If RFK's Babby Boy Understands What Hillary Meant why Can't DUer's?

[Geek_Girl]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/05/rfk-jr-says-no.html

In a statement, Kennedy Jr. said: “It is clear from the context that Hillary was invoking a familiar political circumstance in order to support her decision to stay in the race through June. I have heard her make this reference before, also citing her husband's 1992 race, both of which were hard fought through June. I understand how highly charged the atmosphere is, but I think it is a mistake for people to take offense.”

[msongs]

1. the 'baters and messiah worshippers don't care what rfk jr thinks nt

[MrsT]

6. What did you post about bittergate/ snubgate and facescratchinggate?

I am curious.

[tekisui]

11. I care more about what I think. It comes back to the question,

What is Hillary's motivation? She knows she cannot be Nominated the race. She lost, and has known that for weeks, maybe months. So, what is her motivation for staying in? And, what is her motivation for her comments?

[CaptJasHook]

57. How do you know what RFK Jr. really thinks?

What else is he going to say publicly? At least he has class, unlike Hillary.

And no, I don't need to have any class. RFK, jr. is in a position of authority in the party and is compelled to polite and to not offend Hillary or her supporters. I have no such constraints.

[populistdriven]

70. Precisely! Kick for Truth! Well Put!

[roguevalley]

82. RFK Jr gets to have his opinion. I give all people who have suffered

a loss the right to their opinion. But I doubt his brother, David, would feel the same way. He saw his father murdered on TV and eventually would die of self-destructive behavior the family laid onto that moment. Everyone in that family is entitled to their opinion and no one can say one word or the other about it. But for me, it sucked monstrously what she said and nothing will change that. All the dipshits out there that find nothing awful about her remarks are going to answer some day to God about it. You need to examine your consciences. If you can find them.

[skooooo]

2. A shill by any other name.

[jenmito]

3. This has much less to do with the Kennedys and much MORE to do with the spectre of Obama

being assassinated in June, justifying her reason for staying in the race.

[HereSince1628]

32. Yep.

It would be a whole lot easier to accept as a mistake if the Clintons hadn't been doing thinly veiled language all spring. Always skirting the edge of two meanings. One sinister, the other innocent. They have proven that they are masters at this.


So, yes indeed, she was talking about June. And the way she did that was to remind everyone that a terrible thing happened in June 1968.
This from the most politically astute team in American politics? An accidental slip of the tongue? I just don't think so.

[jenmito]

41. Exactly. And for the MSM to "give her the benefit of the doubt" saying she apologized when

she didn't, and saying she was probably tired (even while pointing out she said this before) makes me sick. ESPECIALLY when her supporters blame US for it all!

[grassfed]

74. good post

[SoxFan]

4. RFK Jr got his apology...

Malia, Sascha, and Michelle are still waiting.

Fuck Hillary and horse she rode in on.

[QC]

5. Because these people need drama and indignation like a junky needs heroin.

They're hooked on outrage and hate.

[skooooo]

8. more people to add to my ignore list

If you can't *understand* this, than there's something wrong with you. Even if you don't agree with how people see this, you should be able to understand it. Honest to god it's not that difficult.

[QC]

20. LOL! You kids are so funny with this "I'M GOING TO IGNORE YOU!1!1!!!!" routine.

It's so eighth grade mean girl, like people are supposed to be devastated that some self-important twit is making a big song and dance of not listening to them.

Grow up, Heather.

[patrice]

27. Thanks for that! All of this "I'm putting you on my Ignore List" is much more about POWER, than

it is about the Issues.

[QC]

28. You are welcome. It has gotten so old.

I hate what this crowd has done to DU.

[patrice]

33. Yes, I started commenting on Troll Wars a few months ago, but let it drop.Time to pick it up again.

There IS something to be gained by those who really do want, more than anything else, to adapt and grow toward the truth, but they must start by being aware that they are caught in between "muckers" in both camps, who indeed do know who and what they and their reciprocals on the other side and their goals are.

