Obama should Come out in Favor of seating ALL Delegates in Florida

[MadBadger]

I just did the math, and if all delegates are seated today in Florida and even in Michigan giving Obama all uncommitted, Obama would lock up the majority of pledged delegates when you give Obama some of Edwards' delegates, which would most likely happen anyway. Obama should endorse the 69-59 plan in Michigan and the full delegates in Florida. Under this formula, Obama would have 1795 pledged delegates, surpassing the 1782.5 needed to achieve the majority of pledged delegates. This move would look good to voters in Florida, where he is down. Obama should announce his support for this plan in about a week, after he expands his leads among pledged delegates.

[Drunken Irishman]

1. He will, don't worry.

[MaineDem]

2. There must be a penalty

It's not fair to those states that followed the rules if no penalty is imposed.

I think they should lose half their delegates. at the very least.

[MadBadger]

6. He's going to be the nominee, so lets just put it behind us.

Superdelegates are smarter than to believe what ever bullshit reason Hillary would offer in regards to popular vote, etc.

[MaineDem]

14. I think this is more about following rules than what SDs may think

Regardless of who gets what votes these two states should not be let go scott free.

[MadBadger]

17. delete

[MadBadger]

18. Taking away their superdelegates is an option, but not one Obama should openly support.

[mac2]

55. Every voter should be counted and not punished for party leadership.

Especially since 2000 where elections were stolen, etc. Otherwise we will be like the Republicans. Maybe we should run our party like theirs...count every vote (at least every computer readout) with no Super Delegates.

[VolcanoJen]

83. Nomination selection/primaries and General elections are not the same thing.

The only persons at risk of being disenfranchised in our primary process are Michigan and Florida delegates, from their wine and cheese in Denver.

This 2000 Gore v Bush argument is deceptive and lame.

[s0ulablaze]

108. OK, so what's your solution for doing it fairly?

This issue was already addressed.  Everyone, including Hilary
agreed to the terms.  The only problem to deal with now is
Hilary reneging her approval of the decision that had been
made to address the issue because she lost, thereby causing
chaos!  She is now manipulating and exploiting the situation
to try to benefit her by making disingenuous claims and false
accusations, distorting the truth, and instigating animosity. 
She’s continuing to kick up dust to use as a cover for her
selfish goals that could have long since settled had she not
been a sore-loser!  

The rules for the primaries had long since been in place, and
warnings were given before Florida and Michigan decided to
blatantly break them.  There is a way to go about dealing with
an issue so that everyone essentially wins, and Florida and
Michigan did not take a path that could ensure that! 
Moreover, their objection to the set time for their primaries
should have been addressed during an appropriate time.  To be
fair to everyone involved in a process, rules are set in
advance.  Generally, changing the rules in the middle of the
process and/or making exceptions are not appropriate actions
to take, if fairness is to be kept in tact.  In addition, the
voters in those states did nothing to stop the people they
elected from taking their unfair, and erroneous actions;
therefore, they must accept the responsibility of their
actions, or lack thereof, and all of us must suffer them, and
come together to help solve the problem.  

Everyone, including Hilary, decided that not including Florida
and Michigan’s votes was the best route to take since the
process had been tainted.  Since there is no sure way to know
how things might have turned out in those states, if
everything went as planned, the only other action we can take
in fairness is to split the votes 50/50, and then figure out a
way to fairly address the objections of Florida and Michigan
for the future.  Barack suggested this from the beginning. 
Contrary to Hilary’s claims, there was no real contest in
Florida or Michigan!  Neither Barack nor anyone else wants to
disenfranchise any voters.  Barack has been very consistent
with following the rules for the primary process, and very
fair in his judgment to address the issues.  We are all doing
our best with what we have to work with.  Florida and Michigan
found out the hard way that the world does not revolve around
them, and that we all suffer the consequences of our actions. 
Hilary, apparently, also has to learn this the hard way.  

As evident from the way Florida and Michigan’s actions have
affected all of us, we are all in this together.  It is to the
benefit of all of us that the process for the primaries is
fair.  The truth is that everyone, including Hilary, knows
that even if her conditions are met, and she is awarded the
votes she is asking for in Florida and Michigan, Barack will
still be the rightful nominee; therefore, it is obvious that,
to Hilary, this isn’t about Florida or Michigan, or about “all
voices being heard” – it’s about herself.  Let us all
remember, that this is bigger than Barack, Hilary, Florida,
and Michigan, and be fair in our resolution to this issue
because  “An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice
everywhere”. 

