The Party isn't Broken and doesn't need "Fixing"!

[Vyan]

The Democratic Party is Changing for the Better.

It's taken me a bit of time to come to this conclusion. I've carefully considered the issue of post nomination Party Reconciliation and whether or not we may need to a Shotgun Marriage to repair the wounds that have been gouged into the Democratic Party by this Primary Season.

But I've finally realized we don't need to break out the spackle, silly putty and super glue in order to re-stitch the Democratic party back together. With Barack Obama's candidacy we ourselves are Becoming the Change that we need.

Hillary Clinton is a fine candidate, and a fine politician - but she is shown herself to clearly be a politician of the past with her use of divide and conquer, fear-mongering, crush and smear tactics.

It's time we moved away from that kind of politics, and that kind of country. It's time we embraced the future - and that future is President Barack Obama.

As thereisnospoon has handily pointed out today, this isn't about either sexism or racism.

Barack Obama will be the Democratic Nominee because he has repeatedly refused to pander to our worst instincts. He has refused to easily give into fear.

No, he didn't do the proper political thing and toss Jeremiah Wright under the Mid-town Express at the first opportunity. He let Jeremiah blow himself up.

No, he didn't immediately assume that we should show "strength" either by jumping into a ill-advised and unnecessary war, or by keeping everyone we disagree with at arms length as if simply having a conversation and attempting to find common ground (Like Kennedy with Krushchev, Nixon in China and Reagan with Gorbachev) is in and of itself some kind of grand concession and some sign of "weakness" or some silly misappropriated version of appeasment.

No, he didn't sign on with an idiotic gas-tax holiday plan, because he had the experience to know that it wasn't going to deliver the consumer savings it promised.

On each of these issues and many more he shown better judgement, and better respect for the intelligence of the American people than has Clinton. She and her campaign have deliberately pandered to ignorance, paranoia and fake outrage with "I would have walked out of that Church", "He's lucky to be a Black Man" when even they know damn well he isn't, "He's not a Muslim as far as I know..." and bragging that she "has the hard-working uneducated White Voters, that he can't get" - while he has not responded in kind. He's refused to be dragged down into that cesspool with her.

He has not stooped to her level.

Sure we need a President who is "tough", but I would prefer one who doesn't repeatedly and chronically gets "tough" about The Wrong Issues.

He has not tried to exploit our fear and anxiety or try to Bribe Us. Instead he has shown Courage and an abiding Faith in the American people and that's the kind of President we need.

We need a President who isn't going to have a "Senior Moment" over and over again between Sunni and Shia. Who knows the difference between someone (like the duly elected ruling party in Palestine) supporting you, and you supporting them. Whose idea of "Supporting our Troops" isn't to oppose bills that would do exactly that. Whose Primary campaign debts and promises aren't to lobbyists, corporations, Rangers, Super-Rangers or Cougars - but are to the American people themselves.

More than that we need a President whose idea of showing solidarity with our military families isn't to give up a golf, and then not actually give it up - we need a President with genuine courage.

For Courage is the ultimate cure for what ails us.

Courage is how we cure both Racism and Sexism. It takes courage to ignore what statistics might say about any particular type of individual, and what past experience might say - and to take them for who and what they actually are.

Courage is how we cure Terrorism. It takes courage to remove the primary power that a terrorist wields, fear of death, destruction and injury. If we can not be terrorized, their methods become useless and meaningless.

Courage is the Key.

We don't need to be afraid that the party won't heal itself, that we may have lost some of the Hillacrats forever as they wallow in self-pity over how we "beat up on their girl", yet ignore and justify all the jabs and cheap shots she and her campaign have dolled out. Let Hill court and keep the West Virginia Double-wide vote. The people who just can't bring themselves to vote for that black (muslim/anti-american) man.

If they're willing to embrace change, and embrace the future - fine. Glad to have ya, but if not - we don't want 'em. We don't need 'em. Frack 'em.

We don't need to go begging on hands and knees for them to hold their nose and pretend to support our curly haired black-negro-man with the white mother, elitist, former food-stamp receiving, educated, school debt-having, orange-juice drinking, basket-ball playing, lousing bowling candidate. If they want to jump-ship and join the Republicans and vote for John McInsane, I'm sure Maverick and his good buddy Karl Iceman Rove will be happy to have them.

We have to realize that nominating and electing Barack Obama to the Presidency will send a shock-wave across this nation and across this world, one that will resonate for more deeply than even the passage of the original Civil Rights Act. Back then LBJ knew that Democrats would be losing the south for perhaps a generation or more. This time we might lose more than that, and we might gain far more as well.

Both in the long and the short run, it's going to be worth it.

This is the beginning of the NEW Democratic Party.

We have already begun the Change that Barack has spoken of, we have become that Change. Those who wish to join us and embrace that change are welcome to do so, those who do not are free to wallow in the cynicism, pandering, oppurtunism, manipulation and fear-mongering of the past.

We're done with all that, and are going This Way. Toward the Hope. Toward the Future.

