Unapologetic Pro-Hillary thread.

[Skip Intro]

I think the fact that she is taking this to every voting state and territory is tremendous.

I think the fact that she is saying to all who have voted since Iowa, when I first started seeing calls for her to drop out, your voice will count is effin great, for democracy and the party.

I think the fact that she continues in the face of the most vicious treatment I have ever seen, from the media and many Obama supporters is beyond admirable.

I know this woman is a fighter.

I know she cares about the people of this country.

I know she would make one hell of a president.

And to the flamers sure to come, have at it. It won't change a thing.

[Teaser]

1. She's not bugged me nearly so much as some others

.

[Joe the Revelator]

2. Let it sink.

[Skip Intro]

5. How nice of you to encourage DUers not to reply to my thread.

Really.

Andmirable.

Really.

[grassfed]

75. LET IT SINK

[2rth2pwr]

88. kicking for let it sink.

[jjr5]

164. I see the poster "Count every vote . . "

and have a question for you.

If the Clintons really cared about "Counting every vote," why aren't they investigating the voting booth problems/ voter suppression that likely occurred in Pennsylvania and Texas? Is it b/c they won in those states, so it doesn't matter? Do they not care about a flawed voting process where not EVERYBODY'S voice is counted?

Also, no one is talking about the screeching chimp hanging in the corner of the room - the fact that Hillary Clinton signed a contract in 2007 saying that Florida and Michigan delegates would not be seated because the states broke the party's rules. She thought it was okay before to not let these votes "count." I think this makes the fact that she is screaming at the top of her lungs, now, for these votes to count, all the more ridiculous and frankly means she is lying.

[MethuenProgressive]

127. kicking the 'let it sink!' spam!

:kick:

[2rth2pwr]

170. kicking for let it sink.

[polmaven]

175. Let it RISE!

Kick....for the "let it sink" folks...afraid of positive HRC threads! sorry I can't recommend...just saw it now)

[Straight Shooter]

188. LET IT RISE!

Hey, Skip Intro! :hi:

[jjr5]

158. "Admirable"

Also, what about the attacks she has posed against her fellow Democratic senator? Isn't she supposed to be supporting the likely presidential nominee?

[polmaven]

173. Just a little like

not wanting to let all the voters vote, or for their votes to all count!

[Xipe Totec]

7. K&R

[papau]

43. Love unity - bet you're for Hill as VP - right? - Hell - those Hill supporters will crawl back

[Skittles]

96. you sound fucking ridiculous n/t

[Skittles]

95. juveline n/t

[JoFerret]

115. That was nice of you

...to give the thread a kick like that.
Good work. You are coming along nicely with the unity idea. Well done.

[BlueStateGirl]

177. Why? It does not in anyway attack or disparage Barak Obama?

[cliffordu]

3. Her doing everything in your post won't change a thing, either.

[gateley]

4. I commend you and your fellow Hillary supporters

for the strength of your convictions and your steadfast loyalty. Really. Even though I want to wring your necks at times!

[littlebit]

6. I think I agree

with you.

[DJ13]

8. It won't change a thing.

You got that part right.

[JohnnyLib2]

9. It's really quite simple, isn't it?

Thanks. K & R

[Dave From Canada]

10. I think Hillary's great. It's too bad that some people in the media have been telling her to get

out of the race since way back in March. I'm glad she didn't listen to them.

[Ken Burch]

91. Obviously that means you want McCain to win, since you know

that all HRC's continued presence has done is just to have let him back into contention when Obama would have a fall victory locked up if she'd only agreed to run a non-Obama bashing campaign.

The only other rationale for her staying in would have been to run as a more progressive candidate than Obama. Continuing to run to his right has only hurt the party.

[cornermouse]

107. I thought it was totally ridiculous that the other candidates

were pushed out before Super Tuesday. Why bother to have the pretense of a race if you're only going to allow a single candidate to run after the first one or two states vote? You might as well have the DNC openly and publicly choose the candidate and be done with the whole thing.

[Ken Burch]

108. My point is, HRC's people were arguing that they'd have it nailed down by then.

If HRC had swept Super Tuesday, none of them would be saying "let everyone vote" and none of them would give a damn about Florida and Michigan.

[cyndensco]

166. No one was pushed out. They chose to leave when they saw it was over for them.

No one asked hillary to leave until it became clear, mathematically, that she was done. Obama and his campaign has never asked her to leave - frankly, they don't have the right to.

But, I do not think it is admirable to stay and fight when the fight is over. I think it is much more admirable to admit defeat and leave gracefully.

[Gman]

156. Funny how people who have threatened in the past to bolt from the party

are now staunch dyed in the wool Democrats, as long as the Democrat fits their version of what the Democratic Party is.

[Indenturedebtor]

155. People want her to leave because of her tactics.

It's really quite simple. Mike Tyson had to leave the ring when he bit his opponent's ear off right? Right.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LWolf]

12. I felt the same way in '04,

when DK stayed in it until the end.

I'm grateful that he did. Even though we knew he wouldn't be nominated, it gave me the chance to vote for someone I actually WANTED to be president.

There wasn't anyone left on the ballot that I truly WANTED to be president this time around, but I remember the way that felt, and I'm glad that HRC has stayed in the race. She has a better chance than DK did in '04.

I tossed her my vote on May 20th, for that very reason. I wanted the people who still haven't voted to have a choice on their ballot, and a say in the process.

