Let me be the first to say; “I’m Sorry”

[The Doctor.]

Love her or hate her, there’s at least one thing that Dr. Laura was right about; “It’s not an apology if you use the word “if”.”.

So true.

“I’m sorry ‘if’ I hurt your feelings.”, indicates self-absolution. It says that it was your fault your feelings were hurt, so one might as well say, “I’m sorry you’re so hypersensitive, too bad for you.”. Well I’m here to take a knee and put my unqualified apologies at the feet of all who have been offended. Believe me, for someone as certain of his verisimilitude as I am, apologies don’t come easily.

The water under the bridge here has been blazing with flaming garbage on its’ surface. The bridge has most certainly suffered, and even looked as though it could collapse. Oh, it’s not entirely the fault of real DUers. Certainly plenty of trolls took up residence under the bridge and stoked the fires. This post is obviously not for them.
When people are passionate over a candidate, when they’ve invested so much of their time, money, hope and faith in someone they truly believe is best for the nation, the world, and their own causes, not only is it easier to see every criticism of their candidate as a personal attack, but that passion draws criticism by it’s very nature as it tends to occlude reason. It’s easy to consider that the fault of the supporters, but it’s a far better thing to understand those who appear irrational are saying what they do for a reason. Those reasons, however flawed they may seem, deserve respect.

I’ve maintained that I have no problem with a Clinton candidacy. I like her just fine even though I disagree with her policies and her tactics. I’ve been called a ‘sexist’ for criticizing her, I’ve been told my support for Obama is baseless, and people have made assertions to that effect they refused to back up. I felt insulted and perplexed… and I responded with derision, sarcasm, and class ‘A’ condescension. I’m not the only one either. It’s just been too easy to fall into such behavior, for everyone. It’s also a big part of the great on-line catharsis for our anxieties and hopes. We will always tend to take things out on people online… especially when we feel justified in doing so. While this represents a remarkable evolution in the balance of our social psychology, it also brings us to a place of caustic communal detritus through group introspection. People just need to be jerks once in a while.

And, as some of you know, I can be particularly good at it.

What this also means is that with all the refuse, junk, and anxiety, it’s necessary to do more than simply acknowledge it.

It’s necessary to step back, look at your part in the fray, and say “I’m sorry.”

This may never happen again, so pay close attention;

“To all the true Clinton supporters, to everyone I’ve called ‘delusional’, ‘nuts’, or anything else that you found insulting; I apologize.”
It doesn’t matter whether I was right or wrong, ultimately I took an opportunity to abuse someone for little more than an attitude I didn’t agree with. So for the remainder of the primary season, however long it may be, I will pledge to refrain from being mean to people for whatever reason, and simply be as straightforward and non-insulting as I can… and I can.

If anyone would like to chime in, I’m sure it would be appreciated.


Oh… and on other topics, and after the primaries are over, I promise not to disappoint anyone by remaining all too nice about things. :evilgrin:

For the meanwhile though, I am sorry. If every candidate enjoyed the truly heartfelt and unabashed support that Hillary Rodham Clinton does, we’d certainly have a more perfect union.

Thank you,

~ Dr. E

[gateley]

1. Yeah -- what Dr. E said!

So eloquently stated, and you DO speak for me and no doubt others. Thank you!!

[The Doctor.]

2. Thanks.

Seems like no one really wants to hear it though. I guess derision is just more fun. :evilgrin:

[gateley]

9. As you said,

it's become an almost automatic response. I find myself reading posts through the lens of "how can I best attack this?" -- isn't that sad?

[Rageneau]

3. So is Hillary a lying, cheating, hate-filled, traitor to democracy or not?

As a Hillary supporter, I never took offense when one of your side called my candidate 'delusional" or some of us supporters "nuts." What I objected to was Democrats who stooped so low as to call her a racist -- and ti imply that her supporters condined that racism. IOW, I objected to the Obama campaign injecting Race into this campaign and using it to divide our party in order top knock off HRC.

Personally, I will accept no apologies from Hillary-Haters until they own up to what they really did -- which was slimey, hateful character-assassination.

No, I won't soon forgive the people who called two of the best American public sewrvants of all time such horrible names.

And I won't soon forget, either. Probably not by November, anyway.

[The Doctor.]

5. Why do you want to start a fight here?

The claim that Obama's campaign has 'injected race' into the campaign is one of the things I've called people 'delusional' over.

Sorry about that.

If you want to argue, perhaps you could take it to another thread. Trying to start a fight here is not appropriate.

[democrattotheend]

16. Did Obama ever call them racist?

If not, why do you punish him for anonymous people in the blogosphere whom he has no control over?

