Two wolves.

[scarletwoman]

Two Wolves

An old Indian Grandfather said to his grandson who came to him with anger at a friend who had done him an injustice.

"Let me tell you a story. I too, at times, have felt a great hate for those that have taken so much, with no sorrow for what they do. But hate wears you down, and does not hurt your enemy. It is like taking poison and wishing your enemy would die. I have struggled with these feelings many times."

He continued...

"It is as if there are two wolves inside me; One is good and does no harm. He lives in harmony with all around him and does not take offense when no offense was intended. He will only fight when it is right to do so, and in the right way. He saves all his energy for the right fight.

But the other wolf, ahhh!

He is full of anger. The littlest thing will set him into a fit of temper. He fights everyone, all the time, for no reason. He cannot think because his anger and hate are so great. It is helpless anger, for his anger will change nothing. Sometimes it is hard to live with these two wolves inside me, for both of them try to dominate my spirit."

The boy looked intently into his Grandfather's eyes and asked...

"Which one wins, Grandfather?"

The Grandfather smiled and quietly said...

"The one I feed."

sw

[Poll_Blind]

1. I use this with kids alot. I'd use it with adults, but by then it's too late.

  It really does show how we live the lives we make, based on our choices.

Thanks,

PB

[scarletwoman]

3. I have to disagree, it's never too late. I'm not willing to give up on any human being without

at least attempting to communicate.

sw

[sandnsea]

8. Well you just fed the wolf that hates

so I guess you haven't learned as much as you thought you did.

And don't even bother to tell me everything that's wrong with me, I already know and never pretend otherwise.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. My dear scarletwoman!

Wow, what a great story!

I really like the lesson here...

The one I feed.

K&R

:patriot:

[scarletwoman]

4. Thank you! I was really hoping someone might find it useful.

:hug:

sw

[lordsummerisle]

5. Great Parable, Thanks! n/t

[scarletwoman]

7. Thank YOU! I'm glad you liked it! (nt)

[ruby slippers]

6. thanks. right now I'm feeding anger so maybe I should conserve some

for the right fight.

[scarletwoman]

9. Any martial arts master will tell you that you are stronger and more effective if you are NOT

striking out in anger.

For our own sakes, we need to center ourselves in the change we want to see in the world, not in our emotionally reactionary lizard brains.

sw

[ruby slippers]

12. what does the master say about frustration, because that is what is

feeding my anger. I am just so angry that you Dems are letting this one slip away to those "reptilian" lizard Republicans again....

[scarletwoman]

16. The master says, "center yourself, breathe deeply into your chi."

It is only your ego that feels anger and frustration. Let go of that and consider the true goal. Ends can never justify the means. Suit your means to the end you seek.

sw

[ruby slippers]

19. hah, my ego only sees the photo of me and Barack becoming a

laughing stock but my CHI (whatever that is) says that I better start stocking up on survival items because my peace will be deeply distrubed with another Republican victory when the rest of my Constitutional rights get zapped....

[ruby slippers]

21. BTW, I am an "existentialist" and also a Number 1 on the Format Wheel so

what does the Master recommend for me now?

[scarletwoman]

23. Oh dear. I have no idea what the Format Wheel is, so I can't possibly give you

a sensible answer.

I'm just an old hippie Buddhist/Taoist.

Peace,
sw

[ruby slippers]

27. sorry, actually it is 4Mat (not Format) but here you go....

I posted the number 1, which is me...Tje 1's ask the question WHY.....

Type 1: Innovative Learners are primarily interested in personal meaning. They need to have reasons for learning--ideally, reasons that connect new information with personal experience and establish that information's usefulness in daily life. Some of the many instructional modes effective with this learner type are cooperative learning, brainstorming, and integration of content areas (e.g., science with social studies, writing with the arts, etc.).

You can find more about 2's, 3's and 4's here....


http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/msh/llc/is/4mat.html

This is used in teaching, of which I used to be one....

[ekwhite]

48. Interesting Concept

I would primarily be a type 2 Analytic Learner, with a good dose of type 4 thrown in. It works with my job. I do a lot of research, put together papers and presentations, and love to learn on my own.

[scarletwoman]

22. "Chi" is your life force. And you have hit upon a very pertinent point -- we DO need

to prepare ourselves for difficult times ahead. There's really going to be no avoiding it.

sw

[ruby slippers]

25. figures...see, my CHI, Life force, knows that my life is going to get

tested....

[scarletwoman]

28. To be alive is to be tested, isn't it? At least, I've never known anyone who didn't have

some kind of shit or another to deal with. Human condition and all that.

I wish you all the best in whatever test you're facing.

:hug:
sw

[ruby slippers]

31. thanks. I know what happened to me election day of 2004 and, well

let's just say it is a good thing a lot of people cared for me.....I'm alive today. My life force can't take defeat too well, especially when my Ego works so hard....