[yourguide]

13. There were no calls for her to drop out after Iowa. None.

[KansasVoter]

14. Hillary has run a horrible campaign. She has failed beyond belief. She has damaged her name forever.

[StevieM]

94. Nope. Her name is not damaged, that is just wishful, hateful thinking by Obamites

and it reflects more on Barack then it does on Hillary.

I have never respected Hillary Clinton more then I do right now.

Steve

[still_one]

135. and that is just YOUR wishful thinking. The way Senator Clinton has ran her campaign

has more than adequately demonstrated who the Clinton's REALLY are

The emperor has no clothes

[StevieM]

142. She has run an honorable campaign, unlike Obama who has shown himself to be

the descendent of McCarthy. Your wish that she has demonstrated who the Clintons really are is just that--a wish. It doesn't make it true. It is just an arrogant declaration by Obamites who see the terms for re-unification to be the villification of the other side, and offering those who voted the wrong way the chance to redeem themselves. This is one of the many reasons he will lose in November. The main one, of course, is that he is a bad human being.

I have never loved Hillary Clinton more. She is everything a Senator should be.

Steve

[Whisp]

15. bankruptcy bill? patriot act?

partaker in the demise of John Kerry in 2004?
or was it that anti-flag burning that tells you how much she cares?

taking credit for others hard work?

misremembering being snipered upon - and joking/laughing about it (like Gorge looking for WMDs at the presser and giggling?)

or maybe obliterating Iran with it's women and children and her great humanitarism, all in one neat confusing package.

and don't forget the cluster bombs. ya know, kids without legs, or dead, can't become good defenders of their country.
and voting for war.

yeah, she'd make a great president,
not too far in footstep behind that giggling mass murderer you have now.

[proud2BlibKansan]

79. Flag burning amendment

[galledgoblin]

105. making Jack Thomson look moderate on video game censorship....

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=158
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Entertainment_Protection_Act

[Spider Jerusalem]

16. You need to learn to spell 'vicious'.

'Viscous' means 'thick, and resistant to flow'. And she's brought a lot of it on herself. Sniper fire. 'I never supported NAFTA.' 'Hard-working white people!'

And if the behaviour we've seen in this campaign is any indication, Hillary doesn't give a flying fuck about the people of this country, only about herself, and she'd make a horrible president. Her very obvious lack of leadership AND management skills testify to what sort of president she'd be. SHe values loyalty over competence (see: Patti Solis Doyle), her staff are SCARED to tell her bad news (she didn't know she was broke and no-one wanted to tell her, for god's sake), she has a demonstrated lack of contingency planning (see: 'over by Super Tuesday!'). A Hillary Clinton presidency would likely be as much a disaster as Bush's has been, for many of the same reasons.

[Skip Intro]

17. thanks for the spellcheck

[Spider Jerusalem]

18. Care to address the other points?

[lumpy]

29. Bump

v

[DemVet]

22. But you gloss right over Obama's lies, correct?

[TahitiNut]

92. You mean when he said, "You're likable enough, Hillary"??

Yeah ... that really was a disgusting lie. :shrug:

[salguine]

159. Maybe "viscous" is what they meant.

After all, Clinton herself is thick and resistant to flow.

[Spider Jerusalem]

168. Heh.

Not so much though. Her candidacy is circling the drain, after all.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

19. What Skip Intro said. Times 10. A good fight always shows your

weaknesses and makes your stronger. I truly don't know what the Obama maniacs are so dern worried about. Either their guy has it or not. The point of continually trashing Hillary and her supporters is inane, lame behavior. You guys sound desperate. Of what?

I have asked several times and no one will answer, what are the Obama supporters so afraid of Hillary about? How is she hurting Obama if he already has it sewn up? Do you think that maybe it isn't quite over even though you scream it from the roof tops that she can't win? Think she is going to pull a rabbit out of her hat and conjure up some delegates? Why are they so anxious to get her out? You don't like her, okay, but I smell fear and loathing of some unknown boogey woman. BOO!!!

If you guys are so afraid Clinton in the primaries how on earth is your guy going to handle the rethugs? Any "sin" you think Hillary has pulled in the primary season was pat-a-cake and skipping rope time when it comes to the general election and McInsane and his thugs get rolling. You say Obama has the spine, the knowledge, the experience, and the charisma to run this country but you end up apoplectic with Hillary staying in the race.

Hope she stays in until the conventions. That's what this country needs a good old barn burning convention. Enough of the scripted pomp and circumstance and let's get down and dirty and have some fun.

[proud2BlibKansan]

81. She is splitting the party

while McCain sits back and laughs.

[JoFerret]

116. Nah.

Hype and hopelessness talking there.

[Ken Burch]

93. It would have to be a tragedy for HRC to sneak in at the last minute.

It would make the fall campaign a passion-free zone and a principle-free zone. It would be meaningless to have a race between two hawks, since being hawkish on foreign policy means you have to agree to never be progressive domestically. The money spent on war guarantees it, since you have to be able to increase social spending to call yourself progressive. Mundane executive orders aren't progressive and neither is anything fiscally conservative.

[palindrome]

186. lol

[IsItJustMe]

143. I don't care for her assassination talk. That's one thing that a person could be afraid of.

[DerekJ]

20. There is a point when you stop being a fighter, and start becoming a national joke.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

28. Really, you think democracy is a national joke? So disenfranchising

18 million voters is a joke? This sounds like shades of the Florida recount all over again. You are ahead by a slim margin so stop the counting, everyone go home, game over? Quick before those delegates change their mind or Obama does something really stupid to cost him the nomination. That is the only reason why you keep screaming - your afraid "something" might happen and you won't win.

