Here's why the Clintons are doing SERIOUS damage to the country:

[dailykoff]

Obama will win the nomination and in all likelihood the presidency, barring horrific surprises. That much I think we all know on some level.

Unfortunately, it isn't enough just to win. He has to win BIG to actually have the firepower to defeat the highly organized, highly illegal MIC and their many tentacles including the media and the Clintons themselves. Obama can spend the next four years fighting Rezkogate and Pastorgate or whatever sludge the RAND corporations are cooking up at the moment, or he can clear the decks for the changes we're all hoping for.

By aggravating racial and religious divisions and other revolting tactics the Clintons are handicapping Obama and the rest of the Dem candidates so that they'll succeed less spectacularly than they might had the Clintons actually been campaigning for Democrats instead of for their PNAC puppetmasters or whoever the hell they're working for.

That's been obvious to many of us for months. Why the rest of the coutnry hasn't caught on I can only guess. :shrug:

[SleeplessinSoCal]

1. Check out Robert Kagan at the Charlie Rose website.....

He was a guest last night and he's one of McCain's foreign policy advisors as well as a founding NeoCon who won't call himself a NeoCon.

Obama is the only person in the clear on all of this crappola.

[dailykoff]

8. Thanks I'll check it out.

They come in all shapes and sizes, including yellow pantsuits.

[Rene]

36. read www.attacktimeline.com if you want to see who's really damaged this campaign....bho

with his karl-rovian tactics from months and months back.

[cui bono]

40. ah.. a fair and balanced timeline

and the bho at the end of your subject line says it all. Why are you on this board?

[Evergreen Emerald]

2. Its all Clinton's fault!

You have re-written history. Obama's campaign used race to win by shouting "Racism!" from the rooftops of SC as a planned strategy. They tried it again in NC when Clyburn went on show after show to attempt to re-stir the "RAcism!" pot.

[dailykoff]

4. No, he simply said he's against stupid wars.

Hillary could have said the same thing but then it would be just another lie wouldn't it. The problem Hillary keeps running into is that there aren't enough gullible people.

[sfaprog]

6. I'm sure you'll have no trouble providing a link to back up that bullshit

And hilariously, even if someone in the campaign did complain about racism, wouldn't logic dictate that those claims come AFTER the racism, in this case Bill smugly comparing Obama to Jesse Jackson for no reason other than skin color.

And I suppose you still see no racism in the Clintons pushing Wright to superdelegates :eyes:

[Evergreen Emerald]

9. Actually, they started the shouts of "Racism!" before Jackson comment

They timed it before the SC primary, not after.

You all want cites? What the hell? Where have you been that you do not remember what happened a few short weeks ago? I know Obama and the press have been pounding HATECLINTON into your heads, but seriously most of you seem to have significant memory problems.

[sfaprog]

14. So that link'll be coming shortly then, right?

I obviously think you're wrong, do you think ignoring my request for a link and repeating these lies will make them stick any more?

[highplainsdem]

47. Link:

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/17133626.html


Sean Wilentz is the historian whose assessment of Bush as the worst president in history was applauded by so many DUers a couple of years ago:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/profile/story/9961300/the_worst_president_in_history

Please note what he said about historians tending to be cautious in their assessments. He would not have written an op-ed piece saying that "Obama was the first to play the race card" if he didn't believe the facts supported that conclusion, and that his drawing that conclusion would not harm his reputation as "one of America's leading historians" (quoting Rolling Stone).

[dailykoff]

52. Link: Two fellow TNR writers denounce Wilentz's smear

Two fellow TNR writers denounce Sean Wilentz's "Race Card" smear

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5314720&mesg_id=5314720

[highplainsdem]

66. One's a columnist/editor, the other is a long-time law school colleague of Obama's.

Neither is an historian, and the academic is as likely to have a pro-Obama bias as Wilentz is to have a pro-Clinton bias. Wilentz seems to have more solid academic credentials, especially for analyzing history.

Thanks for the links, though. Wilentz's article on the delusional style in American punditry is an interesting read, and it meshes both with what Glen Ford -- the progressive editor of Black Agenda Report -- has had to say about the delusions of many Obama supporters and how they project their dreams and hopes onto him

http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=586

http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=537


and with what FAIR discovered analyzing the media's pro-Obama bias, already evident early last year.

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=3094

Editing to add the link.

