A proposal for the 2012 Democratic nomination process

[BigDaddy44]

No caucuses. No delegates. No Superdelegates. 50 state primaries, and the winner of the popular vote gets the nod.

(within the DNC's ability to create)


A proposal for the 2012 General Election:

No Electors. No Electoral College. Nationwide election, and the winner of the popular vote gets the presidency.

(impossible without Constitutional amendment)


Are we in agreement?

[NC_Nurse]

1. Can we get through this one first with the rules that are in place?

THEN we can figure out how to change them.

[BigDaddy44]

2. We already are through with this one

The nominee is known by everyone except the loser.

[NC_Nurse]

4. True, but some people sure are stubborn about screwing things up.

[WeDidIt]

3. Your first proposal is doable, the second not so much

The second proposal requires a constitutional amendment. That ain't gonna happen before 2012.

[Hugabear]

5. Better idea - just give the damned thing to Hillary Clinton

Otherwise, we'll just be tearing the party apart by having anyone oppose her.

[Honeycombe8]

6. Obama, as the incumbent, will be the nominee, of course. :) nt

[mohc]

7. Technically your second proposal does not require an amendment

If enough states join the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, then the popular vote would determine the Presidency. There would still be electors and the electoral college, but they would just be a formality. It is currently only at 50 electoral votes though, so there is a long way to go, but if it passed in every state where it is pending it would cross the 270 mark.

[Scout]

I like both proposals

Especially the first one...

[rox63]

8. We'll already have an incumbent Dem, President Obama

So he will almost certainly be the nominee.

[VolcanoJen]

9. There won't be a Democratic nomination process in 2012.

President Obama will be nominated unanimously, much in the way Bill Clinton was in 1996.

[tomreedtoon]

10. Let's parachute the monkey instead.

You know, the plan by Lewis Black? The winner of <í>American Idol picks a spot on the map randomly, while blindfolded, with a pin. A plane flies overhead, and drops a monkey with a parachute. The monkey goes walking around. The first hand he contacts, THAT's the President.

At least it would save all the emotional agony experienced in DU this year.

[havocmom]

11. Considering the past few years, Mr. Black's idea seems sound

and possibly, an improvement. :rofl:

Thanks for posting that. I forgot this splendid plan for leadership selection. It would also have the benefit of deleting the votes of the corporate SUPER DUPER DELEGATES that is Media Ownership.

[Tesha]

12. There won't be much dissent about renominating President Obama.

Well, except from the Hillary supporters who will
flock back to DU during the Primary season and
"explain" to us why we should eject the incumbent
Democratic President in favor of Hillary. ;)

Tesha

[OzarkDem]

13. No proportional vote counting in the Dem primary

Using a proportional process in the primary when the GE is still based on representative voting is political suicide for Dems - it propels the weaker candidate ahead in the primary, then leaves them to run with a smaller base of support in a straight race in the GE.

Sort of like grading on the curve all year long, then grading on an absolute scale for the final. BTW, the final represents 100% of your grade.

[jsmirman]

14. I'm sorry, but all you should be thinking about in 2012 is reelecting Obama

Posts about what to do in 2016, fine. But your post seems to have a disturbing bent towards suggesting we shouldn't be thinking that we'll be renominating an incumbent in 2012.

[BigDaddy44]

16. Oh is that so?

Ted Kennedy didn't have that opinion in 1980. You have a problem with him? Was he "disturbing"?

You have no idea what the situation will be in 2012. None of us do. To just blow it off is irresponsible.

[jsmirman]

19. We have a nominee. Only poor logic can imagine otherwise.

To not root for that nominee to win in 2008 and then to not hope for anything beyond four good years and a reelection campaign in against the principles of this site.

And how did 1980 turn out????

[BigDaddy44]

21. Of course we have a nominee

I'm not talking about 2008. I'm talking about 2012. I'm a rooter, but i'm also a realist. Should we just cancel the entire 2012 process right now? Or prepare for it?

[nebenaube]

15. the rules in place

are a hedge against electioneering by groups such as 'Operation Chaos'. I didn't understand or like the concept of super-delegates before but I get it now. It was actually a brilliant choice to implement the rules we currently have. Otherwise, the R's would be picking our candidate.

[NeedleCast]

17. No

I like caucuses, and at the end of the day, the states have a right to choose which method they prefer.

[crispini]

18. Your first point is NOT within the DNC's ability to create.

Sorry. The state legislatures control where and how their primaries are held, NOT the DNC.

Your second point is actually more practical. There's a current effort underway to get the states to pass amendments requiring their electors to cast their electoral college vote for the winner of the popular vote. This would get us there, while skirting that constitutional amendment thingy. Several states have already passed this legislation, which will only take effect when the majority of states do the same.

Now, setting aside the "CAN be done" factor for a moment, let's look at the "SHOULD be done." I am most emphatically NOT in favor of a 50 state primary. That means the biggest fundraiser wins, instantly. That's a no-deal for me.

[BigDaddy44]

22. Excellent point

And you're right on point 1.

As to point two, I beg to disagree. It won't happen, as small states will not sign up to anything that dilutes their impact.

[crispini]

23. Interestingly enough...

thanks to the poster upthread, I googled "National Popular Vote Interstate Compact"

States that have passed it:

Hawaii (4 EVs)
Illinois (21)
Maryland (10)
New Jersey (15)

So, it looks like *some* small states are considering it. In Vermont, it passed the lege but was vetoed by the governor. More here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact#State_by_state_status

I think it might have a shot!

[BigDaddy44]

24. Of course, the devils advocate question....

What if Obama loses the popular vote, but wins the electoral college (a real possibility)............ Still want it passing?

[mohc]

27. As I said in my post

If every single state that is considering it passes it, it will just barely cross the 270 threshold. But keep in mind it has been defeated more often than it has passed in states where it is being considered.

[Marnieworld]

20. I'm fine with the current system

A winner is emerging. It took time so a lot of voters voices were heard. It's worked for a long time. I see nothing broken here.

You're off about the dates it's 2016 when this would even be thinkable.

[anonymous171]

25. Get rid of SDs, rotate state primaries, and ban FL from voting.

[wvbygod]

26. Better yet: accept Hillary's win and not worry about it until 2016

That is the ticket.

[newmajority]

28. How about this...

No superdelegates. ALL caucuses (until every last electro fraud machine is obliterated). Any state violating the DLC rules will not have a single delegate seated at the convention. New system of primaries, so Iowa and New Hampshire do not always get to pick.

As far as the General Election goes, the one thing that needs to be changed there is getting rid of the electro-fraud machines. When that's done, we can go back to forgetting about the electoral college like we always did before 2000.

The other things in the process that need to be fixed......

Death to corporate financing. Break up the corporate media. Caucuses start in April or May, not December of the previous year, for fucks sake. Enough of these 2 year campaigns.

There won't be a 2012 primary, as we'll have an incumbent President Obama, so we have 8 years to get this right for 2016.

[AZBlue]

29. You meant 2016.

President Obama will hold two terms in office.

[intaglio]

30. So you reckon McCainus will be pResident

So how do you get the Constitutional amendment for the GE?

On the other hand if BHO is Pres then you may well get the Constitutional change but no Primary process.