Scardy cat Obamamaniacs are the joke if they are worried about some competition. I know you want her out, but why? You haven't told me what she is doing to hurt Obama. According to you (and I'm not disagreeing) he is just getting stronger and stronger. Where's the harm of her staying in other than your unnamed fears?

[DeepBlueC]

34. like a moth to flame...

so to speak; here you are. You make perfect sense to me. Obviously I am crazy.

[dionysus]

36. they're not disenfranchised just because she lost...

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[DerekJ]

37. See, the problem is that you're living in a delusion. He's over the delegate majority by 160

delegates. THAT MEANS SHE CAN'T CATCH UP.

The states are not being disfranchised in any way other than many other states in other primaries that got wrapped up early, they still vote, but it doesn't matter. The majority already decided. That’s democracy. It happens all over the world.

When there is 100 people and we surveyed 60, 51 said yes, it doesn't matter if the opinion of the other 40. It’s majority already, take the vote of the other 40 for the record, but it doesn't influence the outcome.

[Democrat 4 Ever]

46. Then where is the harm? You are so dang sure she can't win than

why all the wailing and gnashing of teeth? Your guy has is wrapped up, take a few days off and then start gearing up for November. Obama has it nailed, right? Nothing can be done to change anything, right? So let the woman run her race and Obama can get some much needed rest. No harm, no foul.

You guys know nothing is over until the convention. Until his name is nominated, the roll call starts, the delegates cast their votes, and a candidate leaves Denver with his (or her) name on the ticket it ain't over. You can add up the delegates seven ways to Sunday but nothing is written in stone until then. That is why you are so desperate to get her out now. You are still afraid of her. That is awesome - that is the power of Hillary.

[ima_sinnic]

55. where is the harm? the nominee should have to keep fighting off attacks from

someone on "his" side, another Democrat?

DUH -- she has done nothing to support the nominee, everything in fact that she can get away with to smear and belittle him, and everything to draw attention to her own moronic, inept, incompetent, shrill, ridiculous, pathetic campaign, to the detriment of the Democrats in the GE, who are wasting a lot of energy on her histrionics. SHE.IS.A.LOSER. and should have been gracious a long time ago, when it was apparent that she didn't have a chance in hell and conceded, so the Democrats could unite against McCain.

it may not be "over," but Hillary "Rocky Horror Show" Clinton will NOT be the nominee. Never in a thousand years, not in 2008, not in 2012, not in 2016, not in your dreams. She may not even retain her Senate seat after this--and it will serve that POS right.

[SwampG8r]

111. so her campaign is now "fear me lowly ones"?

good luck with that

[SwampG8r]

110. wow

as a floridian your concern is heartwarming
unrealistic and based on a fallacy
but heartwarming non the less

[JoFerret]

117. Are you talking about Canada?

That would be international joke right?

(I like Canada. Very much.)

[Ian David]

21. She's better than McCain. n/t

[salguine]

161. Maybe she should be his VP. She seems to admire him well enough.

[Ian David]

171. A week ago I would have said yes. But not now. n/t

[PurityOfEssence]

23. She's certainly lived up to her core claim more than he has

His schtick is that he represented togetherness and a "new" kind of positive politics. She claimed that she was well nigh indestructible.

Well, folks, flash forward: he's engaged in the worst bit of flagrant race-baiting and religion factionalism (South Carolina) in national politics in decades. He's been on every side of most issues and even stooped so low as to hammer her for a truly bad vote WHEN HE DIDN'T EVEN STAND UP TO BE COUNTED. (This is the Sense of the Senate vote on Iran, and yes, her vote was wrong.) This all smacks of weaselly evasiveness worthy of her at her worst. Why did he duck the vote? Sounds like plausible deniability to me, and with the numerous "present" votes, it's a complaint that many will have.

At least she and her supporters will somewhat admit to being a bit tainted and "political", whereas he and his people feign this saccharine moral superiority EVEN THOUGH THEY'VE BEHAVED WORSE.

She, on the other hand, TOOK THIRD PLACE in the first contest and is still standing. She didn't just win West Virginia, she took it by 41%. Even after Edwards' endorsement, she took Kentucky by 35%. These are important states in the general election; Mississippi and South Carolina aren't. She says she's tough, and she is. (Whether she'll actually ever stand up to the reactionaries as she promises is just as open to conjecture as his claims are, but who knows.)

America HATES a goody two-shoes; look how fast Elliot Spitzer crashed and burned. He's done, period.

They're both appeasing corporatists, and it's still just an issue for me and many others of who is the most electable. She's always had high negatives and many enemies, but he's catching up and the bully-boys of the right are waiting with a fusillade of abuse for him. I just hope that the shrillness gets tamped down if he gets the nomination; if not, we'll disgust more than we can handle.

(edited to decrappify some syntax)

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PurityOfEssence]

66. "If there are any good white people, I haven't met them"

Are you talking about THAT Sister Souljah?

The 40 Days of Faith tour was a simple attempt to cleave off a bloc of Clinton supporters when he discovered that he was down by 20 points in must-win South Carolina. The religion element was wrapped up with the cultural identity bit, and the homophobia was just an accident. He thought religion would be a free ride, but found that social groups are a package deal. Then, when he pulled a Hillary and tried to be on both sides of the issue by putting a gay preacher on the bill to balance McClurkin, he made good and sure that the homo-du-jour was white, even though at least two other prominent black preachers had offered their services.