[SoFlaJet]

113. even though my rep Rob Wexler's SD status

would be lost it would still be worth it just to see debbie wasserman-schultz silenced-another one who is looking fucking crazy these days-just like her girl hill

[PoliticalAmazon]

21. They should follow the rules. Period. What are thinking, setting such a precedent?! n/t

[mac2]

46. The Obama people like the results now so stop....

Just like in Florida when they stopped the vote and recount to declare Bush the winner.

[mac2]

I agree.

Precedent to just appoint a Democratic nominee?

[cali]

30. That's not how the DNC looks at it, I'll wager.

Obama should agree to the RBC plan- as long as he gets the uncommitted in MI. If the DNC decides to award only half votes in FL, he can state his objections, but if they hold firm he should agree to their plan.

[mac2]

51. No it's important to include everyone's vote especially since

2000 were elections were stolen, etc. Otherwise we will be like the Republicans.

[Independent-Voter]

75. I see. Another Veruca supporter that doesn't understand how Representative Democracy works

Wow. You HRC supporters not only suck at math, but you failed Civics too!


Idiots.

[mac2]

85. Representative democracy?

You negate the "delegate representatives" from FL and MI so that is not representative democracy.

[PassingFair]

115. Those primaries were INVALID.

Any "results" from them will have to come
in the form of a compromise.

[KittyWampus]

56. sorry, but this has implications for future primaries. You CANNOT allow a state to go unpunished

in some way. Seat half, strip super delegates.

But allowing Florida to go unpunished means any state can just ignore the DNC any time they choose.

You must have never been in a position of authority.

[mac2]

86. Nor your candidate who wants to negate their voices?

This was a coup to remove the states of FL and MI who had large numbers of liberal voters by DNC (DLC) political leaders. I was in authority and I know a bunch of hacks when I see them.

Punish Dean and the party leaders not the members. They allowed it to happen and get out of line. Their policy on letting the small states vote first since they are Conservative and the rest of us get to vote later on what they want is the reason for the mess in the first place.

They want to even dumb down the conventions by making it a pep rally and not a discussion on policy and agenda. The globalists and warriors for profit win.

Do the primaries all on one day. Get rid of the Super Delegates and I might think it's worth staying in this party. Right now I'm having my doubts.

[PassingFair]

116. Their "voices" were NEGATED by their state party and representatives BEFORE..

the "primaries" even took place.

What is the disconnect with this?

People voted OR DID NOT VOTE, knowing
that the "primary" was INVALID.

Period.

[mac2]

8. Ya fire and find the leaders who did it not the voters.

[Xenocrates]

12. Agreed... Rules are Rules are Rules

[tsuki]

28. Especially in a "zero tolerance" state that is ready to ruin anyone's

life or an infraction of any rule.

[mac2]

59. Whose rules?

Corrupted leaders? The state requires every vote to be counted in the elections...not manipulation by a few party hacks.

[Xenocrates]

81. Party hacks? Howard Dean is a party hack?

[mac2]

87. Yes

[lojasmo]

102. No

Given that you don't know the difference between the DNC and DLC, your opinion on 'party hacks' is without merit.

[mac2]

112. DNC and the DLC are all party leaders having to do with

the money and support politically of the election.

[nxylas]

19. Yeah, what happens in future elections if they are allowed to break the rules with impunity?

Every state will be falling over themselves to be first. Although if that means primary season is over by February, that might not be a bad thing!

[MadBadger]

20. How bout this, change the rules so that other states are heard first...just not Florida.

[Dr. Strange]

43. What's the point of changing the rules...

if the states are allowed to ignore them anyway? Why wouldn't Florida just go ahead and hold their primary early again?

[mac2]

114. And be punished by being silenced at the convention?

All their delegates negated or with little influence? A huge state with many Democrats run by Republicans.

[mac2]

60. Democratic primaries should all be on the same day so the small

and Conservative states don't pick our candidate before the rest of the states get a chance.

[mac2]

90. Primaries on the same day for all Democratic states.

[flpoljunkie]

40. Not only would it set a very bad precedent, Clintons might well try to use this to stay in it!

The closeness in delegates, plus their repeated bogus claim that she has won the popular vote.

