyal and good Democrats are uncomfortable with that contradiction, and many other contradictions that are surfacing now, and are resisting the demands for unity and loyalty - which is not loyalty at all, but group think and suppression of dissent. You can shout them down, run them out of the party, and dance in glee as you celebrate their defeat, but the general public will not knuckle under and that bodes ill for November.

[TexasObserver]

69. fortunately, we won't have to read your anti Obama diatribes soon

Every post is another shot whining about Obama. Your time for lambasting our nominee is rapidly coming to an end.

[saracat]

79. I haven't been posting anything about obama nor will I. Today I am just expressing my disappointment

in my former candidate. After this, I will retreat to silence. No reason to post.You folks don't need our money or support anyway.You have many folks to replace us.

[TexasObserver]

82. I remember your posts, and how you never let up griping about him.

It gets old. Every post, you complain about the party not going with your candidate, and now that your candidate has endorsed Obama, you're still pissed off and grumpy. Maybe you should consider the possibility the problem is not the world, but you.

[saracat]

84. Whaaat? The only thing I post is that I personally don't support him.

I originally supported Edwards.I am "complaining' about Edwards betrayal of his own policies at the moment. And I am entitled to.I worked hard for John only to be smacked.I am sorry my being offended doesn't suit you. Don't read my posts then.Or please put me on ignore.

[TexasObserver]

I already did.

Put you on ignore. That function is not working right now, however.

I'm an Edwards supporter, too, but unlike you, I understand that elections often mean switching to another candidate and going on. While the rest of us found a new candidate, you complained about losing your one, true candidate. Now Edwards has disappointed you and you're mad at him, too. Like I said, when the whole world is wrong, maybe it's you, not the world, that's got the problem.

[saracat]

91. And to some elections are just a "game" I took this too seriously.

And I took John very seriously as well. But you would be mistaken to believe that i am "alonre' in my disappointment. And as far as the world goes, aren't we supposed to be about "changing it" Isn't that what St. Barry is about ? Or are you saying that he is wrong if the world is different , or does not your theory apply to him but just to folks like me that disagree with him?

[TexasObserver]

96. I took my FIRST presidential election that seriously, too.

But then I grew up.

If you really care about what the Supreme Court does, you can't simply bail the first time your candidate loses. This is going on with or without you, and if you choose to sit on your hands, you've chosen to LET bad things happen.

Politics is a world of imperfect things, and when you expect too much of the people in it, you will be sorely disappointed. Obama inspires people and he seems to have the ability to pick good people and motivate them.

Your view of politics is very egocentric. It only exists to serve your emotional needs. Stay home or vote for Obama, whatever you choose.

[saracat]

97. Funny. I have taken every election I have ever voted in seriously and they have been many.

Egocentric you say? I have actively supported many issues having nothing personally to do with me and I am insulted that anyone would think otherwise. Odd no one says the Obama voters who vote for him simply because he is black are egocentric. They say that is an "idea whose time has come".

I know this is an imperfect world and I also know that I have no control over what happens and that no president will have much control over the SCOTUS. I am tired of that being used as a threat. Congress has to approve the justice nominees and no one who isn't a moderate is going to squeak by no matter who is Prez. Sorry but that is the fact. No judge with a significant paper trail in either direction is going to be approved and A Dem majority in the Senate will ensure that. It won't matter F***Kall who is Prez.

[Patchuli]

111. People are supporting Obama simply because

he is smart and he is capable. I'm disappointed that it need be any more than that. I supported Edwards too but that was not to be. Then I LISTENED to Barack Obama. That was enough to convince me of the best candidate. Kerry wasn't my favorite either in 2004 but I got behind him as the nominee. Bottom line, vote Democratic.

[saracat]

115. It is because I "listened" to Barack I can't support him and I am sad about it. Really.

[donheld]

175. "I am tired of that being used as a threat."

It's not a threat it's a promise. The next president will appoint two maybe more justices. We could get another Ruth Ginsburg or Antonin Scalia. Don't tell me it doesn't matter who the president is in that situation. I guess you really never have had the womans movement at heart if your going to let this kind of thing stop you from supporting the democratic nominee even if it isn't who you wanted. You can feel insulted all you like but your own behavior is the cause of that insult.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

155. OMG! That's right! She was an Edwards supporter.

Must suck to be her right now. I'll take it easy on her for awhile then.

[TexasObserver]

216. I carried on a conversation with her for a month trying to get her onboard

After Edwards got out.

When he got out, I was shocked, because I still thought he might turn it around and become the consensus candidate. But when your candidate gets out, you have to get on with it. Our goal is to have a Democrat as president for all the reasons we know that is better than having a Republican president.

I talked to her about that at length, but she never once got off the theme of how Obama just wasn't acceptable. You really can't do anything about those who claim to be Democrats but are only Democrats for the sole purpose of supporting one favored candidate. That's not supporting the concept of the party. It's supporting one's own egocentric view of all things. Life is about choices, and most of those choices are not the first choice we would make.

[Kittycat]

252. It sounds far more than egocentric to me.

The way she has and still speaks of JE - you'd think (at least in mind) that there was some 'relationship' there. Sorry - but it's beyond the norm, when a candidate has been out of the race for more than 3months, and one complains that their heart is still broken and feels as though they were just betrayed or slapped in the face, etc, etc, etc.

[cali]

117. this isn't all about you

but you never have understood that.