[truedelphi]

33. As a voting rights activist I could not support Senator Clinton because it was obvious

That she knew all about the issues of the electronic voting machinery and choose not to speak out.

And that she was part and parcel of the reason that Kerry was not encouraged to fight for Ohio.

When people who don't want to understand how crucially fundamental that saspect of her character happens to be, that she would let our country deal with another four years of George Bush rather than the psosibility of Kerry getting into office in 2004 and deprive her of the chance to run in 2008, I can only feel that such supporters really haven't thought about the issue of the voting machinery carefully, or are naive about Hillary, or BOTH.

I can't defend the name calling of supporters here at DU. But I certainly understand how frustrating it has been to see people blindly follow Senator Clinton.

[Texas Hill Country]

59. Seriously? ummm, wow... someone is blindly following, but it isnt the Clinton peeps...

[mkultra]

55. ok, im sorry IF HRC played the race card

and your to blinded by your identity to see it. They both baited and it blew up in their face. They suck.

[thoughtcrime1984]

4. I'll sign on for that, too.

Let's be not just be Obama or Hillary supporters, but DEMOCRATS.

[K Gardner]

6. I gave it a shot.. posted a nice remark (several of them actually) about Hillary today

and got attacked viciously by 3 of her lovely supporters. No can do.

[dorktv]

7. Remember, what I said about being nice.

If you are nice at all times, you get niceness in response or at least able to use the ignore function!

[The Doctor.]

8. Then we get to see some

true character come out.

I still plan on pointing out reality, and requesting back-up for some of the more ridiculous assertions, but until the primary is over, it's just pointless to bother insulting anyone... no matter how out of touch they seem.

I've noticed that they don't really seem to want people to be nice about things.

Oh well.

[MattBaggins]

10. I'm sorry if

there is anyone out there I have not yet offended.

[last1standing]

11. I'm on the same wagon.

If someone absolutely feels the need to insult me then I'll just stop the conversation. I feel dirty to have been dragged into the gutter of personal attacks. :(

[Youphemism]

12. Not to distract from the point, but...

As usual, "Dr." Laura overgeneralizes and misses the mark.

When you say, "I apologize for hurting your feelings" rather than "I apologize if I hurt your feelings," you might be being more condescending rather than less.

By removing the conditional, you are assuming you have an intrinsic knowledge of the other person's feelings and that you have the power to hurt them. That's a bit haughty, isn't it?

In the case you quoted, the "if" is only conditionalizing the apology on its necessity. It would be different to say, "I apologize if you also realize you screwed up, too." That's a qualifying conditional.

I apologize if I illuminated the fact that "Dr." Laura sounds like a dried-up windbag.

Excuse me -- I mean, "I apologize for the fact that 'Dr.' Laura sounds like a dried-up windbag."

[The Doctor.]

13. Not at all.

"If" makes it conditional.

Just because you might not like Dr. Laura (who I also believe is a freak), doesn't mean she's always wrong.

[Youphemism]

31. True, I dislike her...

But I explained why I disagree with that statement, and my reasoning had nothing to do with disliking her.

You can disagree with the logic, but please don't try to tell me why I think she's wrong -- especially when I took the time to explain it to you.

In fact, your implication that I think she's wrong because I don't like her suggests you think you know my thought process... and that was part of the point of my complaint about that statement of hers you quoted.

[The Doctor.]

52. What logic?

You came here to pick a fight, not to make a point.

You don't have to be a mind reader to apologize for using offensive language or calling people names. They can choose to accept it based on whether or not they were offended as they wish.

You're trying to make a point out of literally nothing.

Enjoy your stay.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[democrattotheend]

15. And if the tables were turned?

I guess you would recognize that you had been nasty beyond redemption and come to the conclusion that Hillary did not deserve our votes as a result?

[Mags]

20. ya know, I am for Clinton, I will stand with her as long as she is still

standing. I don't expect or would I think that after the things that have been posted here by BO folk about her, that anyone would come forward and vote for her, they may say now that they would vote for the Dem candidate, but that is totally bullshit. As far as being nasty beyond redemption, you my dear have no authority to redeem anyone. I know BO folk think they have powers, but you are going way to far with your powers.

[Mags]

34. delete

[Tatiana]

17. Obviously this post wasn't intended for you, then. You can move along.

It's amazing how entrenched *some people* have become over things like SINCERE APOLOGIES.

This was a very thoughtful and respectful post and though you've attempted to piss on it, I know you aren't representative of the majority of Clinton supporters.

[Mags]

25. think what you want, Hillary supporters are more hardened then you think You can't

just piss on her then expect us to pick BO and bless him. Sorry, noway.