[Renew Deal]

74. Assigning them 50-50 is a sufficient penalty.

It makes them irrelevant.

[shraby]

3. He already endorsed the 69-59 plan for Michigan

right after it was proposed. Hillary nixed it.

[mac2]

62. I pick a 100 to 28 plan for Michigan or maybe a 50/50.

[virtualobserver]

4. I think that his people already agreed to a less favorable 73-56 split in Michigan

Hillary wants him to get 0 in Michigan

[MadBadger]

11. Nah, I think he was cool with the 69-59 split.

[mac2]

88. This picking percentage thing is rediculous.

[mac2]

5. What happened in Florida and Michigan are a stain on the

party leadership. All votes or re-votes should be allowed for delegates from both states. The are huge population states which have had their voices silenced. Both candidates and Congressional Democrats should demand that right of the vote.

We blamed Republicans with vote tampering now it is us before they even got to steal our votes.

[americanstranger]

13. Re-votes - never happen.

The states have to pay for them, and neither state has the funds to make it happen.

I know that clinton supporters offered to pay for them, but that's against election law.

I say seat delegates 50-50, no supers allowed. This will mollify the states while still penalizing them for jumping ahead of the line.

- as

[virtualobserver]

16. the stain was created by Hillary Supporters like Jennifer Granholm

who pushed it through in Michigan.

[mac2]

65. Whatever the voters were scambed.

[Skwmom]

29. A revote would give the states who broke the rules, a critical role in deciding the nominee.

That is stupid b/c it is REWARDING them. Furthermore, Florida is not exactly known for clean elections and the FL establishment (Republicans and Dems) are in the tank for Clinton.

[mac2]

44. Better than denying those party members a vote.

It's really voter fraud is it not?

[mac2]

66. Yes...that's why they are being left out.

They are huge states (liberal) with lots of delegates. DA!

[TBF]

52. So big states can act with impunity? That's the whole point of the electoral

college - to make sure small states are heard too. Large states should not be allowed to break the rules because they are large. Dr. Dean will not allow that. If Hillary's supporters threaten to vote Republican in response then we are just going to have to call their bluff. You do not change the rules mid-stream or let large states engage in blackmail.

[ShortnFiery]

58. What makes "a Clinton" POLITICAL ROYALTY?!? We all know that if this was any other

democrat - there wouldn't even be a hearing.

I'm sick of POLITICAL ROYALTY who can circumvent the rules, cheat and lie with impunity ... dammit superdelegates END THIS FIGURATIVE BLOODBATH!?!

[mac2]

67. Or smaller Conservative states pick the candidates for the

rest of the country?

[TBF]

82. You have a valid point and I agree. We should not change the rules

mid-stream in this election, but before the next one a big overhaul could be considered. We are dealing with systems that have been in place a long time, and perhaps with technology we can do better. Perhaps the primaries should be a one-day affair in which registered democrats across the country pick their favorite of all the candidates running. Or perhaps they pick the top 3 and then do a run-off or something.

Or even keep the system we have but rotate the order of the states. I'm sure there are other people out there who could come up with even better ideas. My initial candidate, Bill Richardson, didn't last past New Hampshire this time.

[mac2]

97. Bill Richardson has little appeal with his amnesty, etc.

He refused to allow recounts where there was voter fraud in his state.

[mac2]

91. It's not blackmail it's a coup by Dean and his DLC.

That's how FL and MI see it. Can our party afford to lose so many voters for Dean and his "rules" agenda?

[TBF]

107. Dean is not the one with an agenda - Hillary is...

he is simply enforcing the rules.

[PassingFair]

117. Dean and his "DLC"...

It is to laugh...

:rofl:

Why am I even bothering to argue with you?

Get help.

[NightWatcher]

7. as soon as he figures a way to get the nomination, he'll def want to seat Fl and MI

if/when he gets a few more supers and some of the "uncommitteds", he'll do it

[mac2]

10. That's the problem....it is a party leadership created disaster.

[mohc]

9. And then what happens

When Clinton accepts the Florida proposal but rejects Michigan. If Obama were then to withdraw his support for seating Florida as is it could be damaging. I would much rather he continue to make it clear that he will work to find a solution in FL and MI, but not publicly support a plan until they have a firm agreement from Clinton's campaign.