[saracat]

121. Maybe if more of us voted our concience we wouldn't be in this position.

It is about ME. Fundamnetally it is about ALL of us as individuals. One person,one vote and we have a duty to cast it with integrity and for a higher purpose.There is no higher purpose in my voting for a candidate in whom I do not believe.

[Terran]

196. I hope you never need to have an abortion

Because if McCain gets elected (and you will have helped him get elected), then you can kiss that right good-bye. Your vaunted "higher purpose" will have contributed to the enslavement of all American women.

[Buzz Clik]

186. Obama has no respect for? What makes you say that?

[Milo_Bloom]

161. Of course you will.

You have no actual objection to him based on reason.

Unlike those who refuse to vote for a war candidate, like Clinton, Edwards or McCain.... unless you only want to vote FOR a war candidate... hmmmmm

[Starbucks Anarchist]

185. It's hard to mark a ballot when your finger keeps wagging.

[iamthebandfanman]

211. then get out! n/t

[avenger64]

237. Nope dittoes. Nader.

I'm not going to have some vague 'hope and change' booshit forced down my throat because the MSM likes the narrative.

[npincus]

246. This is not "SOUR GRAPES Underground" it's

DEMOCRATIC Underground. Get off your high horse and support the Democratic candidate. How do you know Obama doesn't respect YOU, he doesn't even know you, does he? This is about issues, not your hurt feelings. I would vote for Hillary if somehow she pulls it out- even though I've been offended by the conduct of her campaign.

[VolcanoJen]

6. And staying home, or refusing to vote up-ticket, is in actuality a vote for McCain.

That kind of move would make Nader voters seem rational.

[Pushed To The Left]

52. The difference between those who won't vote for the candidate over a primary grudge and the Nader

voters is that at least the Nader voters stood for something. What they did was issue-oriented. As much as I disagreed with them and thought it was horrible strategy, I respect what they did a hell of a lot more than I respect the act of supporting McCain or not voting over a childish primary grudge.

[VolcanoJen]

58. Fair enough.

And, agreed.

:toast:

[BlueCaliDem]

107. Well said, Pushed To The Left. Very astute and insightful. Thank you. eom

[Marrah_G]

7. Most will vote for the nomineee. The alternate choice is scary

[MadMaddie]

9. Supreme Court Nominees baby, Supreme Court Nominees!!

[Ewellian]

18. Alternate solution:

bigger Democratic majority in the Senate.

[cici4691]

35. Exactly. McCain won't get anyone confirmed if they are ideologues

unless, of course, the DEMS decide to be enablers as they previously have with GWB.

[totodeinhere]

104. If Papa Bush could get Thomas thru a Dem Senate then who knows about any...

right wing McCain appointees.

(Disclaimer - I don't think McCain can win.)

[Pushed To The Left]

56. We need to take the Senate as well! What worries me was how easily Alito and Roberts got confirmed

despite there being enough Democrats to support a filibuster. Some Democrats even voted FOR those nominees! :mad: We need a Senate majority AND a Democratic President.

[Hippo_Tron]

77. Would you rather another Anthony Kennedy or another John Paul Stevens?

A Democratic Senate will get McCain to nominate someone right leaning like Anthony Kennedy. MAYBE if we're lucky we'll get someone a little more moderate like Sandra Day O'Connor. A Democratic President will get us another Stevens, Breyer, or Ginsburg. Maybe with a Democratic Senate we'll get another Marshall or Blackmun.

[Skip Intro]

19. Could you be a little more blatant?

Is that like some kind of bait you might think you have non-Obama supporters hooked with? Almost like a threat.

Of course, Dems will control the Senate no matter which candidate becomes the nominee.

And Senate approval is needed to seat a Supreme Court Justice.

So that bait really doesn't work.

[Beausoir]

10. Nope. I will never vote for a homophobic bigot. Not going to happen.

[SoonerPride]

11. Bigot?

I've known homophobic bigots, and Senator Obama, you are no homophobic bigot.

[SoonerPride]

12. Bigot?

I've known homophobic bigots, and Senator Obama, you are no homophobic bigot.

[jenmito]

15. Who are you talking about?

[Beausoir]

23. Two words for ya....Donnie McClurkin. Hired by Obama to pander to the bigot base.

You can try all you want to excuse that away.

Or...you can save your breath and realize that there are people of principle who will NEVER forget nor forgive that.

[jenmito]

26. 5 words for ya...Obama is not Donnie McClurkin.

Obama wants to give ALL the rights married couples have to gay couples who are in civil unions. Hillary's no better than Obama on gay rights.

[Beausoir]

32. No...he just hired him to do his filthy work. Save your breath. You can't excuse that away.

You support a guy who HIRED Donnie McClurkin. Paid him...cheered him on.

You get to carry that around.

[jenmito]

40. He didn't know the guy was going to say all that junk. He explained that and he now

has the support of many gay people and organizations. I'm not wasting my breath. I'd be breathing whether I typed this or not.

[Beausoir]

86. Obama hired an ex-gay clown to pander to his bigots. No question. Case closed.

You can't spin that away.

No true Democrat would EVER try to apologize for what Obama did.

[jenmito]

127. Obama is STRONGER on gay rights than Hillary. No question. Case closed.

You can't spin that away.

No true Democrat would EVER not vote for the Dem. nominee.

