it just pisses me when Clinton says she won the popular vote when

[Maraya1969]

Obama was not even on the ballot in one of those states. It is just plain lying. And I don't understand why no one has called her on it.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. you misheard her.

she won A popular vote. It just rhymes with the.

[LakeSamish706]

2. It's not only that it's also not counting Caucasus either that they want to do...

Any way possible will do so long as Hillary can steal this nomination.

[Seeker30]

3. He took his name off. Stop whining

[MercutioATC]

9. ...as did every other major candidate except Clinton....

...and she STILL had over 40% of the voters vote against her...

[Dumak]

14. I think we all know

... that you can't count Michigan in any estimate of the popular vote. I know you're feeling bad about Hillary's situation, just like I didn't feel so good about Edwards having to drop out, but it's time to dry your tears and move on.

[CreekDog]

62. okay, since you count Michigan, every other state is counted

correct? i'm trying to find out how many votes she counted from Iowa, Nevada and Washington. Can you help?

[Gore1FL]

69. And maine

add those in, and even the Clinton Canard of Pop Vote puts her behind in the neighborhood of 80,000.

[CTLawGuy]

68. FL and MI

broke the rules, yet that doesn't matter to hillbots. you stop whining.

[Warren DeMontague]

78. "the rules are the rules"- Terry McAuliffe, 2003

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/25/165935/668

"Carl, take it to the bank," I said. "They will not get a credential. The closest they'll get to Boston will be watching it on television. I will not let you break this entire nominating process for one state."


Better get movin, pal, I think you've got a goalpoast to catch.

[mkultra]

80. he was required to, and so was she.

[featherman]

4. She hasn't "won" any such thing - there... I called her on it

[LSparkle]

5. Not to mention that she's totally EXCLUDING the caucus voters ...

It's like she thinks the caucus state participants DON'T EVEN
EXIST in her alternate universe. She's abandoned the reality-
based community, imho ...

[sniffa]

It's also a lie even including those states

Desperate times call for...

[PBS Poll-435]

6. So he took his name off of the ballot because he couldn't win.

And now people think he is entitled to ALL of the undecideds and then some?

Nah.

He can have 1/3 of the undecided vote.

[hfojvt]

19. that does not include current polling

according to Rasmussen, their latest Michigan poll on March 6 had Clinton with 41% and Obama with 41%. A may 7th poll shows McCain with 44% against Clinton with 44% while McCain polls at 45% versus Obama with 44%.

So it does not appear that a delegate split of 2-1 or worse for Hillary reflects the will of the voters of Michigan.

[PBS Poll-435]

61. People tend to jump on the bandwagon.

That is the ONLY explanation for a "change of heart."

[babylonsister]

25. Gotta link to that assertion or are you just blowing smoke? nt

[slinkerwink]

31. that is a LIE.

[MonkeyFunk]

40. It's not a lie

just not the whole truth.

It wasn't just that he'd lose: there was pandering, too.

[CreekDog]

64. how many votes did she count from Iowa?

[Auntie Bush]

50. That's his MO

"he took his name off of the ballot because he couldn't win."

Just like he knew he'd lose WV and KY...he didn't campaign...then he'd have a good excuse for losing. It also wasn't very good political judgment to take his name off the ballot in MI. In fact she was predicted to win and all the others were scared off too...except Kouch...none of them wanted to lose...easy decision.

[housewolf]

53. That's nonsense

the reason ALL the other candidates took their names off the ballot was because MI was being sanctioned.

The only reason they were all still on the FL ballot was because they tried to get them off and it was too late.

[PBS Poll-435]

60. I totally agree.

At that stage of the game he couldn't just lose, though, he had to not even play the game.

[housewolf]

52. He didn't take his name off because he couldn't win

Obama, Biden, Richardson, Kucinich and the rest took their names off because Michigan was being sanctioned,

The ONLY reason the names were ON the ballot in FL is because it was too late to take them off.