Everyone else can either climb on for the ride or be left behind.

Vyan

[Time for change]

1. Very well put regarding Obama's many strengths

But I would caution against Hillary bashing.

Our party needs to come together.

[Vyan]

2. Y'know what...

I'm just calling it how I see it. It's not like she's offered out an olive branch or a white flag, she's still in the fight and still fair game.

The way she's run her campaign, the way she's tried to manipulate the democratic party has been a disgrace and an embarrisment, and it needs to be pointed out that exactly THAT is what is being rejected. Exactly That is what we need to put in the past.

To Paraphrase the President in Israel: Molly-coddling and "appeasing" this kind of politics with rationalizations and excuses would simply embolden and encourage it to continue. It's gotta stop. Period.

We gotta call it out for what it is, just as Barack has called out Bush and McCain for the same thing just today.

Our party doesn't need to "Come Together", that's my entire point. Once Hillary loses, which will be soon, those who supported her need to change direction and come our way, for the good of the Nation and the World.

We don't need to go their way, that's one of the perks of winning.

Vyan

[N4457S]

3. What's Setting Up...

...is that Hillary will push the race to McCain (already seeing signs of it) so she can run in 2012.

They say she's already hiring.

With Bill and Hill, it was always about them. It always will be.

Obama is setting up the same coalition that resulted in McGovern's 49 state defeat of 1972. Begala mentions it in just about every appearance.

Whether it's their way or our way or the highway...what matters is WINNING.

Some of us have figured that out. Others haven't.

[Vyan]

4. Then we just have to win

Without the Hillacrats that's all, which is possible particularly if the youth and minority votes are super-energized. We have to literally CHANGE the paradigm. Yes, we CAN Change the script, but we have to believe and realize it's possible or we won't even bother trying.

Begala is on Clinton's payroll, why would he ever encourage this idea? He's selling you an old warn out tire.

Winning by selling out our principles, and giving into the old politics of cynicism and manipulation that we've seen for years from Karl Rove, George Bush, John McCain and Hillary Clinton isn't winning anything - it's a complete and total defeat.

We'll have gained nothing, but a change of personnel - not policy.

Vyan

[Texas Hill Country]

8. do you work for the Obama campaign or are you just regurgitating the memes?

1. Hillary is not the only one that has talked about demographics that people get... what about when Obama made the comment about "it is easier for me to get her voters than it is for her to get mine" line of crap in Nevada? Then there has been lots of comments out of the Obama camp about the black vote. The meme that he is not as guilty of pointing out and exploiting identity politics is pure horseshit.

2. Paul Begala is a long time, stauch, and very respectable democrat. He does think Hillary would be better than Obama, but he has repeated over and over and over and over that he would be more than happy to support Obama one the primary is over. He has also been more than fair to Obama in all of his commentary.

3. The fact that you lump the Clintons in with Rove and Bush destroys any credibility you have. This is a total load of propoganda bullshit.

4. Idealism and hope only take you so far. Then you have to get pragmatic. I am not saying that Obama is not that candidate, but if you are rejecting pragmatism outright, then you have had more than your dose of someones koolaid.

5. The thought that you can realistically win the Presidency without half the democratic party is laughable. This assertion also destroys any credibility you have. EVEN IF you get a super energized base of youth and minorities, Obama would still have to win the "white blue collar and middle class" vote by more than about 40%... the same margins he is winning them vs Hillary... in a Democratic Primary... that overall percentage will likely be lower in a GE scenario.

you had actually better hope to god you get the "Hillarycrats" to vote for your guy, otherwise Obama does not have a shot in hell.

[papau]

23. Hillacrats forever wallow" - he doesn't give a damn about the party as long as Hill not VP -typical

[N4457S]

6. What I See...

...below is commonly referred to in Political Science as the circular firing squad. There's always this element in the Democratic party that thinks it's "too good" and above the fray and doesn't have to concern itself with actually looking at things from a realistic perspective and doing what it takes to actually win and retain power.

When I'm flying and I look at my instruments, I pay attention to what they tell me unless I have reason to believe otherwise. You take the data, distill it and act on it. You don't sit there like a drama queen bouncing off the walls and tell yourself you're seeing something else. That'll get you killed.

Bastards they are, the Clintons always knew this.

So now, the party turns away from them to a candidate whose overall philosophy and campaign style reminds me a lot of Dukakis and McGovern. Too much, in fact.

Yes, McCain is a weak candidate. But []how weak? We know Obama couldn't win his own primary in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan or West Virginia. He couldn't even win California.

We know these are swing states. He HAS to carry them in the general.

Why are we doing this?

[Vyan]

7. California

is a Swing State? No, it's hard core BLUE. Barack is ahead of McCain in California by 7 points. Since you brought it up Obama won Texas, plus he's got a strong shot of taking New Mexico, Florida, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconson, South Carolina, North Carolina, Nebraska and Virginia. That's not based on the Primary results, based the current Electoral Map and latest state-by-state polls.

