Clinton:I've received nearly 17 million, Sen. Obama's received nearly 17 million; I'm slightly ahead

[sabra]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/14/eveningnews/main4097478.shtml?source=mostpop_story

<snip>

Clinton:

I've received nearly 17 million, Sen. Obama's received nearly 17 million; I'm slightly ahead. Those 34 million people, they will end up voting for the Democrat because there is no reason why they should want to continue the failed policies of George Bush.

Couric: When you give those numbers you're including Florida and Michigan?

Clinton: Of course. Because those were legitimate certified elections that were legal and valid, and people actually exercised their right to vote. The only dispute is how do they get the delegates out of those votes?

Couric: And I've raised this with you before, Sen. Clinton, but Barack Obama's name wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan.

Clinton: Well, that was his choice. He didn't have to take his name off. There was no rule requiring that he took his name off. But he did run, along with his supporters, a very vigorous campaign to get people to vote uncommitted. So he had a presence there, even though his name wasn't on the ballot.

[Occam Bandage]

1. "You know, it's clear this election they are having is not going to count for anything."

http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=zydzt

[GodlessBiker]

In her mind, it only counts for something when it needs to count for something

to help her win.

[flpoljunkie]

41. Pure Clintonian!

[Alexander]

75. You win this thread.

[MonkeyFunk]

2. She's absolutely right

good for her.

[cali]

11. LOL!!

She just sounds desperate, and in light of her earlier comments, completely disingenuous.

[dionysus]

13. you got played for a sucker... how does it feel?

[roguevalley]

53. she agreed to the rules when she thought she would win and now

that she can't, she doesn't. sounds bush to me.

[dchill]

15. Surely you're aware...

that she's completely wrong!

"You know, it's clear this election they are having is not going to count for anything."

:eyes:

[Occam Bandage]

23. And surely he's aware that her argument discounts caucus attendees.

[dchill]

26. "caucus attendees" are not popular voters...

to Hillary Clinton. Maybe she could just count the ones who caucused for her.

[MindMatter]

46. Talk about disingenuous

On one hand she says he encouraged people to vote "Uncommitted" in Michigan as evidence that there was a real contest, but then she doesn't include those "uncommitted" votes in Obama's total.

This lady plain old sucks.

I don't know why anybody is paying any attention to her at this point. Probably like the car wreck you can't look away from.

[Occam Bandage]

18. You know, when she says

"Well, that was his choice. He didn't have to take his name off," when she earlier said her reasoning for not taking her own name off was "well, it's clear that this election they're having is not going to count for anything," it's more laughable than commendable.

[Texas Hill Country]

33. yes, she is absolutely right.

[nxylas]

37. You'd say that if she said 2+2=5

"They're not the droids we're looking for".

[onenote]

65. by her own reaonsing, Obama should get credit for the uncommitted in MI

and if you do that, she's down by 200,000

[rodeodance]

36. Yes, Good on Hillary.

[onenote]

64. only if you give Obama credit for the MI uncommitted

She defends the inclusion of the MI vote in her column by saying Obama had a presence in MI through his efforts to get his supporters to vote "uncommitted". Well, if the uncommitted vote was reflective of Obama's "presence" in MI, it makes no sense to tally up the votes as if he wasn't present. SO give him the uncommitted MI vote -- and HRC is down by 200,000

[CreekDog]

69. Mrs. Honesty included "uncommitted in Obama's vote totals didn't she?

after saying that those were votes rounded up by his supporters.

or did she exclude "uncommitted" in Michigan from those totals?

come on, you are so proud, tell us that she is absolutely right to claim Obama was represented in that election but that she is not including those numbers? can she have it both ways? she will take it both ways, I know that much.

[Buddyblazon]

3. Weird...

just....


weird.

[Joe the Revelator]

4. If he ran such a "vigorous campaign to get people to vote uncommitted" he should recieve all those

votes....at the very least.

[Abacus]

43. Agree -- if she is going to make that argument,

she should be consistent.

[MattBaggins]

61. At the very least

the votes of the folks that clearly voted against her should be subtracted from her total.

[Pawel K]

5. I expect Hillary to throw away any moral fabric she has, I dont understand why her supporters follow

[WA98070]

21. There's nothing in the rules that require moral fabric and if it's not in the rules how can she...

throw it out?

[DS1]

6. Have her eyes turned brown yet?

[dchill]

28. No...

but she may just be a quart low!

[zonkers]

7. I typically refrain from piling on but wow... She is beyond full of shit.

[NotThisTime]

35. And has been since February 6th

[onehandle]

8. A lot of people support both of them. We must have unity.

No matter who's on the top of the ticket.

[WA98070]

9. If he campaigned for "uncommitted" then does he get all the uncommitted delegates..

and votes. If so, Michigan is nearly a toss-up.