[roguevalley]

39. I don't care what you think. you give yourself and clinton too much credit.

[The Doctor.]

63. Got examples of people 'pissing on her'?

[The Doctor.]

21. She was called a 'liar' for 'lying'. Your outrage is manufactured.

Only a few people have trashed her without justification, yet you are so very willing to believe that all Obama supporters behave that way. For that, I have told people that they were 'irrational', I may have been right, but it doesn't help.

So I'm sorry. You will behave how you behave regardless of whether I'm nice to you or not. I hope you come around.

[Mags]

22. I have never had a BO supporter nice to me or any other Hillary supporter

here. If you think that will change my vote, you must think we are a bunch of crazies. Sorry , Hillary is the one.

[The Doctor.]

24. Consider that changed as of now.

As I said, I like Hillary just fine, and I respect her supporters.

I'm perfectly willing to be nice, and I'm doing just that now, but you don't want me to be.

Why is that?

[Mags]

27. I really don't care what you are acting like now . Sorry, Hillary deserved

more then the trash that has been splashed at her here on DU. At one time I thought that the Dem Can. was the purpose of all of us. Guess I was wrong. It has been BO or No one else. I am just tired of being so divided as a party. It didn't start here and it won't end here it is Nation wide. It is sad to me that my party of 40 yrs will never come together to end the Bush crap.

[DS1]

29. No, you can never let go off your raging ego and help bring the party together

You're the malignant cancer of this party.

I'd happily support Hillary if she were the nominee, despite being called a cultist and other unsavory things by you.

[Mags]

30. so.

[The Doctor.]

32. Yet she's been given more, even by me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5776568&mesg_id=5776568

I'm not the only one, there have been many people that have said they were fine with Clinton but support Obama. Why is it that you can't acknowledge that?

You don't want to apparently.

The Democratic Candidate is the 'purpose', and will wreck McCain in November. Are you saying that you will not vote for the Dem candidate if it is Obama?

If that is the case, then the problem with unity is you and those like you.

I would have had no problem pulling the lever for Hillary, I always thought it'd be neat to refer to Bill Clinton as 'The First Gentlemen'... that would be cool.

Would you have a problem pulling the lever for Obama because some people have been rude? If so, then your attitude is exactly what will prevent Democrats from winning this fall.

I know you're not that bad. If you support Clinton, you can't be an idiot.

[Mags]

36. Your right, I and my family are not idiots. We will not pull the lever for BO.

We are not bad just because we do not think he is the best for our Country. We can and will write her in. I hope and pray for our Country if McCain or BO becomes the President, but I for one will not take the responsibility of having his Presidency on my conscience.

[roguevalley]

41. fine. but don't expect respect for that. it isn't about obama. its about your

ego. your poor hurt feelings.

[The Doctor.]

58. And over nothing.

When you ask these people to produce real justification for their vindictive attitude, they simply can't produce it.

I'm beginning to think I made a mistake in saying I'd be nicer to them. But I'll stick to it.

[The Doctor.]

54. This will be a nicer place

when pointlessly vindictive people like yourself are gone.

[roguevalley]

40. this is all about you. this is about putting a person ahead of the

country. you are an idolator and you are sad. he won fair and square. check out the oregon rallies. he won fair and square. you are an idolator and a sore loser and you are making yourself look bad. but hey, go ahead. there are other websites with other idolators for you to pal around with.

[DS1]

28. You can't even complain about talking thrash{sic} without talking trash

Oh Precious One! Cult cult cult!

Piss off, you're not wanted.

[Mags]

35. Oh, come on, he is the Precious One to his supporters, that is all they can see

no substance , no point, not nothing , just him. The empty suit.Got for it , see just what you get to get this nation out of the worst period in my lifetime. We don't need anyting but Hope and change. Good Luck.

[roguevalley]

42. I would compare his resume against yours any day. tell me, when

was the last time you were elected to the US senate and when did you last get your party's nomination for president and when did you edit the harvard law review and when did you ever do anything selfless for someone else? Waiting.

[Arugula Latte]

46. Hillary might have experience, but she lacks judgment.

The IWR vote and her campaign are two prime examples.

[Youphemism]

47. Try Reading His Policies

I have yet to hear from anyone who makes the Empty Suit argument about Obama who has actually read the policies posted on his web site. They are very well-written and robust.

It sounds to me as if you are being as narrow-visioned as the people you are accusing.

I don't understand why so many people are looking at this election as if it were a playoff game.

"If my team doesn't win, I don't want the team that beat us to win the championship."