[JoFerret]

136. The social conservative package

is a hard one to crack without betraying key principles.

[SwampG8r]

112. so how much is the good acid nowadays anyways?

[mdmc]

24. r

[KSinTX]

25. Love you passion and devotion

Mine is the same. Just for another candidate. No flame.

[JohnnyLib2]

30. Kudos.

"Do unto others...... " it just keeps coming to me. :thumbsup:

[KSinTX]

35. It comes and goes for me, but I really do try

When this campaign is all over, I'm checking myself into a rehab for the Politically Disordered to get my head back together! :hi: and :toast: on this lovely Memorial Day weekend!

[Yael]

26. She didn't choose to take this to every state.

That choice was made for her.

[Tarheel_Dem]

48. Exactly. Wasn't it she that said this would be wrapped up by Super Tues?

Where's the "democracy" in that?

[Yael]

51. Why yes. I do believe that she did.

[qijackie]

27. In total agreement!!!

[DeepBlueC]

31. k&r

[liberalcommontater]

32. I agree. If Obama can't survive Hillary staying in maybe the supers should consider switching to her

[tekisui]

38. Whoopty doopty.

She's great, right.

All Hail, Queen Hillary!

She has become an embarrassment, a joke and a caricature of a "great woman". She had exploited sexism for her own gain, and thank jebus she didn't get near the White House again.

[qijackie]

40. Your opinion is only that.

[tekisui]

41. The fact is she lost, with her name and money.

SHe had to fuck up big to lose. And she did.

[qijackie]

44. Again, your opinion. Certainly not mine.

[tekisui]

45. She lost, it's a fact,bub. Come to reality.

[qijackie]

47. Ah, but there are so many "realities". I prefer mine as you do yours.

[tekisui]

49. You are delusional if you think Hillary has a chance. Period.

I'd put money on it.

[qijackie]

50. We are all delusional! However, that aside, I did smile at "bub" .... long time no hear that.

[tekisui]

52. Long time no use.

Glad to give you a smile.
:-)

[qijackie]

57. You really did! My great-uncles used to call me that when I was a

wee'un. They were Norweigian farmers, worked hard, drank lots of gin, and chased lots of women. I was crazy about them. My very favorite, Uncle Fred, was a Communist who owned 1 suit - he started taking his little house apart one room at a time when he was 88 so as to leave as small a footprint as he could. They never reported themselves to the government when taxation began so they never did pay taxes.

[tekisui]

61. Great stuff.

My family comes down from Norweigians, too. Up in Minnesota. That's where I got it, my great Uncle Bud, hard living, hard drinking, tough sob. He busted a master lock with his hands one night. His girlfriend also set his house on fire, with him in it. When he was in his 80s he finally went to a doctor for stomach pain, they told him he had the worst liver they had ever seen. And they told him they didn't understand how he could stand the pain he must be in. It made him chuckle.

[qijackie]

63. North Dakota! My dad's grandfather's brothers....dad's uncles... I just

thought the sun rose and set with those guys. I expect they would have gotten on with your uncle real well! Of course, when an admired grown-up calls you "Thunder".... omg, I was in heaven. Trailing along after them to the fields and not telling when they hid the gin bottle somewhere where my mom couldn't find it (of course she usually found them all). Going to town on Saturday nights and running into the ditch on the way home so Sunday usually meant getting the tractor out and pulling the car out of the ditch. Hey.... we may disagree on the potential (yes, still potential) nominee, but we are more alike than not I bet'cha!

[tekisui]

65. .

:toast:

[emilyg]

77. I prefer yours, too.

And you didn't call anyone a "Bub".

[Democrat 4 Ever]

54. Then what are you afraid of?!? Let her do her thing,

Obama can do his. No one is stopping Obama from running his race, he is pulling away, clear skies and sunny days ahead for him.

But no one has listed one reason how she is hurting Obama by staying in. Why are you so afraid of Hillary? Other than you just "hate" this woman and she dared to challenge your candidate. If Obama (and his supporters)can't stand the heat than he needs to stay out of the kitchen. If anyone is pulling the party apart it is you guys.

I respect and admire Hillary Clinton. She has done a tremendous amount for this country. I think she would be the best person to run this nation for the next four years. Nothing I'VE SEEN inspires the kind of loyalty you guys show for Obama. So be it, you have your opinions just like I have mine. I will vote for the Democratic candidate come November but Obama supporters are really turning a lot of people off. You are making it harder and harder to forgive and forget how nasty you have been.

[newmajority]

39. Lobbyists are people too!

Lobbyists Are People Too -- Not!


The non-partisan Center for Responsive Politics has a new report raising questions about Hillary Clinton's practice of accepting federal lobbyist donations -- and her defense for doing so.

"A lot of those lobbyists, whether you like it or not, represent real Americans," she said in early August at the YearlyKos convention in Chicago when asked why she wasn't joining Obama and Edwards in spurning federal lobbyists. "They represent nurses, social workers, and yes, they represent corporations and they employ a lot of people."

The center analyzed Clinton's lobbyist cash and found that -- surprise -- she had raised far, far less from night-shift nurses than from, say, titanic multinational drug companies.