By the way, Zengerle's criticism of Wilentz's explanation of how Obama is playing the race card was a tortured attempt to explain what was supposedly wrong with Bill Clinton's reference to Jesse Jackson's caucus victories in South Carolina (supposedly, according to Zengerle, even the fact that Obama won a heavy majority among blacks wasn't relevant if Obama got 24% as opposed to 10% of the white vote; never mind that it's not a significant enough difference to invalidate the other points Wilentz made).

And nothing in Zengerle's response to Wilentz has anything to do with the observation Wilentz made about this having started in December, with the Obama campaign suggesting (and their supporters echoing) the lie that just mentioning Obama's cocaine use was racist.

[dailykoff]

All three write for TNR, and two of them denounced the other.

Can you guess which one?

[merh]

97. Sean Wilentz is a hillary supporter having donated to her

campaign. It is suspected that he hopes to be employed as the Clinton official historian.

As has been pointed out to you, other notable historians disagree with his assessment.

[symbolman]

99. Maybe we don't have so many voices battling in our heads

and recall things more clearly than you..

You are beginning to sound pathological at this point, and what you are doing is SMEARING Obama, the Actual Potential Next President instead of the nice lady in your fantasy world...

Cut the shit, if Obama had used Racism Many of us would not be supporting him, instead of your small crew of shrill screwjobs..

Besides sounding Sick with this, you are entering ParanoiaLand from which few Return :)

[Cha]

31. Is she too White?

[cliffordu]

7. Hmmm...do you have any evidence at all here or are you just

sniveling the same poor Hillary talking points.

She lost of her own (cough, tuzla cough) accord (cough, markpenn cough)....



She's done. She needs to shuffle off the stage.

[cui bono]

41. When you respond to race-baiting by calling it out you are not the one using race.

duh.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Evergreen Emerald]

50. I see that you are following in the footsteps of your candidate

unity and all. Lovely.

[shadowknows69]

51. Obama called you delusional?

You are farther gone than I thought. I suggest full commital.

[mrbluto]

73. Look - there's a simple way to settle this issue.

If you wonder if a comment is racist then just ask an Obama supporter.

They'll let you know.

They've been of enormous assistance to me - I'd didn't even know that some of my comments were racist, but they let me know. I didn't even have to ask!

Apparently discussing the positive aspects of other candidates is racist. As an Edwards supporter I was informed of that quickly. But did you know that pointing out how flawed the primary process is is also racist? Or wishing there would be a brokered convention that chooses neither Hillary or Obama? Yup. Both racist to even consider.

Thank god the nice people came out of the woodwork to demolish the possibility of discussing those issues set me straight.

[4_Legs_Good]

79. LOL. Hillary would have been out in New Hampshire had it not been for "Iron my shirt!"

Please don't pretend she's not playing the same game.

David

[VotesForWomen]

80. yep; Clinton-hating is not just for repugs anymore. nt

[ShaneGR]

3. Question, if Clinton hadnt gotten those issues front and center....

Wouldn't have that those same issues on the table for McSame? Seriously, quit you're wining about Clinton. Obama has taken everything she could dish out, and it helps him in the GE vs McSame.

[dailykoff]

5. But McCain isn't doing it and doesn't want to do it.

He needed a completely shameless loser to do the dirty work frankly.

[MichiganVote]

10. Another BS post w/o anything to back it up.

[dailykoff]

11. See for yourself:

Hillary's January 23 Meet the Press interview (clip):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPMSeBXdbx4

Transcript:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6853606/

They've been at it since January.

[MichiganVote]

15. None of this convinces me the Clintons are racist. Anymore than the Obama's are soft.

[dailykoff]

17. Well, I heard that interview and it convinced me.

There was a story about it the next morning on the NPR news and I heard it loud and clear.

[highplainsdem]

48. Not January. It was started in December, by the Obama campaign.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/17133626.html

Had she truly conspired to inflame racial animosities in January and February, her campaign would have brought up the Rev. Jeremiah Wright and his incendiary sermons. But the Clinton campaign did not. And when the Wright stories and videos finally did break through in the mass media, they came not from Clinton's supporters but from Fox News Network.

Although Wright had until recently been obscure to the American public, political insiders and reporters have long known about him. On March 6, 2007, the New York Times reported that Obama had disinvited Wright from speaking at his announcement because, as Wright said Obama told him, "You can get kind of rough in the sermons." By then, conservative commentators had widely denounced Wright. His performances in the pulpit were easily accessible on DVD, direct from his church. But Clinton, despite her travails, elected to remain silent.