[QC]

51. I just wish people would start talking again,

as opposed to shrieking.

[patrice]

64. Asking one another honest questions and answering honestly would be a good starting point. nt

[QC]

68. We used to see some of that on DU. n/t

[patrice]

25. By that principle, if you can't understand their not understanding, then there's something wrong

with you too.

[tekisui]

13. "These People"? You mean Democrats?

[QC]

23. No, the indignation junkies, many of whom, I am convinced, are not Democrats at all

but just plain old trolls here to create division.

[Renew Deal]

17. Are you talking about your friends at Hillary is (not) 44?

Tell me again how you and your friends feel about Ted Kennedy.

[QC]

26. Are you talking out your, well, um, you know, again?

I don't support Hillary, didn't vote for her, and have never been to that site.

I do, however, think that a day of nonstop drama tantrums is enough. Don't you? Or do you think that something is accomplished by people running around weeping and wailing and rending their garments and in general acting like a bunch of loons?

[Renew Deal]

46. Here's what I think.

I think Hillary supporters should admit she was wrong instead of going through the contorted defenses of Hillary. That's a much better way to go. You can't blame people for being outraged, but you can blame people for flatly defending her comments.

[QC]

50. I can--and do--blame the guilty parties for both...

refusing to admit that Clinton's remarks were, at best, excruciatingly tactless and ill-considered, and responding to those remarks by posting hundreds of "FUCKING FUCK FUCKING HILLARY FUCK HER FUCK HER FUCK FUCK FUCK!!!1!1!!!!1!1!!!" posts.

You have been here long enough to know that there was a time when we had a good bit of rational discussion on DU. It hasn't been that way these past few months, in large part because the forum has become a playground for blind fanatics and shrieking drama queens.

[Renew Deal]

67. It's primary season

And this won't settle down until it's over. I know how shitty the primaries can be. This is like torture.

[QC]

69. Yes, it's awful, and this is much worse than the last. n/t

[leftofcool]

24. Ya think?

[patrice]

39. THAT is a Biological certitude. This addiction pervades every walk of American "life".

Gossip is the national past-time.

[Ilsa]

7. I understood her also. She spoke poorly though, and she is

really hurting from it. She looks very tired.

She should have been less specific about RFK, and more specific in recounting the number of times and dates the primary was settled in June.

[weezy2736]

9. "If RFK's Babby Boy Understands..."

Fail.

Most times I can let that pass, but today I'm not feeling too generous.

And just having the word "understand" so close... A true oasis of hilarity.

[dkf]

10. Its clear from her apology to RFK that she doesn't even know what she did wrong.

Clueless. What can I say.

[Heather MC]

47. I wouldn't call that an apology,

I regret my words IF it was offensive
I agree with you she has no clue.

Maybe IF she suspended her Secret Service Detail that she has had since 1992
the outrage of what she said would become more clear to her.

Not wishing any harm to befall her, but for someone who has lived with the treat of possible assassination since 1992, she should chose her words more carefully

[rurallib]

12. I know what she meant but she picked the poorest way to express it

and a president's greatest tool is words. If she can't express a simple thought like 'it ain't over til it's over' without riling up half of America, how will she play on the world stage? This is hardly the first time she has done something similar. Had Bush said that we'd all be all over him!

[tekisui]

18. Exactly. Spot on. She is not capable of maintaining a communication

with America, without stirring up shit.

Just look at all of the horrendous things that have been repeated on the airwaves because she chose the worst way to say something.

[jenmito]

14. She's raised assassination before and her surrogates have directly said Obama could be killed...

There have been about 3 other campaigns-more recent ones-that went into June with no assassination involved.

[patrice]

35. I've been wondering why those previous mentions weren't met with so much sturm und dang. nt

[jenmito]

42. Video is much more powerful than words on paper.

[patrice]

44. This is true. All of the very important non-verbal cues are there.

I guess those previous incidents were mentioned here on the DU, just lost in the blizzard of Troll Wars.