[Jamastiene]

30. Bingo!

I couldn't agree with you more. I'll never forget what the ex-gay bunch did to me and I cannot forgive them for it either. They certainly never apologized so forgiveness isn't even possible. Obama agrees with the ex-gay movement. I'm not voting for someone who believes that I should have been raped. I'm not going through that again. If I have to, somebody's going down, me or them, and I don't care which. I'd rather die than live on my knees and getting raped again. Not happening.

My mother and my aunt (my aunt just told me about an hour ago)already told me they are voting for McCain. Not leaving it blank. Not writing anybody in. They are voting for McCain. Reason: Obama has just belittled poor working class folks too much, hates white people, represents a minority of well to do trendy out of touch people who have no clue what it's like out here in rural America, and care about no one but themselves. That's very different than every other election I've lived through. My family never has voted Republican before in primaries OR general elections. It's certainly different this time. It's personal on so many levels for so many people for so many different reasons.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Marrah_G]

74. Personal attacks like that towards a fellow DUer are uncalled for

[kitfalbo]

61. MSM

Wow...
Have you listened to his speeches (ignoring the preaching nature of it) seen his actual policy idea's or do you and your family just watch MSM which gives you no news on real issues or the candidates policy's and just harps about white vote's and all those other link less buzz issues that seem to have influenced you and your family?

My breaking point when choosing between candidate's was not who they hired or what MSM said it revolved around the differences in policy between Hilary and Obama. In my case specifically Autism.

Truth is I probably blame mainstream media more than anything, but to buy into it when the facts are at your fingertips is pity worthy.

[casus belli]

102. The people most apt to want to take away your human rights

aren't voting for Obama. And so, you help them continue a long heritage of inequity. I'm sorry that you don't see how you are being self-defeating. But, if you think four years of McCain is better than four years of Obama, then I guess you get what you paid for.

[sfaprog]

249. Now THERE's an argument for not voting for Obama

:eyes:

[muryan]

17. McCain is the picture of tolerance

right?

I've seen nothing to suggest Obama was a bigot, and I know many of my gay friends are voting for him. Evidence?

[Colobo]

43. That's why you won't vote for McCain and will support Senator Obama.

[MadMaddie]

48. Who are you referring to as Homophobic bigot?

[Pushed To The Left]

59. How about a homophobic Supreme Court?

McCain has promised right-wing justices, which would tip the Supreme Court ALL the way to the right. A right wing Court is the enemy of all civil rights!

[AZBlue]

64. McCain would like to thank you now for your vote.

[Renew Deal]

72. Did you vote for Clinton or Kerry?

Never say never.

[unsavedtrash]

100. exactly

If she doesn't get the nomination I will be writing in.

[iamthebandfanman]

212. wow a baseless rant, heres mine

get out of our party.
please.

[npincus]

247. ...

[Double T]

13. Not to MANY hypocrite voters, the stakes are far to HIGH to misstep AGAIN.

[Danger Mouse]

14. This isn't helpful.

[Growler]

20. The smart Dems will vote Obama in November

nt

[complain jane]

21. Being told what to do

really makes me want to run right out and vote for him.

And it's not the least bit reminiscent of Bush supporters.

[complain jane]

22. dupe self-delete

...

[ginchinchili]

24. The reason I won't vote for Obama...

besides the main reason I haven't supported him from the start, which is that he lacks the necessary experience and qualifications to make a good president, is that I'd hate for Americans to come away from this election thinking that in future primaries it's best to choose inexperienced candidates. A lot of people have made that argument concerning Obama and that's scary.

[jenmito]

27. He has more experience in govt. than Hillary.

[ginchinchili]

31. When you talk about experience in this context...

you should be talking about any experience that could be pertinent to being president. Hillary's experience certainly trumps Obama's, but I'm not here advocating Hillary either.

[FredScuttle]

45. What experience does Saint Hillary possess?

The magical ability to dodge sniper fire in Tuzla while her husband is getting squeezer from a White House intern?

Experience you can count on........meh.

[DearAbby]

57. what experience does Clinton have?

please be specific.

[Arkansas Granny]

126. If you are referring to his time in the Illinois Senate, that could almost

be referred to as a part time job, if it's anything like most state senates. In fact, according to the Illinois Senate calendar, they are only in session for about 52 days a year. I don't dismiss that experience, but I don't think it carries as much weight as experience in the U.S. Senate dealing with issues at the national level.

http://www.senatedem.ilga.gov/calendar_year.asp?qYear=2008&type=year

[democrattotheend]

42. Have you thought about other qualifications?

I agree that Senator Clinton has a unique perspective on the presidency, having been First Lady, and that this would be valuable experience that serves her well as president.

At the same time, I think in the current Washington climate, too much experience might be as much of a negative as a positive. I am glad Obama decided to run now, before he became disconnected from ordinary people the way politicians inevitably do when they have been here too long. I live and work in Washington, DC, and I know enough about the culture here to know that if we want to get anything done, we need to change the culture and the way the government operates.

I also think that experience is one factor in terms of qualifications, but the presidency is such a unique job that nobody can be fully qualified for it until they've done it. Given the fact that so much of the details are done by staff, I honestly think experience in Washington is less important than temperament, judgment, and leadership capabilities.

One of the reasons the current president has been such a failure is his tendency to surround himself with people who agree with him and discourage dissenting opinion. When people from the intelligence community tried to tell him Iraq did not pose a grave threat, he did not want to hear it. He wanted the intelligence to match his objectives, rather than setting objectives based on the intelligence.