Vyan

[satireV]

10. Of all the states you listed only Cali is blue

According to this map

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Obama/Maps/May16.html




No rational person thinks a Dem can take TX, SC, NC,

Perhaps you have another source for your gratuitous assertion, other than your feelings?

[Vyan]

11. On May 5th

That map looked like this.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Obama/Maps/May05.html



With Barack within 1 percentage point of McCain in Texas and leading in Michigan and Wisconsin. Never say Never.

[Texas Hill Country]

12. I am telling you right now, there isnt a chance in hell that Texas is going blue... I would kiss

the ground and thank my lucky stars, but I am not delusional enough to think that will happen.

[N4457S]

15. No...

...and I know that because I lived there.

But Virginia might.

[Texas Hill Country]

17. no what? are we agreeing that there is no way TX will vote Obama?

[N4457S]

21. Yessir...

...that is correct. Nor will he carry anything in the deep or mid south.

But Virginia and North Carolina are maybes. So are Arkansas and Missouri.

Forget Louisiana. Too many demographic changes there.

[Texas Hill Country]

22. Arkansas is a no go for Obama... Hillary yes, Obama no... MO... close... VA I would say probably

LA, no way.

[satireV]

18. You wanna play THAT game?

Are you serious?

Apr. 02 Electoral Votes: Obama 205 McCain 324 Ties 9

[Texas Hill Country]

13. not THAT hardcore... it voted for Reagan and has a Republican Governator

he has no shot in florida imo... smoking crack if you think he will take SC... he MIGHT MAYBE POSSIBLY take NC... Nebraska, dont make me laugh... Virginia, I could see that. NM is also possible. And MI will be close.

[satireV]

20. You're a liberal/progressive stuck in Texas! ;/

Damn, At least you're in the hill country, I assume.

I'm in the PNW now and I miss the bluebonnets..... but not the hot as hell summers. hehe

Keep up the good work holding their feet to the fire!

[Texas Hill Country]

24. nope, actually I am in dallas, but went to UT austin... was meant as a double entendre tho

Hill is short for Hillary...


yeah, i know bad, but i came up with it on short notice...



and actually, the Clintons have become quite popular here in Texas... my countrified trucker dad voted for Hillary... I just about shit!

[N4457S]

35. We LIved There...

...for a number of years.

I miss the barbeque and steaks. Those people know how to run a smoker.

[suzie]

25. Clinton supporters always say that Obama can't win Florida.

But, she can't either. What objective criteria do her supporters have for the constant reiteration of "Florida is a swing state that Obama can't win." Florida is a Republican state. It has a popular Republican governor, who has been talked about for the ticket. A completely Republican-dominated legislature. One elected Democrat at the top levels of state government

Huge numbers of military retirees live in Florida. Lots of military bases in Florida--two of which John McCain was stationed at. Lots and lots of conservative 'values voters' who abhor Hillary Clinton. And yet, there is the constant criticism, "Obama can't win Florida" as if stating that Clinton can makes that somehow factual.

[Dr.Phool]

27. I beg to differ.

A friend of mine is running for the Florida State Senate. We talk almost daily. She's been canvassing for months now, gathering signatures from both Democrats and Republicans, to get on the ballot. She's already qualified, but she's keeping it up, talking to the Republican incumbents base.

She's amazed at the number of Republicans that say they want to vote for Obama in November. And she supports Hillary.

This is in a very red district that stretches from Citrus County in the south to the Georgia border in the north.

Something is happening here folks. And I think it's good.

[Hippo_Tron]

52. California has been pretty solid blue since Bill Clinton ran in '92

As far as having a Republican Governor goes, Wyoming has a Democratic Governor but I'm not expecting it to flip in November.

California used to be a close state that leaned Republican. Reagan had little trouble there because it was his home state. But in a way he wound up handing the state to us in future elections by pushing the moderates out of the GOP. Bush carried in '88 but barely and only because Dukakis flopped.

[pingzing58]

39. Right. No bashing allowed here. Its all good. Truth to power always! Dems rule!

[depakid]

5. On policy levels, the party remain VERY dysfunctional

Of course, this post wasn't really about policy....

[N4457S]

14. Yes...

...and that's what's wrong with Congress.

Pelosi and Hoyer and Dean all know it but can't seem to do anything about it.

The party itself has become a shotgun blast: all these groups having interests which many times conflict with one another. That causes the party itself to have an unfocused, unorganized nature. You have the gay lobby and the feminist lobby (which go together quite nicely for the most part) and then you have the unions which are loaded with Reagan Democrat types who vote Republican about fifty percent of the time. Then there's the civil rights coalition which has apparently chosen a candidate who can't win the big states but the party fathers can't afford to piss them off and risk breaking up what's already a fragile coalition.

That's where all the infighting comes from. The younger crowd wants Obama because it wants to feel good and be pure and do something special, whatever the hell that means on any given day. Hillary knew what she wanted and where she wanted to go but the younger crowd didn't think she was pure enough and wasn't a real Democrat...once again, whatever the fuck that means on any given day.