[msallied]

57. My god... does it HURT you to lie so much?

[PBS Poll-435]

67. Lie?

Not I.

[ErinBerin84]

7. I just read that

(even though Clinton has already been saying that she has "more votes". Hmmmkay...) Clinton is going to counter the fact that Obama will get the majority of pledged delegates tomorrow (which the Clinton campaign has been complaining about non-stop) by making a huge show about how she has "won the popular vote" tomorrow night in her Kentucky victory (go to hillaryclinton.com!) speech. So, we'll have two victors tomorrow night! I don't think even the media that wants to see this go to the convention is going to play enabler to this bs anymore.

[LSparkle]

8. Yup ... HRC won't be happy, but her speech is going to have to go first ...

because his victory will be determined in Oregon, and their results
will come in later. But watch her try and step on his speech anyway ...

[housewolf]

39. 75% or more of Oregon has already voted

and they'll be counting votes all day while the remainder come in. If they can call it early, I wonder if they will, or if they have to wait until the deadline at 8pm pacific time, which is pretty late east coast time.

[NotThisTime]

10. plus not counting the 4 caucus states that don't have popular totals - it is DISGUSTING that she

does this....

[CreekDog]

66. are you telling me that they count Michigan but exclude Iowa and other states

and she considers this fair?

[sfam]

11. Obama should hold an unsanctioned online vote that doesn't count and...

then proclaim he has 50 million more votes than Hillary. Who cares if they weren't DNC sanctioned contests? All the votes should count, dammit!!! In fact, I'm offended that folks outside the US can't vote. Obama should let the entire world vote in this online election - as many times as they want in fact. ALL the votes must be counted!!!

And best yet, this will be just as valid as the Michigan vote!!!

[MonkeyFunk]

12. How is it a lie?

He chose to remove his name, therefore got no votes. It's a fact you don't like, but it's not a lie.

[jenmito]

16. She doesn't count any caucus states, either. And as you know, she SAID the MI vote won't count...

and 40% of people voted "uncommitted." Just the other day a MI Obama supporter said he voted "uncommitted" for OBAMA.

[MonkeyFunk]

17. You're changing the subject

How many votes did Obama get in Michigan? Clinton says zero. I think she's correct. :shrug:

[Bensthename]

20. okay then she is purposely being a _ _ _ _ _

very misleading and she knows it..

Might as well call it a lie because thats what it is.

[jenmito]

21. WE DON'T KNOW since he wasn't on the ballot. So the "voice of the voters" wasn't heard...

not to mention the caucus states that she doesn't count. Both of their names were on the ballot in THOSE states. :shrug:

[MonkeyFunk]

24. Well then Obama shouldn't have removed his name, should he?

But the fact remains, he did. And therefore, got no votes in michigan.

[jenmito]

27. Yes he should've. He wasn't being sneaky like SHE was. And again-SHE DOESN'T COUNT ANY CAUCUS

STATES!

[Bensthename]

28. Then how does she have the right to not count caucuses?

A vote is a vote to her.. But only when she says so..
She is a joke.

[jenmito]

33. crickets-He STILL hasn't addressed that point.

But he's a Hillary supporter. :shrug:

[MonkeyFunk]

37. because it's off-topic

this is about whether she's lying by not giving Obama votes from Michigan. You guys keep trying to change the subject. Start a thread on it if you want.

[Bensthename]

38. Yep, you know she is a liar.

She counts MI when it will not count and disregard caucus states votes for no good fucking reason at all. She is disgrace pure and simple. She should be kicked out of the country.

[jenmito]

48. See ya! Wouldn't wanna BE ya!

:hi:

[CreekDog]

75. i stuck with the subject and said Obama got zero votes in Michigan

and cannot get an answer from you or anyone else about how many votes she is counting from Iowa, Nevada, Washington state and Maine.

if she insists on counting Michigan is she counting all the votes everywhere?