[lapfog_1]

10. It's takes a village...

to get a wooden stake and ...

[ima_sinnic]

76. bwahaha!!

:spray:

[Kittycat]

12. Craziness!

Sounds like Bush logic.

[cliffordu]

14. There is something very, very wrong with her.

I really don't understand it.

[dchill]

31. "I have no ethical standards." - Hillary Clinton

OK, it was Amy Poehler, but I have no use for Hillary's "ethical standards."

[ErinBerin84]

16. "those were legitimate certified elections that were legal and valid"

Gosh, if that doesn't sound straight out of the mouth of Tracey Flick.


Legitimate and valid? Not so much yet, Hillary.

[rodeodance]

38. you got proof that they are not legit??

[demwing]

79. Yes, the DNC says as much

And the DNC controls the Democratic Party Primary Elections process. What else do you need?

[JTFrog]

83. Proof? Let's ask the judge.

This falls under U.S. District Judge Nancy Edmunds' jurisdiction.

In March 2008, Judge Edmunds ruled that Michigan's law that allowed only the Republican and Democratic parties access to voter information from the state's Jan. 15 presidential primary was unconstitutional.

The contest that was held has been invalidated. The chance of the DNC recognizing delegates based on the January 15th vote is almost nonexistent.

[JBoy]

17. Props to Katie for challenging Clinton on the "I'm slightly ahead" comment.

No Hillary, you're "slightly" full of shit.

[book_worm]

19. She will stretch the truth to the end.

[Stop Cornyn]

20. ...must... ignore... caucus... state... Democrats... logic... failing... all... hope... gone...

ALERT:

[ProSense]

22. Hillary, disenfranchising voters from day one

Hillary, a despicable and desperate person.

[lojasmo]

24. She is a lying shyte. EOM

[islandmkl]

25. If only I had mastered math like the clintonistas...

I would be working at NASA instead of a liquor store...

[BeyondGeography]

27. All she does with this shit is get everyone lathered up for no good reason

:thumbsdown:

[Apollo11]

29. Hillary Clinton got her numbers from Real Clear Politics

These are the popular vote totals from all the States that have released Popular Vote Totals.

Number of people who voted for Hillary Clinton: 16,710,298

Number of people who voted for Barack Obama: 16,680,827

These numbers include voters in both Florida and Michigan, but not the 238,168 votes for "uncommitted" in Michigan.

They also don't include any numbers from 4 caucus States (Iowa, Nevada, Washington & Maine) which did not release popular vote totals.

Of course there are other ways of adding up the numbers (also on Real Clear Politics), but Hillary's way is as valid as any other.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

[Occam Bandage]

34. So it's totally valid to discount four Obama states, as well as the 240,000 "uncommitted"

votes that Hillary herself is using as an excuse for counting her own Michigan votes.

Gotcha.

[hfojvt]

56. "Hillary's way is as valid as any other"

because none of the ways are valid because it was agreed upon at the start that total delegates would be the measure, not total votes. Some states decided to have caucuses to select their delegates. If the rules change and suddenly popular vote counts then those states become disenfranchised because of the lower turnout created by caucuses. Of course, you knew that and Hillary knows that, but she is counting on her supporters to either not know that or not care and to stir up outrage among the electorate by feigning outrage that "the popular vote is being over-turned". It goes back to what I said in October, that Hillary does not really care about her party or her country, both take a back seat to her own ambition.

[Apollo11]

67. Yeah, I noticed that too.

I think if we are going to count Michigan then those "uncommitted" votes should be added into the Obama column.

But Hillary is technically correct in saying that nobody in Michigan actually voted FOR Barack Obama.

[CakeGrrl]

68. Sounds a lot like ol' Bill peering over his specs and explaining that

his responses were "legally accurate".

:eyes:

Makes you wonder if there really IS a God, because lightning should surely have struck by now. Just what we need...another unethical, untrustworthy liar to succeed the current one.

[invictus]

30. This must be Clinton Lie No. 1,983,325,346,947,294,034. n/t

[rucky]

32. Weasel

what do I win?

[quiet.american]

39. She says these things with such disingenuousness, even though she knows better.

She knows that the Florida and Michigan primaries were not considered "legal and valid" by the DNC, yet she makes these statements as though butter wouldn't melt in her mouth!

[ecstatic]

54. Which is why I wouldn't be happy with her as president --at this time. She may change in 8 yrs

And if this experience teaches her a life changing lesson, I would be willing to give her a second look in 2016. But right now she is completely unfit to lead this nation. This conversation with Couric is just more proof.

[purji]

40. MI. primary was ruled unconstitutional

Clinton: Of course. Because those were legitimate certified elections that were legal and valid, and people actually exercised their right to vote. The only dispute is how do they get the delegates out of those votes?

more LIES for Hillary.

