She picked up nearly a quarter million votes.

[rug]

[Oregone]

1. so?

[palindrome]

2. So, she picked up a quarter of a million votes.

That's a good thing.

[Condem]

4. And will lose them back & then some in Oregon.

[rug]

9. Very doubtful.

[MonkeyFunk]

13. how?

She won KY by 35 points, and KY is larger than Oregon.

How much will Obama have to win by in Oregon to erase that lead?

[alcibiades_mystery]

32. What lead?

:shrug:

Do you mean the "lead" for tonight?

[MonkeyFunk]

36. Was the the thread that hard to follow?

:shrug:

[Condem]

40. Enjoy the moment, monkey

Things about to change.

[MonkeyFunk]

85. I'm golden

I'm fine with an Obama win. I prefer Clinton, though.

The only downside to an Obama win is seeing his shitheel, hate-filled supporters here be rewarded. That'll suck.

[Condem]

89. We're not all like that, monkey

If you're voting for the winner, I luv ya- simple as that.

[shadowknows69]

96. The idea is that it's the country will be rewarded with a great President

Get over yourself for pity's sake.

[FredScuttle]

106. Read it and weep, tool

VICTORY

[Elidor]

132. Most of his supporters will remain calm

There will always be hotheads aplenty. Are you claiming to be an angel here? You've had your moments, too. There are no victims in GD-P, only perps.

[Oregone]

7. so. Its a meaningless thing.

How many delegates did she pick up? How much more viable is her candidacy now than 1 hour ago?

[rug]

18. 250,000 votes mean something in a democracy. Where do you live?

[Honeycombe8]

20. Obama is still ahead in the popular vote. nt

[MercutioATC]

22. I live in a country where we count delegates, not the popular vote.

Where do you live?

[woolldog]

55. zing!

:rofl:

[NotThisTime]

63. Double Zing!

Now if your of the mindset you don't like the way we do things, you should petition your legislature to change the laws next go round, feel free to do so....

[rug]

80. Gee, I heard something like that at antiwar protests.

It was written on signs along the way.

[rug]

61. Same country. Odd you think so little of voters. Maybe we should start DelegateUnderground.

[anigbrowl]

87. God, quit whining. They all signed the DNc rules before the contest began.

It's been good enough for every other contest in your lifetime, but it's not enough for Queen Hillary? TOO BAD. You should have been fighting to change the rules of the primaries last year, not when they failed to produce the result you wanted.

You are being SO childish, in both your tone and your credulity. Go lie on a floor or something, there's no point in trying to deal with you as an adult.

[rug]

90. You're barking up the wrong tree about whining. Read your sniveling little post again.

[JoFerret]

91. Your words

describe you well.
let it be.
enjoy.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

25. The best she can hope for is that the "popular vote" argument would work with the supers.

Because you cannot change the rules in the middle of the race (actually the end of the race).

[Zhade]

31. It'd be hard to use that argument, since she's STILL behind in that irrelevant metric.

NT!

[Oregone]

33. But the SDs are probably not complete idiots. Thats the crux of her failed argument.

[roseBudd]

84. SDs know how many downticket congressional races depend on AA voters

The problem with Hillary's base is they are not so segregated as to effect races by sitting out, as they are dispersed.

[Oregone]

28. I live in a Representative Democracy. Look it up.

DELEGATES...say it after me.

[rug]

35. OK, slower . . . V - o - t - e - r -s.

Got it, Jim?

[Oregone]

48. So?

Popular vote totals over large non-homogeneous regions that have massive variables affecting TURNOUT do not display the will of the people. A massive windstorm in a state, or ice storm in another, can slash their "popular vote" contribution, and vastly skew the will of the people of that state. Proportional delegate allocation equalizes the idiosynchrocies amongst the state's uncontrollable conditions (as well as controllable differences like open/close, primary/caucus, voting booth access, voting roll purging, deceptive robo-calls and anything else you can imagine that affects turnout).

Delegates is the name of the game.

[aquarius dawning]

44. In Obamaville where Florida and Michigan primaries don't count but Kansas and Nebraska caucuses do

[rug]

51. Let's be fair here and include Wyoming and Alaska.

[stillcool]

72. Aren't you speaking of the "Democratic Party"...

and the "rogue states" of Michigan and Florida? Why don't Michigan and Florida start their own party? No one's names will have to appear on any ballot, and they can make up their own rules as they go along. Then they can stop the recounts, and everyone will be happy.