Thanks for the hug, though. This time, I'm prepared...

But, my 4Mat is still asking "Why?"...Kinda like Nancy Kerrigan....*smile*

[scarletwoman]

34. "My life force can't take defeat too well" As long as you're alive, your life force has obviously

not been "defeated", right?

The only answer to "why" lies in examining what we are able to learn out of "what".

sw

[ruby slippers]

37. well, actually my life force was helped with...

some Wellbutrin and a good psychiatrist.....

[scarletwoman]

41. My life force is helped by a little pot now and then.

:D

[ruby slippers]

43. oh, my, never done that.....but I am not here to judge you...what

does the master say about your choice?

[ruby slippers]

45. and...which wolf are you feeding with that?

[SwampG8r]

109. the peace wolf maam

i never saw 2 people smoke pot then get up and fight
i have however seen this with beer

[scarletwoman]

111. I love your post! Thank you!

:smoke:

sw

[scarletwoman]

46. Well, since I have no "master", it's only me and the choices I make for myself.

Myself is quite happy to smoke a little pot now and then, and credits it with preserving what little sanity I may have.

:D
sw

[ekwhite]

47. Those help quite well

A good psychiatrist and Effexor for me. For some reading, try The Miracle of Mindfulness, by Thich Nhat Hanh, or Loving Kindness, by Sharon Salzberg. Those may help. I need to work on my loving kindness meditation, especially, after so many months on GD:P. I am feeding the bad wolf too much.

[scarletwoman]

49. That's why I posted my OP -- I've noticed so many people feeding their angry wolves.

I'm pretty slipshod about my Buddhism, but I do try to remember that if I'm not treating my fellow sentient beings with compassion and loving kindness, I'm not really holding up my end of the deal.

sw

[ruby slippers]

52. where does humor and making one laugh come into all of this...cause

that is me. Is it me trying to heal my sadness or is it that I am really concerned about compassion and kindness to others.

BTW, I just offerred to donate a star to someone and no one is grabbing. How does one give kindness if it is rejected? What does my Ego and Chi say about that?

[scarletwoman]

54. All I know is that one ought to act with compassion & loving kindness, without concern for what one

gets back.

(edited for misspelling)

[ruby slippers]

57. it came back....the person who needed the star most turned out

to be someone who works with kids and since I taught for years she got it and the feeling in my chi was intense....I was just impatient.

And, since it came from Dubya's economic stimulus check...I'll bet his Chi is scratching inside him, too....ha ha ha ha ha ha

Turning in for the night....nice chatting.

[scarletwoman]

58. Sweet dreams! (nt)

[SwampG8r]

112. maybe this will help you focus

It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth:
But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it.

im repeating this back to you because i think you need it this time

[ruby slippers]

166. thanks, swampy, you are correct on that one.....the mustard seed grows...

[SwampG8r]

170. yeah

someone on here was telling me that one day
it bears repeating tho

[babydollhead]

151. One breath, in. All the way you fee like it. Now out. repeat

that's what it boils down to. This minute. and here we are in it together.

[ruby slippers]

40. these are the "what" learners...the type 2's.....and actually, you

are right as your story you posted makes me listen to what experts like you have to say....

Type 2: Analytic Learners are primarily interested in acquiring facts in order to deepen their understanding of concepts and processes. They are capable of learning effectively from lectures, and enjoy independent research, analysis of data, and hearing what "the experts" have to say.

1's ask why...2's ask "what"...3's ask "how" and 4's (the risk takers) ask "what if"....

BTW, 1's and 3's don't get along nor do 2's and 4's....They are opposites.

My sister is a 3 and we bicker all the time....she is a Conservative and I lean left.

[JMDEM]

123. In South America they have double chi...

Also known as "Chi Chi".

[scarletwoman]

126. ...

:P

[SwampG8r]

106. that pic will never be a laughing stock

itwill however become a treasured family heirloom
almost over now and mccain will not win

[Uncle Joe]

125. Just remember three things.

1. There is no place like home. (Dorothy)

2. Home is where the heart is. (Anonymous)

3. Anger hardens the heart and a cold hard heart makes for a chilly a home. (Uncle Joe)

Now take this pebble from my hand.

[Auntie Bush]

13. Thanks...I heard this once and completely forgot it. Thanks for thr reminder

There are a large majority of lizard brains around here!.

[scarletwoman]

20. You're so welcome! I'm definitely tired of lizard brains. (nt)

[americanstranger]

33. There's a presidential candidate who follows that tenet.

And yes, he is much stronger because he does not react in anger.

Thanks for the OP.

- as

[scarletwoman]

35. Thank you. I'm glad you understand.

No surprise, of course. :loveya:

sw

[americanstranger]

44. I try.

My father, when he was young, spent a few years living with the Lakota Sioux. It resulted in my father being the most even-keeled person I've ever known. He always tried to impress upon me that anger is a waste of energy and distorts how you think.