[Bensthename]

15. No matter how it is split he will still have more..

[jillan]

22. He should do it as a message of unity as well.

Kevin Spacey was on with Andrea Mitchell this morning to promote the HBO movie Recount.

Andrea Mitchell was being snarky about Hillary wanting all the votes counted.
Kevin Spacey said he agreed with Hillary and answered her by saying how is it possible that Democrats wouldn't want all the votes counted.

It would be a good move for him and would help him with *some* Hillary supporters.

And that is one of the things that Hillary has said that is keeping her in the race...that she is staying in to fight for Fla and MI. She has said she will fight for them even if the primaries are over. I know she flipped-flopped on this, but it is a huge issue to her and her supporters.

[MadBadger]

24. Having Florida and Michigan's delegates seated wont be enough for her

She wants their votes seated too. Its not about their delegates, its about their popular votes. That is why she said no to the 69-59 split in Michigan, because this really isnt about the people, this is about her being able to declare to superdelegates that she has more votes.

[jillan]

42. At this point -

It's not going to hurt Obama to have them seated.
But it will help him with winning over some of her voters. He can afford to give her more of what she wants. He only needs like 70 more delegates to get the nom. He'll come out looking like a good guy with her supporters, she'll be happy, and he will still win the nom.

It's a mess. It's too bad it got to this point.

Here's to hoping that they figure something out on the 31st.
Even tho I am still hoping that Hillary can pull this off, I do not want to see this go past the first week of June.

[mac2]

45. Or the Democratic voters of that state?

[SoFlaJet]

64. Look I LIVE in PB county

and I have one question WTF was Ms. Count-all-the-votes in 2000 when we needed her...and Bill? Oh that's right, working towards THIS run in '08 with their silence...the Clintons were invisible down here-I'm sick of their hypocrisy

[mac2]

92. Then take your vote to the primary don't force it on the rest

of the country.

Obama won't be much better with his "free trade" globalization. Read: WSJ May 19, 2008. pg.A3. "Obama May Find It Hard to Govern as Free Trader". Constituents are demanding Congress get out of the WTO. The Congressional number of anti-WTO has grown to over half...and is growing.

[CakeGrrl]

23. Obama needs to shut down Hillary's lying rhetoric and set the record straight

explaining exactly when his campaign accepted compromises on MI and/or FL and when the Clinton campaign rejected them.

Hillary is driving two wedge issues against Obama:

1. Sexism - she has her more virulent outraged feminists vowing to vote against Obama based on the perception that she was forced out of the campaign and into failure because she's a woman;

2. Disenfranchisement - she has another faction of voters who think Obama is responsible for preventing the MI and FL votes from being counted in Hillary's favor. Not one word is being said to make clear that Hillary had no problem with MI and FL being disqualified.

[mac2]

93. Obama negatives....

1. His Faith Based Charity funding is unconstituional and corrupting churches. Public schools are suffering the economic loss. He wants a theocracy.

2. WTO and globalization supporter. Fascism. He violates the Constitution regarding trade.

3. Obama is a US Senator and has done little while in office.

4. He swings between issue and fails to define his real agenda...he lies.

5. He of all the candidates has little experience.

[mac2]

101. I just thought of others...

6.He refuses to talk about impeachment of Bush or accountability for their crimes and robbery.

7. He won't hold independent hearings on 911 even though we've been demanding them since the 2006 election.

8. He has ignored the mandate of the 2006 election.

Yes..Hillary won't do some of these things either. I have to ask why are they the only choice when we wanted "change"...for so many years?

[Skwmom]

25. She wants to increase her delegates so it decreases the number of delegates they have to work on

to change their minds. Plus, I know people who did not vote in FL b/c they were told it WOULD NOT COUNT.

[tsuki]

26. If Florida is seated, I, as a Floridian who was disenfranchised

by Nelson, Thurman, Wasserman-Schultz and the rest of the DLC, will be pissed.

I am appalled by their decision to ignore the Democratic Party Rules Committee. Remember this is the "zero tolerance" crowd. I am appalled by their attempt to blame Gov. Dean for their ill advised actions with their "Screw Dean" buttons.

