Contrast: How stubbornly the Clinton forces fight certain defeat and How they caved in 2000

[jsmirman]

it is simply amazing watching thuggish Howard Wolfson, with his busted grill spreading his dark puss all over the airwaves tonight. Where the fuck was that tenacity in 2000? For a winnable fight?

What does that tell you?

I know what it tells me. The Clintons are for the Clintons and nothing and no one else.

[lisa58]

1. I'm with you on this one.

[Botany]

2. Good point

BTW if Gore was President and Bill was running as veep in 2000
do you think H.W. would have wasted one second sending in
Bakker and the Enron boys on Bill?

[MarjorieG]

3. Don't forget 2004. Clintons protected Bush on Iraq; weak Kerry support

And don't forget letting infrastructure and election apparatus stay broken, waiting for this oppotunity

[KoKo]

4. Howard Wolfson is such a "pussy cat" your description made me laugh.

Trying to turn that guy into a demon. :rofl:

[BeatleBoot]

5. Gore - Liebermann Campaign Distanced themselves from Clinton in 2000

Didn't want his help.

Widely publicized fight about this between Bill and Al.

In my opinion, a huge flaw in the Gore-Liebermann Campaign.

[jsmirman]

7. I actually meant 2004

I'm on medication as I just threw out my back.

My first post to hit the greatest list and I can't fucking thinking straight. Figures.

[BeatleBoot]

8. Your post makes more sense in that light. Take care of yourself.

Best wishes to you.

I hope your back pain gets better!

:hi:

[jsmirman]

11. It's fucking killing me

the meds make me stupid and my back still kills. F'ing great.

:freak:

Thanks for the kind thoughts.

[merh]

18. Gore won in 2000

The GOP wouldn't have needed SCOTUS had clinton campaigned with him and for him. The public was tired of the clintons at that point, they wanted to put that all behind them. If clinton cared about the party and the nation he would have put his selfish needs aside and wouldn't have had the affair he had "because he could".

[Hola]

24. Probably helped

Actually it probably helped Gore, there was real Clinton fatigue in the country.

Though Gore made the mistake of going after the 'value voters' that turned out for Bush anyway. IMO instead of running to the center he should have gone left. Would have helped more.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

6. 2002.

War.

"Enough with the speeches and the aye votes!"

[Rageneau]

9. It was GORE, not Clinton, who wimped out in 2000. Had it been HRC, not Al, she'd have been president

Don't confuse all the whiny wimps of the Democratic Party (Gore, Kerry et al.) with the only two FIGHTERS the Democrats have produced in the last half century.

And they not only have to fight the right wing and the national media, but also a large part (the hate-filled people) of their own Democratic base.

[blm]

12. BULLSHIT - Clintons were working against both Gore and Kerry and sabotaging Dem voters

as well. They ran that DNC for themselves, not for Gore in 2000, not for Dem candidates in 2002 and not for Kerry r Dem voters in 2004.

Clintons were PROTECTING Bush - that's what Clintons do - protect BushInc.

The fucking WIMP of the Dem party are the cowards who feared the Bushes so much they protected them and their cronies - BRAVE Dems uncovered and exposed the Bushes and their illegal operations. Cowards like the Clintons got into office and covered up for BushInc.

It's EASY to look brave when you're running a dog and pony show. It takes REAL GUTS to take on the Bushes and expose their illegal operations. Cowards go along with the Bushes for their own power and then use it to protect BushInc and the fascist agenda.

Were you marveling at Bill's courage when he deep-sixed BCCI matters for Poppy throughout the 90s? Were you marveling at Bill's courage when he used his summer 2004 book tour to repeatedly defend Bush's decisions on terrorism and Iraq war while never mentioning that there wasn't a lawmaker in DC who actually knew more about terrorism and its funding than John Kerry?

Bill wouldn't say that because he knew damn well that if Kerry got into office Bill's legacy would be seen as the COVERUP ADMINISTRATION for Poppy Bush and his cronies.

It takes COWARDICE and DECEIT to stand with the Bushes. They can call it 'fight' all they want. IT'S A LIE.

[ClassWarrior]

17. Of course, if it had been HRC, she'd have been President. That's exactly the point.

It appears to be all about her and her alone. Heaven forbid she help another Dem get the top prize.

NGU.

[Eric Condon]

20. The Clintons are "the only two FIGHTERS the Democrats have produced in the last half century?"

I don't know what kind of Democratic Party you're a member of, then.









These are what fighters look like. These are people who have taken principled stands for progressive issues and have fought for them because they matter. This is distinctly different from being a "fighter" for nothing other than your own craven political ambition.

If only things had been different. If only Zellary had been a "fighter" when it counted, back around the time of the IWR in 2002, and maybe things would be different. But they're not. She and her husband have never taken a stand for anything other than their own interests and the interests of their moneyed pals like Marc Rich.

[PoliticalAmazon]

23. HRC couldn't be bothered to stand up for our votes then. Why bother her with our votes now? n/t

[dcindian]

10. It has always been about her and the queenship of the US

She will even take the backing of republicans to do it. She is the most megalomaniac person to run for president in a long time. Right now I doubt you would do better with her then Bush.

[MonkeyFunk]

13. The fight went to the US Supreme Court

and we lost. I'm not sure what more you expected.

[jsmirman]

15. That's actually not a full description of 2004

but that was not the election I meant, anyway. But allowing the preppy riot to further allow the judges to hand down their bullshit "we make this ruling on the basis that this totally feasible thing (the recount) is not feasible in a reasonable time frame (it was)."

[anonymous171]

14. If only Gore had had Hillary's legal team for the Florida debacle.

[blm]

21. Baloney - Clintons didn't want Gore or Kerry to win and the DNC they set up made sure of it.

.

[Perry Logan]

16. Quick reminder: Clintophobes are full of shit.

[4themind]

19. The justices(from papa bush no less) were in the tank for bush

Once they ruled, there was pretty much nothing more they could do, which wouldn't wnd up before their faces again, and they'd do they same thing again in my view. I really can't think what else gore could have done, either than demand that Bill Clinton just flat out ignore the Court, or arrange for open revolt, and somehow I doubt Bill would stick his neck out for gore to THAT degree after that campaign.
Here the clintons can help shape the system, because they are such a significant part of the machine, in Gore's case the machine was against him (Florida govenor, sec. of state, poppa bush appointed judges, no decisive power as V.P.). It's a lot easier to fight when you have more cards stacked in your favor. But Some times you're just plain fucked, no matter how much you shout about it(like seeing an asteroid coming about 10 ft from your face)

[Carolina]

22. Exactly!

excellent point