He was so much better at it than I am. But like I said, I keep trying.

Thank you, sw. :hug:

- as

[ekwhite]

50. He does have a certain Zen-like calm doesn't he?

It's that verbal Judo of his that makes him such a good candidate. He doesn't seem to do anything in anger. I envy that trait of his. I possess a certain redneck temper (or more precisely, it possesses me).

[americanstranger]

59. That's why I don't get the 'weak campaigner' label.

He seems to know how to time his responses for max efficiency - and by letting issues hang out there and get 'digested' by the media and public, he always seems to be in a position to give a response that actually strengthens his point.

I gotta say, in over 30 years of candidate-watching, I've never seen anything like it.

- as

[scarletwoman]

60. "The Force is strong with this one." I've been impressed with Obama's jiu jistsu abilities.

He's nimble, he's smart, and he's not ruled by emotion. He's playing at a very advanced level, imho.

sw

[NashVegas]

91. He Does, Unless You Ask Him More Than 7 Questions

On a subject he doesn't like. Or write something about him he doesn't like:

It's not quite eight in the morning and Barack Obama is on the phone screaming at me. He liked the story I wrote about him a couple weeks ago, but not this garbage.

Months earlier, a reporter friend told me she overheard Obama call me an asshole at a political fund-raiser. Now here he is blasting me from hundreds of miles away for a story that just went online but hasn't yet hit local newsstands.

It's the first time I ever heard him yell, and I'm trembling as I set down the phone. I sit frozen at my desk for several minutes, stunned. ...

In a follow-up report published a couple weeks later, I wrote about these disgruntled black legislators and the central role Senate President Emil Jones played in Obama's revived political life.

The morning after the story was posted online, I arrived early at my new offices. I hadn't taken my coat off when the phone rang. It was Obama.
http://www.houston-press.com/2008-02-28/news/barack-obama-screamed-at-me/5

[scarletwoman]

99. Did you really have to bring your angry wolf into a thread about not feeding angry wolves?

Couldn't you have least thought about the message for just a bit and refrained?

I'm asking for peace and healing. Everyone has heard every argument over and over again. Enough.

Peace,
sw

[NashVegas]

102. Can't Help It. I'm a Bad HC Voter

And it looks like part of the message got turned into being about how a certain candidate keeps his anger under control.

By letting it turn political, especially in joining in, you have no right to expect that assertion to remain free of challenge, IMO. It's not like this is in the Barack Obama supporters group.

[scarletwoman]

104. Huh? I'm sorry, you're not making any sense to me. My OP is a call for people to stop

blasting away at each other, nothing more. It is completely non-partisan.

Peace,
sw

[NashVegas]

108. Except The Part

That begins around post #33.

[scarletwoman]

114. What is it that you object to? People saying that they like Obama?

There is not one angry word in any of those posts. There is not one slam against anyone else in any of those posts. They are the sort of positive pro-candidate posts that it would be nice to see from everybody.

If you want to add a postive, pro-Clinton post to this thread I'll be happy to have it. And I'll make a positive reply to it as well.

Again, my OP is for everybody, no matter which candidate they support. Everyone has been feeding their angry wolves, this is just my humble attempt to avert some bloodshed.

Peace,
sw

[grantcart]

152. This guy has been thoroughly debunked and that is why this story has never been

picked up by a real newspaper.

if you google around you will find that this guy is a writer for a weekly advertiser and usually rights about things like the local farmer's market.

He has no experience and no published history as a political reporter. Kind of like Taylor Marsh

Howver since I have you here Crisco there is a question I ask you but you keep missing.

What does it say about a candidate when they come in second in their own home state?

Why does Obama have a larger margin of victory in the State of NY?

Whe does Hillary's support keep going down the more she campaigns?

[scarletwoman]

155. I'm sorry, but this is not the room for an argument.

You want room 12A next door.



:D
Peace,
sw

[grantcart]

162. I respond to your two wolves with the parable of the two pandas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzRH3iTQPrk

[scarletwoman]

163. Alas, dear grantcart, my Flinstones computer cannot do youtube.

It would probably take me at least 3 hours to download it. :(

It's the thought that counts, in any case.

:hug:
sw

[ruby slippers]

167. scarlet, it is just a cute little ditty showing a Mama panda and

her tiny offspring. Mama is eating and suddenly sneezes. Not sure if it means anything in response to your post, just a cute little youtube response. Having said that, you didn't miss anything pertinent....

Glad I could help as the poster didn't reply to you.

[JeffR]

10. Perfect

and posted in the appropriate forum. I hope everyone reads this and keeps it in mind before hitting the "Post message" button.

[scarletwoman]

11. Thank you. I really do appreciate your support.

:*

sw

[musicblind]

14. lol I wrote a song about this saying

entitled appropriately enough "The Story of The Two Wolves" hahaha love it.