Instead, she had to fight back against a deliberately contrived strategy to make her and her husband look like race-baiters. Obama's supporters and operatives, including his chief campaign strategist David Axelrod, seized on accurate and historically noncontroversial statements and supplied a supposedly covert racist subtext that they then claimed the calculating Clinton campaign had inserted.

In December, Bill Shaheen, a Clinton campaign co-chair in New Hampshire, wondered aloud whether Obama's admitted youthful abuse of cocaine might hurt him in the general election. Obama's strategists insisted that Shaheen's mere mention of cocaine was suggestive and inappropriate - even though the scourge of cocaine abuse has long cut across both racial and class lines. Pro-Obama press commentators, including New York Times columnist Frank Rich, then whipped the story into a full racial subtext, charging that the Clintons had, in Rich's words, "ghettoized" Obama "into a cocaine user."

The rest of Wilentz's op-ed piece explains how this was continued by the Obama campaign.

Wilentz is the historian who wrote the Rolling Stone article about Bush as the worst president in history:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/profile/story/9961300/the_worst_president_in_history

[dailykoff]

55. Wilentz again, the world famous Hillary pimp.

Two fellow TNR writers denounce Sean Wilentz's "Race Card" smear

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5314720&mesg_id=5314720

[EFerrari]

63. Shaheen was slime and he was let go for imaging Obama as a drug dealer.

The Obama campaign didn't do that.

[WinkyDink]

76. "imaging"?

[americanstranger]

95. Wilentz = HACK.

Got anything by an objective observer?

If so, we'll talk. Wilentz DQs himself because he was on the record as an HRC supporter long before this article.

- as

[The_Casual_Observer]

12. If only Clinton were responsible for Rezko & Wright you might have a point.

Other than the one under your hat.

[OzarkDem]

13. You sound like a Republican

when are you going to start sticking up for the Democratic party?

[dailykoff]

16. Somewhere along the line you got your parties mixed up.

Drinking Clinton kool-aid will do that.

[OzarkDem]

18. If you're a Democrat

start talking like one.

[dailykoff]

20. You mean like supporting the Dem nominee?

That kind of Democrat?

[OzarkDem]

22. Like supporting the party

and supporting the party's process of choosing candidates.

I support lots of Dem nominees and, as always, will be working for many of them in the upcoming election season at the local, state and national level.

BTW, how many Dem campaigns have you worked for in the last year?

[dailykoff]

24. The party has an election to prepare for and a convention to organize

and it chose its nominee back in January. That's four freaking months WASTED! :mad:

[OzarkDem]

30. The race is tied

and not every Dem has spoken.

Make your case at the Convention instead of letting corporate donors buy Obama's candidacy for the party.

Dem voters decide, not corporate hacks.

See you at the Convention.

[dailykoff]

38. The race has NEVER b een tied.

Hillary had more crony connections at the start but she's even lost her superdelegate lead. She's been behind since Iowa and you know it. And I really don't give a shit what Kentucky has to say, the nominee is clearly Obama.

[cui bono]

42. hm.... having almost 200 more of something is tied?

odd.

[shellgame26]

100. the race is tied...right right

Delegates: Pledged Super Total Needed
Obama 1,612.5 297.5 1,910 115

Clinton 1,442.5 276.5 1,719 306

Remaining 189 222 411
(2,025 delegates needed for victory)

[SwampG8r]

98. choosing using the party rules?

your candidate has a history of dissatisfaction with DNC rules
or has the meme changed already?

[cui bono]

44. Have you written to Bill Clinton and told him that?

Or is it okay for him to say the Republicans are more progressive than Democrats with the purpose of slamming a fellow Dem by doing so?

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dailykoff]

21. This is not a McClurkin thread

so you can go back to what you were doing. :hi:

[ruggerson]

23. Your entire reference as far as gay issues go is confined to McClurkin

and making snide, bigoted references to Clinton's female aide, Huma Abedin.

You just proved my point.

[dailykoff]

25. And yours isn't?

Please.

[ruggerson]

27. dude, we just won marriage rights in the biggest state in the country

DESPITE people like you. We won. You lost.

[dailykoff]

32. Congratulations, I'm sure the wedding industry is thrilled.

What that has to do with this thread I have no idea.

[ruggerson]

46. when one is a bigot

it means that one cannot process logic. Hence your OP.

I don't even know why you're on a progressive site.

[dailykoff]

53. Says a guy who accuses Obama of racism.

You're killing me. :rofl:

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dailykoff]

68. funny you should mention Woolf, who ADMITS SHE'S LYING

in her opening paragraphs, and yes, she uses the word "lies." But nobody remembers that, and legions of deluded freshmen are convinced she's writing history even though she absolutely, patently, and obviously isn't. But then that's the pattern with Hillary fans, too.