"In total, 353 federally registered lobbyists (including those working at lobbying firms or in-house for corporations, unions and associations) contributed at least $787,300 to Clinton's presidential campaign in the first nine months of this year, more than they gave to any other candidate, in either party. Lobbyists who represent health professionals, including the nurses Clinton singled out, account for $82,805 in contributions to her, while those representing the pharmaceutical industry paid out $562,900."

--Glenn Thrush

http://weblogs.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/politics/blog/2007/11/lobbyists_are_people_too_not.html

[mountainvue]

86. Your candidate has a shitload of lobbyists

"volunteering" for him.

[stahbrett]

42. What about when Hillary said the whole thing would be over by February 5th?

She really thought she'd have the nomination wrapped up by then - so her intention was to make every subsequent contest meaningless.

She also said that she realized that Michigan and Florida's elections wouldn't count for anything.

She also said that the number to reach is 2,025.

[PurityOfEssence]

74. She was wrong. It's a quaint concept that Obama supporters should learn: one can be wrong.

No big deal.

[Jersey Devil]

53. So it's Hillary the --- "victim" on Mon, Wed, Fri, & Hillary the "fighter" Tues, Thur, Sat & Sun

OK, got it.

[Heather MC]

56. I am impress you consider that people in Iowa Voted, considering it's a caucus state

Can you pass that face on to Hillary so she will shut up about getting the most votes, considering she doesn't count caucus states in that idiotic statement

"to all who have voted since Iowa"

[Bread and Circus]

58. A thread for the Clinton apologists!

It's about time!!!

Now where is my Clinton icon?

I must have left it in Bosnia, last June, under sniper fire, while an assassination was occuring...

[MadBadger]

59. What about Idaho?

[JoFerret]

119. How many electoral college votes

will Idaho bring the dem candidate in November?

[MadBadger]

130. Better chance of winning Idaho than we do of Winning Puerto Rico,dont you think?

[JeffR]

60. A K & R for this.

Honest opinion put forward directly is what GDP should be about. It's an election, for God's sake. I'm glad you called this unapologetic. There'd have been no need to apologize for a post like this.

BTW, I get told (ad nauseam) I'm an Obamabot and a Hill-hater...:eyes:

[ProSense]

62. In other words, Hillary is great. So what if she mentioned assassination, and

then became defiant when criticized:

Having made a gaffe -- not in her heart, but in her verbal formulation -- she embeds a political calculation in the way she frames and phrases her apology, avoiding the guy whose life might be put at risk. And then she uses it in the rest of the piece to turn her own mistake into an advertisement:

I'm historic! I'm a great leader! I wasn't brought up to be a quitter!

Anything but a straightforward, simple apology.

link

[RiverStone]

64. Good your dedicated to your candidate

Hope you will join us and put the next Democratic president in office this fall.

[Edgewater_Joe]

67. Uapologetic Here's-An-Amoral-Hillbot Condemnation Response

Shame on you, amoral Hillbot.

She has no soul or humanity, and strings like this make it look like you don't, either.

[Skip Intro]

70. Listen to yourself. She has no soul? No humanity? Really, look at your words.

wtf?

[Edgewater_Joe]

137. You Still Defend Hillary After This Weekend?

You have no soul.

She's proven she hasn't.

Wake up, Hillbot.

[Skip Intro]

150. Oh, now I have no soul?

You know, you can keep that glass of hope and change, I'll pass.

[emilyg]

80. I know decent people in Chicago

what happened to you?

[Edgewater_Joe]

138. You're Still Defending Hillary, Too?

I'm outraged and sickened by you both -- that makes me more of a person than you and your so-called candidate is.

If you were a decent person you'd reject Hillary by now, too.

Have you?

Are you????

[ima_sinnic]

68. just like the GWB worshippers, who admire "stay the course"

who think there is something admirable about pig-headed, foolish stubborness and refusal to see reality. who think incompetence and conniving and scheming are somehow becoming and admirable.

blech.

[Skip Intro]

69. Well, there ya go. Call me and others of like mind repukes. Step one, is it?

I am curious, tho. What step is it to call the other racist? I'm thinking step three or four.

Close? C'mon, tell me. I wanna know.

[cyndensco]

167. You're exactly right. She is "staying the course..."

:eyes:

[kwenu]

71. I don't agree that it is in our best interests but it is her right.

[yewberry]

72. I wish everyone would support their candidate as positively

as you try to do here.

We may not all be on the same page, but we're all on the same team.

There are nasty, vicious attacks from many both sides, and there's no reason to make that the level of dialogue that we share. I admire Clinton's ability to fight hard against the rampant sexism in the media. I also admire Obama's steadfastness against attacks from some.

Be proud of your candidate--we should all do the same.

[emilyg]

82. Nice post. Thank you.

[patrice]

73. Not apologetic for being ungrateful that she used the IWR as a resume builder.nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

76. And I think you are out of your ever lovin mind

[CreekDog]

78. i appreciate that your post is about Hillary and not Obama

that's something, right? :hi:

[Neshanic]

83. Great post.

[grantcart]

84. I have a different take than many of the Obama supporters here

I think one of the worst things that Hillary has done is to continually put her supporters - most of whom are outstanding people who we would love to go to a baseball game and share a beer with as opposed to the conservative leeches who want to drain the country dry for their own personal interests.

Its her supporters who end up having to make an intelligent explanation about the IWR or obliterating Iran.

She is the one that has come out Macho and fabricates runs on the tarmac and 'hard working white people' - but its her loyal supporters who end up carrying the bag.