This is not a football game. This is an election, and the guy beating your candidate agrees with 90+% of her policies. The guy on the other side of the aisle will continue to destroy the progress Bill Clinton made while he was in office.

Haven't the Republicans spent enough time undoing the Clinton legacy as it is? Are you going to let them keep tearing down those accomplishments just because you don't like the way this campaign has gone?

[kentuck]

18. Reminds me of today's Dilbert

[SwampG8r]

19. ill take the pledge

To all the true Clinton supporters, to everyone I’ve called ‘delusional’, ‘nuts’, or anything else that you found insulting; I apologize.”
It doesn’t matter whether I was right or wrong, ultimately I took an opportunity to abuse someone for little more than an attitude I didn’t agree with. So for the remainder of the primary season, however long it may be, I will pledge to refrain from being mean to people for whatever reason, and simply be as straightforward and non-insulting as I can… and I can.

[The Doctor.]

23. Thank you.

It may not be easy, but it's proof that there are plenty of decent Obama supporters.

[SwampG8r]

26. its not that hard really

when all the facts support you

[usrbs]

38. I don't think you understand

I said this in response to another apology. This isn't aimed specifically at you, it's aimed at all the various supporters who all during the primary have been hateful and extremely demeaning towards the other candidate and supporters, and now that it's ending, want all of a sudden to make nice. I see at least 2 such posters in your thread.

"I'm sorry" is not a magic wand that makes all of your previous words and behavior disappear. You should have thought of "We're all Democrats and have to be united" beforehand, while you were creating this rift. Why should we believe in your sincerity now?

To be clear - I'm talking about bad insults and very jerk-like behavior, not justified , reasoned criticism, even harsh criticism. And if any HRC supporters fill that bill , then they're included, but frankly, having come to Hillary fairly late, I haven't seen much of that from the HRC side.

And yes, I'm voting for the Democratic nominee, but my money and efforts will go to downstream elections if Obama is the candidate, because I feel alienated from my party and from many of those who up until now, I considered my community.

[SwampG8r]

49. well thats terrible i hope you feel better soon

[The Doctor.]

53. You make so many claims, yet you have trouble backing them up...

why is that?

Just because I decided to stop calling people 'delusional' doesn't make you right. It means there's just no reason to point it out anymore.

So go get some examples, with links, of people being jerks without a reason.

[Mags]

37. sorry, too late. Thanks anyway.

[roguevalley]

43. who cares.

[PBS Poll-435]

44. Umm...no thanks.

Even your apology is a thinly veiled insult.

So, no Thanks.

(Way to miss the point of the OP.)

[avenger64]

45. talking points in the house ...

... we've got an operative here. See the thread about Obama saying 'be nice to hillary supporters'.

[The Doctor.]

51. Oh, there's certainly more than one. Just look at this thread.

Meawhile, where is this thread you speak of.

[Two Americas]

48. the divide is real

I am now convinced that there is a serious divide in the party that goes beyond loyalty to candidates, and that divide is becoming more and more apparent. People cannot and should not apologize for finding themselves on one side or the other of that divide, nor should their positions be trivialized or dismissed.

The coalition that has been the source of the party's power is unraveling, and unlikely to ever be put back together. Attempts at forcing people back together will have the opposite effect, and that is what we are starting to see.

I think that the best thing is to respect people on the other side, recognize and acknowledge that there is a split in the party, and then whether we part ways or rebuild the coalition it will go more smoothly and quickly.

[hokies4ever]

50. But do you reject and denounce yourself?

That seems to be the going rate for an apology these days. :rofl:

[lumberjack_jeff]

56. All too often, mea culpas use the other disclaimer: "but"

As in, "I'm sorry that I called you a wrinkly, shrill, murderous harpy, but it's on account'a you're a wrinkly shrill murderous harpy."

I appreciate your initiative in trying to improve the tone. The repairs to the bridge won't happen overnight.

[The Doctor.]

57. There was no 'but'.

I've dealt with many Clinton supporters claiming outrage over literally nothing. I've asked many dozens of times for people to back up their claims to be given nothing. In this very thread, people are claiming they will 'never vote for Obama' in the GE.

I'm afraid that's just plain vindictive, and when I ask what was said or done to make them feel that way, they literally have nothing to justify themselves.


Can you explain this?


You see, the ones burning the bridge, if you read this thread, also happen to be the ones refusing to repair it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

60. Reasonable people can disagree on the cause of the damage.

I see no compelling reason to undermine or sabotage the conscientious effort you made with your OP.

My only point is that I often see the other kind of quasi-apology, which is analagous to backing the car up a couple of feet to get another running start.

[VotesForWomen]

61. hmmm.

[The Doctor.]

62. You don't accept.

Why?