[2rth2pwr]

42. This argument will win with the public, and the Obama supporters know it.

They are hanging their hat on stomping on the faces of the voters in FL and MI.

[Occam Bandage]

44. So she hopes. Doesn't seem to be resonating with anyone at the moment, especially because

she only gets to that figure if she counts MI (but doesn't count the pro-Obama 'uncommitted' votes that she uses to defend counting MI) and discounts caucus attendees.

[2rth2pwr]

57. Doesn't seem to be resonating with Obama supporters here on DU, true.

With the American public, it will. Taking away one of our most cherished rights, the right to vote, and the right for your voice to count resonates with the American people.

[Occam Bandage]

60. She's been arguing that ever since she won those states, and it sure hasn't gained traction yet.

[demwing]

81. There is no "right to vote" in a primary

but I'm sure you knew that.

[shagsak]

55. No it won't

I know she counts on the uneducated vote but they can't be that gullible.

[onenote]

66. yeah, the public believes that not a single person in MI supports Obama.

FAIL

[demwing]

80. Your nic - it's too funny!

Considering your total lack of adherence to the truth.

[progressoid]

45. Is she still running for president?

I thought she dropped out. :shrug:

[Exilednight]

47. Hillary who?

[sabbat hunter]

48. so since

BO apparently ran such a strong campaign to get people to vote uncommitted, shouldn't those votes be counted as his?

[DefenseLawyer]

49. Come back and fight!

[nichomachus]

50. Hillary is just waiting

for that scoundrel, the Democratic Party, to come back and lead her to the altar like he promised

[Prophet 451]

51. She is so full of shit

I used to respect HRC but this is just insane. She agreed that MI wasn't going to count and only changed her opinion when it became obvious that she needed those delegates. Then she just plain lies that the FL and MI elections were legitimate. Then she blames Obama for taking his name off the ballot and ignores the fact that Hillary was the ONLY candidate who didn't take her name off the ballot. Then she talks about MI like she wasn't the one blocking the only fair solutions. Havign a revote or just giving Obama the uncomitted voters (which she claims he campaigned for) have both been blocked by the Hillary campaign. She is directly respo0nsible for disenfranchising Michigan by blocking teh only fair solutions.

[Erin Elizabeth]

52. Actually he DID have to take his name off the ballot,

and so did everyone else. Not only was it a rule, there was an oath they signed not to campaign or participate in any election that took place in a state not pre-approved to hold a primary before February 3.

But she knows that. She's just lying through her teeth.

The desperation has gone beyond stinky to smelling like a small enclosed area filled with hundreds of corpses that have been sitting in the sun for weeks and weeks. It's enough to make you vomit.

[WA98070]

58. Where's that written? Link please.

[Erin Elizabeth]

59. Here you go:

Here's the oath:

THEREFORE, I _______________, Democratic Candidate for President, in honor and in accordance with DNC rules, pledge to actively campaign in the pre-approved early states Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina. I pledge I shall not campaign or participate in any election contest occurring in any state not already authorized by the DNC to take place in the DNC approved pre-window (any date prior to February 5, 2008). Campaigning shall include but is not limited to purchasing media or campaign advocacy of any kind, attending or hosting events of more than 200 people to promote one's candidacy for a preference primary and employing staff in the state in question. It does not include activities specifically related to raising campaign resources such as fundraising events or the hiring of fundraising staff.

Source: Democratic National Committee

It's been all over DU in the past few months. All this "it was never a rule" stuff is a flat-out lie. They all signed that oath.

[AtomicKitten]

62. SS Clinton is starting to sound eerily like this:

[onenote]

63. well, then, I guess HRC should have no problem in including the MI uncommitted in Obama's column

Since she justifies including her vote in MI on the fact that Obama had a presence in MI through the uncommitted vote, then she should have no objections to including the uncommitted vote for Obama, in which case she's down by over 200,000 in the popular vote.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

[ruby slippers]

70. and Obama didn't even campaign in FL....although Hillary came here unofficially but who's telling?

She didn't play by the rules; just didn't call it campaigning but she did come to raise funds because I got an email telling me where she was going to be. I didn't go.

[indimuse]

72. BUt BUt BUT.....21 !! SAY IT!! 21...debates..1 Press Conference and HUGE cable TV ADs..

HE BROKE THE ROOOLZ!!! NADA should belong to BO!

Why Did Obama Withdraw From the Michigan Primary?
By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 08:17:53 PM EST
Tags: Michigan '08 (all tags) Share This:
As I wrote below, no candidate was required to withdraw from the Michigan or Florida primaries as part of the Four State Pledge (pdf).