[aquarius dawning]

104. call it whatever you want. Me, I'm going to call it adamn good reason not to vote for Obama in Nov.

[stillcool]

140. You don't need a reason..

especially one as lame as Michigan and Florida. Those delegates will be seated. What will your excuse be then?

[aquarius dawning]

148. It isn't lame to me.

It's a pretty big fucking deal in fact. To me, It goes beyond Obama and Hillary. All good Democrats should hang their heads in shame over thisand all Americans should take a careful look at what happened here.

[Occam Bandage]

52. In America, where we are in the primary season. That has caucuses and primaries, and thus uses

delegates, not votes. Where do you live?

[anigbrowl]

82. No. by itself it's just a meaningless number.

Put it in the context of the nomination contest and it's around0.9% of the total. That's nice, but not enough to alter the utcome (even if it was based off the popular vote, which it isn't).

[RL3AO]

141. In a country where delegates decide the nominee and a group of 538 decide the Presidency.

[apocalypsehow]

142. Not in this context they don't. And you well know it. Regardless, Obama is now the nominee and this

playing around with facts and numbers and spinning wild scenarios will soon be academic.

[wileedog]

3. With Oregon to come

[Johnny__Motown]

5. Popular vote is not the standard we use to choose a nominee....

[MonkeyFunk]

16. No

but it's a rather compelling argument to make to superdelegates.

[thewiseguy]

19. The superdelegates are choosing Obama

[rug]

26. Interesting argument. So you agree party officials have a greater say than 250,000 Democrats?

[Liberal Gramma]

38. The party set the rules. Delegate count is the standard.

Just like in the GE, electoral votes trump popular vote. That's not the way I'd like it to be, but them's the rules. You can't change the rules to suit your campaign metrics.

[thewiseguy]

39. Ask the 150 party officials who endorsed Hillary before a single was cast

And by the way, Obama still leads her in the popular vote.

[rug]

46. So, do you agree the party officials should have the final say on the nominee?

[casus belli]

Actually, yes..they do. That;s the way it works. n/t

[thewiseguy]

45. Even if you count FL Obama still leads her in the popular vote

So they basically have no argument.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

54. Hillary seemed to think so when it looked like the SD were going in her favor.

[stillcool]

77. how is the popular vote being calculated..

in all the states that had caucuses, and do the delegates matter at all in this primary season? And if the popular vote is going to be the deciding factor, shouldn't the caucus states get to vote again? Actually, maybe we should all vote again.

[rug]

83. The caucus system makes it impossible to determine what the popular vote is.

And comparing delegates from small caucuses to delegates from statewide primaries is comparing apples to oranges. The delegate count in reality represents very little if you're talking about Democrats' preferences.

[scheming daemons]

98. Which is why the popular vote has no bearing on the race at all.... the only count is delegates

[rug]

131. If the only consideration is delegates it will be a pyrrhic victory for the nominee.

[scheming daemons]

146. I don't think you understand the term "pyrrhic victory".....

There is victory... and there is "not victory".


Bush's win in 2000 made us all made.... but there was nothing "pyrrhic" about it. He became President.



Secondly.... Michigan's primary was declared unconstitutional by a federal judge. That means that it never happened, legally.


Obama is ahead in the popular vote in states that had valid elections... and I'm including Florida in the count.


Michigan's election has been declared illegal, and void. It legally did not occur..


Therefore, any count that includes it is a bogus count.

[stillcool]

138. well no...the 'popular vote' count...

how is that calculated, from the caucus states? And I guess Obama got 0 votes in Michigan, in this 'popular vote' category, by which we are now basing what constitutes a win?

[smalll]

103. Yes they are. For now. And Denver is three long months away.

SuperD votes don't get signed, sealed and delivered until the Convention at Denver -- because SuperDs have the INALIENABLE right to change their minds. As you Obamatrons like to say, them's "The Rules." :shrug:

[CakeGrrl]

34. The superdelegates know she's lying out her ass about the popular vote

Unlike some of her supporters, they know why MI and FL didn't count in the first place and they understand THE RULES that Hillary and everyone else agreed to up-front.