[scarletwoman]

17. Wonderful! I was hoping there were other people familiar with this story! (nt)

[glitch]

153. I have heard this story before.. and I think it was from you several years ago!

This is the kind of post that should be repeated daily, this old Buddhist/Taoist hippie-wannabe would sure benefit from a continuous reminder :hug:

[Madam Mossfern]

15. Great tale-k&r

Something to remember every moment. I had a Cherokee teacher who told us stories like this. I will keep this one in mind. Thank you for a post that is most necessary.

[scarletwoman]

18. I'm so glad you appreciated it! Thank you! (nt)

[scarletwoman]

24. I'm kicking this up. I'm trying to feed the good wolf. (nt)

[pansypoo53219]

26. once in the while

somehow the hate wolf gets a cracker. usually when i hear georgee's voice.

[scarletwoman]

30. I don't know anyone who can completely resist giving their "hate wolf" a cracker, including me.

But I think it's a good idea to at least be aware of it when we are doing it.

sw

[Major Hogwash]

29. Two kitty cats.

One that sheds and coughs up hairballs all the time - that one is mine.
The other is a shorthair that hardly ever sheds and doesn't even have a hack or ever sneezes at all - that one belongs to the kids.

I didn't get to pick the cat I wanted . . obviously.

[scarletwoman]

32. Er, I'm not getting your meaning, sorry. (nt)

[Pisces]

36. Great parable!

[scarletwoman]

38. Thank you! I'm so glad you found it so. (nt)

[ekwhite]

39. Thanks for a great story

Thanks for the prayer wheel too.

[scarletwoman]

42. You're welcome. I just want to do what I can. (nt)

[alphafemale]

51. kick

[scarletwoman]

55. Thank you.

[bhikkhu]

53. Copied and saved, and I will tell it to my kids tomorrow night.

Thanks!

[scarletwoman]

56. You're so welcome! It's a wonderful lesson to give our children. (nt)

[Kaleko]

61. Lovely post. Reminds me of this quote

from Eckhart Tolle's A NEW EARTH

page 294

Not what you do, but how you do what you do determines whether you are fulfilling your destiny. And how you do what you do is determined by your state of consciousness.


page 295

The modalities of awakened doing are acceptance, enjoyment, and enthusiasm.
Each one represents a certain vibrational frequency of consciousness. You need to be vigilant to make sure that one of them operates whenever you are engaged in doing anything at all-from the most simple task to the most complex. If you are not in the state of either acceptance, enjoyment, or enthusiasm, look closely and you will find that you are creating suffering for yourself and others.

-Eckhart Tolle

[scarletwoman]

65. I like this thought: "If you are not in the state of either acceptance, enjoyment, or enthusiasm,

look closely and you will find that you are creating suffering for yourself and others."

Thank you for your post.

sw

[scarletwoman]

62. morning kick...

[mikekohr]

63. Every One on This Board Should Read This Parable, -and reflect-

Wopila tanka


In the Spirit of Brotherhood
mike kohr

International Brotherhood Days
http://www.brotherhooddays.com

[scarletwoman]

64. Thank you. I do wish everyone would read it "and reflect", as you say.

I'm grateful that you found it and replied.

I'm looking at your website, very lovely!

Peace,
sw

[scarletwoman]

66. Kick for peacemaking. (nt)

[H2O Man]

67. Nominated.

Thank you.

[scarletwoman]

68. And thank you right back!

:loveya:

sw

[H2O Man]

79. I want to give

a more complete response to your thread. I had to find a book -- "Keepers of the Earth: Native American Stories and Environmental Activities for Children," by Mike Caduto and Joseph Bruchac. Years ago, before the internet, I was a co-editor of a couple Native American papers. We used to use Joseph's stories and poems. And I have enjoyed reading them with my children.

There is a lot of wisdom found in the stories that have been handed down through generations. Thank you for sharing this one.

[scarletwoman]

82. I'm sure I've seen that book. I used to work in a combination herb/bookstore, and we had a large

American Indian section. I was one of the book buyers who kept it stocked. :)

I've also had the great good fortune to have made some good Dakota, Lakota, and Ojibwe friends through the years. And spent some time with Alaska Natives when I lived up there. They have all generously nourished my soul.

Peace,
sw

[DevonRex]

69. Beautiful. Native American spirituality, traditions and philosophy

are so beautiful. There are many times that I have wished I could be part of that culture.

Instead, the maker saw fit to place me smack dab in the middle of a RW wacko, Southern fundamentalist Christian family. I wonder if he/she laughed when he/she did that. Or if he/she decided that I would be a better person for clawing myself out of it.

Oh well. Thank you for the beautiful story.

[scarletwoman]

71. There is wisdom to be found in EVERY human culture.

"Blessed are the Peacemakers" is just another way of declaring which wolf you will feed.