The Democratic Party of Florida has a real problem. They are a kiss up, kick down organization that would rather support Republicans than Progressive Democrats. They are angry at the grassroots for wanting a say in the party. Go back to sleep proletariat, we will make the decisions and enforce the rules that you will abide by with zero tolerance.

These guys don't need to be rewarded. They don't want to restore our vote. They want their Super Delegate status restored.

Fie on all their houses.

[mac2]

94. Ya hate Fl and MI voters eh?

Guess you don't need them in the GE then?

[BattyDem]

27. There has to be a penalty or else other states will do this in the future.

Cut the delegates in half and strip both states of their SDs. Split the delegates 50/50 because there's no way to know how many people would have voted and who they would have voted for if they thought their votes would count.

Hillary wants them to be seated "as is" but that's a slap in the face to the people who didn't vote because they were told it wouldn't count. Who's representing their interests? Their actions (or inaction) were based on the rules ... and now we're going to change the rules at the end of the game? That will be just as bad as the situation we have now.

50/50 is the best way to do it because the people of FL and MI will be fairly represented on both sides. Hillary won't be happy, but it's not the job of the DNC to pacify a candidate. The most important thing is that no voter feels cheated, lied to or misrepresented.

JMHO :)

[dchill]

32. "...it's not the job of the DNC to pacify a candidate."

Indeed!
:)

[MadBadger]

35. But its Obama's job to get votes

No matter how petty and ridiculous they are being.

[MadBadger]

34. Thats where you are wrong. They have been penalized

Because no campaign has stopped in their, they havent had their real moment in the sun like the other states have. They havent had their economy boosted like they wanted from the campaigns stumping their like you see with the economies of Iowa and NH. And in the end, they look foolish because if they would have left the primary where it was, they would have been extremely important. Florida looks stupid.

[BattyDem]

36. At the very least, they should be stripped of their SDs because ...

I doubt that a lack of boost in their economy and/or looking foolish will be a good enough reason to prevent other states from trying this. There has to be something significant to deter them from going against party rules in the future or else we're going to be dealing with this kind of mess again. :(

[MadBadger]

37. I think this primary season has shown that it isnt always in their best interest to do this

[BattyDem]

38. I hope so ... but power-hungry people usually don't think rationally.

:(

This whole situation sucks because the people in FL and MI had nothing to do with this mess. It was their party leadership that screwed them over. That's why I think 50/50 in both states is the best way to go because there's no way to know how those elections would have turned out if the candidates campaigned and the people thought their votes would count.

The primaries took place under one set of rules, but if the result is counted under a different set of rules, that's not fair to the candidates, to the people who didn't vote or to the people in the other 48 states.

The country is fed up with the GOP. The Dems should be coasting to the GE, but instead, we're forced to deal with this mess. Why did they have to choose this year to cause trouble? :(

FL and MI DUers ... kick your party leaders out on their asses! You deserve better.

[MadBadger]

39. I think they were right though that the calendar needs to change

It isnt right that Iowa and NH are always first. Though I just dont think big states should be first. I think states like NV, NM, AZ, OR, WI, MN, SD, ND, NE, LA, AL, MS, DE, VT should all be rotated into the four spots in the primary calendar, including Iowa and NH

[BattyDem]

41. I agree.

It's not fair that Iowa and NH always go first ... and knock out half our candidates before anyone else gets to vote. I would have no problem with a rotating primary because it's the fair thing to do. :-)

I know what it feels like to not have a say. I'm in NJ. Our primary was always in June. This year, we moved to February 5th and I finally felt like I had a voice. My primary vote never mattered before. The nominee was done deal by the time I got to vote. I could have voted for a candidate who was no longer on the ballot, a third-party candidate or I could have written in "Micky Mouse" ... and it wouldn't have made any difference at all.

[mac2]

98. The primary vote should be on the same day in all states...

small, large, or not so this or that.

[On the Road]

31. I Completely Agree

1) It gives in fully and compeletely to the demands to count Florida and Michigan, and removes any basis for further dissent.

2) From a practical point of view, it prevents a floor fight at the convention which would have unknown consequences.

3) From a political point of view, it redirects any anger state voters might still have towards Dean and the DNC.

Seems like a no-brainer. If the party mechanism wants to impose a penalty, it should be free to do so. Obama does not have to be a part of that.

