R. Maddow: She WILL take it to the convention. She MUST to fully seat MI and FL!

[shomino]

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/SANFRANCISCO-CA/KKGN-AM/Rachel%20Maddow%205-28-08%20Hour%201.mp3

The Clinton campaign have framed the seating of the MI and FL delegates as a "civil rights" issue, demanding no less than 100% of their delegates be seated. The DNC lawyers have sent a memo saying that the Rules and Bylaws committee only has the authority to grant 50% of the delegates from MI and FL.

Where can Clinton appeal this decision to? Who has the authority to seat ALL those delegates? The Credentials Committee. When can the Credentials Committee make that decision? The first day of the Democratic National Convention in Denver.

She's probably taking it to the convention ladies and gentlemen, whether we like it or not.

[stray cat]

1. We'll do it live! Sounds like someone else we all know

[gateley]

2. K&R. Rachel presents a very real possibility. nt

[Spider Jerusalem]

3. Let her.

There are enough statements from Pelosi and Reid on this to make it clear that if she chooses to follow this path it will result in making herself a pariah and totally destroying any future she may have within the Democratic Party. And good fucking riddance.

[rhett o rick]

4. I am on Rachel's side. No matter what the issue. nm

[polichick]

5. Won't matter, as long as Barack moves onto the general...

...and the media stops covering her, which msnbc folks are already talking about. If she wants to walk away with a shred of a chance that the history books won't slay her, she'll drop it in June.

[no_hypocrisy]

6. And wouldn't it be a crushing humiliation if the Committee doesn't back down

during the Convention? There is that real possibility.

[Romulox]

7. Just FYI: Lawyers argue/brief cases--they do not decide them.

"Where can Clinton appeal this decision to?"

[shomino]

8. Bad terminology I guess? What's a better way of stating it? -nt

[Romulox]

18. It's not just a terminology problem, or I wouldn't have mentioned it...

Deciding a case means ruling authoritatively on the merits of that case. Arguing a case is to advocate for one side or the other. The difference is important. The former is backed up by authority, the latter is backed up only by its persuasiveness.

So, in other words, a lawyer writing a brief that says, "this is what the law means," has no real independent force until a source of authority endorses and adopts that understanding of the law. In this case, the authority in question is the Rules and Bylaws Committee. Now the RBC may well adopt the position advocated by the lawyers, but that position will not have the weight of authority until they do so.

Given the inherently political nature of all of this, I would sincerely doubt that the "rules", or this particular interpretation of them, will be the controlling factor in the RBC members' minds, one way or another.

[shomino]

21. Ah, I understand. Interesting point. -nt

[TexasObserver]

9. She can't take it to the convention if the two states SETTLE it.

[LSK]

10. what is stopping the Credentials Committee from meeting before August?

[DJ13]

11. Attn Dean, Pelosi, Reid, Gore... END THIS

...signed,

[napi21]

12. I love Rachel, and agree with her most of the time, but not this time.

I heard her discussing this last night. I'm basing my opinion on Hillary's recent actions, and Terry McAllauf (sp). Last week Terry said "There will be a candidate by June 15th! I don't think there's anyone closer to Hill's campaign than Terry, and although he's a great spinner, he doesn't flat out lie! Hillary has backed off of the nesties, and there has to be a reson why. Couple her actions & words with Terry's comments, and I say we'll hae a chosen candidate FOR SURE between June 4th and June 15th, and the Primary race will be over.

[book_worm]

13. It isn't about civil rights with Hillary it's about 2012 and making sure Obama loses so she

can run again.

[Spider Jerusalem]

15. If she goes through to the convention...

despite clear signals from the party leadership that it is over, that she will not be nominated...despite an insurmountable deficit in delegates, despite the fact that she accepted the DNC decision re Florida and Michigan MONTHS ago...she has no political future. She won't be running again, not in 2012 or any other time. And will probably get shut out of any leadership positions in the Senate, and face a primary challenge if she chooses to run again. It's over, and the further she carries it, the more damaging it is to her already slender future prospects.

[Phx_Dem]

14. I love Rachel

but I disagree with her somewhat on this. Of course Hillary will want to take it to the convention, but she'll be shut down. Obama will have enough delegates on or shortly after June 3 to claim the nomination. And that will end the contest for everyone but, of course, the Clintons. Any continuation of Hillary's reign of terror against her own party will spur party leaders, influential and senior Democrats to be blunt with the Clintons and tell them in no uncertain terms . . . it's fucking over!

I just saw a report on CNN that showed Hillary visiting Mt. Rushmore and the reporter said she was operating with a "skeleton crew" and only a couple reporters in tow. Most of her staff has seen the light and they are not going to further jepoardize their political careers by continuing down this path. I'm sure the few remaining staff (excluding Lannie) are staying put until the last vote has been cast. And that's fair enough. Contrary to the Clintons' claims, VERY few people have suggested she get out of the race. They just want her to stop with the over-the-line tactics (Jesse Jackson, white voters, McCain is more qualified, assassination, Barack is "unelectable") crap.