I think its particularly offensive that they continue to misrepresent the campaigns financial position so that her supporters continue to send money when they might have done differently had they known that the donations had fallen off and personal loans were floating their campaign.

I absolutely salute your loyalty and the fact that you have said nothing offensive about Obama.

I just wish your candidate had as much class as most of her supporters and that she hadn't put them in a terrible spot by being obsessed at advancing her interests above the party and the country.

Now when Senator Obama reaches the majority of delegates (with less than 50 he could get it with add ons, his share from the three primaries, Edwards delegates and the Pelosi club - without taking another Super Delegate) and if repeat if Senator Clinton decides to go all the way to the convention in a futile attempt to force her way on the ticket as Vice President - what will you think of her then?

[SwampG8r]

114. grant cart

i was reading these and snarking some as i went
but thinking this exact thing
thank you for putting what to me is the most salient point into words
i too feel sorry for the ones who feel duty bound to defend her as she pinballs from gaffe to gaffe
she knows they are here and she feeds them points
and then the points become issues
at some point they must feel besieged
but it does NOT excuse her actions of late

were a rational person supporting her
the correct thing to do would be,
once you realize what a fish shes played you for
dont rise to further bait

instead they line up to excuse her excesses
personal responsibility is missing i think

[Stephanie]

85. If only she could manage a budget.

And a staff, and a campaign. Her effort this time around has been abysmal.

[Ken Burch]

87. If HRC had swept Super Tuesday, would you STILL have said the race should drag on to the end?

The problem is, she's hurt the party by attacking Obama when's it's been clear since March he'd be our nominee.

No one would've objected if she'd stayed in and run a positive, progressive and anti-bigotry campaign. No one would've objected if she'd done what she was supposed to and ONLY attacked McCain.

You can't be a real Dem and encourage white voters to hate and fear the idea of a black president. You can't even claim to be against racism if you do that.

[democracy1st]

104. all that truth you're speaking will be ignored

[Zachstar]

89. You know you have a forum for this right?

[mcctatas]

90. I agree with many of those...

guess you'll have to go flame yourself;)

[SaveOurDemocracy]

97. Right there with ya... k&r

To you... :toast:

[blonndee]

98. -1

[CreekDog]

99. You're right, she never apologizes

:think: :eyes:

[intaglio]

100. Have you actually, ever, listened to yourself?

Your words

I think the fact that she is taking this to every voting state and territory is tremendous.

I think the fact that she is saying to all who have voted since Iowa, when I first started seeing calls for her to drop out, your voice will count is effin great, for democracy and the party.

Compare and contrast with reality

Firstly

CBS’s Early Show Monday, Clinton said that her campaign will keep going “until the end of the process on February 5th,”

and secondly the infamous

"I'm in it for the long run. It's not a very long run; it'll be over by February the 5th"

Then there is your

I think the fact that she continues in the face of the most vicious treatment I have ever seen, from the media and many Obama supporters is beyond admirable.

By this measure the media was playing pattycake with Bill during the Lewinski scandal and Kerry was treated with kid gloves - get out of here

Finally we come to your three professions of faith - or should we say catechism?

I know this woman is a fighter.

Agreed, a dirty, roll in the dirt, bring down the party rather than admit you failed fighter

I know she cares about the people of this country.

Is that everybody? or just "...worki... hard working Americans, white Americans"

I know she would make one hell of a president.

If she stood any chance against the Goopers, I would agree - but I don't think anyone would like the hell she would make of the USA given the complete mess she has made of her campaign.

[smalll]

101. She'll fight, fight and fight again to save the Party we love!

No more McGoverns!

[intaglio]

102. Don't you mean Mondales?

Check your caucus history - or don't they do history at your home school?

I know, uncalled for, but I am getting sick of this sort of nonsense.

She ran a bad campaign
she did not manage her money
she did not manage her functionaries
she did not care about the caucuses
she underestimated her opponents
she lost credibility
she was caught in a simple lie - repeatedly

Which part of "she lost" don't you get?

[Gore1FL]

103. I can't wait until she starts to fight for the Dem nominee

When will that start?

[intaglio]

120. I was going to say don't be nasty

Then I thought -






NAH

[VotesForWomen]

106. unlike O-ists, Hillary doesn't think quitting is a democratic value. nt

[SwampG8r]

109. i would agree if

everything listed wasnt to her benefit
she has no interest in counting votes that are not for her

[Mobius]

113. LOL

n/t

[cboy4]

118. I can't wait until the next primary in June. I've lost track of the

number of large states Hillary has won.

It's very impressive indeed.

[intaglio]

121. You've lost count

She has won 18 contests

Obama has won 33

Live with it

[cboy4]

123. I wonder when all is said and done, Hillary will have won

the popular vote?

You live with that intaglio. lol

[intaglio]

124. Any Calculation? or just an assertion?

Anyway it was your reference to States.

Ah yes Popular vote

Include MI and FL and ignore caucus States. Trouble is - Caucus states count - something Hillary and Bill forgot and Mark Penn never knew.

[Blondbostonian]

183. Here's an update- It's not a contest for the popular vote

The Obama camapign would have spent more time and resources in differennt states if this was a popular vote contest (Like Illinois, VA and Wisconsin).

Instead, they played by the rules (what a concept) and ran a better campaign.

WE won. You lost. I have a family member on the advanced team for the campaign so I get to use "We".

[indimuse]

122. SYATC!

K&R!