So, the party's split...just like it was in 1968 and 1972 and 1988. With predictable results.

[Texas Hill Country]

16. truth, right here.

[psychmommy]

9. millions of new dems have been registered.

i am so charged up by how our party is moving. we may lose some folks as we move a little to the left but we have gained so many as well. i am with you vyan i am the change i've been looking for. i have been phone banking and i will continue to work. everyone can do something even if you can't leave your house. once he is in i am going to work hard on progressive and african american issues-like poverty, education, equal sentencing standards, and to get heck out iraq.

[N4457S]

37. Yeah...

...that's the same line I heard in 2000 and 2004.

And then the 'Pubs won. AGAIN.

If I remember correctly, it was the same thing I heard in 1988 when we thought the Republicans were weakened after Iran-Contra. Bernie Shaw made a fool of Dukakis during one of the debates and that was all she wrote.

And then Republicans took control of the House in 1994 for twelve fucking years, probably because the American people were scared to death of Hillarycare. This got us the Patriot Act, No Child Left Behind, the new bankruptcy law (which Hillary voted for) and the war among other things.

I'm not sure there is a party.

[psychmommy]

44. we did not lose.

stolen elections. if we are not careful they will be stolen again. don't get it twisted-the supreme court gave bush the first term. kerry won as well the votes weren't counted. instead of trashing the party let's do something about the voter fraud.

[N4457S]

45. Ok...

...so we didn't lose.

And Gore took the oath of office. Right?

Right?

Gore lost because he didn't carry Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia and New Hampshire. If he had, he wouldn't have needed Florida. That's a fact.

Democrats would do themselves a favor by refusing to be victims and doing whatever it takes to win.

And guess what? The same scenario is shaping up for 2008. Obama can't carry Ohio or Pennsylvania...and then he can't carry anything in the south.

He's a dead duck...and the party knows he's a dead duck but because of the way it's organized there's no immediate solution.

That has to change.

[psychmommy]

50. voter fraud.

you believe what you'd like. i am going to do everything in my power phonebanking, door to door, transportation to the polls, poll watching. i am going to work to make a change. you can sit on the sidelines and complain or you can be part of the solution. i am going to be active and remain positive. have a good night.

[N4457S]

53. No...

...you can be part of the solution by helping to fix what's systemically wrong with the party!

And the party won't win consistently until it happens.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

19. I wholeheartedly support Obama and...

...I'll still wait and see.

[Sunnyshine]

26. K&R Courage IS the key to shifting the paradigm and restoring the party

Thank you Vyan. Great post! :applause:

I see this: Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush, Bush, Clinton. Status quo voting that gives in. Again. I don't want to give in to the powers that be anymore. Study these administrations, and there's no way to quantify real progress across the board for Americans. It's nominal at best. Corporations ruled.

I know we are up against mass institutionalized corruption, it has seized control of everything, rooted in our government and the two parties. By making these indifferent and one in the same, we are left with the same. No change. That is what we are up against. Once again, the same peddlers are out in full force. Electionmongers, Rumormongers, Fearmongers, Warmongers, Powermongers, etc., all of them are fighting like hell to keep their status quo positions of power.

Year after year, we get sold a fraudulent bill of goods by most politicians and except the fail.
Year after year, we talk about fixing things and forcing accountability onto the rubber chickens.
Year after year, we elect an ill-chosen candidate that shifts their agenda against our interest.

Not this time. This is our BIG Foot in the door and the opportunity to leave behind the fog. Once we can see where the hell we are actually going, we must gather up the minds and find a way to honor One America. When that happens, our party will attract more voters because we will have earned it. That's what sets us apart. Our voters must be earned. Republicans grow warts and plan wars.

The Democratic Party platform was hijacked by those who do not want us to have a clear option to choose from. Muddy the waters and people become so confused that they can't tell the difference between who is doing wrong, and who is actually doing something right. We expect it to happen again. The Washington Insiders prefer it that way. The Third Way.

They know there is a swelling undercurrent building up from inside, one that is united by the dreams of our working hands and active minds from every walk of life. We have gathered up the fortitude and energy to finally be motivated to take action against their inaction.

The paradigm must shift- if we are to do the very thing we have talked about doing for decades.
Kick out the scandalmongers and corporatemongers. It is time to elect patriots and patrons.
I Hope 08 we can find a way to work it all out. We can't afford the status quo, no mo.

[DinahMoeHum]

28. Basically, I want a POTUS who will think with the brain. . .

instead of the you-know-what.

:kick:

[Jakes Progress]

29. No, the party isn't broken...

It's running along just as it has for the last several elections. First we get pragmatic, then we have a fight for the "soul of the party", then we get angry at each other, and then we get radicalized, then we lose. Then we do it again. And again. And again.

Like a well-oiled machine, we are running along doing the same old thing. Nothing broken. Working just like it always does.