[zanne]

33. Nobody wants to talk about WHY this happened in the first place.

Florida and Michigan didn't want to follow the rules. They went ahead and had their primaries too early, knowing it would cost them their delegates. I don't think people should be pissed at Obama and his supporters right now. It's misplaced anger. People should be pissed at the goveernments of Florida and Michigan, and they should be speaking up to them now. Otherwise, this will just happen again in four years.

[mac2]

48. Their party leaders didn't follow the rules which were made up to

take away power from those states which are large and powerful. No liberal or progressive policy in this primary election.

If the party members of MI and FL are not allowed to have a voice at this convention then that's the final straw with my party membership. Why bother when the Dem leaders manipulate the election one after the other? Whose fooling who?

[AllentownJake]

57. or the other side of the argument

is to allow smaller states to go first so a better candidate with less money and name recognition has a chance into surviving to Super Tuesday. Which is what I believe is the actual reason not your crazy reason.

I live in a big state and I'm happy letting IOWA and New Hampshire have the first look at our candidates and making a decision based on retail politics.

[mac2]

68. Not me. I'm a progressive whose vote has been stolen by

those small Conservative states. "A better candidate with less money and recognition" wasn't Obama. It was Kucinich.

[AllentownJake]

71. I'm from

PA we never have a say. Ever. We did this year. If FL and MI followed the rules they would have been more important than NH and Iowa.

[zanne]

77. I'm from NH and I'd be happy not to be the first in the nation state!

It's not about that. It's about agreeing to a set of rules, (actually signing onto a set of rules), then trying to change the rules for political advantage.

If you'd like to "have a say" every four years, I'd be supporting you in that effort. Be careful what you wish for, though. The phone calls start in April and it only gets worse the closer you get to the Primary.

[AllentownJake]

78. I had 6 weeks of that

and it was annoying by the third.

[zanne]

79. I was in the Obama phonebank...

Four hours a week of "Leave me the f**k alone"! and "drop dead"! The hang-ups were much easier to take. Then I'd get home and start getting phone calls from all the other candidates, so I got it both ways!

[AllentownJake]

80. I liked knocking on doors

People are less likely to slam the door in your face than tell you off on the phone.

When the Hillary people called in PA if I wasn't busy I'd pretend to be undecided.

[mac2]

89. Sorry for your state.

It must be a pain having them in every town interfering with your lives. We in Illinois wouldn't know what they are was like. They don't give a damn what we want. We're a liberal state without a voice just like Florida and Michigan now.

[zanne]

99. Then starting writing to your reps NOW...

So that you can have a voice in 2012. That's the only way it can be done legitimately.

[mac2]

109. I do.

[mac2]

95. You have to understand. They don't see it that way.

[Coexist]

47. he suggested 1/2 in a local interview here in sunny FL yesterday.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/state/article518651.ece

KISSIMMEE — Delving deeper into Florida's Democratic delegate debacle than he ever has to date, Sen. Barack Obama said Wednesday that "a very reasonable solution" would be to count Florida's disputed primary votes and cut the state's delegation to the convention in half.

Still, in an interview with the St. Petersburg Times, Obama brushed off Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's emphasis on counting Florida's primary as a meaningful indication of the popular vote. She in turn called that stance an insult to 1.75-million Democrats who voted on Jan. 29.

"In all these races if I didn't campaign at all and this had just been a referendum on name recognition, Sen. Clinton would be the nominee,'' Obama told the Times during his first campaign trip to Florida in eight months. "It's pretty hard to make an argument that somehow you winning what is essentially a name recognition contest in Florida was a good measure of electoral strength there."

[kennetha]

49. liar liar pants on fire`

Obama was getting extensive and extremely favorable media coverage at this point. His name was being constantly emblazoned across TV screens and in the newspapers.

[AllentownJake]

53. Obam's campaign

is not all about TV coverage. It's about building an army of volunteers to do give voters information and to get out the vote. Which is how we beat Hillary

He was not allowed to do that in Florida or Michigan.

[Coexist]

61. oh, please. Read this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6068428

Debbie Wasserman-Shultz say that campaigning in a state in the age of television and computers doesn’t make a difference.

Please.

Missouri – from Clinton +13 to Obama +1 (they must not have newspapers there)

Connecticut – from Clinton +8 to Obama +3 (I’ll bet they don’t even read their mail)

Virginia – from Obama +15 to Obama +28 (are Sunday talk shows allowed there?)