[Perry Logan]

125. Nothing recommends Hillary more than the utter fecklessness of her detractors.

[ccharles000]

126. I adore Hillary.

[DemExpat]

128. WONDERFUL post, Skip.

I share your sentiments and deep respect for her.

:kick:

DemEx

[sellitman]

129. Your loyalty is admirable.

I think though that it is misplaced at this point in time.

Any reasonable person understands Obama has won this race.

I think your loyalty now has to start being spent on defeating McSame and defending the Democrats in their very important Senate & House Races.

If being a fighter is a trait you admire in your candidate, then being a smart fighter should dwarf your personal choices.

[Dinger]

131. Same Here

:)

[Butch350]

132. Unapologetic Pro-Hillary thread.

YAWN :0)

[papapi]

133. Just like Hillary. No apologies. Geez!

[still_one]

134. She cared for the country when she voted for the IWR and the Kyle/Lieberman ammendment

She cared for the country when she elevated she and mccain by saying they were qualified to be president, but Obama was just a speech

She cared for the country when she tried to divide her campaign on race

She is only out for Clinton. She is on a suicide mission which will destroy the party and the country with our loss in November

The Clinton's have left a lasting legacy that will truely be remembered

[rucky]

139. If "taking this to every voting state and territory" is her reason for staying in...

then I'm okay with that.

[aka-chmeee]

140. No flame

Just the observation that after reading the responses to your post, It occurs to me that Obama supporters seem to be so sure that their man cannot win in the general, that they are trying to provide themselves with an excuse for losing before the contest even happens.

[rucky]

141. Funny, because I see Hillary's staying in as the same sort of hedge.

"I told you he'd lose"

Obama is the nominee. What are you doing to help Dems win in November?

Obama is being attacked by McCain and by Dems. Obama supporters are confident that - with the support of the party - we can win. Every day we don't put up a unified front, the "Obama can't win" meme that's kept Hillary in the race for this long becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Hillary has every right to campagin, but it is strategically bad for the big picture, given the reality of the race right now. It's no wonder people see that as a threat.

[Freida5]

144. good post- DU is no long a "democratic" site. It is all undemocratically Obama

[grantcart]

149. really? then how did this post get posted?

[Lost-in-FL]

152. and recommended. n/t

[musicblind]

145. K&R

Beautiful POSITIVE post. refreshing to see here :)

[cbayer]

146. Really nice positive post. thanks! nt.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

147. TRUE THAT!

[The Doctor.]

148. Well, tenacity aside....

She expected it to be over after February 5, she agreed not to count Florida and Michigan...

Seems just your first 'point' is fallacious.

[TexanIndian]

151. K&R

I guess I am among the minority in this board that is baffled by how handily she beats McBush when Saint O has a hard time putting a fight, and yet her own party is doing much of the back stabbing.

Let it sink (only this time the ship that is sinking is that of Saint O).

[Gman]

153. Hillary is our only chance for victory in November

She is tremendously more qualified than a rookie, 2 year Senator who's spent the last 4 years running for president. Obama will lose 40 states in November and there will be great wailing and gnashing of teeth at DU.

[JoFerret]

163. It's a theory, a possibility

We can hope not of course.

[curiousdemo]

154. bla..bla..bla...

enough said....:puke:

[salguine]

157. This whole posting is based on a flawed premise.

It supposes that Clinton is doing all this because of her deep and abiding love of country, democracy, and Party. Nothing could be more ridiculous or farther from the truth. She's doing all of this for one person and one person only, and that's herself.

Nobody ever said the voices of those who voted since Iowa didn't count; they've all counted. It's just that more of those voices happened to count for Obama. And for any Clinton supporter to accuse anyone else of viciousness, after the way she's behaved, is staggering.

She cares for nothing but herself and her own selfish ambition. Her whole life has been focused on nothing but the Presidency since she was at Wellesley—possibly even before that—and now that she sees it slipping away, she's turned unspeakably mean and vindictive. Except when she wins an occasional primary and she momentarily becomes so irrationally giddy that it's actually kind of unsettling.

She'd make a shitty President, because she doesn't know what she wants it for; she just wants it. And she's so steeped to the eyeballs in the same dirty special interest money as every other shitty career politician in Washington that nothing—NOTHING—would change if she were to ever become President.

Hopefully, for the good of the country and the Party, she'll not only lose the nomination, but her Senate seat, and she and Bill will just go the hell away.

[EstimatedProphet]

160. How do you know?

[EstimatedProphet]

162. But Clinton is EEEEVUL!

Hillary has publibally called for Obama to be assassinated! She has campaigned in a KKK hood and mask! She has come out and stated that she lives only for the destruction of the Democratic party and the imprisonment and execution of all liberals!

Or so you hear on DU anyway...

[mcg]

165. I'm for Hillary as part of Obama's team,

she might not get picked as VP, but I'll bet he will want her
as part of the team. I get that from reading this...

Obama Hints at Naming Clinton to His 'Team of Rivals'
http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/05/22/Obama-Hints-at-Naming-Clinton-to-his-_2700_Team-of-Rivals_2700_.aspx?print=true

Obama sound's like a team player, quite unlike Bush.

I don't think the VP slot would be the best one for Clinton at this point.
I won't be another Cheney-type Vice Presidency anyway.

I voted for Edwards in the primary as much as a could,
and split the difference between Clinton and Obama.
I've gotten over Edwards dropping out. I'm supporting Obama now, but
my main concern is getting a Democrat in the White House and defeating Mc*.