What we need isn't repair. What we need is change. Not the "change" of political campaign sloganeering, but change as in doing something different.

About the only thing we haven't tried is unity. Now that would be a change. Hell, we might even win. Talk about change.

[N4457S]

34. As People Get Older...

...they become less flexible and less open to change.

That doesn't bode well for what the Democratic party appears to be transforming itself into.

I think Hillary understood this but the base as always seems to want to pull to the left.

You said it yourself. Time and time again, the party convenes its circular firing squad with predictable results.

[Jakes Progress]

38. I guess it is where you stand that

determines your perspective. In my wild and crazy youth I was passionate and committed, but I don't think I would say I was flexible. If things didn't go my way, I went into freak-out mode. I see a lot of that now from the younger Obama supporters. But also, as you say, from my older position, I'm not as tolerant of the same bad behavior I exhibited myself in my idealistic youth. They see me as inflexible and unable to welcome change. I see them and ask "What change". I've seen this play before. I know how it ends. We aging old liberals are pissed that the young think they invented "change". The young firebrands are pissed because tell them they didn't. It is a circle, and it goes nowhere.

So I've come to see the need for a real change. The only thing that will break the circle and bring real change is unity. It's what we haven't done before. Accepting different ways to get where we want to to, but unity on the destination, respect for the fact that we have shared goals. Universal health care. Ending the stupid war. A balanced Supreme Court. Economic parity.

If someone's only goal is to get their guy elected, that's not the same thing as being a progressive. If someone thinks that any of the candidates doesn't want these things too, they are simply naive and misled. If someone thinks that either Hillary or Barack has been a national leader in any of these areas, they are also mistaken. It will take all of us pushing to get these goals done, regardless of which professional politician sits in the white house.

We stand a better chance if both of them get there.

[N4457S]

40. I Appreciate...

...what you're saying, but you won't get unity with this crowd, this year.

Obama is going to lose anywhere in the neighborhood of 30-35 states. He can't win Ohio, Pennsylvania or Michigan. The south is a foregone conclusion. He couldn't carry California in the primary.

Right there, it's over. We may as well not spend the money.

I can't personally stand Hillary but she would have been a stronger candidate.

[David Diderot]

30. You must be joking

The party with the leadership of Bush and corporate enablers like Reid and Pelosi is an improvement? The Democratic party has become Republican lite.

[Sunnyshine]

31. Exactly! Liebercrats, Reagan Dems. et al. are failing to define the party at large

While refusing to advance our social causes. My local Democratic party is the same way. Republican lite enablers. It has shrank to a small gathering of older couples, friends of theirs, and ex-office holders. No Youth. The meetings are lame. I call it drink and gossip party. I tried to offer suggestions, but they're without form and looking to blame others, and not getting elected.:crazy:

The Big Tent is all inclusive. The problem is, we don't heard together well and being united under the same banner is a struggle. Unlike Republicans who tend to be cookie cutter voters. People left our party in droves, voter participation and election turnout fell off the chart's. Some walked away and became Independents that still vote Dem. Others, could care less.

70% of the eligible population registers to vote, which may be an important contributing factor in the low average election turnout, which in recent decades just barely has topped 50% of voting age population in presidential elections. However, in 2004, the presidential election turnout was up to 56.70% of all US citizens old enough to vote. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout

Now, folks are coming back and getting involved again. Those who stuck it out despite the shift towards the right, hold the line to this day. The've been outnumbered. That's changing this Nov. And...wait-for-it....it will take a Centrist to do it! :yoiks:

[N4457S]

43. Oh...

...it never changes.

How old are you?

This year is "different" is precisely what I heard in 1980, 1984, 1988 (especially with Dukakis), 2000 and 2004.

Do you realize that Democrats have nominated both a fairly recent governor and lieutenant governor of Massachusetts for the presidency...only to watch them slaughtered in broad daylight?

Now, we're gonna nominate a US Senator from Illinois with no military experience (in the middle of a war) but who has ties to a minister with a history of fiery speeches screaming about white people?

If that weren't enough, has anyone in the party recognized that the last time we elected a President of the United States who wasn't from the sunbelt was Jack Kennedy? Think of how our overall population distribution and demographics have changed since then.

Begala's right on the money. This ain't gonna happen. There's no way.

[Sunnyshine]

47. Begala is not the canary in the cave- and far from it.

Dukakis and McGovern has suddenly become everyone's favorite false dichotomy this week and it reeks of unfounded paranoia. As someone who has studied the political science of these candidates, it is ridiculous to try to equate them to Obama. Their differences are night and day. I realize a lot. Everyone is different, and candidate algebra is really bad math.

Hillary has no military experience, and Bush does? Look where that got us. War is not just about military power. Jeez. That's the problem we are having now, in both warS. No diplomacy and no political development. That calls for someone who has political skills, not more obliterating cowboy diplomacy. Seriously, this is not the time to be throwing more Warlords into the mix.