[sniffa]

30. Man, Ignored gets way too much attention

It's time to move on people.

[jenmito]

32. You're right.

:hi:

[sniffa]

34. Seriously, it's time for them to get "left behind"

:D

:hi:

[jenmito]

35. Yeah, you're right. It's time to get the Monkey off my back.

:D :hi:

[roseBudd]

44. so Michigan voted for Stalin, Kim Jong, Castro, which is it?

[housewolf]

45. Maybe, but 40& of the state voted for

"not clinton" so who should get the delegates that represent those votes?

[neverforget]

56. Nobody because Hillary said so. She needs to change the rules so she

can win. :puke:

[CreekDog]

74. yes Obama did get zero votes in Michigan

how many votes is Hillary counting from Iowa?

[Bensthename]

18. It is purposely missleading the noninformed..

There are dumb asses that believe they both had their name on the ballot..

She does it for money pure and simple.

[jenmito]

26. She's lying. She doesn't count ANY of the caucus states.

[Samantha]

54. And that's it exactly

There are many people, especially older people, who don't have computers and access Internet websites. All they know is what they hear on television, radio and from their neighbors. Many of them will be permanently left with the impression she won the popular vote but still lost the nomination. It's her way to trying to stain Obama with the "illegitimate" stain, much like the one Bush* carries.

And she will continue in other ways to undermine Obama. This is just the beginning.

[Maraya1969]

77. That's true. Most people proably don't even know that Obama and

everyone else except Hillary weren't on the ballot so if she says she won they just believe her. I's playing on people's ignorance of the process and that's not fair.

[housewolf]

43. It's a distortion because the only scenario under which she has more

popular votes is by NOT COUNTING the 4 caucus states while COUNTING FL & MI. Of all the scenarios, that is the only one whereby she has more popular votes (less than 30,000).

So she's running around the country complaining to all these late states that "they" don't want "your" vote to count, but I have the most popular votes... and she's not counting the votes in 4 states.

[scheming daemons]

63. Because the Mich. primary has been ruled unconstitutional.... legally, it never happened....

...and therefore, neither did any of the votes in that state.

[jenmito]

13. And she doesn't include any caucus states, either.

Yet most in the MSM just go along with her math.

[Obamaniac]

22. Hillary Clinton is delusional at this point...

She has no sense of history. This won't pass the laugh test two months from now and she's still going to lose.

This is only a way to appeasing her bruised ego. She can't accept that she lost, so she has to invent a fiction that she really won. No one but her, and her supporters, buys it.

[jenmito]

29. I know and I think the SDs know, too, which is why they're NOT flocking to her...

even after her 41 point win! :rofl:

[DesEtoiles]

70. thank God, the SDs are not fools

[Bensthename]

15. I hear ya it is pure bullshit.. Supers are not stupid, thus the reason they are "clinging" to Obama

She just uses that to spur up some money from her groupies.

[Perry Logan]

23. I think you were pissed before Hillary said a word.

Like all Clintophobes, you were pre-pissed. You'd be mad at her no matter what she said--or failed to say.

[roseBudd]

49. No I didn't start hating her until mid march, prior to I thought her unfavorables too high

still do, only they are higher

[Perry Logan]

58. Obama's have virtually caught up with hers--on a few months. And don't forget his charming wife.

Does this mean you'll be hating the Obamas, too?

[roseBudd]

59. Obama has not sunk to gutter politics, my disdain for HRC is due to her actions

When Obama brings up Snipergate or uses it in an attack ad then I will concede he is playing gutter politics

Too bad for HRC her kitchen sink strategy tarnished her also.

[2rth2pwr]

36. There are no votes in a caucus, that's why it's called (surprise) a "caucus".

I have never heard the phrase "it just pisses me" before, what part of the country do you live in?