[mrbluto]

70. How dare you criticize "Dear Nominee"!

Just wait until he is "Dear Leader"! Then you're gonna get it!

It's their turn! Don't you get that?

The zealots around here called the election in February, I'm surprised we even bothered to continue with the this charade of a primary.

Next time you post please check with an Obama zealot before posting, so you can be informed what is, and what isn't, appropriate subject matter. (though I'm sure you could guess on your own what they'll say.)

[WillyToad]

26. They are doing no damage to anything but your mental health...

...and that is more your fault than theirs.

I'll send a WAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaambulance right away!

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cha]

28. I think it's been obvious for many years..and your

analysis is dead on. And, anyone who trusts them at this point does so at their own peril and should have their gullibility factor checked.

[dailykoff]

35. How people can believe their records are identical I don't know.

I guess they believe whatever the teevee tells them to. Anyway thanks! :hi:

[Cha]

37. Thank you~

:hi:

[DU GrovelBot]

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This week is our second quarter 2008 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
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[DemocratKR]

34. I respectfully disagree with you

[invictus]

39. K & R. GOBAMA!

[ccharles000]

43. I disagree.

I think the Clinton's are wonderful people and have not done any damage to the country.

[cui bono]

45. Well Bill did send millions of jobs out of the country with NAFTA...

so that's not harmful?

[Skip Intro]

54. The Clintons are part of the Military Industrial Complex monster that hero Barack is up against.

wtf is this, Narnia 3?

[dailykoff]

56. So you're saying Eisenhower was wrong?

Take it up with Ike. :shrug:

[Skip Intro]

57. I don't believe Ike said any of the bullshit in the OP.

Please prove me wrong with quotes.

[dailykoff]

59. How long have you been here again?

And you've never seen the Eisenhower quotation? Good grief. Give me a minute, I'm on dialup.

[Skip Intro]

61. Ike is no source for your rant. Show me a quote from him linking the Clintons to the MIC.

Just because you use the phrase MIC doesn't mean Ike said what you are saying. My God. If this were a high school report sourcing Ike for your rant I'd give you an f.

[dailykoff]

62. If this were high school, maybe Hillary would have a chance.

Come to think of it though, even high schoolers aren't that gullible.

[Skip Intro]

67. you still looking for that quote?

[dailykoff]

69. Read all about it: "Military-Industrial Complex Speech,

Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961," from Public Papers of the Presidents, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1960, p. 1035- 1040:

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.


link: http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html

[Skip Intro]

72. How does that quote back up your OP? Where does he say the Clintons are a tentacle of the MIC?

please, explain it to me.

[dailykoff]

75. You see chief, Eisenhower was writing forty-eight years ago.

He wasn't talking about the Clintons because at the time they were busy fornicating in their parents station wagons. I'm talking about now. Starting to get the picture? :crazy:

[Skip Intro]

84. Please. Your OP was a wide-ranging rant against the Clintons, and then you claim Ike has your back.

You refuse to, because you can't, show how his speech, even just the part you quoted, backs up your OP assertions. You even say in the OP, about the Clintons, "or whoever they're working for..."

As Matthews said to that dopey rw radio jock, I don't think you know what you're talking about.

[dailykoff]

85. Just a reminder of who voted for IWR, Kyl-Lieberman, cluster bombs and torture:

CLINTON:

- NO on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.

- YES on Kyle/Lieberman bill that sets the stage for the US to take military action against Iran.

- YES on the Iraq War Resolution.

- Refused to sign the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge.


OBAMA:

- YES on Amendment No. 4882 that would have banned the use of cluster bombs in civilian areas.

- Drafted legislation stating that Congress did not grant President Bush the authority to attack Iran, either through the Kyl-Lieberman amendment or any resolution previously adopted.

- Vigorously opposed the Iraq War and took a public stand against the Iraq War Resolution

- Signed the AFC Anti-Torture Pledge.

[Darth_Kitten]

92. Hillary got straight A+ and Obama was the casual B- student?

:shrug:

A woman always has to be better than any man. ;)

[BenDavid]

58. So, all of HRC's votes are from bigots and racists? Is that what you

are trying to expound? Now if that is the case then obama's ass is toast come November. Cause there are a whole hell of a lot more so called bigots and racists out there that will not vote for obama and cast their lot with McCain. Maybe what you need is 40 million voting age AA's to vote for obama.

