Does feminism have its own generation gap?

[CatsDogsBabies]

Remember Obama said he thought there were generational differences between him and his pastor? Are similar generational differences in feminism working against HRC campaign? I am shocked when I read that women feel abandoned and other things like this. Are these young women saying this? Youngish middle-aged women? older middle-agerd women? or older women? I am a white woman somewhere slightly younger than Obama, and I know from "my area of expertise" that there were women scholars who came of age in the 70s (and perhaps to the mid-eighties) whose feminism is distinguishable from the feminism of the 90s/00s.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I'm a white 57 year old woman

and I have not supported Clinton for President. True feminists, imho, don't support someone just because of their gender (or race, for that matter). They support someone for what they say they will DO. That's why I still think that Dennis Kucinich is the best person for the job of President. Has nothing to with his gender or race--everything to do with his IDEAS.

[ShortnFiery]

8. This 49 y.o. woman fully concurs with ayeshahaqqiqa

Real feminists don't "feign indignation" and "make false complaints" that serve to promote their cause.

They simply out preform the men at their own game and insist on equal pay for equal work.

HRC has made "a mockery" of feminism.

IMO, she's the Anti-Feminist.

[kwenu]

2. Absolutely. There is a huge generation gap and I have been privy to a number of discussions

between feminists in my generation having to deal with their mother's generation in terms of NOT supporting Hillary.

[leftofcool]

3. I think so

[TexasObserver]

4. I think so, and the split is at about age 60.

Women who are Hillary's age or older graduated high school by 1965. The male and female grads in America from 1963-1968 were part of a great new divide in outlooks and experiences. It affects views on sex, drugs, rock and roll, race, and gender issues. The earlier someone graduated in that decade, the more likely they are to harbor racist views, or to have deep seated gender resentments. I think the women on the front end of the women's movement felt the brunt of sexism more early in their lives, and the sting of those days endures. Women who followed didn't suffer the same brunt, and didn't develop the same calluses as their older sisters.

That's why my older sister thinks Hillary is a warrior and my younger sister thinks she's an over the hill troublemaker.

Of course, this is just my view, entirely anecdotal.

[EFerrari]

5. Of course there is -- as there is any field of study.

But, it's not disparity that can be rigidly deduced simply from age groups. Feminists have always been pretty diverse in their thinking even within generations, right?

/oops

[LisaM]

6. There IS a divide and I saw it illustrated most vividly on the old Bill Maher show

"Politically Incorrect" maybe 7 or 8 years ago. One of his guests was Erica Jong. Another was a younger, 20-something women (no one I'd ever heard of) who actually got out of her chair during the discussion and said something to the effect of, "we don't need people like you to tell us what feminism is or isn't! I'm a liberated woman!"

What a slap in the face to someone like Erica Jong, who had done good work for years. Of course, it made the younger woman look stupid, at least to me, but I think it evidenced what we're dealing with. Really young women see the feminist movement in terms of a pretty distant past. They don't understand that their rights are declining even now (witness, for example, how Viagra is covered by insurance companies while birth control pills are not, the refusal of pharmacists to distribute Plan B, and so on).

At a caucus a friend of mine went to in Washington state, a young woman stood up and said, "I know there will be a woman president in my lifetime, so I don't care if there is one now". My friend (who is older than I am, in her mid-fifties) thought that was optimistic, I took it the exact opposite and found it depressing.

A few days ago I read a post here by a woman who was 52, and had concluded that she, too, would never see a woman president in her lifetime. Some guy who was, I THINK, trying to cheer her up, told her that don't worry, there could be one in the next 25 years! That's not very long!

Well, if she's 52, she'll be 77 in 25 years, her working days will be over and what good will it be to her then?

[ShortnFiery]

9. IMO, it's time to grow the f**k up. I'm a 49 y.o. white woman but I can empathize with

people who'd like to see an ASIAN, AMERICAN INDIAN, LATINO etc President.

I've not been one to use "identity politics" or else I'd be 100% in the tank for HRC.

And I've experienced sexism, up close and personal, as a woman army officer in the 1980s.

IMNSHO, "character" trumps "identity" issues - ALWAYS!

I just can NOT respect people who would vote for someone solely based on *Identity.* :shrug:

[graycem]

11. Indeed..

:toast:

[LisaM]

16. Hillary was not my first choice, so I don't think you can accuse me

of voting solely on identity politics. I have also vote FOR black candidates and AGAINST white woman candidates in elections over the years. All things being equal, though, I would like to see what a woman can do, after 43 male presidents in a row.