California – from Clinton +30 to Clinton +9 (and I hear they know about television there.)

Texas – from Clinton +24 to Clinton +4 (do they get the Google there?)

Ohio - from Clinton +26 to Clinton +8 (this is getting ridiculous)

Pennsylvania – from Clinton +22 to Clinton +9 (what is wrong with all these people. Don’t they know they aren’t supposed to let campaigning move these numbers.)

Darn them all.


(all numbers from RCP past polling data)

[mac2]

96. Make one want to barf at all they hype around his lying

campaign. He's a globalist don't you get his connection to the oligarchy media, etc.? He's a Chicago Tribune pick (like Bob Novak).

[mac2]

110. Every time something happens he gives his opinion and gets

full media coverage like he is President already. Hillary is vilified by the low post numbers on this site and the media.

[AllentownJake]

50. There needs to be punishment

50% seating no Super Delegates is what I want however I feel the final offer will be more generous than what I want.

[mac2]

69. Take those hack political leaders in Fl and MI and fine them

or remove them period. Don't punish the party voters unless you like the states of FL and MI to lose their vote and voices.

How about 10% or 60% seating for their delegates? Are you crazy?

I agree with no Super Delegates.

Why haven't we punishing the Republicans in the states who had such large voter fraud? Political leaders who steal and manipulate elections should be punished regardless of which party.

[AllentownJake]

72. I believe the elections

were tainted by them not counting. Therefore seating 50% is generous IMO.

the supers from that state should not even be allowed in the convention as spectators. They sat by and let this happen.

[ShortnFiery]

54. No, don't give "an inch" because ... HRC will take EVERY DAMN THING to include the votes.

:shrug:

[PoliticalAmazon]

63. Thank you for the reality check. Plus, it would be "politics as usual"....

and doing the politically expedient, even when it breaks the rules.

I thought the very foundation of Obama's campaign was to change the way D.C. does politics?

[mac2]

70. Twenty lashes for FL and MI

[Renew Deal]

73. They should ultimately seat all delegates

But they should not be allowed to fundamentally change the outcome.

[mac2]

111. What? You are here but you don't count?

[Bill McBlueState]

76. I agree

The other benefit is that, by not suffering any real consequences, Florida and Michigan may encourage other states to move their primaries up. This pedestal we put certain small rural states on is silly.

[nonobadfish]

84. I agree, but I'm not sure the DNC will let him say ok since they want a penalty. Will they?

[mac2]

104. Ask the party leaders in Fl and MI to step down

but not before they say what their reason were for violating the party rules. I'd like a fair and open process. Was it a coup and deliberate action on their part. It could have been voter manipulation and they have committed a crime under the election laws.

I'd like to say...it maybe this small Conservative state having more power than the larger liberal ones. Why isn't Obama going back to FL instead of Iowa? Because Iowa gave him a head start as a New Democrat.

[2rth2pwr]

100. He should have done this months ago, it is the right thing to do.

[george_maniakes]

103. obama should follow hillarys pre-iowa plan....

That these contests dont really count.

[dansolo]

105. Seat them all, but only give then half a vote each

And no votes for the superdelegates--the elected officials in FL and MI caused this mess.

[mac2]

106. Like Blacks at before it was changed.

[mac2]

118. So why punish the voters?

Fire the party leaders and take away their power. It's obivious that they rebelled against party rules. What exactly was their excuse except the primary was over before it even reached them?

Giving a huge state delegates half a vote is just plain bad politics. They are very angry that we treat them like citizens without a full vote or voice. We need them to fight McCain.

The rules set down by the party leaders regarding the primary is just outrageous and has caused a huge break in the party not Hillary.

[LiberalAndProud]

119. Leaving the states free to hold their primary whenever they

choose? What instrument do you propose that the DNC put in place to maintain any relevance in controlling the primary process?

[mac2]

120. A national primary for the Democratic candidates all held on the same day.

All states equal in power.

The Senate gives small states power but they shouldn't decide who runs for office for our party. Right now the large states don't get a say (that's how they see it anyway).

I agree they (liberal large states) are left out of the process on purpose.

[Hamlette]

121. And just say any state can ignore the rules because we'll ignore them in the end

I think that's a bad message.

This is a rule with a legitimate purpose. It should have consequences of we'll have trouble in 2012 and on.