[angrypoet]

169. Honest Opinion

I have been a member of DU for a while now and I have been an observer for several years. I have never replied to any of this back and forth about BO and HC as I have been content to observe and be amazed at the visceral hate and discontent between the two camps. That is no line, you are free to look at all of the handful of times I have posted on DU. My first voting experience was in 1992 for BC and I am very proud of that vote. I have voted in EVERY local, state and national election since, no matter where I lived, as a democrat and I am proud of that. I am a very logical and thoughtful person as anyone that knows me will attest to that fact. I can be very cold and factual, to the determent of others feelings sometimes. I believe the RNC party planks and the massive and insane influence of the religious conservatives on the RNC is harmful to the life, liberty and happiness of the majority of Americans and find the DNC and progressives, like those on this site, to be better suited to the ideals and vision of our Founding Fathers. I want everyone to remember the great harm that has been put on our country over the last several years, from both inside and out. At this current moment we are being our own worst enemy. We are attacking each other with all the passion and emotion that a campaign can generate. We have stopped looking at this logically and with dispassionate distance.
I admire HC supporters and their pride and loyalty. God bless the DNC and progressives alike that we have such amazing loyalty and honest love for their candidate. I am making great pains to be kind and loving toward you but I also feel it important to be honest.
Look back at how democracy works in our country. Look back at the history of how primaries have worked. Ask yourself why do others suspend their campaigns? Why do others concede and endorse others? It is not to the determent of democracy, its to the benefit of it. Can HC stay in to the very last moment? Yes. Is their historical precedence for it? Yes. Has it ever been to the benefit of the party in that election year? No. If we are honest with ourselves, by every reasonable measurement, is BO a viable candidate for our party? Yes. Has his campaign, by every reasonable measurement, met the conditions to be our candidate? Yes (the final 2025 is a foregone conclusion). Why does it matter if HC stays in the race. Only perception and perception can be everything. We have our own value system, being democrats, we are supposed to be the "good guys". We put a higher standard on honesty, integrity and party politics aside, what is best for people, all people, in general. I will take ANY honest feedback, I want to address the core issues, one by one, with anyone, as to why this is best for the party and the country, for their to be only one candidate for the democratic party, sooner rather than later. I honestly respect and admire all of you for your passion and drive but DU members need to stop the name calling and attacks on both sides. All of you have your own spheres of control in your own world outside of DU. You are taking what you are saying out there and it is not to the benefit of your party or your candidate.
Work hard for your party and our chances to have a Dem President and a super majority in the House and Senate. That should be your focus. That is how you make your country better.

[Mike L]

172. Clinton can win the GE. Obama can't.

Clinton up 8 points over McCain in Ohio.

[OzarkDem]

174. Obama supporters would rather lose the GE to McCain

than admit that Obama lost to a woman in the primary.

[mitchum]

176. That 's fine with me; you don't have to apologize to be an apologist

carry on

[SurfingAtWork]

178. Thank you for doing a pro Hillary thread, rather than an anti Obama one.

[palindrome]

179. kick

[Tommy_Carcetti]

180. Even if she is acting out of self-interest in terms of Florida and Michigan, she's still right.

A person may be right for the wrong reasons, but in the end that person is still right.

And as a Floridian you have no idea how much I appreciate her position on my state and my state's delegate situation.

I voted for Edwards in the primary. I also think Obama is almost certainly going to be the nominee and assuming my vote gets counted by the DNC, he will have my full support in the general.

But I do appreciate Senator Clinton pressing the issue of getting my vote counted, and for that, she will forever have my respect.

I also think it is actually a good thing (despite the associated ugliness in this forum) that Senator Clinton will be participating in all the primaries to the very end. At least voters in the very last states and territories can say they voted in a primary between two actively campaigning candidates. It adds more legitimacy to the process.

[palindrome]

185. go hill

[palindrome]

181. kick!

http://guerillawomentn.blogspot.com/

[hendo]

182. There is nothing wrong

with her running in every state
or staying in the race
or being a "fighter"

The problem comes when she takes a negative tone in the process.

[palindrome]

184. instead of just hypocritically letting your campaign do it?

[hendo]

190. She took a lot of the initiative on herself n/t

[Sundoggy]

187. I totally supported Hillary!

For years. I just don't any more.

[CaptJasHook]

189. I agree with all but number 3

If you think this is vicious then you are new to politics. And her campaign has been just as vicious.

BTW, I like her stance now. But let us not forget her off-handed remarks about the meaninglessness of small states, caucus states, activists, Obama, and other fellow Democrats. We should all matter all of the time, whether she was winning or not.

And yes, she would make one Hell of a president.

[kwassa]

191. I still support her.

[Beacool]

192. Great post!!

Thanks!!!!!!

:bounce:

[Lilith Velkor]

193. Fuckin' A.

:headbang:

[nvme]

194. I voted in the Florida Primary.

I Knew I had been screwed by my legislature. I alternated my support between Gore and Obama. I am pro-peace and have been so troubled by the Iraq occupation. IWR is what has prevented me from supporting Clinton. I have been to 2 Peace rally's in washington (great city)DC. Too many are dead as a result of Congress Abdicating its power to A chimpanzee. How many swimming pools could we have filled with the blood of those who have needless died in this fiasco. Kyle-Lieberman is another step the wrong(right)direction.
You clinton's supporter have geat passion. I hope that the negativity subsides between our respective camps.