I never seen so many obama folks bring up race in a majority of their posts and then turn right around and blame we HRC supporters of injecting race into this campaign....OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH excuse me, it was obama and his campaign that brought race and the race card into this campaign and then blamed HRC.

[dailykoff]

60. Revealing.

No, that's not what I wrote or what I meant, but I'm not surprised you would perceive it that way.

[shellgame26]

102. well everybody knows where you stand Ben David

Hillary Clinton boasts of support from "white Americans"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfidftLe5Z0
Project much?

[bridgit]

64. You of course mean half of the rest of the Democratic party, right?

"Why the rest of the coutnry hasn't caught on I can only guess"

[dailykoff]

71. I mean anyone who hasn't figured it out.

My experience here online and IRL is that most people haven't.

[bridgit]

78. *it* is a very large & wide piece of subject matter...

care to elaborate?

[WinkyDink]

74. The Clintons won't be in the polling booths with us. It's on every voter.

[dailykoff]

77. If advertising didn't work, it wouldn't be a billion-dollar industry.

They're drummers.

[Major Hogwash]

81. They're already costing us down ticket races in the fall.

Every time they go on tv and say something ignorant, the Republicans tape their comments to use against us later in the fall.

They're slandering everyone who supports Obama, they are trying to make him someone to avoid in the fall.

[susankh4]

82. There is a simple solution that would result in a landslide win.

Ya'll know what it is.

Now let's see the "uniter" unite us!

[dailykoff]

83. Do you mean a unity ticket?

If I thought it would help I'd be all for it. In fact I was ready to get behind Hillary until she got flattened in Iowa, but now I don't think it's possible.

Unlike Edwards and Kerry say, Hillary has spent the last four months ferociously swiftboating Obama. Apart from his own distaste (hey, he's human), I think a unity ticket at this point would scream hypocrisy, compromise, sleazy political deal-making, and everything else Obama frankly represents a break FROM. So I just don't think there's a chance at this point.

[dailykoff]

86. Just to sum up: letting Bill and Hill push voters into the arms of the GOP

in a few more states is most definitely NOT a good thing, either for Obama or EVERY SINGLE DEM REPRESENTATIVE who will be on the ticket with him in the fall.

[QC]

87. And I bet they're the ones who poisoned Ted Kennedy, too!

:crazy:

[VotesForWomen]

88. Obama's jack-booted thugs are doing far more damage than the clintons are. nt

[kid a]

89. you sound bitter, very bitter and hypnotized - snap out of it

[HCE SuiGeneris]

94. Here's a hint who you are responding to...

"Glory Days!"

Yes, bitter and racist.

[theHandpuppet]

90. This place is starting to sound more like Free Republic every day

:eyes:

[Darth_Kitten]

91. Maybe it's the revolting sexism and low-mindedness of his followers......

who are daily turning more and more people off. Go right ahead.......

[OzarkDem]

93. If Obama is elected he will govern like a Republican

His advisors have adopted most of the discredited economic policies of the pro-business, conservative think tanks.

Obama will be causing his own problems if he makes it to the WH, and will have no one to blame but himself, his inexperience and his arrogance in lying to Democratic voters so he can govern as Wall Street tells him to do.

[dailykoff]

96. Right, just like a WalMart lawyer who wants to obliterate Iran.

Not.

[symbolman]

101. Thanks for shining the light on these assholes Dailykoff

the Paranoiacs around here exist only to wear everyone down and waste bandwidth, they don't change a single mind, but in their desire to make it appear they have the ability to "think" they just pester the shit out of passersby..

Reminds me of my three year old who can appear fervent and mean exactly what he says as he loops or sputters nonsense..

The only problem is they get to vote, luckily there's not enough of them to matter, and their whole Hostage Situation is only pissing people off, the whole "fuck or walk" "Wahhh! I'll take my ball and to home!" Scenario voting for McCain like they were Democrats AT ALL!!

We'll be seeing these same folks with feathers falling from their mouths later, Black Feathers, but they'll never admit it was Crow they ate (or even Jim Crow :) )..

Thanks for sticking up for the Good Guy, wait, is THAT Sexist? Such PC bullshit, a right wing invention, and I believe that if Eisenhower had witnessed PC he would have warned us about THAT as well :)

Those arguing with you Eisenhower analysis might want to read "The Iron Cross" Speech, which these days makes Clintonites look EXACTLY like Republicans, and Ike a Dem..

Thanks!

[Perry Logan]

103. Obama can't win. His people have alienated half the party.