Obama, by contrast, goes out of his way to seek out dissenting opinion, wanting to hear and understand all sides of an argument before making a decision. I read an article recently by Cass Sunstein, a fellow law professor at the University of Chicago, that gave some good insight into how Obama would operate as commander in chief. I encourage you to read it before you go to the polls in November: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-oped0314obamamar14,0,7185898.story

Obama has also displayed the ability to broker compromises and get results, both in the Illinois senate and as a US senator. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html

Finally, while many dismiss inspiration as fluff, the ability to inspire is an important quality for a president. A president needs to be able to sell his or her agenda to the American people and to Congress, and Obama's speaking abilities as well as his ability to see things from multiple perspectives and show empathy even when he disagrees makes him well-poised to be effective in this regard.

So I hope you will read the articles I linked to and consider my arguments before deciding not to vote for him because you don't think he is qualified.

[AZBlue]

65. So you're looking forward to a President McCain?

Good luck with that.

[ginchinchili]

81. I'm not looking forward to any of these jokers being president.

I really don't think it matters anymore. Things are screwed up because we let them get that way and we're continuing to do so by supporting someone only because they promise us they'd make things different, i.e., because that's what Obama figures is the best way to get elected president. We just can't seem to objectively analyze things anymore. It's all emotional and what we think is best for us personally, rather than what is best for the nation as a whole.

[cali]

118. I couldn't possibly have voted for Abraham Lincoln!! My god, the man

had only a single term in the House. Your argument is spurious and shallow. It's not just about experience- and Obama has over 11 years in elected office. It's about judgment, temperment, intelligence, etc.

[Two Americas]

203. third party

Lincoln was the third party candidate. Lincoln was the protest candidate, the candidate for those tired of the waffling spineless Whig party, sick of the demands for loyalty, tired of the excuses and rationalizations; those who decided they were not going to hold their nose and vote for the lesser of two evils anymore, those who refused to be driven by fear and who rejected the "but you are just voting for the pro-slavery party when you vote third party!" arguments, those who decided to stand on principle and stop compromising, those who realized that "we need to go slow" and "we need to be practical" and "we need to work within the party" were all lies, and that we were NEVER going to get there the way we were going.

People voted for Fremont - at the cost of losing the White House for one term - and then stayed true and voted for Lincoln despite all of the same arguments from the Whigs that Democrats are now using on us.

And SCOTUS? The Taney court declared Black people to not be human beings. They had a SCOTUS problem then, too - a very serious problem. They did not let that frighten them and divert them from speaking out and standing up for what was right.

[backscatter712]

148. Even if that were true...

You might want to consider that Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld have the longest resumes in the Beltway.

Doesn't make them good leaders...

[iamthebandfanman]

213. you lack the ability

to have rational or good judgement so i dont think u should be in our party anymore..

if 4 more years of whats going on isnt enough for you, then you need to pack ur bags and dont let the door hit you on the ass. that goes for anyone who says they wont vote for him in the GE.

you can be a whiney baby all you want, but dont do it while your still a democrat.

[jbm]

28. "McCain won't help us, but he won't get us killed"

They're not my words, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I think they have a ring of truth. They're the words I hear from my fellow local Democrats in this area. Some of you will think it's racism, but in most it's not. It's the fear of inexperience that has them terrified.

[Danger Mouse]

29. Oh yes, he will get us killed.

[DU GrovelBot]

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This week is our second quarter 2008 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
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[cici4691]

34. Nope. I'm not on autopilot anymore...

Sorry. Well, I'm not sorry. The Democrats had my unconditional support for a quarter of a century. Now they don't. I'll vote down ticket but not for Obama.

[AZBlue]

66. Why are you voting for McCain.

If you don't vote for Obama, you are voting for McCain.

[emilyg]

106. Thank you.

[anigbrowl]

147. You're thanking a fake who had 51 posts and got a tombstone already?

The word 'gullible' springs to mind.

[TexasObserver]

36. That's true, except for those posing as Democrats who aren't really Democrats.

Once the poseurs are gone, there will be plenty of Hillary supporters who support Obama.

[cici4691]

41. 25 years of 'posing' to be a Democrat is a damn long time to pretend...

dontcha think?

[TexasObserver]

47. I'm trying to imagine the rational connection you think your comment has to mine

nope, not there

[aquarius dawning]

90. yeah, I've been posing as a Democrat for like 10 years now.

I pretended so hard that I even voted for Gore and Kerry. That's dedicated pretending there.

[dorktv]

158. Posts like these are really insulting to your fellow Dems who

for WHATEVER reason refuse to vote for Senator Obama.

There have been several thoughtul well written reasons for a person to change to Senator Obama. Try that instead of insulting people your guy needs in just six and a half months.

[eek MD]

39. Don't feel bad.... I wouldn't vote for Hillary.. :)

Perhaps she should pull a Lieberman and run as an Indy? It would suit her well...

[lumpy]

50. How sweet, after all the shit you guys have flung at Clinton and

her supporters you are dead wrong. I will be casting my vote for a better Democratic than Obama.

[SoonerPride]

51. His mother?

There will only be one choice.

Obama is our nominee.

Unite.

Even Hillary tells you to vote for Barack. What, are you masd at her now too?