All she's doing is becoming a more audacious liar as she pulls the wool over the eyes of some of her more fervent followers.

[thewiseguy]

50. Funny thing is if you count FL she is still behind in the popular vote

[emilyg]

145. It just kills you that we love Hillary.

[Johnny__Motown]

60. Then why are so many SD going to him and not her? And some switching from her to him?

[Zhade]

70. And if that argument is made, Obama STILL wins, because she's behind in the "popular vote" too.

NT!

[aquarius dawning]

21. Please tell us then, what is the standard that "we" will use to choose a nominee?

[Johnny__Motown]

65. D-E-L-E-G-A-T-E-S ... go look it up

[aquarius dawning]

97. and if nobody reaches 2,025 delegates? what then?

[scheming daemons]

99. He'll be at 2025 delegates in less than a week....

[Johnny__Motown]

108. Then we have a split convention, but it won't happen. To many SD want this to end sooner than that

split = Brokered.. wouldn't fit in title

[Honeycombe8]

23. But Obama is still ahead in the popular vote, anyway. nt

[SoonerPride]

Down 4 TDs the losing team gets a gimme TD in the waning minute of the game.

They still lose.

[FredScuttle]

6. $30 million in the red > 250,000 votes

n/t

[rug]

14. 250,000 votes despite debt and against an ATM.

[FredScuttle]

64. She can cry in her beer and whiskey shot and commiserate with Mitt Romney

Mitt, you'll remember, had the following margins of victory:

42% (Wyoming)
37% (Nevada)
31% (Maine)
22% (Alaska)
41% (Colorado)
19% (Minnesota)
85% (Utah)

Ah...Utah....good times, good times.

[rug]

94. Ah yes. Utah.

[Kaylee]

74. Why do Clinton supporters act as if his raising money is a bad thing?

If his fundraising totals bother you so much, give Clinton more money...maybe she'll catch up.

[rug]

88. Ask Fred. He's money-obsessed. I don't think he supports Clinton.

[FredScuttle]

110. No, I support the nominee

n/t

[rug]

119. Welcome aboard Fred.

[FredScuttle]

123. The SS Clintanic?

LOL...no, I'm an Obama man.

[Hippo_Tron]

139. I don't think Obama spent much money in Kentucky

[Occam Bandage]

8. So? We nominate on delegates, not votes. Otherwise, we wouldn't have caucuses.

[AllentownJake]

10. Oregon

had over 70% turnout. She might end up not gaining any tonight.

[Hawkeye-X]

11. I say again, so?

Popular votes are irrelevant in the primaries. Take a lesson on how primaries work.

[rug]

43. "Popular votes are irrelevant in the primaries."

:rofl:

[Hawkeye-X]

105. OK. Show me a path that will give your candidate the nomination..

I await your word...

*cues the crickets to begin chirping*

[rug]

120. Let's discuss it in Ponce. We'll conclude it in Denver.

[Hawkeye-X]

137. Now. Before Denver comes in - I can always contact the TSA..

[Hawkeye-X]

149. She won't feel very welcome in Denver

It's my hometown, and it went overwhelmingly for Obama. This is Obama county, and Hillary will be silenced before she even lands in Denver International Airport. There is a mustang right in the middle of it, and it's for Obama, and giving the dems the POWER.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. Caucus doodle doo!

[rug]

53. Now there's a winning slogan in November.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

79. Better than "Rove-a-Roni!"

:wow:

[rug]

92. I do believe you're the first to utter that phrase.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

127. "Caucus doodle doo!" wasn't a first?

Fuck!

[WA98296]

15. Poor showing in a state with over 1.6 million registered Democrats.

[rug]

57. Yeah 65% to 30% is pathetic. She should just quit.

[WA98296]

67. Doesn't need to, she's been defeated.

[rug]

93. May be, but not in Kentucky.

[MercutioATC]

143. I agree. Clinton earned the right to be the President of Kentucky.

...if they'll stop voting for Republicans in general elections.

[yourguide]

17. doesnt matter...still behind in delegates.