[housewolf]

51. So what you're saying is that it's ok with you that she's trying to say that the rules don't matter

The primary election is about delegate selection, it's not a popularity contest. America is not a direct democracy, regarless of how many Americans think that it is. It's not; it is a representation democracy.

Caucuses are about allocatng delegates for a candidate; primary elections are about allocating delegates for candidates. They are a different process but the goal is the same: to allocate a state's number of delegates to the candidates.

Hillary's stand now that it should be about the popular vote is saying that the rules should be changed now from the way the entire primary season was set up (and has been for decades) and we should look at something different but oh, by the way, those states that used a caucus system don't count.

It's about as bogus a claim as anyone could make.

[Lerrad]

41. Heres how she claims it....

She actually has him by 139,427, if you count it with Florida and Michigan, but exclude caucuses. Any other way you look at it Obama has her beat.

This is why I dislike Hillary sooo.... much, she likes to stretch and twist the truth.

TOTAL OBAMA HILLARY
TOTAL 12,891,604 12,217,745 (w/o FL & MI - w/caucuses and territories)
TOTAL 13,460,645 13,403,104 (w/ FL&MI, w/caucuses)

TOTAL 12,891,604 11,889,594 (w/o MI - w/caucuses and territories)
TOTAL 12,535,451 11,730,409 (w/o MI - excludes caucuses)

TOTAL 12,535,451 12,058,560 (w/o FL & MI - excludes caucuses)
TOTAL 13,104,492 >13,243,919< (w/ FL & MI - excludes caucuses)

Florida 569,041 857,208
Michigan XXX,XXX 328,151

[roseBudd]

46. "she likes to stretch and twist the truth" kind of like landing under sniper fire and running

[roseBudd]

42. there is no popular vote, only pledged and super delegates

[Life Long Dem]

47. Even it she drops this and adds this and that,

the popular vote alone is only a bargaining chip to go to the SD's and grab Obama's delegates away from his firm grasp and have the SD's overturn enough delegates to then add up enough for Clinton to have the lead.

When SD's are going for Obama today, how she will get this overturn, and not only grabbing them from Obama but also from the will of the people - which is why they are pretty much there to begin with... will be a feat that could be given a 'I dare you to even try it' type of unrealistic feat that is another impossibility. Unless they want to see crowds like Oregon's 80,000 storming the convention doors, thus given Rush L. his wet dream.

[FlaGranny]

55. Hillary insists on

leading her supporters on with misinformation. Every time I let myself feel a bit bad for her, she pulls more crap. I'm happy I changed my mind about her back in January. I'd be pulling my hair out right now if I had voted for her. I once thought Obama didn't have enough experience. Now I think Clinton doesn't have enough character. She reinforces the way I feel about her daily.

[AZBlue]

65. It's also lying when there are states with caucuses and no popular vote tally.

[PBS Poll-435]

72. Well...thankfully Arizona has a primary!

(And she won that too!)

[DesEtoiles]

71. Saddam Hussein had "elections" with only one name on the ballot-were those valid?

[DesEtoiles]

73. it does not matter WHY his name was not on the ballot- IT WASN'T ON. ELECTION INVALID. period.

[bigtree]

76. because you say so? We'll see how the party insiders rule on that

. . .and let's hope they decide in favor of the folks who bothered to vote.

Fact is, Sen. Obama thought he was saving himself the embarrassment of badly trailing Clinton there so he willingly took his name off to have this muddle of interpretation of the votes cast. The others calculated that way as well.

IT WAS A PURELY POLITICAL CALCULATION TO TAKE THEIR NAMES OFF OF THE BALLOT. They saw an opportunity to appear neutral in a state where Hillary Clinton was heavily favored. The outcome is their own fault, and her legitimate advantage, in my opinion.

[jenmito]

79. "Well, you know, It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything."

Hillary's words. And she's not counting ANY votes in ANY caucus state.

[RL3AO]

81. So the woman who says that all 50 states need their voices heard and not 48...

ignores the twelve caucus states?