[AZBlue]

68. McCain and the GOP thank you for your support.

[razors edge]

60. Resistance is futile.

You will be assimilated.

[aquarius dawning]

89. No I guarantee that I won't be.

[razors edge]

151. Good for you.

to each their own.

And good luck.

[BlackVelvet04]

71. .................

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Darth_Kitten]

73. Yeah, just fall in line, free will is so overrated.

n/t

[SoonerPride]

139. We're on the same side of the fight

You know that.

So does Hillary.

[wvbygod]

76. many Democrats will be writing in Hillary Clinton

Not quite the same as voting for McCain yet maybe the same as not voting at all
unless there are more write-ins for Hillary than votes for Obama.

[SoonerPride]

138. Some states don't even allow write in votes. Do machines?

I think talk of that will fade and cooler heads will prevail.

Have faith, my friend.

[OzarkDem]

80. Don't count on it

See you at the Convention! :hi:

[tmoore411]

83. That is the BIGGEST CROCK OF CONDESCENDING SHIT

I have ever seen posted in my life. Someone telling me that I WILL vote and how...excuse me for having the sense and sensibility to actually look into the record and character of Sen. Obama and find both wanting, I will not be voting McCain, but cannot in good conscience vote for Sen. Obama either. And tripe like this OP stacks more bricks in front of the lever. Quit calling yourselves democrats or democratic and then telling people who they will vote for in the spirit of being a "good democrat". That reeks of desperation and is an additional motivation for my opinion that Sen. Obama is not only bad for the democratic party, he is bad for the USA ala G.W. Bush when the minions flatly declare you un-democratic or racist if you have a differing opinion, much the same way that folks were labeled terrorists or un-american if you didn't vote for Bush. Give it a rest, post an OPINION, don't tell me how I am going to vote or if I am a GOOD DEMOCRAT. The fall is greater from the high horse than from the audience chair, maybe some of you GOOD DEMOCRATS should remember that.

[saracat]

85. Amen. And I am sure you know what the phrase "Good Democrat" is remincent of?

[LowerManhattanite]

93. “Godwin's Law” invoked...

...and somehow, I knew it would be you who would go over-the-top and land there.

Sad, really.

[JasonHill]

95. Godwin's Law is completely worthless

people should judge content on merit rather than apply labels as a substitute for argument.

[SoonerPride]

137. Weclome to DU!

:hi:

[aquarius dawning]

88. No I won't. I'll vote Dem locally and statewide though.

[saracat]

92. Me too!

[JasonHill]

94. posts like yours are completely worthless

all you do when you tell others what they'll do is make them want to not do it to counter your attempts at applying authority. You do Obama a complete disservice with this stupid nonsense because all it does is alienate people. Grow up.

[hayu_lol]

98. Oregon voter for Hillary...

Mixed in with the usual insults and slime is a tense sense of desperation all over this board.

So many saying: "You have to vote for Obama."

Answer: No I don't.

[SoonerPride]

135. You don't have to, but you will because it is the right thing to do.

I have faith in the goodness of Democrats to unite and win.

[SoonerPride]

132. I'm not telling them what to do, I have faith in them doing the right thing.

I have hope and faith in the inherent goodness of people

[bridgit]

99. Rec'd

[emilyg]

108. Don't be so sure.

[grasswire]

109. Is that the same as "get over it" in 2000?

Is that what you're saying?

[complain jane]

133. It certainly sounds that way, doesn't it?

And it's just as repulsive as it was then, from the Repukes.

[backscatter712]

149. Except that in this case, she was beaten fair and square.

[complain jane]

150. And in this case,

you miss the point entirely just as the Repukes did then.

Do you seriously think it's just about Hillary losing? I'm starting to wonder if the board's been flooded by Repukes in Obama clothing.

[VotesForWomen]

112. some of us vote for principle, not party. nt

[ClassWarrior]

119. Fortunately, the vast majority of us vote for values, not personalities.

NGU.

[Forkboy]

123. And what are those principles? Less rights for women? More war? No environment?

Let's hear your principles.

[Iceburg]

120. Sorry sweetie, I am washing my hair that night.

[Arkansas Granny]

124. Before you start making all inclusive statements like this, you might want to wait

until the official nomination has taken place. You may find more folks receptive to the idea when it doesn't sound so much like you are gloating. Some of us have a candidate who is still in the race, regardless what you think her chances are of success. You won't make any points by trying to force people into a decision they are not ready to make so why not just leave it for the time being?

FWIW, I have said repeatedly that I will vote for the Democratic candidate in November.

[SeaLyons]

125. I don't think so....

:hi:

[McCamy Taylor]

128. Damn straight!

:dem:

[anamnua]

129. Absolutely

[complain jane]

134. You'll freak out and

complain throughout the next four years of a McCain presidency if you guys don't lose the condescending tone.

[SoonerPride]

136. I have inherent faith in the goodness of Democrats.

It's hope, not condescension.

Faith, not fear mongering.

Affection, not bullying.

We are brothers and sisters united in a fight to take back America.

You are not my enemy nor am I yours.

[Bensthename]

140. I have calmed down and now supporting Obama. Others should too.

:thumbsup:

[SoonerPride]

141. Thank you!

We're all on the same side, wanting desperately to take back America.

[Bensthename]

142. you're damn right ...