[aquarius dawning]

24. Doesn't matter...still going to the convention.

[yourguide]

29. bring it..she wont have the floor because she wont have the delegates.

[Zhade]

75. She's still behind in the popular vote, too. Even with FL and MI counted.

clintbots fail at math a lot.

[Zhade]

27. ...and still won't be the nominee.

That's because Obama has earned the nomination. She's lost.

[MarjorieG]

30. This is as much about Bill. As 75% said WV, commenting on his campaigning.

Not everyone wants Bill back, walking the halls, with more and more drama.

[Justitia]

37. A pittance. It's not even an EIGHTH the size of my CITY. -eom

[Straight Shooter]

49. Houston. Isn't that often referred to as the armpit of Texas?

:P

[Justitia]

56. Spoken like someone whose candidate got their ass kicked here.

[Straight Shooter]

68. You're wrong. Spoken like someone who once lived there.

Where do you think I first heard the expression?

And, FWIW, Austintatious is a much better place.

[Justitia]

73. When were you last here? Houston is a pretty cool city these days.

Austin is beautiful, I love it. But Houston is where it's happening.

I've lived in the all the major cities of TX, Houston is my favorite place to live.

[Straight Shooter]

86. 15 years ago.

I lived in Arlington, Kennedale, and Houston, visited Dallas a lot, and Austin.

Austin is my favorite, but I have good friends in Houston. Yeah, Houston is all right. That moving parking lot that they call traffic got to be too much, though. :hi:

[Justitia]

114. Houston has become a very different place in the last decade.

Some of the infrastructure change due to winning the Super Bowl venue, trying out for the Olympics, etc.

It's a very vibrant, yet livable city and the Arts are matched nowhere else outside of NYC.

Growing up in San Antonio, and having lived in Dallas for a good chunk of adulthood, I thought I'd hate Houston. Turns out, it is actually my very favorite place to live and I can't imagine going back to the other cities. I adore Austin, but I am more a "big city" girl than Austin can accommodate. It is absolutely gorgeous, however (and a liberal oasis).

Granted, I DO live within the city, so I don't have to fight the monstrous traffic that snarls the outer rings & 'burbs. My driving is all "in town".

Sorry if I jumped a bit out of the gate at your first response, but as you know, we Texans get more than our share of shit around here, LOL - it makes one a bit on the defense!

:hi:

[Straight Shooter]

118. You grew up in San Antonio?

How could I have forgotten San Antone? The River Walk, one of my top 10 fav places in the U.S.

You Texans do get your fair share of sh*t on DU, don't you, but I always stand up for you. That's where I bought my first house, but I just love the mountains so much I finally had to head west to Oregon. Either that, or go back to Tennessee. Ack!

:hi:

[Justitia]

125. Yup, the RiverWalk is still beautiful, as is the Hill Country, but you got us on those mountains!

And I'd take Oregon over Tennessee too (no offense my Tennessee friends!).

:hi:

[rug]

102. As you know, it was your candidate who got his ass iced in the primary there.

I'll leave it to you to explain the caucus.

BTW, I grew up in the middle of New York City which is, um, four times the size of your city. So I'm really not impressed, sweetie.

[Justitia]

117. Bzzt - wrong. TX results: Obama 99, Clinton 94. Obama won Texas.

And you were making a big deal out of freaking Kentucky, which is basically the size of my immediate neighborhood.

Now you want to compare the 4th largest city (Houston) to NYC? Just like Clinton, always moving those goalposts.

[rug]

124. Bzzzt - Hillary Rodham Clinton 1,459,814 - Barack Obama 1,358,785

That's another 100,000 voters.

I don't know what's worse, your math or your reading comprehension.

And god forbid I would ever want to compare NYC to Houston.

You just go on comparing Houston to Kentucky.

[Justitia]

129. I just love convenient Clinton math. Too bad it's only a fraction. SHE LOST HERE, get over it.

I know Clinton supporters are "uneducated, low-information" voters, but y'all really got to work on those math skills.

Stay with me - 99 is a bigger number than 94 - gasp! SHE LOST.

But you keep flogging for Kentucky!

[rug]

134. I assume you include me in the "uneducated low-information" voter pool because, after all, you know.

I understand you've been in Houston for a while so i'll go slow.

