How Electable Would Hillary Be If Supers Overturned The Pledged Delegates?

[malik flavors]

There's a lot of talk from the Clinton camp and from the media pundits about Hillary's electability, but how electable would she really be if the supers overturned the pledged delegates? She's polling pretty strong right now, but how strongly would she poll after the backlash that would certainly come if she were given the nomination over the pledged delegate winner?

The rules clearly state that the nomination goes to the winner of the pledged delegates, so if she were to be given the nomination wouldn't there be such an uproar that she would be almost completely unelectable? The party would NEVER come together if somethnig like that were to happen. And along with a split party she would galvanize the republican base making it extremely difficult to win in November. She would lose so much support and there would be so much infighting that her polling numbers would most likely sink like a rock, and probably never recover. The republicans would dust off the Hillary playbook and go to town on her and Bill over his international dealings, impeachment, and library donations amongst other things. Her negatives would be the highest of any person that's ever run for president and think how high they would be with half the party furious over how she got the nomination.

Obama is actually polling really well considering how many Hillary supporters are against him right now, and I don't think Hillary would run as strong if she got the nomination becasue Obama supporters would be hugely against her as a result. How could she win the presidency without African Americans and Eggheads, as Paul Begala so artfully put it? She coudln't, and they would be way more upset than Hillary supporters are right now because they'd actually have a good reason to be. Hillary supporters are just mad that she's losing, they can get over that eventually, but if supers overtuned the delegates Obama supporters would likely never get over that.

So considering all of this, how electable is Hillary Clinton really? Forget her current polling numbers and electoral map because were she given the nomination those numbers would completely change, and surely for the worse. Her chances of winning the presidency would fall from its current percentage of around 58% to something more like 25% - 35%, and that's before republicans even began working on her. So I ask you again, how electable is Hillary Clinton really, and if she were given the nomination over the pledged delegate winner wouldn't she be a guaranteed loser? People like to say Obama can't win, but if Hillary were given the nomination would she even have the slightest chance of winning? It seems highly doubtful, so how exactly is she electable?

[Ichingcarpenter]

1. Paragraphs????? Please??? n/t

[malik flavors]

12. Fixed for the english majors

[cali]

2. Sorry, without paragraph breaks

I just can't read it.

[malik flavors]

10. better?

[book_worm]

3. If the SD went against the pledged delegates (they won't) and gave Hill the nomination...

many Obama supporters would rightly believe he was robbed. I think there would be chaos at the convention and the party would not be united and McCain would almost certainly win.

[DeschutesRiver]

24. Not only would McCain

win, but there may not be a democrat holding the presidency for awhile after. The chaos and anger in the democratic party would not allow much forward progress. It would be a party disaster with rammifications that spiral out much further than just this coming election.

[Jewelsparkle]

32. Unfortunately

I've heard many people suggest that blacks will riot if this happens. Because I guess black people can't control their emotions? If something doesn't go their way, they'll burn buildings? How tiring it must be to deal with that kind of mentality, how insulting. I completely understand the anger...I'd be angry myself. As Chris Rock said, funny how we've never heard of "Superdelegates" until a black person has a chance at the Presidency!

[Cosmocat]

41. This is why the SDs have been going to BO ...

for the last three months ...

In republican style, Hill is painting herself as a victim and her supporters are buying that she somehow is getting jobbed ...

She lost by the rules of the game ...

As noted, if this were to go against BO, he WOULD be jobbed, and HIS baseline support would JUSTIFIABLY feel he was jobbed, and the african american vote would AT BEST be surpressed for this election ...

Most likely, the african american voters would drop out for a long time, and the overwhelming amount of new registeries would be lost for a very long time, also ... And, Hill would bring out the max R vote against her ...

The MSM lets camp clinton push the messaging that she is the one getting jobbed and Obama has "electability problems" but again, in typically republican means, the opposite would be the case ...

[NJSecularist]

4. Obama will not win 2025 pledged delegates.

So the point is moot.

[papau]

6. 2210 is number of total delegates needed - and votes change prior to convention

[Kittycat]

35. Wrong. Until the Rules Committee changes it - the number is 2026. Quit spinning.

You're going to throw up on your new shoes.

[Major Hogwash]

16. No, but he has a combination of pledged delegates and super delegates. More than Hillary.

So, overturning their choice is what the OP was about.

[NJSecularist]

26. If Hillary won the nomination, the superdelegate's choices would be overturned. n/t

[hokies4ever]

29. Will you cry when Hillary withdraws from the race?

:rofl:

[Major Hogwash]

33. She can't win the nomination without those pledged delegates.

You seem to forget how to do simple math.

[papau]

5. Sorry - but current polls say she wins General while Obama may not

[malik flavors]

8. is this a joke? Or did you not read the Op?

[Kittycat]

36. She can't win the General, if she can't win the Primaries

:shrug:

[Crunchy Frog]

39. "Current polls" show that we enjoyed eight years of the Dukakis presidency.

[LSparkle]

7. Good point ... HRC is only focusing on WINNING the primary ...

not about what happens NEXT. You're right about her
"electability" going out the window if she wins the
way she's planning to ... How can she justify being
the nominee when the PEOPLE aren't behind her? She
likes to use that "argument" about winning the "popular
vote" while dismissing ALL CAUCUS STATES, but in the
cold light of day, will it stand up? She'd make a
mockery of the party (which has already been an easy
target due to the "SuperDelegates") -- how could any
Democrat be proud of a party that allows its "elites"
to wrest the nomination from the man TRULY supported
by the people?