:toast:

[Imagevision]

144. I agree, with Hillary out of the picture more will be able to pay attention to Obama and learn...

[SoonerPride]

146. I just think collre heads will prevail and the choice will be clear.

We had a family fight, and it got a little loud at times, but we're still family.

We're not enemies.

We're on the same side and that message will be told by Hillary to her followers and they will calm down and join the fight to take back our country.

[dorktv]

159. Learn what? I have read all of his policies and I still have issues with him.

[SoonerPride]

187. I agree. I voted for Hillary on Super Tuesday.

He is not my first choice.

But he is our nominee and way WAY fucking better than McSame.

I have faith in the intelligence of our brothers and sisters to make the smart choice. To not sit out, not write in a name, not vote Nader and not vote for gramps McSame, but to vote for Barack Obama.

[mkultra]

152. nah, they WANT to attack iran and obliterate it.

[Two Americas]

162. you don't speak for Obama

You don't speak for Obama, the Obama campaign, nor for the Democratic party. It is not up to you to lecture people as to what there state of mind is nor what they should do. The Democratic party is not a cheering squad at a Sooner game, and you are not the drum major.

[SoonerPride]

179. No, but I have faith in the inherent goodness and right thinking of Democrats all over

Thank you!

[Two Americas]

190. no you don't

If you had "faith in the inherent goodness and right thinking of Democrats" there would be no need to post about it again and again.

It is deceptive to call agreement with you "inherent goodness and right thinking."

"Calm down" and "vote for the nominee" contradict each other. While you claim to be taking the high road here, and encouraging people to vote Democratic, your "calm down" betrays another agenda. You want people to stop saying things that make you feel uncomfortable - to wear the colors, wave the pennant, and cheer on the team and not discourage you in any way or introduce any dissonance into your fantasy world of team loyalty.

You talk about the Obama campaign as though it were the Sooner football team, and the general election as though it were the big game against Texas, and worse - you demand that everyone view it that way. You are gearing yourself up for the big post-game celebration when we can all can scream "we're number one!" and gloat and be in your opponent's face, taunting and jeering the vanquished ones.

It is demeaning and condescending to tell people to "calm down" and worse yet to predict that they will. That is a covert way to force them into your way of viewing things - a way to taunt people and diminish them, and to ridicule and dismiss their opinions.

[SoonerPride]

197. You got all that from a message of hope and unity?

I voted for Clinton.

She lost.

I got over it.

I calmed down.

99% of those on this board will calm down too and rational thought will trump emotional reponses.

Hillary will vote for Obama and so should you.

[Two Americas]

200. hope and unity

"Hope" is not blind faith. "Unity" is not suppression of dissent and purging of dissidents.

I have not ever said that I won't vote for the nominee. I don't need to be lectured by you about that. Nor do I need to be told to "get over it." Not do I need you to tell me to "calm down." Nor do I think your emotional and self-centered melodrama is of any particular value or interest to any of us.

What you are describing about your decision is an extremely weak position, and I will continue to argue against people taking these extremely weak and destructive positions - that have more to do with people's personal feelings and emotional need to beat up on their friends and allies - because that will hurt us in the general.

You may be obsessed over your own emotional roller coaster, and think that this election revolves around your feelings, but don't force that onto others.

[SoonerPride]

204. You're projecting.

It's a classic technique and in need of deeper counseling.

[Two Americas]

251. thanks for the diagnosis lol

I have to assume that since you are making silly and childish attacks on the messenger that you cannot refute the message.

[Elspeth]

165. You will be losing more people you realize

There's McKinney running for the Greens

There's Bob Barr on the Libertarian ticket, the Bob Barr who has been working with the ACLU to fight this wholesale theft of our rights.

Some women, who are sick and tired of the sexism and immaturity of the Obama supporters, may go elsewhere. Not McCain, but there are other options for those of us who vote our consciences. I cannot guarantee a vote to a man whose supporters are so vile toward me and my gender.

[casus belli]

167. You don't think any of those candidates have supporters who would offend you?

Let me be frank - a-holes don't come in just one size, color or gender. I think if you are going to base your vote on what you think of the candidates supporters, it shows a fairly shallow criteria. If you were to apply the same logic to your everyday life, and stop patronizing stores where you didn't feel you got the service you deserve inevitably you'd be left with very few choices of places to shop. If there were any left at all.

It's your vote to do with what you choose. But don't you agree that any vote would be better spent on the person with whom you most closely share similar ideals? And if that happens to be the candidates you mentioned, then why torture yourself by frequenting someplace like this?

There are some Hillary supporters who I will probably never take off ignore, even after this is all said and done. There's only so much vitriol I can take, but they in NO WAY have anything to do with my vote. If Hillary wins the nod, she has my vote. There's too much at stake to pretend I could do otherwise.

[SoonerPride]

184. I think when the heat of our family squabble fades, logic and reason will rule the day

I have faith in 99.9% of our brothers and sisters to do the smart thing.

Hillary agrees that Obama is still the best option if she herself cannot head the charge.

I voted for Hillary in Oklahoma. But the race is lost. Obama is our nominee.

I think most of my brothers and sisters will agree with me and back the nominee.

[Name removed]

174. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SoonerPride]

188. I have faith in your intelligence and right thinking.

Is that a bad thing?

[CakeGrrl]

177. As an Obama supporter, I agree that posts like this are not helpful

People will go to great lengths to prove that they don't have to do as someone tells them. And that'll get us 4 years of McCain if the issue keeps being pushed.

