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Can ANY Democrat win on national security?

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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-04 12:18 PM
Original message
Can ANY Democrat win on national security?
A party at war with its past, its time and itself . . . from today's New York Times Magazine . . . a bit disconcerting if you're a Democrat . . .

The Things They Carry
By JAMES TRAUB
January 4, 2004

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/04/magazine/04DEMOCRATS.html

"A few weeks ago, I asked Howard Dean how, given his vehement opposition to the war in Iraq, he felt he could overcome the Democrats' reputation as the antiwar party. ''I think you're still in the old paradigm, which says that they're the party of strength and we're the party of weakness,'' Dean admonished me as I sat across from him on his campaign plane. The chaos in Iraq, he said, had upended the old stereotypes. In John F. Kennedy's day, Dean pointed out, the Democrats enjoyed the reputation as the party of resolution. ''I think this may be the year to regain it, oddly enough,'' Dean said. ''Oddly enough'' is right. It seems awfully unlikely that in the first presidential election since 9/11, against a president who has spent most of his administration carefully cultivating and reinforcing his role as commander in chief, the Democrats can regain the status as the party of national security, which they lost during the Vietnam War. But that is precisely what party strategists were hoping through the fall as American troops got caught in the mayhem of Iraq and the nation's standing in the world plummeted lower and lower. And they had reason to think so. A poll conducted in November by the nonpartisan PIPA-Knowledge Networks found that 42 percent of Americans said that the president's handling of Iraq decreased the likelihood of voting for him, versus 35 percent who said it had increased the likelihood. Another poll taken around the same time found that a majority of respondents believed that President Bush is ''too quick to use our military abroad'' and that he practices a ''go-it-alone foreign policy that hurts our relations with allies.'' Earlier, Democracy Corps, a Democratic polling and policy organization headed by the consultants James Carville and Robert Shrum and the pollster Stanley B. Greenberg, published a study with the following conclusion: ''When Democrats put out a clear message on national security, it now plays Bush's post-9/11, post-Iraq message to a draw.''

"It's not just the war in Iraq that prompted these hopes of realignment; it's the Bush administration's penchant for bellicosity, its barely concealed contempt for the United Nations and for many of America's traditional allies, its apparent confusion about how to deal with North Korea. Even some traditional internationalist Republicans believed that the Bush administration had abandoned many of the central tenets of the last several generations of national security policy while squandering much of the global good will that came in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. And for the chief presidential candidates, or at least for Dr. Dean, for Gen. Wesley Clark and, intermittently, Senator John Kerry, the war in Iraq became the central metaphor for the larger failure of the Bush administration to make Americans feel safe in a deeply unsafe world -- the thin edge of the wedge that would dislodge ''the old paradigm.''

"When I pointed out to Dean that he was depending heavily on continued failure in Iraq, he said, ''I'm not betting on it, and I'm hoping against it, but there's no indication that I should be expecting anything else.'' What neither of us knew at the time was that Saddam Hussein was already in custody, having been seized about eight hours earlier. The following day, when Hussein's capture was announced, there were endless TV images of Iraqis dancing with relief and joy, and even the most intractable foreign capitals issued gracious congratulations. There was no way of knowing whether Hussein's apprehension might prove as transitory a success as the toppling of his statue, but suddenly the antiwar position seemed like a less marketable commodity than it had the day before. And the fear of some senior Democrats -- and a considerable number of freshly polled voters -- that the party hadn't disposed of the old antiwar bogy, but rather raised it once again, appeared all too well founded."

- much more . . .

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/04/magazine/04DEMOCRATS.html
(registration requuired)


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onebigbadwulf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-04 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. EVERY dem candidate can win on national security
once they go head to head against Bush in a debate and expose all the wrongs he has done....

underfunding homeland

cutting the FBI anti-terrorism budget

stirring the bee's nest in Iraq

etc etc etc




The only reason Bush is assumed to be strong in national security is because a majority of Americans are ignorant of the facts.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-04 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. It really annoys me when a journalist comes up with a "literary"
Edited on Sun Jan-04-04 12:28 PM by janx
headline.

This particular headline is an attempt to mirror the title of a famous short story (as well as a collection of short stories) by Tim O'Brien, "The Things They Carried." O'Brien is--predictably--a veteran of the Vietnam War.

Between this and the Kerry quote about roads diverging in New Hampshire (a Frostian literary theme--ironically pertinent to VERMONT, not New Hampshire), I've just about had it with these desperate attempts.

Sorry to rant, but I can't stay quiet on this one.
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-04 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. I can't imagine Tim O'Brien being too happy about this.
Good book, bad headline.
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-04 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. Clark, Kerry and Gephardt can easily win
on this topic alone. By coincidence all 3 of my favorite candidates.:toast:
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Joe L. is also qualified, but he's not my candidate.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-04 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. NY Times is crap -- we need to redefine the debate!
We need to redefine the debate on national security. We are not safer by invading other countries that had nothing to do with 9/11. We are not safer by sending troops to protect dictators from the wrath of their own people. We are not safer when we murder thousands of innocents because they got in the way of global capitalism.
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rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-04 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yes, ANY can
Other than the bushsucks* propoganda machine, nobody thinks he has done an acceptable job with national security.
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jbfam4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-04-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Americans are asleep on this issue
They need to wake up and face the facts. All they hear are right wingers talking about what a great job Bush* is doing to protect us.

Kate O"Beirn (?) on Cap Gang........" They must be doing something right since we haven't had another attack."

Others on programs saying the same thing.........they have their talking points down and people believe them.
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NV1962 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-04 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. Amen! n/t
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-04 03:10 AM
Response to Original message
8. I posted this not because I agree with the premise . . .
Edited on Mon Jan-05-04 03:11 AM by OneBlueSky
but because this article was published in a widely read and generally well respected weekly newspaper supplement . . . whether it's true or not is irrelevent, politically speaking . . . the reality is that the article is out there, and a lot of people are reading it . . . THIS is what we're up against . . . and it will get much, much worse as the election approaches . . .
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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. Good read.
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hellhathnofury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-04 03:18 AM
Response to Original message
10. Yes, the example being Kennedy-Nixon.
You've got to prove that the otherside has failed and that we are less safe because of their administration. I think it can be done in this cycle.

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. Kennedy was a war hero
I think we keep forgetting who these past Democratic Presidents actually were and the times in which they were running.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-04 03:56 AM
Response to Original message
11. "...were endless TV images of Iraqis dancing with relief and joy..."
It's little telling lines/lies such as this. The only celebrating I saw was a small group of Iraqi communists waving red flags--the same footage played over and over and over again. And the statue? It was all a US orchestration, but here is this article basing it's argument on Right-wing spin and Democrats inability or unwillingness to address the truth that there were not cheering mobs, but there may be when the US leaves.
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NV1962 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-04 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Exactly... Like the "celebrated toppling of the Saddam statue" - n/t
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
14. Not a good article
it says Chris Matthews twisted Kerry like a pretzel on Iraq. The truth is Kerry schooled Matthews on foreign affairs.

Very biased against all the Dems.
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ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
16. Clark without a doubt
He puts the chickenhawk Republicans to shame
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
18. Of course a couple can.
And, provided we're not suffering from some bandwagon-induced delusion, we know who they are.
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