It's typical of the Clintons to only focus on the NOW
and not to think of the repercussions. Their philo-
sophy has always been to just win now, and clean it
up later ... but in this case, they may NOT be able
to clean up the mess they leave behind.

[Doityourself]

9. It's not going to happen. They are not going to overturn the pledged delegates. Anybody that thinks

so...is far beyond delusional.

[raebrek]

11. quit it n/t

[butterfly77]

13. You got that right...

I am so tired of these commentators trying to convince us that if we don't give Hillary what she wants her supporters will not vote for Obama and I don't believe this is true some won't but a lot will. They frame it as though we Obama supporters will just go along with the program.

What I don't get is how a lot of her supporters can't see how the RepubliCONS have been working on Hillary's campaign all along as soon as that saw that Obama was winning. They are not talking her up for nothing after all of the years I have watched them talk her down they are getting so angry that they are about to blow a gasket(Pat Buchanan and Scarborough) this thing has really blown the republicOns minds. They show up on CNN and and try to tell us how to run our campaign and this has been bugging me for months...

[malik flavors]

15. The republicans wnat her to win because of the scenerio I laid out.

They know if she gets the nomination the dems have zero chance of winning in November. They just want maximum chaos and she's playing right into their hands. She's even promoting Karl Roves arguments for Pete's sake.

[Mike L]

14. Would you be a traitor to the Democratic Party by refusing to vote for Hillary? em

[malik flavors]

17. Would you be a traitor to democracy if you voted for her?

[Mike L]

19. No. She's a Democrat. Much better than McCain, although he's a moderate Repub. em

[malik flavors]

25. How would it be democratic if supers overturned the will of the people?

[Mike L]

27. That's their job. To make a correction if Dem voters screw up in a primary.

And the voters sure blew this one. It's not democratic, but it's in the best interest of the party.

[malik flavors]

28. How is it in the best interest of the party if Hillary would be completely unelectable?

[Mike L]

31. Hillary is very electable. She would get the blue states, plus OH and maybe FL.

We must win either OH or FL to win the election. Obama is waaaay behind in FL, and the demographics are wrong for hin to win OH, as we saw in the OH Dem primary.

[Major Hogwash]

37. She would if she were the nominee. She ain't the nominee, though.

So much for that shit.

[malik flavors]

38. How would Hillary win Florida or Ohio with half of the democratic base against her...

after the supers took the nomination away from the pledged delegate winner? How would she win the traditional blue states without the youth vote, liberals, the highly educated, and African Americans?

And Obama is likely to win Colorado, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, and Iowa. He doesn't need Florida or Ohio, though he'll probably also win Ohio. He's up in the polls ther right now and McCain is very pro free trade. He also might pick Strickland as a running mate which would guarantee a win in that state. Obama is running strong right now.

[Mike L]

45. Thats not what the GE polls say. em

[Mike L]

46. Obama has half the Dem base against him. em

[malik flavors]

48. He has more support than Hillary would have if the supers overturned the will of the voters.

The main reason Hillary is polling well right now is becasue Obama supporters aren't completely against her, but if the supers took it away she would loose their support and her numbers would drop drastically.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

42. How did I screw up? By voting other than HRC?

My bad. SD's please correct my error.

:wtf:

[Major Hogwash]

18. You mean like how Lieberman lost his primary and then formed an independent party?

Made up mostly of Republicans?

[Mike L]

20. Exactly. Like the traitor Lieberman. em

[Major Hogwash]

22. I don't think Hillary will form her own party.

It doesn't make any sense to me that she would even try.

[Mike L]

23. I was talking about Obama supporters. em

[Major Hogwash]

34. Obama isn't going to start his own party, though. He almost has this nomination wrapped up.

So, your point is moot.

[SoxFan]

21. Less electable than...

But slightly more electable than...

[Roxy66]

30. Many African Americans might reject her and the Repugs would come out

in huge numbers against her....she's not a strong candidate.

[jsmirman]

40. It would destroy the party- possibly forever. Huge difference between having a nom stolen

and not getting your way.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

43. She'd Be Perfectly Fine. She'd Still Whoop His Ass.

[malik flavors]

44. Haha, Ok. That's fine if you believe that, but care to tell me where i'm wrong?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

47. All You Did Was Offer Wild Subjective Opinion Pulled Out Of Your Ass. I Believe It's All Wrong.

Some people would be bitter for sure, but all in all the democrats hatred for bush would be more than enough for the overwhelming majority of democrats and indy's to still go out there and vote for Hillary. In the end, she'll be fine. In the end, she should still be able to kick the shit out of McCain. So quit your worryin...

[malik flavors]

49. I'm assuming you feel the same about Obama then? That hatred of Bush etc. will bring us together?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

51. Why Wouldn't I?

Pretty stupid question to be honest with ya...

[malik flavors]

52. There are Obama and Hillary supporters on this site that never make sense.

I needed to know if you were one of them, especially since you have rev, wright reference in your sig. I figured you were another nutcase, perhaps I was wrong?

[PatGund]

50. She wouldn't be

Her electability would be zero, and we'd be looking at a McCain presidency.

The question at that point comes to how badly would it effect races downstream, since the Democratic party would be torn in two.

The plus is that a Sen. Clinton loss in the GE would effectively kill the DLC once and for all. The question is would the DNC be able to rise again, or would it be effectively destroyed in the process.

At this point, the DLC would be killed by two things in the General Election:

A win by Sen. Obama
A loss by Sen. Clinton

Of the two, I would dare say most Americans would want to see a win by Sen. Obama more than a loss by Sen. Clinton.