Pelosi is no shrinking violet and she won't be having it. Nor will nearly every other Democrat. Politicians are polticians and they are not about to stand by and allow some delusional and selfish person to destroy their party and their careers. Not happening. In case you haven't heard, Hillary isn't that popular in the Senate. Andrea Mitchell reported last week on Hardball that Hillary wouldn't win the secret ballot for majority leader in the Senate. Nor would she get a Committee Chair position. Do you really think they will allow someone that they wouldn't support for Majority Leader to destroy them? Nah.

Relax and have a drink on me. :beer:


Edited to add: I want to say that I liked Hillary and Bill when this campaign started, but they lost me after NH and before SC when they started with the negative and, IMO, inappropriate remarks about a fellow Democrat. Right now, I'm very angry with both of them. But when this election is over, I am going to try and put our differences behind me so I can, once again, support Hillary as a fellow Democrat. I hope she'll regain some of her dignity and allow me and others to do that. :pals:


(Mrs. Phx_Dem)

[atufal1c]

20. And Carville has said that Obama will probably win the General.

And that he'll support him.

Saw it this morning in a clip.

They may, MAY, be putting up a serious front until June 3rd.

It's a certainty, though, that this is a team sport. And she can't play it by herself..

I just saw Chuck Todd talking about how he thinks it's going to wrap up soon. Maybe.

[nichomachus]

16. Seat the delegates -- and then

build a fire and burn the party rules about everything, because they are meaningless. The party will be a joke.

[JuniperLea]

17. As well she should! If we don't nip this bullshit in the bud...

It can happen all over again.

The problem began with the states of MI and FL... they should never have been allowed to change their primary dates! Bottom line!

If it takes Clinton taking this to the convention in order to make sure this bullshit doesn't happen again, more power to her.

It's well past time to start battling the REAL enemy in this election... McCain!

[Spider Jerusalem]

19. Er, that's a painfully stupid argument

What Clinton wants to do is take it through to the convention in order to ensure that neither Florida nor michigan is penalised for violating the primary calendar. This is not a good thing. And given the clear illegitimacy of the Michigan primary, especially, for her to demand those delegations be seated as-is, with Obama receiving NONE of the uncommitted votes (which IS what she's asking) is a mockery of the process. You are totally wrong.

[JuniperLea]

24. Just because you don't get it

Doesn't mean it's a stupid argument.

How else to draw attention to the problem? It's obvious it wouldn't be fair to seat the delegates. The ridiculous nature of her request is exactly what is needed to shed light on the stupidity that is these states' actions in the matter.

You are wrong. She wants to make it to the convention, period. Kicking up this stink INSURES she will go to the convention because decisions on the matter cannot be made until then.

Stupid is on the other foot.

[Spider Jerusalem]

25. There is no problem.

The problem is that Michigan and Florida violated the primary calendar. A fifty percent delegate penalty is written into DNC rules under such circumstances. Taking it to the convention only makes Hillary look like a sore loser.

[JuniperLea]

27. There is a problem

The states VIOLATED rules. Just because there is a punishment doesn't mean it's ok to break the rules. Obama wasn't on one of the ballots... the 50% rule CANNOT apply.

There is a huge problem.

[Spider Jerusalem]

28. Sure it can.

50% of delegates seated and Obama ggets all uncommitted. And that's probably what's going to happen. Watch.

[Bensthename]

22. Hillary may go to the convention but they wont let her in the door.

she will have lost and her showing up will only help McCain..

"Sorry senator Clinton your name is not on the list, I can not let you in"...

[quaker bill]

23. Yes, but

she can only take it to the convention if she gets six votes at the RBC. Five votes or less and the challenge will have no standing. This is also in the rules.

It is important to remember that the 100 percent sanction was imposed by unanimous vote (100%) of the RBC, which would include all 13 "Clinton backers".

I do not know, but I suspect the RBC will offer a reasonable settlement and if Hillary will not take it, then they will vote, and Hillary will not have a sufficient minority for the challenge to have standing at the convention. I am again postulating, but as these people are not nuts, part of the settlement offered will demand dismissal of all pending litigation against the DNC with prejudice (so it cannot be refiled later).

I suspect that she will take the settlement or lose in a rout.

[crickets]

26. Likely not, thank goodness.

Reid Also ready to Shut it Down: Coordinates with Dean & Pelosi
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6173267

Uncommitted superdelegate and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., visiting San Francisco, told KGO Radio today that he spoke this morning with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and last night to DNC Chairman Howard Dean. "We agree there won’t be a fight at the convention," he said, later adding that "simple math indicates" Barack Obama is likely to become the Democratic nominee.