John Edwards and Barack Obama were on the ballot in Florida, but withdrew from the Michigan race. Why?

Bill Schneider at CNN had a very plausible explanation:

CNN's Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider suggested the Democrats who withdrew may have calculated that it was simply in their best political interest to do so.

"If there's no campaign, the candidate most likely to win Michigan is Hillary Clinton," Schneider said. "Her Democratic rivals don't want a Clinton victory in Michigan to count. They want Iowa and New Hampshire, where they have a better chance of stopping Clinton, to count more."

More...


Chris Dodd and Mike Gravel, along with Hillary, elected to remain on the Michigan ballot. Biden, along with Obama and Edwards, chose to withdraw their names. Dennis Kucinich thought he filed the paperwork to withdraw but missed the deadline and was on the ballot.

Clinton's campaign said the New York senator will remain on the ballot. Chris Dodd also plans to stay on the ballot. "We're honoring the pledge and we won't campaign or spend money in states that aren't in compliance with the DNC calendar," Clinton spokesman Jay Carson said.

It was widely disseminated in Michigan, including by some official county websites , that if the voter didn't want to vote for those on the ballot, they should vote "uncommitted."

There is an “uncommitted” selection on the ballot. By voting “uncommitted” you are indicating that you have chosen to vote in a particular party’s primary, however you do not wish to vote for one of the listed candidates.

Rep. John Conyers pushed the "vote uncommitted" meme:

"The way the system is currently set up is inherently unfair," Michigan Rep. John Conyers told BlackAmericaWeb.com. "We are not going to just sit back and take this. I strongly encourage everyone in Michigan to go the polls. If your candidate’s name is not on the ballot, vote 'uncommitted.'"

Conyers and his wife even ran radio ads urging people to vote uncommitted. Here's the script:

Here is the radio script airing on radio stations in Michigan:

MALE: The presidential election is confusing. I want to vote for Barack Obama, but Obama's name is not on the ballot.

FEMALE: There is no one on that ballot I want to be president.

MALE: Well, these folks can help us. Excuse me, Congressman Conyers and Councilwoman Conyers, we need your help.

FEMALE: How can we vote for Obama on Tuesday?

REP. CONYERS: You can't. You cannot even write in Obama's name. If you do, your vote will not count because Obama's campaign chose not to place his name on the Michigan ballot so as not to violate national Democratic Party rules. But you can vote "uncommitted."

COUNCILWOMAN CONYERS: If at least 15 percent of the people vote "uncommitted," the state Democratic Party must send that percentage of delegates to the national convention uncommitted.

REP. CONYERS: My wife and I are voting "uncommitted." We will work with the Democratic Party to make sure that uncommitted delegates go to that convention truly uncommitted so that Obama can compete for their vote.

MALE: Thank you, Congressman Conyers and Councilwoman Conyers. I will join you and vote "uncommitted" on Tuesday.

FEMALE: Me too. At least my vote won't be wasted.

COUNCILWOMAN CONYERS: This truth-in-politics message was paid for my Friends of Monica Conyers.

In 2004, about 150,000 Democrats voted in the Michigan caucuses. This year, Michigan held a primary instead of caucuses and 600,000 Democrats voted. Hillary won all but two counties, Washtenaw and Emmett, where "uncommitted" won. The uncommitted total was 238,168. Hillary's total was 328,309.

It was Obama's choice to remove himself from the Michigan ballot. Did he do it for strategic reasons because Hillary was leading by large margins in the polls (Here's one from October 5 to 7, right before the drop out deadline, showing Hillary 42%, Obama 26%)? If so, why should there be a revote?

I think the DNC should remove the penalty from Michigan and Florida and seat the delegates. In Michigan's case, Hillary should get the delegates according to her vote total. The other delegates should remain "uncommitted" and vote how they want when they get to the convention.

[indimuse]

71. The Conyer's BOTH and Edwards..Obama's ran radio ads and

blanketed MI with flyers to vote "UNCOMITTED" !!! Clinton: Well, that was his choice. He didn't have to take his name off. There was no rule requiring that he took his name off. But he did run, along with his supporters, a very vigorous campaign to get people to vote uncommitted. So he had a presence there, even though his name wasn't on the ballot! BINGO! Obama is such a LIAR! He KNOWS He has LOST!

[my3boyz]

73. Darn...just when I posted something nice about her yesterday she continues with this shit!

I can't stand her! I don't feel sorry for her anymore!

[thunderdog]

74. She has at least one more card to play. There is no doubt about that.

[high density]

77. Clinton loves to dick the caucus states

The media is happy to follow her lead.

[GoesTo11]

78. This lady sure knows her math!

[LTR]

82. I guess caucuses don't count, huh?

That's Hillary Math for ya.

:eyes:

If she can't respect the rules, why is she still running?