It is just that environments such as this are sooooooo manipulable by even just a few well organized purposeful individuals, most effectively on BOTH sides, so I must observe, that this recent storm could easily be (but isn't necessarily) another orchestrated event.

[jenmito]

55. I agree...

good post. :hi:

[patrice]

71. It will be good when the non-Troll, but somewhat benighted, members of DU evolve to the next level

and start reacting more strategically to what the hot-button pushers are doing. Going to the next level will be a skill that generalizes well out there in the REAL world of Grassroots organizing.

:hi: Back at you, jenmito! :hi:

Solidarity!

[jenmito]

79. I feel the same way...

Yup-Solidarity! :hi:

[Renew Deal]

15. I think DUers understand what she meant too.

At least the non-Clinton cultists do.

[crankychatter]

16. To all the AAs and Obama supporters that go to bed praying for his safety EVERY night

to his family

to those that acknowledge the extraordinary threat... to the most prestigious police force in the world (Secret Service) that are working SO VERY hard to protect him...

Frankly... you absolutely do NOT get it... maybe you should at least TRY, eh?

[Tennessee Gal]

19. If he can understand, why can't you?

I thought it was a poor thing to say, but if RFK,Jr. can accept it I certainly can.

[CreekDog]

21. i understand what she meant, but i think it was totally tone deaf to use that example

that's my issue.

she says stupid things, with great frequency.

just yesterday i was thinking she should be VP and then she does this.

everytime i try to give her the benefit of the doubt something happens:

1) "hard working white americans"
2) florida primary = zimbabwe
3) as far as i know (not a deal breaker there, but smarmy nontheless)
4) the stupid ass red states don't count, caucuses are unfair, etc. etc.
5) saying she was ahead in the popular vote while excluding 4 states from that count AND saying this was fair

sheesh. she says stupid things and i don't know why, it's not helping her.

[patrice]

22. This is about who we are and what our relationships to her are. RFK is entitled to his position.

So is everyone else, because there's no way to adapt and grow unless you begin with an authentic position, right or wrong.

[RBInMaine]

29. He's a SUPPORTER giving her benefit of the doubt. Fine, but still DUMB to say .

[4themind]

30. What does Ted Think?

Do you know? Did Hillary know what he would have thought? If she somehow knew, did she sufficiently care about the feelings of ALL of the kennedy's before she made this comment? If she did not why did she risk even the POSSIBILITY of the effect of her referencing the assassination, just before the 40th anniversary of the shooting, and to use it for personal political justification?? Does the opinion of the son cancel out or supercede that of the brother(whom IIRC has yet to speak)? I'm not trying to be snarky but maybe the verdict is still out on the full impact of her statement among the Kennedy family either way would you agree? Although I think we'd both agree that the issue has been assumed too much to either side of the spectrum on DU, but I'd really like to hear what Teddy thinks, and I will be sympathetic to his feelings on this.
t

[Shae]

37. Teddy is not her supporter. . .

So I would guess she thinks, "Screw him."

[DeschutesRiver]

31. What he also said

was that he had neither read it or heard the video of what she said.

If he does his homework and sees/reads it and still has the same opinion, then perhaps he is of similar character to Hillary, which means it wouldn't bother him at all. There are lots of people who believe there are no real boundaries when you are trying to win power, like the behavior of those we currently have in office.

Not a place I want to be or want our country to be any longer, but we will get what we vote for in the fall.

[midnight]

34. Thank you for repeating this message. I hope we can

realize we are here to vote on a important race that involves so many important issues that are being decided for us why we emotionally decide if someones statements crossed a line that does not need to be discussed.

[BklnDem75]

36. Didn't he break from the fold...

when the rest of his family endorsed Obama? Why wouldn't he defend her stupid statement?

[Fovea]

38. I know what she wants me to think it meant

and as reasons to stay in the race go it is one that makes no sense, in a first world democracy.