Thanks for your reply.

sw

[DevonRex]

73. Yes! Those are the words I read every night. For a long, long

time I turned away from Christianity because I was taught the fundamentalist brand, which generally ignores the Blesseds and goes straight for the fire and brimstone.

This life has been a spiritual journey, to be sure.

[Swamp Rat]

70. Thank you

:hug:

[scarletwoman]

75. I want you to know that some of your own calm and gentle posts were the inspiration

for me to look more deeply into my own thoughts and recognize that I simply must value peace more than any petty satisfaction that comes from beating people over the head with arguments -- even though I'm a damn good argumenter. :D

:hug: :loveya:

sw

[Swamp Rat]

77. I decided to stop feeding the angry wolf yesterday.

Wrapped up in my own self-riotousness, I was feeding him constantly since Friday up until the middle of the day yesterday when I realised I had lost my grounding. Thank you for posting this Native parable, as it is prescient and timed perfectly to (hopefully) gently nudge the DU zeitgeist in a more positive and productive direction. It is a fitting analogy for what I experienced in the last 24 hours.

Namasté

:hug::loveya::grouphug:

[scarletwoman]

83. It was pretty much the same for me. I took a hard look at myself, and how I was letting myself get

all worked up. I realized that was NOT the space I wanted to be in.

Plus, I've got this sig line that constantly reminds me of what I really ought to be doing. :P

:hug: :loveya: :pals: :grouphug:

sw

[klook]

72. GREAT post.

Thanks very much. "...hate wears you down, and does not hurt your enemy. It is like taking poison and wishing your enemy would die." Perfect.

[scarletwoman]

84. Yeah, I think it's perfect, too. I'd love to see this on the home page. Thanks for commenting! (nt)

[yardwork]

74. This is a good reminder. Thanks.

[scarletwoman]

85. I hope it helps a few people. We've got an awful lot of angry-wolf feeders around here. (nt)

[helderheid]

76. Love this.

[scarletwoman]

86. Thank you, I'm glad you found it. I have to go find your thread that you started earlier, too. (nt)

[hendo]

78. I haven't heard that take on it before n/t

[scarletwoman]

87. Do you mean "that take" on this particular story? Or this particular psychological metaphor? (nt)

[hendo]

96. this particular metaphor

I have heard a lot of other versions of it, but never this one.

[scarletwoman]

98. It's a good one, isn't it. Very simple and direct. Glad you saw my question & replied back. Thanks!

[hendo]

122. It sure is

When I'm around, I try to check the "My DU" link every so often to see if anyone replied to me.

[scarletwoman]

138. Yeah, I check the "my DU' link all the time. But sometimes I think there's quite a few who don't.

I try to continue conversations as much as I can.

:hi:
sw

[hendo]

139. and I have found

that here, more than other places I often have to clarify my meaning.

[scarletwoman]

145. I don't post anywhere else, so I don't have anything to compare to.

But I will say that I often myself reading posts in open-mouthed awe at how badly someone has misconstrued something that someone else wrote. There are many times where it appears to be deliberate, but also times when it appears to be caused by sheer cluelessness.

I like to give respondents to my own posts the benefit of the doubt when they seem to have not understood my meaning, and believe in making a good-faith attempt at clearing up misunderstandings rather than just lashing out.

sw

[barack the house]

80. Like your signature quote, which is why we must move to McCain now to make that progress.

[scarletwoman]

81. We must also tend to our wounded. There will be no going forward if we cannot care for ALL of our

fellow Democrats.

sw

[Kajsa]

88. This is beautiful, Scarletwomen.

Absolutely beautiful!

I know several adults who need to read this,
as they are feeding the wrong wolf right now.

I'm certainly going to use this when I'm teaching.

anger-
"It is like taking poison and wishing your enemy would die."

beautifully stated!

Thanks so much for sharing this.

:pals:

[scarletwoman]

89. Thank you for finding it! I just saw that this has made it to the home page -- I'm so pleased!

And I'm very pleased that you liked it.

I really, truly want my poor battered and bruised and traumatized fellow DUers to stop feeding their angry wolves.

:hug:
sw

[racaulk]

90. This should be required reading for everyone who frequents the GDP forum.

Thank you for posting this, what a beautiful story! It is a simple story with a powerful message...for those that choose to hear it.

:hi:

[scarletwoman]

105. Yeah, I'll readily admit that I DO wish everyone in GD-P would read it!

I hope that's not being too grandiose! :D

:hi:
sw

[NashVegas]

92. That's a Lovely Thought, But the American Indians Were Flattened

Their numbers decimated and what was left had the choice of assimilating or getting on the Trail of Tears.


I'd rather own my anger and recognize the fact that just because I'm angry, it doesn't necessarily mean there's an asshole in the room. Not the person who makes me angry, and not me for being angry.