Ready?

Do you discount the primary votes or are you focused only on the delegate count, which as you recall were only determined in closed party conventions weeks after living voters actually voted?

[Justitia]

144. Well, apparently you make up some of her "base" in PA, so if the shoe fits....

And since I've actually been attending TX primaries / caucuses for years, I think I have a much better idea of how they work than one of her sore losers who has doesn't have the first clue and is bad at math.

Yes, 99 IS a bigger number than 94, and you are just going to have to trust me on that.

Obama beat Clinton in Texas, and no amount of math ignorance is going to change that fact.

[rug]

71. How many caucuses equal 250,000 voters?

[Justitia]

81. We had almost DOUBLE that number in just my COUNTY. 250k is pretty piss poor for a WHOLE STATE.

[rug]

107. Brooklyn has more people than your entire city.

[Justitia]

122. Barely, the difference is about the size of ALL the Kentucky voters, who you were referring to first

You were lauding the measly 250k for ALL of the state of Kentucky, not comparing it to NYC - remember?

Kentucky is barely a pimple on the ass of an armadillo.

[rug]

135. "Kentucky is barely a pimple on the ass of an armadillo.'

Good luck with that in November.

[crimsonblue]

41. I picked up dinner for my fiancée tonight...

that doesn't mean I'm going to win "Iron Chef".

[rug]

111. No, but it might mean you'll get lucky for a change.

[crimsonblue]

112. don't pretend to act like you know me, dumbass.

it makes you look stupid.

[rug]

126. Do you mean if I act like I do know you I'll look stupid?

Adios stranger.

[book_worm]

42. And he will pick up almost as much and it will make very little impact.

[izzie]

47. Interesting. Right down the mt. ridge she gets them or is it

a white person gets them. I have gone into those places for trips at one time. It was many years ago but this does not shocks me. One hopes we have moved along from the days my children were in school in the South and Jefferson Davis picture was up on every wall. Black people were not around much in those places in the mt. when I used to go there. It looks like we are more into race than I thought, still. Just wait a women will not go over good either. Not so progressive as one would wish.

[Barack_America]

58. Absolutely. Not making more of an effort in KY was a mistake on Obama's part.

I think the campaign now realizes that.

But oddly enough, it was still the state that clinched the pledged delegate victory. That's certainly a bit of trivia for the history books.

[Kaylee]

59. and I found a shiny, new penny.

[Lady-Damai]

66. QUICK....Donate to HillaryClinton.com n/t

[Kaylee]

78. LOL.

[rug]

113. Good, maybe you can donate to DU now.

Or are you planning to leave after the primaries?

[Kaylee]

133. You're right, I should. I've been here long enough and

DU is starting to become a habit. Congrats, you've done your good deed for the day.

[NeedleCast]

62. That's Nice

Still over though

[enki23]

69. and remains well behind.

not even considering the fact that counting a nonexistent "popular vote" inappropriately discounts the contributions of democrats in caucus states.

[RainDog]

76. many of them racists who said, yeah, I won't vote for a black man

pissing scum. I hate the south. I am so glad I don't live there any longer.

[scheming daemons]

95. And he'll pick up a similar number in a couple hours.... your point?

[rug]

128. I doubt he'll pick up a quarter million votes.

And if you don't understand the significance of such disparate results, politics is not your thing.

[aaronbees]

100. Obama had 1/3 of that number at a rally this weekend

And will himself be picking up a comparable number of votes in Oregon.

So, I think your number there doesn't mean very much in the big scheme of things.

But enjoy your victory.

[rug]

115. I must have missed the voting machines in the park.

[aaronbees]

121. You also missed the point

It's a show of Obama's strength there in Oregon, and an indicator he'll be picking up a good number of votes himself tonight.

But like I said, congrats on Kentucky and savor it while you can.

[rug]

130. I'm sure he will. Congrats to him.

[Genevieve]

101. Lol.

So what? She lost a looonng time ago! LOL

[rug]

116. And you've been posting that for a longer time.

See you in Puerto Rico.

[Genevieve]

136. Lol, again.

[Duke Newcombe]

109. And yet, she still can't close the deal...

:shrug:

Duke

[MadBadger]

147. Currently 180,000