My aunt is a Federal Judge, and she has been over there trying to train Iraqi and Afghani judges, and she said they have no clue about federal laws or how to govern from them. They are tribal, and the only catalyst for change in both of these countries is reconciliation and reconstruction. Period. Not military. We have plenty of military personnel to provide Sen.Obama with advice.

So, in our studies and in our honest opinion, we think Sen. Obama is beyond qualified to serve as the CIC because he has a brilliant mind when it comes to Constitutional Law and depth of knowledge to unite us behind our common causes. THAT is what we need and it is exactly what has been missing from the Oval Office for decades. Sen. Obama has been an elected official far longer than Sen. Clinton. That is a fact. We are watching history in the making!

Everyone knows there are crazy preachers that say outrageous things. The church itself is made up of its community, not just the dude on the stage waving is hands. You should not condemn the whole congregation because Faux News took 3 parts of his sermons and exaggerated them into a controversy. Manufacturing scandals is the job of corporate media. Smear-by-association.

Instead, you should be wondering why America and the MSM never addresses the likes of White Radical Republican preachers and hatemongers like Hagee, Robertson, Phelps, White, Haggard, Parsley, et al. Separation of C/S is crumbling, thanks to them. Rev.Wright is mild in comparison to that bunch. I don't agree with any em', and do not choose my POTUS by looking at his retired pastor. I think the Obama family tried to be a positive influence in a church that needed diversity and dissent.

[N4457S]

42. And...

...do you know why?

Anyone who has old folks in the family knows they are less flexible and less amenable to change. I grew up in one of the oldest parts of the country there is, demographically speaking, and I can tell you for sure that's true.

The Democratic party isn't going away...but it is likely to be a less progressive body as time goes on. There are many reasons for this but the major ones are (1) an aging population and (2) a population that's less willing to pay for social experiments and new libraries and schools or anything else it doesn't think we need. Whether we actually "need" it or not isn't the issue. They pay the taxes and they turn out in massive numbers to vote and they're gonna get their way.

You can already see this in the Rust Belt. Conversely, you don't see it in the SF Bay Area or Massachusetts or in other progressive enclaves. WHY? Because people there have money, and a toleration for taxation and higher living costs that are significantly above the national average.

It's all about priorities. Theirs and yours are different. There are more of them than there are of you. Game, Set, Match.

So, if you're a progressive trying to change a place like Ohio or Pennsylvania or Florida...save your energy. The powers that be don't like you and they'll never trust you and they don't have the fucking money to do whatever the hell it is you want to do anyhow. You're trying to put lipstick on a pig. That never works.

My advice is that you relocate.

[Sunnyshine]

49. Relocate and give up? Never.

That's just not my style. What I do for a living wouldn't permit it and I know it's worth my time in trying to help our country solve problems. My energy is never wasted, it is time well spent. Service to my country is a life long endeavor. One that I am not afraid to embrace and won't back down from. The people deserve to have truth be told, regardless of the powers that be.

I am not putting lipstick on a pig, as there is no need to. It is an unhealthy hog that is dying.
The Dem party will get more progressive as time goes on, because it is doing so as we speak.

No taxation without equal representation! I am for that. The older voters have to deal with necessary changes, like it or not. Ill-chosen candidates are the threat to their wellbeing, not folks like me. We are all Americans, and we should look to that as a dynamic that unites us.

Instead of hyperbole like this: "people don't like you" and "your social experiments."

Good grief, what is it you are talking about, especially when you have no clue as to what it is "I want". Whatever I want is assuredly not for self gain. It is for bettering the lives of everyone as a whole and keeping our nation from sinking into a pit of depression.

Live strong, and let love rule. :patriot:

[N4457S]

54. I've Been Watching...

...campaigns for almost thirty years, and each time it's the same old saw. The old people vote, the old people in both parties are consistently more conservative than the general population, they get what they want and that's it. The college kids don't show up. This isn't 1968.

Let me be even more frank. African-American voter turnout stinks...for the same reason that computer literacy among African Americans isn't anywhere near what it is among other demographic groups. Why? Culture and tradition.

If you think for a minute that people in Ohio and Pennsylvania (the only two places I know of where the N word is still used on a regular basis) are going to vote for Barack Obama for President of the United States, you're out of your mind. Begala agrees. Carville agrees. Harold Ickes knows it all too well.

We're gonna end up with McCain as a one termer (because of the brutal recession we're about to have) and then probably Hillary in 2012 if she can manage to win Florida. She did fairly well there and also performed much better in Ohio and Pennsylvania than I would have guessed.

This is what's coming. You just watch and see.

It's the United States of America, not the United States of northern California and Massachusetts!

[Sunnyshine]

55. Dem's tripled voter turnout this year and holding massive voter registration drives

All across the country. All summer long this will be happening. I've registered over 120 people this month alone. Multiply that by 50 states, and 1,000+ VR volunteers per state. What may have been true in the past is certainly not cardinal truth today. Dem's will be given a mandate from the people because 80% of voters think our country is on the wrong track.