"Anger is an energy" - John Lydon

[TBF]

93. And despite the odds we still evolve. K&R, great post SW!

[scarletwoman]

103. Thank you! I'm glad to see you here. Sorry I haven't made it back to your thread yet.

I will at least give it a kick as soon as I can.

:hi:
sw

[scarletwoman]

101. Yet they are still here, and so are at least some of their stories and teachings.

In the face of such losses, the Natives still perservered to keep what they could and adapt to the changing of their world. What else was there to do?

Anger would not have helped their survival, only adaptability.

sw

[Sunnyshine]

94. Sagest advice evah! Thank you for sharing this with us.

I am going to read this at our family reunion next weekend. We like to share forgotten folktales around the campfire. I can't wait to impart them with this wonderful lore. I will tell them how I found this too; scarletwoman on DU! :hi:

[scarletwoman]

107. Oh, thank you! What a wonderful reply!

You've just brought a big smile to my face! I'm so delighted that you'll be sharing this!

:hug:
sw

[DCofVA]

95. Groovy!

Man! That's really deep. :hippie:

[scarletwoman]

100. Thanks. I'm deep, too.

:hippie:

:rofl:

:D
sw

[varkam]

97. Very true, IMO. KR

:hi:

[scarletwoman]

110. Thank you! I'd like to do some small bit to make the moderators' jobs a little easier.

:D

:hi:
sw

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

113. I wish more people connected with the strength that overcomes a sense of powerlessness.

I thought myself "cynical" acknowledging that, there are many people not only unwilling but simply UNABLE to define their own selves. It's just too hard to complete the tasks of faithful commitments to FIND and DEFINE oneself.

That's not "cynicism",...it's life.

How aweful of me to have assumed every human being not only believes itself able to guide it's life but is also actually ABLE TO DO SO, completely.

Seriously.

(rant avoided)

I'm getting,...more 'mature' (ahem, let's say "over forty", to be kind, heh-heh) and what I see (have seen) is a commitment to the material over a commitment to the relationships that keep human beings STRONG.

I don't know how wolves operate. I figure they do far less damage to the world than we do. I have dogs (my family) that wanted to devour a baby bird jumping out of its nest too soon. What makes me different is, I put that baby bird back in its nest, protecting it from my own dogs. What's wrong with that?

[scarletwoman]

116. Anger drains our strength. We need each other. We need to stop poisoning ourselves.

Anyway, don't worry about no knowing about wolves, it's just a psychological metaphor. :D

Thanks for your post!

:hi:
sw

[SlipperySlope]

115. So, Obama is the good wolf and Clinton is the bad wolf?

Bad Wolf = "He fights everyone, all the time, for no reason." = Hillary's pointless campaign.
Good Wolf = "He saves all his energy for the right fight." = Obama turning to focus on McCain

[scarletwoman]

117. I'm sorry, but you have really very badly misread the parable.

The two wolves are both in US. ALL of us. When we give in to snarling and snapping at each other, we are feeding our angry wolves. When we reach out to each other in peace and compassion we are feeding our good wolves.

The story has nothing to with the candidates. It has to do with our own individual behavior as conscious human beings.

Peace,
sw

(edited for missing word)

[cui bono]

118. Funny, I knew that wasn't what your story was about but that occurred to me as well.

And I became happy that the people are feeding the wolf that isn't angry. :)

[scarletwoman]

128. Wow. It never occurred to me at all! Isn't it interesting how our minds work?

I was actually told this story in the traditional way by an Lakota elder that I knew many years ago. So its meaning is pretty deeply imbedded in my consciousness -- which is probably why I didn't have a clue that it could possibly be taken in a totally different context.

(It's so COMPLICATED here in GD-P! Aaaggghhhh!)

:D
sw

(edited for missing word)

[walldude]

119. Beautiful...

Too bad I read the responses. It kinda ruined the moment.


K&R for trying though! :toast:

[scarletwoman]

130. Thanks. As for the responses, they make kind of interesting object lesson, don't you think?

:D
sw

[slipslidingaway]

120. Thank you ! K&R n/t :)

[scarletwoman]

134. Thank you back for your k&r!

:D
sw

[LeftishBrit]

121. k&r

applicable to so many situations.

[scarletwoman]

131. "applicable to so many situations." Yup. That's the idea!

Thanks for your k&r.

:hi:
sw

[SalmonChantedEvening]

124. Bless you dear lady

Much needed words, you know not how so.

:hug: :loveya:

[scarletwoman]

132. Ah! One of the Lights of DU! I'm so glad you found my thread!

I'm delighted that these words were helpful to you!

:* :hug: :loveya:
sw

[SalmonChantedEvening]

142. Sometimes there are many wolves SW

And feeding the right ones can seem an impossible task. It often comes down to how each wolf treats you after it's been fed. Also how you must treat all of them, whether you feed them or not. As a part of you.