Now, if this were Pakistan, Iraq, Israel, or any of those third world nations that assassinate their opposition politicians and one can make that argument, very severe measures are warranted to restore democracy to the world's largest military power. Capital punishment severe. Nuremberg severe.

So which is it?

If HRC's comment is not a fear mongering slam on Obama, it is an admission that we are a failed state-- a rogue and lawless nation that is liable to kill another reformer as, if you buy her argument, we have done regularly enough for forty years that is requires a safety backup. If that is the case, I expect her to run the rest of her campaign from an undisclosed location.

We are not, then, simply a rogue nation, but a nucular(tm) rogue nation at that. If Hillary is correct in her concern, then will she support asking the UN to oversee this election? Will she support the de-baathification of American government?

Otherwise she does not want to solve what is a fatal illness for a democracy... fear of participation in one's own government, just use it to ramp up fear...

That seems familiar, somehow.

[Pathwalker]

40. Meanwhile, John McCain's had FOUR Malignant Melanoma's since 2000.

But, apparently no Obama supporters have bothered to notice, much less care. That's FOUR bouts of skin cancer kept out of the news....

[ampad]

43. Not surprising

That you would want someone to tell you how to feel about such a situation. So tell me this, when so many people knew what Obama meant with his bitter comment did you stand up for him? Or were you silent or tagged along with Hillary supporters? I'm not going to get tired of asking this question because now that the tables are turned most of you don't want to answer it.

[ShortnFiery]

45. Because I honestly believe that RFK, Jr is employing psychological defense mechanisms.

He can't permit himself that friend for decades is a truly VILE narcissistic sociopath.

However, as what she said "sinks in," I have an inkling that he will distance himself from her in the near future.

[WA98296]

48. Getting paid to post positive comments for Hillary? Here's your link:

voteforhillaryonline.blogspot.com/2007/11/get-paid-to-post-positive-comments.html


Pathetic

[Dancing bolt]

49. One possibility

It's possible that our fellow DU'ers share RFK Jr.'s view, but pretend not to do so in order to "harm" their rival, or just to have a good time.

[saltpoint]

52. From all evidence, Senator Kennedy's 11 children are all grown up,

that is, the ones that survive.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr is not uniquely amazing, but he is almost so, and in any case one of the most impressive citizens I could name.

His model of citizenship is IMO the exact and total opposite of the Bush model, and both families are New England Big Money and iconic.

RFK Jr is a New York resident. He is extraordinarily and influentially active in environmental affairs in that part of our country. His endorsement of his own state's U.S. Senator for the White House makes practical sense, as it is thru her and Chuck Schumer's offices that any meaningful environmental reform would have to go before it reaches the legislation stage on the floor of the Senate to become national policy.

If Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. walked into a tavern I was in, I would fight anybody in the joint to the death for the privilege of buying him a beer.

[Swamp Rat]

56. Hey OC

I see a few DUers posting threads about RFKjr as a rebuttal to criticisms of Hillary's poor choice of words. It's really a fallacious, Big Man argument because it does not matter what RFKjs says. What matters is what Hillary said in light of American history and political assassination, and the fear of future assassinations, both on the national level and within African American communities.

The omission of consideration of African Americans, in particular, belies a callousness at best.

I think I'll get some coffee now. :hangover:

edit: coffee retreived :D

[saltpoint]

58. I'm omitting a lot and probably shouldn't.

True that RFK Jr endorsed HRC but true also that he and his uncles and dad were genuinely committed to Afro Americans in broad and inclusive gestures of citizenship.

True that I did not say so and ought to have.

Sorry.

[Swamp Rat]

63. Sorry, That is not what I meant.

I am talking about people quoting RFKjr's statement/reaction to Hillary's screw-up in order to justifiy their blatantly incendiary remarks and ad hominem about DUers who are upset after this dredging-up of horrible memories, i.e. June 5-6th, 1968, as well as other assassinations.

Their desperation and offense is worse than meets the eye.