GOP is imploding. People in mass will vote AGAINST them this year. We're not out of our mind.
McBush is though, and he will lose the election the very first debate he has with Barack.

The GOP ran our country and other countries into chaos- by using divisive politics and manufacturing consent against the will of the nation. In the research numbers I have seen, voters are turning out in droves to get them out of office. Down ticket races are turning out for Dem's already, that is a sure sign of shifting priorities. Demographics are breaking every prior record known.

The Dem's will be victorious in November. Take it to the bank.

Carville and Begala are not Gods and Ickes is an adviser to Clinton camp. All are Clinton loyalist. Of course they are going to plot arguments that favor HRC, while trying to undercut BHO's run. I purposely don't put much faith in these insider folks, because they are a part of the corporate disease. They're invested in conservative-lite policies, and not getting dividends on that portfolio. Party power is shifting to "at large" mode, finally. New investors are key to gaining a sustainable voter base.

I live in Ohio, and most people do not use the "N word". There are many, but not most. Pennsylvania and West Virginia are probably the most racially challenged population. Good thing we are going to elect the first AA President to help raise our collective conscience. It's been a long time coming. :pals:

[N4457S]

57. This Is All...

...fine and good, but a lot of older people don't blog, don't read Democratic Underground and don't care.

Obama won't win Ohio, Pennsylvania or West Virginia. He just won't.

I heard the same stories about voter registration in 1988, 2000, 2004 and now this year.

It's always "we're gonna get'em this year"...and in 1992 and 1996 we did but that was only because Perot took away enough of the popular vote that Clinton could win with 43 percent. Geez, we sound like the Cleveland Browns!

[Sunnyshine]

58. Lol...Oh nooos! Not the Browns! Go Bengals? (on a good day)

The VR drives of the past have been weak and unorganized when you look at the hard numbers they didn't churn out. I think the VR's as of now, have surpassed the goals of the prior drives already.

The moral majority has flaked off here in Ohio, which is on the verge of going purplish-blue. No doubt that it will be a hard task, but the Buckeye state could surprise us much like Indiana did. Pennsylvania is double difficult, but not impossible. WV would take divine intervention.

However, we are making many other red states very nervous, especially in the west and south. People changing their affiliation (from R to D) like no other time before, and this important factor was missing in 96, 00, 04, 06. Familiar demographic predictions from past elections are tanking.

I'll be working my head off and my heart out during this election. People want to talk about the state of our nation, so ask question and listen and listen. They like to know we all still care about what each other thinks. Even if we don't always agree. Kindness and understanding is a cure.

The next 5 months will be spent talking to those skeptics about the guy with a funny name and the hope of finding commonality to unite our country. I think once they see Obama and McSame side by side, they'll know exactly why Obama is the best candidate to serve as our CIC.

[Sunnyshine]

51. Barack will ELIMINATE taxes for seniors making less than $50,000

He will work hard to make sure the older population is the best taken care of it's ever been!

* Reform Corporate Bankruptcy Laws to Protect Workers and Retirees: Current bankruptcy laws protect banks before workers. Obama will protect pensions by putting promises to workers higher on the list of debts that companies cannot shed; ensuring that the bankruptcy courts do not demand more sacrifice from workers than executives; telling companies that they cannot issue executive bonuses while cutting worker pensions; increasing the amount of unpaid wages and benefits workers can claim in court; and limiting the circumstances under which retiree benefits can be reduced.

* Require Full Disclosure of Company Pension Investments: Obama will ensure that all employees who have company pensions receive detailed annual disclosures about their pension fund's investments. This will provide retirees important resources to make their pension fund more secure.

* Eliminate Income Taxes for Seniors Making Less Than $50,000: Obama will eliminate all income taxation of seniors making less than $50,000 per year. This will provide an immediate tax cut averaging $1,400 to 7 million seniors and relieve millions from the burden of filing tax returns.

* Create Automatic Workplace Pensions: Obama's retirement security plan will automatically enroll workers in a workplace pension plan. Under his plan, employers who do not currently offer a retirement plan, will be required to enroll their employees in a direct-deposit IRA account that is compatible to existing direct-deposit payroll systems. Employees may opt-out if they choose. Experts estimate that this program will increase the savings participation rate for low and middle-income workers from its current 15 percent level to around 80 percent.

* Expand Retirement Savings Incentives for Working Families: Obama will ensure savings incentives are fair to all workers by creating a generous savings match for low and middle-income Americans. His plan will match 50 percent of the first $1,000 of savings for families that earn less than $75,000. The savings match will be automatically deposited into designated personal accounts. Over 80 percent of these savings incentives will go to new savers.

* Prevent Age Discrimination: Obama will fight job discrimination for aging employees by strengthening the Age Discrimination in Employment Act and empowering the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission to prevent all forms of discrimination.