Pass the advil, I just went from Earth Wind & Fire to Lynyrd Skynyrd. My shoulders are confused as all hell ;)

:notwirlingthestickstheyalwaysfallyadummy:

:hug: :loveya:

[scarletwoman]

143. May all the right wolves receive all the right nourishment.

:hug:

Peace,
sw

[Uncle Joe]

127. Nice parable

Thanks for the thread, scarletwoman.:thumbsup:

[scarletwoman]

133. Thanks for posting on it!

:hug:
sw

[craz3z]

129. Thanks for posting this!

It's wonderful.

[scarletwoman]

135. Much appreciated! Welcome to DU!

:hi:
sw

[Dystopian]

136. Thank you scarletwoman.....k&r

That was beautiful...
:loveya:


peace~

[scarletwoman]

137. You're welcome! Thank you for the kind words and the k&r.

Peace to you also,

:hug:
sw

[KoKo]

140. Nice Post...Thanks...

sadly there's too much "wolf feeding" here on DU...done gleefully without thought of consequence.

It's important to think about this...it would seem. it would seem.

[scarletwoman]

141. Thank you. I am hoping that people WILL think about it.

"it would seem", indeed.

:)
sw

[lost-in-nj]

144. This is how midlife crisis is described

lost

[scarletwoman]

146. I think it applies to any number of situations.

As does; "This too shall pass."

:hug:
Peace,
sw

[petepillow]

147. I love this!

I am and will be sharing it with everyone I know who might appreciate it. Thanks!

[scarletwoman]

148. So glad! Thank YOU! (nt)

[HCE SuiGeneris]

149. Beautiful in its simplicity.

K & R

[scarletwoman]

158. Thank you for your k&r. "Beautiful in its simplicity" is a wonderful description. (nt)

[blue neen]

150. The story is so simple but so eloquent and all-encompassing.

I truly appreciate your post...it just added some calmness to a rough time in my life.

Thank you. :)

[scarletwoman]

159. Wow! That's so wonderful to hear. I'm so glad this was helpful!

You are so very welcome!

:hug:
sw

[DeepModem Mom]

154. Very happy to K&R!

[scarletwoman]

160. Very grateful for your k&r!

:D

Peace,
sw

[Buck Rabbit]

156. Those Hindus sure are wise.

[scarletwoman]

157. I use the terminology that my Native friends use themselves.

And yes, Hindus have wisdom in their traditions, too.

Peace,
sw

[dweller]

161. the wolves are always at the door

wanting out.

i can't rec, so i'll :kick: myself.

i can't kick the wolf i want to feed,
peace.
dp

[The Magistrate]

164. Real Wisdom Is A Thing Of Beauty, Ma'am

It reminds me of a passage out of the Great Tao which is a personal favorite....

"Weapons are instruments of fear. They are not a wise man's tools. He uses them only when he has no choice."

[scarletwoman]

165. Thank you, dear friend.

And thank you for the passage from the Great Tao.

:hug:
sw

[Shae]

168. Thanks . . .

You should post this once a day here!

:-)

[scarletwoman]

169. You're welcome. Thanks for giving this a kick.

As for posting this once a day, maybe different DUers could take turns posting it -- doesn't have to come just from me. :)

Thanks again,
sw

[PermanentRevolution]

171. Kick!

Truth always holds the power to move and inspire, whatever form it takes. Too many of us on here have been feeding our angry wolves of late.

"...hate wears you down, and does not hurt your enemy. It is like taking poison and wishing your enemy would die."

This is about to become my sig line...

:pals:

Thank you for sharing this with us.

[scarletwoman]

173. Wow! I'm so honored that you got a new sig line out of this thread!

I regret being so late to find your post, so I don't know if you'll see my reply to you -- I hope you do.

Thank you so much for your lovely and kind words.

:hug:
Peace,
sw

[slipslidingaway]

172. Kick n/t

[scarletwoman]

174. Thank you for the kick. It's never too late to try to send something good out into the world. (nt)

[slipslidingaway]

175. YW, never too late and never too often n/t

[MikeH]

176. Sorry to post a negative response to something that others have liked

I regret and am sorry to be one to post a negative comment about a story that many people have regarded as being beautiful, but I feel I must. This story is very typical of simplistic advice or preaching that was totally unhelpful to me when I was younger.

I first came across this particular parable as one of two dogs in a very fundamentalist Christian book which was used in a book study by a fellowship group I was in at the church I was going to as a young man in my 20’s, over 30 years ago now. The author was, I think, affiliated with the Moody Bible Institute.

I had a lot of anger as a kid growing up, which carried over well into my young adulthood, and often acted out my anger in destructive or unhelpful ways. I was often lectured, moralized, or preached to about my temper, which did very little good. People doing so would mostly include my parents, but also grandparents, teachers, other adults, and sometimes friends. As a kid and teenager I was often punished for things I did in anger; as a young adult I was often scolded or lectured to.