[ashrob123]

7. Feminisim has both generational gaps as well as racial,

economic and class gaps. The movement as a whole has done very little to deal with it's own deficiencies and spends most of it's time primarily dealing with issues that are important to middle/upper class white women. Time has changed the movement somewhat but a lot of women of color (I can't say all but all of the women that I know) feel as if the movement purposely left behind big chunks of women in order to advance the issue of sexism without acknowledging that the intersection of racism, sexism and classism can be just as important in any significant way.

[graycem]

10. It might be a factor

but it can't be the primary cause, because I am early 30's my mother is late 50's and she and I both proud women and are voting Obama. I have seen women across all age groups, race, and class at his rallies, so, I guess it's more an illustration about what women believe feminism is, and as we all know, no group's members all think alike.

For me it means equal period. Not equal with special treatment because you're a girl or who you married, in fact those things to me, seem to be against the whole point of feminism. You can't say I'm tough and strong treat me the same as the boys, and then turn around and say "the boys are being mean." Those points of view are at odds with each other.

[NewHampshireDem]

12. That's an intersting question, one that I've been sort of pondering myself

I've seen some posters dismissing young women, some in pretty stark terms (comparisons to Brittney, American Idol, Paris Hilton :puke:)

As a teacher, I've worked with hundreds of young women. Yes, some of them can act pretty vapidly sometimes. However, more of them are actually pretty politically savvy and were raised to play with the boys and fight for the things they need. I was the girls' varsity soccer coach for a few years, and let me tell you, these girls knew all about Title IX. These girls wanted to scrimmage the boys every chance they got. I never had a single one of them fail off the team--they were smart and tough.

One of my players in particular was very, very politically active. She was arrested at a protest in DC when she was 19, and I think that kind of sealed things for her. It inspired her to go to law school and continue to fight for progressive social issues. Oh, and she supports Obama--you can even see her behind him in the Will.I.Am 'Yes We Can' video.

I think the difference is that they were raised to believe something different about themselves than older women were raised to believe. They never had to play basketball with 'modified' rules to make the game 'less strenuous' for them. They didn't have to seek out strong women role models, because they were all around them. (The group that I worked with came of age during the Mia Hamm/Brandi Chastain era, and their favorite movie right down the line was '10 Things I Hate About You.') I don't think they take things for granted as much as they never entertained the idea that they were entitled to be anything less than equal.

Sorry if none of that makes any sense. :shrug:

[FlaGranny]

13. I'm 68, so I'm from the

"elderly" group. I am my own person and always have been. I do what I want, when I want, and I vote for who I want based on their platforms and their campaigns. I'm for Obama. I can't fathom voting for someone for any other reason that their policies.

I just recently decided, after watching Obama's campaign that the way the campaign is run is extremely important too. That tells you a lot about the candidate.

I've always been suspicious of people who are militant feminists, but am completely in agreement with the goals of feminism. At least I am if they're what I think they are - total equality, and I don't just mean between men and women.

[izzybeans]

14. Like the labor movement, the big gap has been racial.

Women of color weren't always and aren't always welcomed with open arms, unfortunately.

That being said, younger feminist scholars are much more likely to be inclusive of the entire range of identity politics in their studies. By younger I mean circa 50 years old or younger, which is youthful in academia. Outside of academia, this cultural shift lags behind a decade or so. Older pop-feminists aren't well versed in feminist standpoint theory, for instance, and often conflate their standpoint as THE feminine standpoint. These are the folks that can not fathom NARAL backing Obama.


But these are merely trends, and as is true for any trend, the exceptions to the rule can be numerous and likely are.

[4_Legs_Good]

15. I'm male, but I have a question on this topic...

I'm in my late 30's and I think that what you're saying, judging from people I know, seems to be true.

It seems to me that feminists of an older generation had to fight like hell to not be thought of as only mothers, slaves, sex-objects, and somehow work towards being equal with men.

I think, however, that women who may well consider themselves feminists now are a bit more able to embrace the sexual advantages they have, in particular the fact that men are salivating slobs and turn to goo when a woman they find attractive is around. And rather than shun that attitude, they use it to their advantage, while, of course, never forgetting that all else must be equal.

This isn't coming out right.

But for example, I've heard a lot of HRC supporters here jump on anyone's case who think that Michelle Obama is attractive, and they use it to prove that all Obama supporters are sexist because they think of her as an object, and thus think of all women as an object.

I think, otoh, that the so-called sexual revolution has allowed women to embrace the fact that they can be attractive as well as equal, powerful, intelligent, etc. It's not either-or.

Sorry for being so inarticulate.

David