I'll be happy to see Obama win the nomination, but I'm not going to pile on and tell Clinton supporters to "Get over it".

I'd like to think that reasonable minds prevail in November as people see what's at stake in putting McCain over Obama, assuming that will be the choice before us.

[SoonerPride]

182. Why is that? I'm not ordering people to do anything, but affirming my belief in their intelligence.

My post is positive in tone and urges people to think instead of react emotionally.

Cooler heads, logic, reason, and common goals will unite us all to back the Democratic nominee.

It is not a bad thing, but a positive thing that we will march arm in arm to victory.

We are Democrats, after all else. You are not my enemy nor am I yours.

[CakeGrrl]

202. "You'll calm down"...I can tell you from personal experience that

When I'm angry about something and am told that, it makes me angrier. Internally I think to myself that I'll come down from whatever anger I'm feeling on my own timetable and don't need to be told what to do.

I'm just saying that I can understand being angry about something and not being in the mood to hear someone pretty much say "you'll get over it", especially if they're perceived as coming from the 'winning side', right or wrong as that may seem.

I think it's best to let the primary contest play out, and leave everyone to process the outcome on their own. As important as it is to defeat the Republicans in November, nudging people along at this stage of things isn't the wise approach, IMO.

[SoonerPride]

207. Well, again, it seems that your reaction is an emotional one.

"it makes me angrier."

Well, then, you are still in the emotional phase of the battle.

It will pass.

I'm sorry if a cold and thinking analysis doesn't appeal to you right now. It will. You cannot hold on to anger and pain forever.

Cooler heads will prevail.

Rational thought trumps emotion in the end and the only rational thing is to vote for Obama.

You say wait until the process plays out. I say it is over. Waiting until more time passes won't change the essential message.

It will take time to heal the wounds of the battle. Fine.

But know this; your friends are Democrats. We are here for you. We are here to win together. We are not the enemy.

[CakeGrrl]

239. Hello!!! Obama supporter here

???

I'm trying use empathy to explain why you might be alienating Clinton supporters with a post like this at a time like this.

Just some friendly advice that you might be doing a little more damage than you're trying to repair.

[theHandpuppet]

178. We'll "calm down" and obey orders, huh?

How patronizing of you.

[SoonerPride]

180. Your bitterness is showing. We're not enemies. We're on the same side.

And we will unite. Not because anyone orders you to do so, but because it is the righ thing to do. For your family, for women's rights, for the economy, for the people.

All Democrats want is to win against the Republicans.

Hillary wants it too.

She will endorse Obaama and I think 99.9% of her suppoerters will agree with her and vote for Obama in November.

[theHandpuppet]

206. The "calm down" bit is patronizing

Don't talk down to me. *I'LL* decide for whom I wish to vote and for what reasons. I don't need your lectures about what it means to be a Democrat. Go pat someone else on the head.

[SoonerPride]

208. I see it as a message of hope and unity.

Once the heat of the moment fades, rational thought will return.

If you need more time to wind down, then fine.

No one is pushing you.

[theHandpuppet]

214. You're patronizing and arrogant

I need to calm down and become "rational", huh? Boy, what a load you are. Maybe when YOU come to your senses you'll understand just how insulting you are and how your condescending comments are anything but unifying.

[SoonerPride]

215. I can see you need more time. That's fine. Your friends will be here for you when you are ready.

No one is pushing you to do anything, but I have faith that you'll agree with Hillary and Edwards and Dodd and everyone else that we should unite and fight to take back our country.

I'm sorry if my faith in you strikes you as condescending.

I believe in you.

[theHandpuppet]

217. I don't need your faith, your advice or your patronizing pats on the head

You condescending jerk. If anything, people like you might convince me to stay home come November.

[SoonerPride]

218. Now the name calling?

tsk tsk.

Again, calm down before you go into a snit.

[theHandpuppet]

224. If that's what it takes to get you to stop being a pandering snob

I can match you post for post.

[SoonerPride]

227. Well, you can continue to spew your vitriol and I'll just hug you tighter.

You are obviously in an emotional state and need some comforting.

We can talk through your issues now or later, when you've had a chance to stop hyperventilating.

I am not your enemy nor are you mine.

[theHandpuppet]

243. Keep your paws off and your platitudes to yourself

And when you vote, pull the curtain.

[mdmc]

181. he will get my NYS electoral vote

[MyNameGoesHere]

191. Always have and always will vote democratic, regardless what

these vile Obama people say about me not supporting their candidate. Now I will do it gladly, but my heart will never accept the supporters of him on this board. Why don't you guys look to your candidate and see what hope, unity, and change REALLY means?

[SoonerPride]

194. Thank you

I have faith in the intelligence of Democerats to do the right thing.

Hillary will vote for Obama and so should everyone on this board.

[Texas Hill Country]

201. no, i am a person. I am not saying that I wont vote Obama, but I am saying that I will not vote for

whatever bullshit they put on the plate just because I am a "loyal democrat."

[SoonerPride]

205. If "loyal Democrat" troubles you how about this.....

You are a smart and thoughtful person.

The reasons to vote FOR Obama far far FAR outweight the reasons to vote against him or to vote FOR McSame.

[incapsulated]

219. No, because I'm not a Democrat anymore

I'm registering Independent and I will probably not vote, unless it's for some other party.