I would say that the one thing that most helped me regarding my anger was my coming to the realization, a little over a year after my father died, when I was in my mid-30’s (over 20 years ago now) that much of my father’s behavior, which I had mostly accepted (though resented) for most of my life up till then, because it was supposedly done out of love and “for my own good”, was actually abusive, especially emotionally and psychologically (though I did receive my share of spankings when I was a kid).

In other words it was not just something wrong with me that I was often angry with and resented things my dad said and did, which anger spilled into other things. Until I came to fully realize that, any moralizing, preaching, or advice was going to be of no help to me in dealing with my anger, since it did not get to an important root cause of my anger. Thinking of my dad as being in any way abusive was something that I did not dare do while he was alive.

In particular, my dad often treated an honest mistake, an honest forgetting of something, or something not measuring up to his standards as if it were a serious crime or an affront to him. And he was often very poor at understanding, or even trying to understand, from my point of view, sensitive matters which would cause me to be upset.


To tell the truth, I consider the story of the two wolves to be an example of what Alice Miller calls poisonous pedagogy in her book titled For Your Own Good (a phrase my father very often used, as I indicated above).

I think what the grandfather needed to do was to fully accept and emphasize with the boy’s feeling of anger, and let him fully feel his feelings, before preaching to him or giving him any advice. And once the boy has had his angry feelings validated, then the grandfather would need to work with the boy in helping him to decide just what he needed to do, and which would be in the boy’s overall best interest, taking into account the boy’s feelings (which are very important messages, and which need to be respected) as well as any prudential concerns.

Actually, in order for the grandfather to truly be able to do this, the grandfather would need to be fully aware of his own childhood feelings and mistreatment, according to Alice Miller.

I think that the idea of a bad wolf within us that needs to be starved, and Christian teachings such as “mortifying the flesh“, “dead to self and alive to Christ” fall under the category of splitting off and projection, which Alice Miller elaborates here as being the central mechanism of poisonous pedagogy. This splitting off and projecting leads to such things as, for instance, the citizens of the Third Reich persecuting the Jewish people as being carriers of any weaknesses that were abhorred because they had been forbidden and regarded as dangerous in childhood. And it results in a parent punishing or persecuting in his/her child something that the parent was punished for in childhood, and which the parent has since repressed.

The real dangerous emotions, according to Alice Miller (and with which I fully agree), are those which have been repressed and are below the surface, not those which are consciously experienced.


Here are some points that Alice Miller makes here in a flyer titled “The Roots of Violence”; the title is pretty self-explanatory. The important point is that children need to be treated with respect, and need to be allowed to be fully conscious of their feelings and emotions; otherwise any preaching or any cute stories like that of the two wolves are not going to be of any help.

1. All children are born to grow, to develop, to live, to love, and to articulate their needs and feelings for their self-protection.

2. For their development, children need the respect and protection of adults who take them seriously, love them, and honestly help them to become oriented in the world.

3. When these vital needs are frustrated and children are, instead, abused for the sake of adults' needs by being exploited, beaten, punished, taken advantage of, manipulated, neglected, or deceived without the intervention of any witness, then their integrity will be lastingly impaired.

4. The normal reactions to such injury should be anger and pain. Since children in this hurtful kind of environment are forbidden to express their anger, however, and since it would be unbearable to experience their pain all alone, they are compelled to suppress their feelings, repress all memory of the trauma, and idealize those guilty of the abuse. Later they will have no memory of what was done to them.

5. Disassociated from the original cause, their feelings of anger, helplessness, despair, longing, anxiety, and pain will find expression in destructive acts against others (criminal behavior, mass murder) or against themselves (drug addiction, alcoholism, prostitution, psychic disorders, suicide). If these people become parents, they will then often direct acts of revenge for their mistreatment in childhood against their own children, whom they use as scapegoats.

…


11. Our sensitization to the cruelty with which children are treated, until now commonly denied, and to the consequences of such treatment will as a matter of course bring to an end the perpetuation of violence from generation to generation.

12. People whose integrity has not been damaged in childhood, who were protected, respected, and treated with honesty by their parents, will be - both in their youth and in adulthood - intelligent, responsive, empathic, and highly sensitive.

They will take pleasure in life and will not feel any need to kill or even hurt others or themselves. They will use their power to defend themselves, not to attack others.

They will not be able to do otherwise than respect and protect those weaker than themselves, including their children, because this is what they have learned from their own experience, and because it is this knowledge (and not the experience of cruelty) that has been stored up inside them from the beginning.

It will be inconceivable to such people that earlier generations had to build up a gigantic war industry in order to feel comfortable and safe in this world.

Since it will not be their unconscious drive in life to ward off intimidation experienced at a very early age, they will be able to deal with attempts at intimidation in their adult life more rationally and more creatively.