I hope I was clear this time, as I just woke up. :hangover:

[saltpoint]

66. Well, if there's any of that coffee left, can I beg a cup of it?

I think I'm the one who's cement-brained, not you.

[Asgaya Dihi]

53. Two points

First, a single incident on its own merits wouldn't be that big of a deal but as the list Olbermann put together in his comment mentions it was hardly an isolated incident,. It's easier to forgive or forget one or a few than it is with many, eventually nerves get rubbed raw and it all becomes an irritant. I'd think that's a part of it.

Second part can be found here. http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2008/02/20/racist-attacks-on-obama-growing-more-heated/

For some it was a stray comment that didn't mean much, for a lot of others it was at best putting the wrong ideas into heads that are already having too many wrong ideas and at worst it might have been a hope. Freudian slip or something about an imagined path to the nomination or something discussed in private.

Given the history of black leaders when they get too powerful you can't really question why it's a difficult subject, more so for some than for others. It shouldn't have been said, even if it wasn't our concern to start with it should still be one we try to understand and account for.

[cbc5g]

54. Why? Because hes a positive person

But Hillary's campaign ran a horrible campaign against Obama and complained to the media about every Gaffe he made and called him out on them. Obama's not doing that here but you damn better know his supporters are going to. We won't forget what kind of disastrous RW campaign Hillary ran against Obama.

[hokies4ever]

59. He wants Hillary as V.P. so that he can have her senate seat

sorry, but I've got to call them like I see them. :rofl:

[QueenOfCalifornia]

60. What is a "babby?"

Just curious.

[gal]

61. Because he is not the only one affected by this.

She used Ted Kennedy's current situation to excuse her words. Words she also uttered in March. What is her excuse then?

She also deliberately did not apologize to the Obama family, I think she owes them one as well.

This was deliberate and rehearsed to be used if needed.

[Skrelnick]

62. A poor explanation for a HORRIBLE analogy

Sorry, not buying it.

[dansolo]

65. Because the insult was to Obama and his supporters

I don't care if Hillary-supporter RFK Jr. is not bothered by her remark. The implication of her words was not directed to him. You seem to buy into the idea that her apology to the Kennedy's was sufficient. She should have been apologizing to Obama and his supporters, with whom the fear of assassination is all too real.

[shadowknows69]

72. If RFK Jr. Isn't livid at his father being used as a political football

I don't personally understand it but, I'll be angry for him.

[Swamp Rat]

76. Jethro Tull: "Thick as a Brick"

:D :hi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWXB9XuSq5w

[shadowknows69]

80. Ooh, nice find Swampy

I love Tull

[Joe the Revelator]

73. You left out the party where Bobby Jr admitted to not having seen or heard the comment

Plus the comments weren't aimed at RFK jr, they were aimed at Obama.

[YBR31]

75. If RFK's Babby Boy Understands What Hillary Meant why Can't DUer's?

Hillary could have easily made her point about the timing of the primaries lasting past June in the past without raising the prospect of assassination. She knew what she was doing. She raised the assassination topic before (http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/05/hillarys_bizarre_rfk_comment.html) Moreover, her argument is misleading, in 1968, the primaries started later. The New Hampshire primary was in March of 1968 not January. In 1992, Tsongas dropped out in March and the primaries were effectively over at that time.

[stray cat]

77. He is a Hillary surrogate and has stated such

[Overseas]

78. In the immediate shadow of Huckabee's grotesque gaffe at the NRA convention

Her instincts should have cut that reference out of her speech. I am still reeling from the Huckster's comments at the NRA convention. I'm surprised that she wouldn't also still be so grossed out by his remarks that she'd stop herself from rolling out a careless remark like that.

[apocalypsehow]

81. Another ridiculous logical fallacy - "appeal to authority." RFK's "Babby (Sic) Boy's" opinion is

just that: his opinion. It changes nothing as regards the vile nature of HRC's filthy remarks - or the POS's that defend her.