Because this primary has cured me of my addiction to both politics and this stupid, useless party.

[SoonerPride]

221. Well then it is likely you never shared our values to begin with.

Perhaps some other party will meet your needs and deliver the change you deserve

[ScreamingMeemie]

223. I'm sorry, but you don't get to decide that for this person just because

they won't go along with your wishes. I'd rather have someone in "our" party who thinks for themselves and knows when to say enough...than someone who will go along with the rest of the sheep just because that's what they're supposed to. That line is dead with me. I did it for Kerry. I won't do it this time.

[incapsulated]

245. Thank you n/t

[incapsulated]

244. I've been a democrat for almost 25 years

My entire voting lifetime. I've volunteered my time and my money long before this primary and I've done the same for the causes it is supposed to represent.

How about you?

[ScreamingMeemie]

222. I already made my decision to focus on local politics in hopes that

we will have an actual Dem candidate someday...hopefully sooner, rather than later. Neither one of these poor excuses will get my vote. Not in November...not ever. I'm sorry but grassroots is where it's at and both of these candidates have proven that to me. Thank you for understanding.

And, on edit: It sickens me that Edwards felt forced to endorse someone. I adore his wife, MrG loved him...I'm rethinking my respect for him now. I'd feel the same if he had endorsed Clinton.

[SoonerPride]

225. I'm sorry you feel that way. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what you were looking for?

The candidate most closely aligned with my values was Kucinich, but he had zero chance.

So I voted for Hillary.

She lost.

So now I support Obama.

With the issues at hand all I see is two choices and one is far better than the other. McSame is a freaking disaster waiting to further destroy this country. So that leaves Obama.

Maybe you were looking for something else? Neither Hillary nor Obama?

Then what? or Who?

[ScreamingMeemie]

226. Then we stand up and say "ENOUGH", like our founding fathers.

You can do this until you are blue in the face but, I and others like me are done.

I support people like Sarah Roberts (D---Truly D) and running for State Rep. Try it. It will make you feel good about this country again instead of voting for those who give two shits about you. :hi:

[SoonerPride]

228. If you are calling for an armed insurrection, let me know where to go to sign up

We can't even stage good marches or rallies anymore so I think you might have a hard time creating another revolution.

Until then, we can work within the system we've got to push for change and progress. It comes, albeit at a snails pace sometimes. Look at the California Supreme Court ruling this week. That made me hopeful for the future. Look at the District 1 race in MI, that made me hopeful too.

Change can happen without an armed revolt.

[ScreamingMeemie]

229. I think you misread what I wrote and I also think you need to grow up

a little bit. Some of us are done on the National Level. My "armed revolt" is by pen and by foot. No more voting just because one sports a (D) after ones name. Truth be told, all three are the same. Read my words. I am done. I only vote for dems. We don't have one of those on a national level (strictly my opinion of course), and self serving, crazed rants such as yours only make me all the more sure in my decision. Have fun voting for nothing in November. Have a great weekend.

[SoonerPride]

230. Ill ask again then. What exactly are you looking for?

You rail against our candidates without offering me any tangible evidence of what exactly you want them to stand for and policies they should endorse.

What exactly is it you seek?

And perhaps you could reply with the ad hominem attacks. They really do undercut your credibility in this discussion.

[ScreamingMeemie]

231. You read statements without understanding them. Where is there

an "ad hominem" attack, except for in your mind (<that might qualify, but it's a stretch any English major will tell you). What I wrote to you was not an attack, it was a statement on how I find your "disposition", shall we say? My answers to your "questions" are all right there. Again. Read my words. Done. Your comments in this thread? Make me all the more glad with my decision.

[SoonerPride]

232. So much bitterness. So much antipathy. So grumpy.

Let me know when you are done having your little tantrum.

[ScreamingMeemie]

236. Nope. Just so much doneness. The bitter seems to be all you.

This is the part where you alert the admins demanding they ban me because I disagree with you. Have a wonderful, splendid weekend. :hi:

[SoonerPride]

240. I intend to.

Maybe a good weekend will help your frame of mind.

[Zomby Woof]

253. "work within the system"

That is where Obama is setting you all up for major disappointment and failure.

One cannot work for change within the system without placing the needs of the system first.

Obama has lately been softening his rhetoric on when troops will be withdrawn from Iraq. The timeline could very well have them there when midterms occur in 2010. There's going to be strife around here once again when Obama's "he can do no wrong" supporters clash with the rest of us who told you so.

[Phillycat]

233. Oh, how I love being told to calm down.

[SoonerPride]

235. No one is ordering you to calm down, but I have faith that you will.

Hillary will endorse Obama and 99% of her followers will vote for him too.

There is more that unites than divides us. I am not your enemy nor are you mine.

There is time for your wounds to heal and then rational thought will prevail.

I believe in you.

[BigDDem]

234. 2 weeks ago: Racist!!!!

Now: Welcome, come vote with us :)

[SoonerPride]

238. Hillary will endorse Obama and most of her followers will too

I have faith in the rational.

We have common goals that unite us far more than those that divide us.

[Solon]

254. I'm not a loyal Democrat, indeed, I'm not a Democrat at all...

However, because we don't have a viable, truly leftist party in this country, I'll be forced, yet again, to vote for the Democrats, not because I like them, I don't, but because I dislike the Republican Party more than I dislike the Democratic party.