Affordable Health Care

* Provide Cheaper Prescription Drugs: Our seniors pay the highest prices in the world for brand-name drugs. To lower drug costs, Obama will allow the federal government to negotiate for lower drug prices for the Medicare program, just as it does to lower prices for our veterans. He also supports allowing seniors to import safe prescription drugs from overseas, and will prevent pharmaceutical companies from blocking cheap and safe generic drugs from the market.

* Protect and Strengthen Medicare: Obama is committed to the long-term strength of the Medicare program. He will reduce waste in the Medicare system, including eliminating subsidies to the private insurance Medicare Advantage program, and tackle fundamental health care reform to improve the quality and efficiency of our healthcare system. Obama supports closing the "doughnut hole" in the Medicare Part D prescription drug program.

* Provide Transparency to Medicare Prescription Drug Plans: Many seniors are enrolled in Medicare prescription drug plans that are actually more expensive for them than other available plans. Obama will require companies to send Medicare beneficiaries a full list of the drugs and fees they paid the previous year to help seniors determine which plans can better reduce their out-of-pocket costs and improve their health.

* Strengthen Long-Term Care Options: As president, Obama will work to give seniors choices about their care, consistent with their needs, and not biased towards institutional care. He will work to reform the financing of long term care to protect seniors and families. He will work to improve the quality of elder care, including by training more nurses and health care workers.

Protect and Honor Seniors

* Ensure Heating Assistance: Obama will increase funding for the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP) which helps low-income citizens — many of them seniors — pay their winter heating and summer cooling bills.

* Support Senior Volunteer Efforts: Retired Americans have a wide range of skills and knowledge to contribute to local and national public service efforts. Obama will engage more interested seniors into public service opportunities by expanding and improving programs like Senior Corps to connect seniors with quality volunteer opportunities.

Barack Obama's Record

* Social Security and Pensions: In the midst of the 2005 debate over Social Security privatization, Obama gave a major speech at the National Press Club forcefully arguing against privatization. He also repeatedly voted against Republican amendments that aimed to privatize Social Security or cut benefits. Obama has also voted to force companies to properly fund their pension plans so taxpayers don't end up footing the bill.

* Medicare: Obama has supported a number efforts to strengthen Medicare, including voting for legislation to allow Medicare to negotiate for cheaper prescription drug prices and to extend the enrollment period for low-income beneficiaries.

* Protecting Seniors: After reports that lobbyists, but not the American people, received information about the most unsafe nursing homes in the country, Barack Obama demanded the Department of Health and Human Services release that information to the public. Following Obama's letter, the names of the four Iowa care facilities cited for unsafe care were released to the public. His efforts follow his successful efforts in Illinois to make nursing home information public and strengthen elder abuse laws. http://www.barackobama.com/issues/socialsecurity/

[WillyToad]

32. Obama hasn't 'stooped to her level'...

...because his supporters have been doing it for him, in his name. When Randy Rhodes spewed her filthy little diatribe and Obama refused to denounce it (at an event promoted by his campaign website) I knew that all of this 'new politics, and 'hope' and 'unity' was a just hot air. Obama's supporters have been openly running a smear campaign in his benifit.

Bush did the exact thing in 2000 and 2004, staying 'above the fray,' while his supporters attacked and smeared his opponant.

http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/08/28/moore_rove_swift_boat/">Karl Rove, smear artist.

[N4457S]

41. Yep...

...that's true.

It's the circular firing squad. Again and again.

[Sunnyshine]

46. No, MOST Obama supporters are not doing that.

There are certainly many in blog world who are doing the eye poking and chest pounding, but most Dem supporters are not on the internet talking politics in sound bites. Either way, the circular firing squad is coming from both candidates supporters, and to deny that is dishonest. Blog wars are not a valid reason to cast out fishing nets for all members of this party.

2 people in a room = 3 opinions. IT is what it is. :dilemma:

Randi Rhodes does not speak for his supporters, nor should he address her drunken tirade. We have so many BIGGER problems in this country, and everyone went back to High School. Talk Radio is a divisive tool, so welcome to America's reality; Where thinking for oneself is hard thing to do!

The accusations being thrown around works both ways Willy, and it makes the entire discussion moot.
Hillary is Rove. Obama is Rove. See what I'm saying? I don't think that, but it's what we are being subjected to.
You say blah. I say blah blah. She say blah blah blah. He say blah blah blah blah. Round and round we go. :crazy: Sheep like hysteria.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[happygoluckytoyou]

36. PUTTING THE LICK BACK IN REPUBLICANS

we need to keep the republicans proud of their party....

to the candidate from arizona..... JOHN "THE BUSH REPUBLICAN" MCCAIN.... i say...
be proud of your party and your leader... wear his likeness on a lapel pin, near your heart... hug him and show pictures of you together...

you know... i will NEVER say your name, without your FULL NAME...

rock on JOHN "THE BUSH REPUBLICAN" MCCAIN ! ! ! !

[VotesForWomen]

48. another naive fool who thinks Obama's 'different.' well, we all live and learn. nt

[Catherina]

56. "The beginning of the NEW Democratic Party"

You don't know what those words do to me!

:applause: