Two more FL Dems weigh in against party...seriously negative stuff. Won't endorse Obama.

[madfloridian]

Someone just posted to me about why do I post what is being said against the party by her campaign. I would think it would be obvious by now.

Hillary has more to do than she did. She needs to talk to some important Florida Democrats and tell them to hush. She needs to let up on the "sexism made me lose" stuff and encourage her supporters to do the same.

Here is what former Tampa mayor Sandy Freedman said to Hillary in a letter, which of course she had to give to the news media here.

Here is what Republican turned Democrat Tim Mahoney said, the next thing after he said he owed nothing to the Democratic Party.

''I don't owe the party anything,'' said Mahoney, whose election helped the Democrats take control of Congress. ``If anybody owes anybody anything, it's Nancy Pelosi who owes a debt to me.''

Mahoney partly blames the dispute over Florida's convention delegates for his commitment problem, but it's clear the real reason he's distancing himself from a liberal Democrat is concern for his own survival. The GOP spent roughly $2 million against him in 2006; he faces three Republican challengers in 2008.

Here are their own words, freely shared with the media to be divisive.

Divisive Florida Democrats

This is a former Tampa mayor saying she may not vote for Obama. This is really bad stuff. She is/was respected. What a shame.

Sandy Freedman's steamed at her party

Count former Tampa Mayor Sandy Freedman among the many Democrats still seething over the Democratic primary and what she sees as rampant sexism in this country. She told Buzz she's not sure she'll vote for Obama (though definitely not McCain), and here's part of a letter she sent Clinton: "The blatant sexism and bias that we have seen is far more than any of us could have imagined. And, worst of all, was the silence by those who should have been most vocal about it — Obama, (Nancy) Pelosi, (Harry) Reid, (John) Dean, (Teddy) Kennedy and all of the others who for years have professed that our party stood taller for women than the Republicans. You have been there for us. THEY HAVE FAILED US.

"Much has been written and spoken during this campaign about a dialogue on race. Great oratory has been heard and columns have been read. But, nothing about a dialogue on gender — a far more insidious and covert action taking place in the workplace, on the playground, in the boardrooms and, yes, in our political life. After you have your much deserved rest, you can lead that national dialogue on gender. Not just with speeches, but with forums and town hall meetings around this country."

Endorse Obama? Uhhh, no, thank you

Confident about Obama's broad appeal to swing voters and Republicans? Well, Florida's most vulnerable Democratic U.S. House member, Tim Mahoney of Palm Beach Gardens, apparently is not so convinced. The businessman who won former Rep. Mark Foley's seat told Buzz he's not endorsing Obama even now that he has the nomination locked up.

"I'm doing what I was elected to do, and I don't think people elected me to be running around to cocktail parties endorsing people," Mahoney said. "If I had to take a look at where Sen. McCain stands today … and I look at how Obama stacks up to McCain, Obama is a better choice for Florida," he said. "But I got to do whatever I can to help McCain get right on these issues."

Translation: Keeping his distance.

Actual translation...sabotaging the party.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. Operation Republicans Running As Democrats continues.

So obvious.

[madfloridian]

3. I have tried to warn people about FL Dem leaders....

I don't think many really believed me.

[JoFerret]

6. Is it the heat?

.

[cybildisobedience]

280. No, it's the humidity.

[NotThisTime]

7. Please tell us what the hell it is about Florida???? These last several elections, what's up?

[JoFerret]

30. It's the heat

must make them crazy.

or the oranges.
or something.

[Jane Austin]

47. I have a friend who tried to get active in her local FL Dem party

and the leadership of her local party was dismissive of anything new and anyone new.

She was very discouraged.

I think she began videotaping the meetings the leaders were so awful.

The Obama organization is going to have to go around those types.

[madfloridian]

49. Exactly, nothng new is desired.

We had success for a while in changing things but it takes its toll.

Now it is back to the same old ways again. Until the next time.

[Maria Wr]

200. Sounds more like a clique than a party

Distancing selves from the nominee?
What goes around...

[mac2]

211. What exactly did we change?

[papau]

149. going to have to go around those types" - ? the way it's going around seniors and HillaryVP?

[John Q. Citizen]

196. Just 2 more days to attack our nominee. Better get it in while you can.

[Jane Austin]

254. You're picking on the wrong issue.

The "types" in question were horribly sexist to my friend.

[mac2]

158. This is what Dean did on his "state to state" political

plan. No Progressive Democrats wanted. I want he and Emanuel gone.

[xxqqqzme]

198. Keep up....rahm is dlc & has absolutely

nothing in common w/ Howard Dean. It was rahm who refused any money to progressive candidates (he was head of the DCCC in '06). In fact Emanuel deliberately sought & promoted more 'moderate' candidates to run against progressive candidates. A savvy young friend, in DC on a scholarship in '06, tells non-flattering stories about rahm, his rude & ruthlessness toward progressive candidates.

[mac2]

202. DLC, DNC, DCCC whatever. It's all a group who plotted

to remove Progressive Democrats.

[DaLittle Kitty]

232. Listen to Rush Limbaugh... He is running UNFLATTERING speech fumbles by Obama... Says that Obam is..

cooked without a TELEPROMPTER... Sounded pretty bad... Too late to :think: now... Only "hope" is if Obama picks Edwards for VP... :think:

[The Wizard]

252. Most of Limbaugh's audience is Klan

or skin heads. They wouldn't vote for a man who's only half white anyway.

[DaLittle Kitty]

235. Look @What These Crooks Did to John Russell in 2006... Russell is Running Again After Exposing...

Wasserman-Schultz who now has been widely criticized for not supporting Democrats challenging Diaz-Balart etc. in South Florida. Russell in exposing Wasserman-Schultz Russell now has demonstrated his leadership and willingness to take on and "out" corruption no matter which party its coming from. Check out John at www.johnrussellforcongress.com Ginny is not looking forward to another round with John who has a primary challenger on the Republican side.

This seat is easily the most winnable seat for a Democrat in 2008 in Florida. John has no primary competition that is credible so he is focusing on the general election against Ginny Brown-Waite right now.

John Russell is the leader among progressive candidates this election and if we can put him over the top in Florida's 5th Congressional District he will help straighten out the FDP as well. Remember all you Florida people...

sign up to run as your precinct captain... This is how we rid the Florida Democratic Party of its scum leadership.

Find out who the state committee men and women are in your county and find someone to run against THEM! Sign up is THIS week... SO DO NOT DILLY DALLY! :)

[Richard Steele]

204. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, and thus appear foolish. nm

[mac2]

212. I know one thing. It isn't at all what it should be....

picking a candidate and declaring a winner before the convention. I'm an old fool to know better.

[Richard Steele]

231. Well, there's a lot that isn't what it should be, and that's a certain fact.

But you've been sold a bill of goods if you think Howard Dean
had anything to do with that "Tim Mahoney" bullshit.

That was serial-teen-boy-molestor Foley's seat, and it was OURS for the taking.
And we had a REAL Democrat running for it, pretty much unopposed...

It was Rahm Emanuel and his DLC DINO Squad who pressured the Florida Dem Party
to make the Democratic candidate drop out, and replace him with lifelong Repub Mahoney.

There was no "Dean" involved in that disgusting act of naked betrayal. Whoever told you that
was either badly misinformed, or deliberately lying to you.

[Lerkfish]

218. I"m goint to have to agree with your assessment.

if one does not know the difference between the DLC and the DNC and howard dean, then one is not paying attention.

[bvar22]

220. Low. Information. Voters.

:shrug:

[Zodiak]

228. Don't you love it when they have low information

...but are high on opinions?

When I am not knowledgeable about a subject, I listen first.

[mac2]

260. Aren't you so righteous?

[FatDave]

271. Well, he's definitely right.

There is a struggle going on for control of the party, but Dean and Emmanuel are on opposite sides.

[Zodiak]

227. Dean and Emanuel are political enemies within the Dem party

You should study more about what you are talking about before you spout off opinions.

[mac2]

261. I guess you'd rather we not see their bad qualities and we

lose election after election. I do know what I see and hear in my own state by Progressive candidates who have been ignored for political reasons...more war.

[Zodiak]

277. You did not respond at all to my post

Where did I indicate that I refuse to see their bad qualities? You're pulling that out of your ass. So not only are you low information, you are low on logic and topicality, too.

And you also offered nothing else but some nebulous claim of what you hear in a non-specific state from non-specific candidates that we are to trust a low information voter to describe as progressive when they do not even know the difference between Emanuel and Dean.

Listen, read...then when you post you might be taken more seriously.

[DaLittle Kitty]

230. Can Anyone Say... KAREN THURMAN, ALISON MORANO fer Starters? Wasserman-Shultz et al!?

These people are just there to smoooothe the way for REPUBLICANS! WAKE UP AMERICA! :puke:

[Dr.Phool]

265. I thought it was Lieberman -Schultz.

[populistdriven]

63. Why doesnt that Sandy * weigh in on the Giant Confederate Flag we have at the edge of her town?

TAMPA, Fla., June 4 (UPI) -- The NAACP has nothing good to say about what is believed to be the world's largest Confederate battle flag flying over a Tampa, Fla., freeway junction.

Curtis Stokes, president of the Hillsborough County branch of the nation's oldest civil rights organization told the St. Petersburg Times Wednesday that the Old South banner was "huge and obnoxious."

The flag, which is about the size of a semi-truck trailer, also has plenty of supporters, the newspaper said, including one young woman who called it "gorgeous."

The flag is clearly visible to motorists at the junction of Interstates 4 and 75 and was put up by a member of the Sons of the Confederacy to mark the 200th birthday of Confederate President Jefferson Davis.

County officials say that can't do much about the flag due to freedom of speech protections, but the matter was to be brought up for discussion at Wednesday's County Commission meeting.

[graywarrior]

163. You only believe in if you live there.

[PoliticalAmazon]

207. Mahony sounds delusional. Pelosi owes HIM?.....

I have little patience for Democratic Party politcians who are disloyal. Lieberman did (and continues to do) a lot of damage to the Party, and Mahony has the potential to do the same.

For him to say that he doesn't owe the Dem Party anything is extremely narcissistic, IMO. The Democratic Party provides a lot of support to candidates and, let's face it: if Mahony hadn't run under one of the two major party's banner, he would not have been elected. Since he ran as a Democrat, he DOES owe his position and status to the Democratic Party, and it is churlish at best for him to try to claim that he doesn't owe the Party, the implication being that he got where he is without the Dem Party's help.

[roguevalley]

57. madfloridian, I believed you. Kind of reminds me of our goons.

I hope something can be done. It bothers me to see a state ridiculed like yours has been over the past eight years. Of course, at the root of all evil is a bush. Congrats on getting rid of Jeb when you did, honey. Hugs.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

157. I believe that Jeb was term-limited.

Take it where you can get it, though.

[Joe Chi Minh]

219. I see there is a nice little mutual admiration society on another thread, in which posters

waxed very emotional about the graciousness of the majority of Obama's supporters, and the positiveness of doing everything to bring the party together, as Hillary had so clearly tried to do in her glorious speech.

Here are some excerpts from the Daily Mail reporter's "take" on her valedictory speech today:

"Hillary Clinton was hailed yesterday by victorious Democrat rival Barak Obama for blazing a trail for women in her White House campaign.

Mrs Clinton, 60, showed her support for Mr Obama, 46, on Saturday in a speech to reunite the Democratic Party after bitter months of campaigning. She vowed to work her heart out to help him win November's presidential election against Republican choice, John McCain, 71.

But she arrived 45 minutes late to the speech, wore black (a festive shade, no doubt*), and did not name her rival until 650 words in. There were boos from some of her supporters when she urged them to back Senator Obama."

*My interpolation.

Why they imagine that will have improved the presidential prospects of women, I can't imagine. Rght-wingers thought that about Thatcher. As I mentioned elsewhere, when women get mean, it's visceral. Frankly, Hillary looked so sombre to me, I feared she might pass out. She must have seemed to be glowing radiantly to them. There seems to be a lot of displaced Republicans all right, looking for a home more to their taste than the recently-soured one of their party's incumbent.

[2Design]

2. they are too stupid to hold office - resign and join o'reilly n/t

[Condem]

4. mad

Is this spur of the moment shit or a serious concern? From what I've seen, we're not counting on Florida, anyway. What a true, fucking shame.

[madfloridian]

9. I think in the back of my mind...

it was planned for a long time...there was more to it than we might ever be able to prove.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/2150

[Condem]

16. mad

you truly live in a fucked up state. The funny thing to me is Florida jumping ahead. As if it can represent our country. mad, move to Iowa.

[JoFerret]

5. No need for over excitement

Calm down.
Take a longer view.
No need to go into hysterics.
Keep calm and carry on.

[QC]

12. Jo, the indignation junkies are in desperate need of a fix. That's all.

I suspect they are concerned at how united and peaceful this place is becoming once again, so they are trying to work up one more round of outrage.

[madfloridian]

13. It doesn't bother you that two major FL Dems are working against Obama

and the party? Why not?

[JoFerret]

29. Out with the wooden spoon

turn up the heat.

Actually - what does bother me more than a few crazy Floridians - is the generational tin ears of some Obama supporters. I think serious thinking has to be done there. We do have a real chance at a landslide victory in November if we can work together.

[sakura]

61. What exactly is a "generational tin ear"?

Will you please elaborate, and give examples of how Obama supporters have demonstrated this? Thanks in advance.

[MaraJade]

68. When one of them said that

they weren't voting for Hillary because "she reminds me of my mother," that said it all.

[ekwhite]

174. I see. "One of them" said that.

That is an induction failure. One can't take that one example to generalize all Obama supporters. That post was obnoxious, but you can't generalize from that post any more than I can use an obnoxious post by a Clinton supporter to generalize about all Clinton supporters.

[JoFerret]

141. There's actually something in

"Dreams from my Father" that illustrates what I mean. Have you read it? It's nicely written.

Is it the concept you don't get? Or are you challenging the notion that it is accurate reflection of simplistic and dismissive thinking in aspects of the campaign to date? (And please note that words "aspects".)

[sakura]

241. I haven't read "Dreams of My Father" yet, though I'm planning to.

There's a long waiting list for it at the library. I simply don't understand what you mean by "generational tin ear", so I think it's fair to say that I not only don't "get the concept," but that I really don't know what you're talking about. But I'd like to, and that's why I asked. I'm not challenging anything, yet, and can't speak to whether or not it accurately relects aspects of the campaign until I know what you mean by it. A tin ear in music means you can't hear the subtleties of a melody to the point where you can't even sing a song you've heard. (My son, sadly, seems to have a tin ear.) Are you saying that Obama supporters, in some cases/aspects can't hear the subtleties of Clinton supporters arguments, or something quite different?

[JoFerret]

269. I don't want to over simplify or generalize

But i don't think Obama actually understands the generation that came before him. That's understandable. But i don't think he has a very broad picture of that.

Many of his supporters definitely do not.

Maybe cloth ear is more accurate than tin ear.

They have been fed stereotypes and sound morsels by the media and think that's all there is.

[sakura]

272. Hmm... I can't really respond to what Obama thinks...

... as I haven't read the book. And it's hard to respond to your other assertion, as I'm not sure what generation you belong to. Chances are you're not "greatest generation," as those numbers are dwindling quickly. You might belong to my mom's generation (the "forgotten generation") or you might be a baby boomer. If the latter is true, I'm confused, as Obama is (supposedly) part of that generation.

I think, though, that it's the term 'generation' that is causing the problem here, because of the sweeping generalizations that come with that term, and the way that the media has attempted to explain every major happening of the last 60 or so years in terms of the bulge in our nation's population graph. It's silly to think that a person born in 1946 has more in common with a person born in 1959 than with a person born in 1942, like my mom. She identifies strongly with Hillary, even though she and Clinton are from supposedly distinct generations. And why shouldn't she? They're only a couple of years apart in age, and the events they've experienced at key times in their lives has been very similar.

Likewise, I would guess that Obama has more in common with me (I was born in 1966) than with someone born in 1950. Demographics may be useful tools to predict things on a gross scale, like voting patterns or buying patterns, but they tend to be used incorrectly-- to stereotype people and to make sweeping generalizations that really aren't warranted. And of course, this has been going on for years. When I got out of college there was article after article about the laziness and shiftlessness of recent grads-- the cynical generation Xers. The generation they described wasn't true of me or anyone I knew. Nonetheless, my generation was stereotyped as such and the description stuck. Likewise, I have met very, very few people of the baby boom generation who actually lived in Haight Ashbury (I'm on the west coast, so that shouldn't be too tall an order), who attended Woodstock (I grew up on the east coast, so again, you'd think I would have run into some of them) or who lived as hippies. Certainly some did, but it wasn't everyone born within a twenty year span. Again, a large group of people has been stereotyped.

So maybe misunderstanding between Obama supporters (the younger ones, anyway) and Hillary supporters (the older ones, anyway) has a lot to do with these simplistic overgeneralizations. I would suggest, though, that the misunderstanding goes both ways. I'd be very interested to hear some of the mischaracterizations that have been made about your group, as well as the appropriate characterizations that should take their place. In turn, I'd hope you'd be interested in hearing the mischaracterizations that have been made about this side of the fence. Correcting misunderstandings would seem to be the best way to get past all this.



:) Cheers!

[JoFerret]

273. I base the remark on his book

.

[Dr.Phool]

124. It's not a few crazy people. It's damned near the whole state party.

And in most County DEC's, they're absolutely worse than useless. I can relate a lot of stories first-hand where the state and local parties have actively undermined progressive candidates.

Here's one from a couple of weeks ago that happened at a small fundraising party for a statehouse candidate. A friend of mine, who has been active in Democratic politics for over 30 years up north, before he moved down here 6 years ago and got active here attended. He ran several successful campaigns up there, and I've worked a few campaigns with him down here.

The party leadership, at the local and state level have a conflict with congressional candidate here, because they undermined his campaign in 2006 after he had the audacity to beat the hand-picked, conservative Democrat in the primary. I know what happened from personal experience, because I was his Deputy Campaign Manager. My friend mentioned the candidates name and he said "You'd have thought I mentioned Satan"! They started squawking and pissing and moaning that they won't support him, and will in fact vote for the slimeball Republican incumbent. One who said this was the County Chair!

My friend said, "You call yourselves Democrats? Can I get you all on tape saying this? This guy is right, on all the issues, and you're going to vote against him"?

You actually have members of this County DEC that donate money to Republicans, in a race where there is a Dem running against them! You had one lawyer who wanted to censure a member for donating to repukes, and they harassed him right out of the DEC.

The only thing Madfloridian is guilty of, is gross understatement. I could tell you tales that would make you puke.

[JoFerret]

199. Sounds like the party needs the members

and the new leadership to clear things out.

When you are up to your ears in alligators....etc.

[SaveAmerica]

160. JoePapConDance, Do you guys think this is a game? I assure you it's not

We had 2 General Elections in a row that were so close they were easy to steal. Since then we have seen the Democratic Party try to implement a 50 state strategy that would make it clear by many many votes that our candidate is the winner and make it hard/impossible to steal. Florida is one of those 50 states. Madfloridian is someone who wants to make sure all Democrats in her state are working to get the Democratic candidate into office. This is all we've been doing this primary and now election season; assessing and evaluating the candidates and making sure we are working toward doing the best we can to win in November.

You should be standing behind a Democrat who is trying to ensure Democrats in her state are working to get our Democratic candidate into office. It is not being dramatic to see that this happens, this is what we're here at DU for; fighting to get Democratic candidates into office. I think you don't see the irony of your comment about us having "a real chance at a landslide victory in November if we can work together".

[madfloridian]

32. I have never been called an "indignation junkie" before. Has a ring to it.

:evilgrin:

[JoFerret]

34. Makes me think of the anger emoticon

Always and perpetually dancing up and down in fruitless rage.

[Olney Blue]

8. This is insane to not endorse Obama.

What else can be done? We have to have Florida.

[Condem]

10. No we don't, Olney

Since when?

[Olney Blue]

14. Since now- losing is not an option and we need every battleground state!

[Condem]

18. There are others, Olney. Relax.

[Olney Blue]

31. I won't relax until we have the WH again.

It's not in my nature. :hi:

[Condem]

33. Can't argue with that, Olney.

Behind you, 100%.

[mac2]

206. Then why do we allow such candidates to win?

We should have won 2000 to now. The party leadership screws up every time. Now this Florida and Michigan crap. A candidate such as Obama with little experience and is a New Democrat (not a Progressive) who supports amnesty. Now that's a good why to lose.

[MaraJade]

67. Until PROVEN otherwise, it is insane to

endorse Obama. Period.

[Jim Sagle]

96. ?

[ut oh]

247. You should really go back to your Republican forums then....

Insane to endorse Obama?

Step away from the crack... It's really not helping you...

[The Wizard]

253. Define proven otherwise (NT)

[rodeodance]

11. Oh the sky is falling. But you want Hillary to the rescue!!

[madfloridian]

15. I guess you think it is fine for major FL dems to sabotage Obama.

I don't.

[rodeodance]

53. sabotage?? oh the drame.

[madfloridian]

58. I tried. I really tried....

list updating.

[JoFerret]

140. You need a more powerful tool

.

[L0oniX]

215. Ignored just got off of a suspendion and obviously has not learned.

:eyes:

[merh]

24. LOL - not to the rescue

to do what is right by the party, for the party. You guys want her to feel special and be respected let her actually earn it as the uniter you say she is, as the leader you say she is.

What's wrong with asking her to do the right thing?

She does care about the party and the nation, yes? If so, this should be a no brainer and nothing you ardent supporters should have a problem with. You should be behind her all the way.

[MarjorieG]

17. Let's not count on FL. May be a GOP state, Crist, Bush, and going where power is.

Also, Hillary planned to dispute FL, all the way back when other candidates assumed they were in sync.

(sp)

[madfloridian]

20. I don't think the DNC is counting on Florida to win.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/061015/23west_print.htm

"Add it all up, and Democrats hope a new day is dawning. "We intend to contest Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, and Nevada as a unit next time in the presidential because we think we can win there," Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean told U.S. News. Dean's theory is that, with a combined total of 29 electoral votes, those four states would make it unnecessary for the Democrats to win Florida, with 27 electoral votes, which they have lost in the last two down-to-the-wire presidential elections. "Bill Clinton won every single one of those states at one time or another," Dean added.

Big brother. Dean said the key to the Democratic resurgence lies in what he sees as the rightward, interventionist shift of the national GOP. "The Republican Party has become the big-brother party, and this is a very libertarian part of the country. ... Westerners don't believe it's the government's place to tell them what to do with their personal lives, and this is a government that specializes in telling people what to do in their personal lives."

[populistdriven]

64. this state disgusts me infinitely

[mac2]

210. Ya...give Dean another chance to lose us an election.

You can't win one state, one time or another. You must win them all now.

[bvar22]

246. ?

Are you are truly THAT uninformed, or are you here to catapult the lies and propaganda?

Howard Dean, as chair of the DNC is chiefly responsible for the Democratic landslide in 2006.

Maybe you have him confused with DLC clown Terry McAuliff who chaired the DNC until 2005, and is notable only for losing elections. Chalk up another loss for McAuliff...He worked for Hillary.

[Carrieyazel]

48. Florida is gone. This election cycle anyway. Other states are winnable.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

78. Hmmm...starting to notice a trend to your posts.

:crazy:

[madfloridian]

81. An obvious trend....attack Obama.

[Kool Kitty]

82. And what do the rest of us work with, our feet?

[ima_sinnic]

129. what an infinitessimally small little mind you have (nt)

[workinclasszero]

WTF?

Whay do you keep attacking the democratic nominee for President?

You got someone else better in mind?

[myrna minx]

145. Minnesota went for Obama handily, but our miners

on the Iron Range and our farmers are effete, latte drinkers, you know. :eyes:

[Divernan]

146. You obviously know nothing about Pennsylvania!

The steel mills are long gone. The population centers of Phillie and Pittsburgh are about university and medical centers; computer/high tech industries, etc., and these populations will carry the state for Obama.

[mac2]

168. Didn't PA go for Hillary?

[a la izquierda]

151. oh lord.

get over yourself.
My sister lives in Scranton. Has for years. When the time comes, PA will go for Obama. Many Pennsylvanians work with they're hands and they're most certainly NOT stupid: they know he will defend they're interests.

Are you part of the crew posting all the negative stuff about "BHO" on Clinton's website?? OOOhhh I think I found you!!:eyes:

[Diane R]

19. This is Hillary Clinton's legacy.

[madfloridian]

22. Yes, and I have to live in the middle of it.

Not a single DFA friend or DEC friend has said a word about Obama. There is just silence, just as there has been for months.

[petwlkr]

216. I can certainly relate to your angst

I lived in Florida for almost 30 years, half of that in the South Palm Beach/North Broward county area. I watched the state slowly disintegrate in more ways than one. After the show down in Palm Beach during the 2000 elections I'd had enough. Within 6 months I had sold my business and my belongings, said gbye to friends and family, threw my dog in the car and headed to Seattle. I don't envy anyone who is still there. The general populace (present company excluded of course) seems to have lost their ever loving minds. Good luck and thanks for keeping us all updated on the situation there.

:kick:

[madfloridian]

236. Must be something in the water....

Things are different here for sure. :hi:

Welcome to DU.

[guruoo]

51. ROTFLMAO!

:rofl:

[MadMaddie]

21. Perhaps this was their plan all along...they claim they were

Hillary supporters but maybe their plan was to undermine her if she were the nominee...

Sheep in wolves skin....as the saying goes....

[mac2]

159. Republicans in wolves clothing.

Your are right. This Presidential election was stolen during the primary. Only Obama was allowed to win. The bashing against Hillary was just so crazy. Every Progressive Democrat was pushed to resign for the "sake of the party".

I don't blame the FL and MI party members for being angry. The whole thing was set up to fail. Not only Dems from MI and FL are angry but like myself many around the country. Are they always trying to lose for Republican globalist win? PNAC goes forward. It's very dangerous and our country is to be pillaged and destroyed. They hate our way of life and freedoms. Oh I forgot that was Bin Laden or was it?

The cry for "change and unity" won't work this time. Too many plots and games by the DLC and Dean.

The fact that the Bilderberg Group met near DC says they arrogantly celebrated their win and are the "secret government". It is illegal yet they were allowed to meet on American soil. Shame on the state of Virginia and the town of Chantilly...State Department. Condi where is your oath of office?

[Joe Chi Minh]

221. It was stolen from Edwards. No two ways about it. they'd wanted Hillary,

but Obama's following is too great.

[mac2]

262. And too wealthy.

The press was behind him even here in Chicago with the Chicago Tribune (conservative newspaper).

[anonymous171]

23. I'll say it again: I can't wait until we are able to turn TX blue.

I'm looking forward to a day where democrats don't have to bow to the FL state party.

[madfloridian]

26. And I say amen.

:hi:

[Pushed To The Left]

25. Are these LieberCrats up for re-election this year?

If so, it might be a good time for a primary challenge. Only problem is that these LieberCrats might try to pull a third-party stunt a la Lieberman.

[madfloridian]

28. There was a Democrat running against Mahoney...the DCCC pushed them out.

And got Mahoney the millionaire Republican to run with their support.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1427

And now that choice is coming back to bite the party in the ass.

[Jane Austin]

41. I remember that.

If we're going to make big gains, maybe we could sacrifice Mahoney.

[mac2]

161. This type of Republican recruiting for public office happened in IL

also. Progressives were ignored and unfunded. Only pro-war and globalization candidates allowed by our party leaders.

[Dr.Phool]

125. Too late to mount a primary challenge.

Federal qualifying in Florida closed a month ago. And down here Mickey Mouse gets so many votes that you have to file as a write-in candidate by the qualifying date, otherwise the votes don't count.

[BlooInBloo]

27. Anybody not supporting the Democratic Nominee needs to be targeted for primary challenge.

[iconicgnom]

52. absolutely.

[MaraJade]

70. That will be a real help!

So someone who supports Hillary because of her support of working stiffs is to be challenged
and removed because elitist college-educated people want them out.

Yes. Right.

[madfloridian]

83. Your posts are attack posts. "elistist college-educated"

It is pretty obvious.

[MaraJade]

94. I'm college-educated. . .

but I believe that common sense is not common. And you cannot get common sense out of any college class.
Respect and genuine caring about others cannot be taught in classes. People who don't care about the concerns of
their own parents and older folks are fools, as are people who think that blue collar workers aren't worth a damn. You
must absolutely insist on justice for others, even those you don't agree with or life isn't worth living.

The problem entire with the current situation is that Obama and his followers now feel free to IGNORE those who
disagree. He DOESN'T have a mandate, but his followers think that he does, even though HALF of the Democratic Party
disagrees. What hubris. But I've seen the same vainglory and "I know it all" attitude in my teenage daughter. You all
know what's best for us all.

I smell revolution in the wind. . .

[madfloridian]

95. I smell "revolting" rhetoric.

You really feel persecuted.

[MaraJade]

99. You have a serious problem.

Your rudeness says it all. You cannot disagree without being disagreeable, a sure sign of immaturity.
Wiser people than me have counseled that one should not "respond to a fool according to
his foolishness." I will take that wise counsel to heart.

But, a word of advice. I have it on very good and solid guidance that people should prepare for hard times this winter.
Take this or leave it as you will.

[workinclasszero]

133. Yeah Hillary cares so much for the working class she helped

ram NAFTA down our throats! What a f'n joke! I do agree about the revolution though.

Obama started it and leads it and it won't stop until all DLC corporate whores like Bill and Hillary Clinton are driven out of the party!

[Divernan]

147. Pushing a third party on Democratic Underground? Very interesting

But since you remain such a hardcore HRC supporter, perhaps you can address this issue.

Was the notion of "family values" why some white women supported HRC? Family values does not translate to staying with a husband who blatantly philandered throughout one's marriage (And as an aside, feminist values do not include modeling for your daughter/child that it's OK if your husband publicly cheats on you as long as you get to be Mrs. Governor or Mrs. President. Is that how you're raising your teenage daughter?)

The "family values" of the Clintons translates into market value/bank balances. As another poster recently pointed out, Chelsea Clinton has never done a single thing for any Democrat other than her parents. As a dutiful daughter, she reflected her parents' TRUE values by parlaying her parents' connections into a lucrative career as a hedge fund trader - with not one single year given to public service/Peace Corps/ military service/working in inner city poverty programs/etc. My god, EACH of the Bush twins has performed more public service than Chelsea. Chelsea also reflected her parents belief in lying when she backed up her mother's claim re Tuzla sniper fire.
In the US, everyone is free to pursue the big bucks - but let's take a hard look at what family values this young woman was taught at her mother's knee.

[mac2]

162. Pushing for our party to be for the worker and our Constitution, Bill of Rights, borders,etc.

Is not disloyalty to the party. We want it and our democracy back.

[DaLittle Kitty]

238. AGREED... WELL PUT... AGREED!

What IS Wrong w/ these foolish people/women? :think:

[a la izquierda]

153. If you're college educated...

and you smell revolution, did you fail your history and political science classes?

HRC is about the last person who would start a revolution, unless it's a revolution to protect the status quo, which...you get my drift? If you want to know what starts revolutions, PM me. I work on Latin America. They have revolutions. This ain't no revolution.
Sorry, not trying to pick solely on you, but your logic is so faulty I would give you an F. Sorry.

Stop feeling so personally smoted (smoted? smitten? I don't know). Act a little like Mrs. Clinton and accept the situation with grace and poise. Nothing can change this now; fortunately you're not having a tantrum, otherwise there are plenty of people here, as you know, to send you packing.

[mac2]

166. Don't blame college on the fact that the elite few are

destroying democracy. Nazis hated the educated. The educated college classes made America great (public educated Vets,etc.). They are our professionals who are also feeling their world go off-shore, systems destroyed, etc.

Blame the arrogant and power hungry elites. Rove doesn't even have a college degree. He's no working class common sense dude.

Teenagers are very "know it all" until they grow up. Wait and see. You will end up being the wise one.

Signed: College educated at night university. My family think I'm very sensible.

[chknltl]

233. You are college educated????? WassamattaU????

"but I believe that common sense is not common." Apparently! Common sense dictates that attacking supporters of the democratic nominee in the Democratic Underground will produce exactly WHAT? Debate is one thing but this is borderline trollish. Are you DELIBERATELY trying to be divisive?

"And you cannot get common sense out of any college class." Are you trying to say college students can't be counted on to think for themselves???

"Respect and genuine caring about others cannot be taught in classes." Why not? Open mindedness is a hard lesson to learn among close minded groups. Oftentimes family units and isolated church groups can foster just the opposite of respect and caring for ALL! Do you really think Archie Bunker was into teaching caring about others for instance? What about Pastor Hagee? Getting out into the world, mixing with others is a GREAT place to learn values that oftentimes are not learn-able at home. College is MORE than just a place to learn the classes being taught. I hope you are not one of those who rails against colleges because they aren't teaching America's students such things as religious values! I've a republican precinct commander friend who believes colleges are what is WRONG with America! Please tell me you aren't so silly!

"People who don't care about the concerns of their own parents and older folks are fools,...." Yes of course, so who are those people? Are you saying that just because we support Sen. Obama that we are this way???!!!-I am not sure what kind of close minded ass could think such thoughts and I hope you are not suggesting this.

" ...as are people who think that blue collar workers aren't worth a damn." So WHO exactly are THESE people? Are you saying that people who don't think like you and support the candidates you support fall into this category? Historically we Dems have cared tremendously about the middle class which includes of course, blue collar workers. Are you suggesting that supporters of Senator Obama who is calling for middle class tax cuts, (among other things beneficial to the middle class), is ignoring the blue collar workers with those tax cuts?

"You must absolutely insist on justice for others, even those you don't agree with or life isn't worth living." OK, a personal philosophy about what makes life worth living...I agree that justice for all is important but I think my life is worth living even though there are plenty of injustices worldwide. To each their own.

"The problem entire with the current situation is that Obama and his followers now feel free to IGNORE those who disagree." So what does this make me-yesterday's ham sandwich??? If you mistake Obama supporting DUers choosing to ignore your deliberate divisive anger...that would be more close to the truth. I suppose I could join them but this post by you was tooooo much for me and needed adressing imo.

"He DOESN'T have a mandate, but his followers think that he does, even though HALF of the Democratic Party disagrees." Really, so why not join the two sides, (if they be as divided as you would have us believe), and give our Democratic nominee the very mandate you must surely agree needs to be in place? How is being deliberately divisiveness helping to foster this mandate? Can you see how YOU are being counterproductive by being divisive?

"What hubris." Yep! Exactly! Right back at ya!

"But I've seen the same vainglory and "I know it all" attitude in my teenage daughter. You all
know what's best for us all." And again: Yep! It is not up to me to tell you how to raise your daughter but it is pretty obvious where she gets her attitude of 'knowing it all'. (Sorry perhaps unfair, but YOU ARE throwing what could be called a typical teenage tantrum... "I know what is best, why doesn't everyone see things my way? 'I will spew forth hate and vile things because I am not getting my way and I'll be damned if I will listen to the voice of reason when it comes from those who disagree with me because they are just plain WRONG!' (Resemble anyone???)

"I smell revolution in the wind. . ." Well we can only hope!!! Taking our nation, our democracy back from the corporatists who destroy both is a revolution...a 'We The Peoples Revolution'. You are welcome to join in if you like. Believe it or not we fight for the SAME things: America's democracy and the middle class. Well I hope you feel those things are worth fighting for!

[The Wizard]

255. The school that

granted you a degree owes you a refund.

[Chulanowa]

123. You do realize Senator Clinton is no longer in the presidential running

and has fully endorsed Senator Obama... right?

I mean it was kind of all over the news, and we spent a whole day lauding her for it here on DU... Like... yesterday. Ages ago I know, but there you have it...

[ima_sinnic]

130. her "support" of "working stiffs"? is everyone as gullible as you?

since when is NAFTA and being the Senator from Punjab "supportive" of "working stiffs"? Since when do millionaire DLCers (read: republican Democrats) support working people? They couldn't care less about them. It is those CEOs and corporate perks they really care about.

Hillary said what you wanted to hear, and you lapped it up. But--NEWS FLASH--Hillary is not even the candidate. You don't know it yet, but Obama is far more concerned about "working stiffs" than Hillary could ever pretend to be.

[mac2]

169. Hillary and Obama are both globalists and don't give a

crap about the working classes or they would not have supported trade deals.

[truebrit71]

182. No, someone who does NOT support the Dem nominee in the Presidential election gets a quick lesson..

...in the concept of party unity.

Won't support the Dem nominee over the GOP nominee?

GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

See? Simple.

[Dr.Phool]

126. See post #125 above.

[Beregond2]

35. Sandy Freedman should be ashamed of herself.

If she actually believes that women are more victimized than black people in this country she is a moron. If she has a clue about reality and is just saying this to push her own agenda, she is evil. Either way, she shouldn't be holding office.

[madfloridian]

37. She's a former mayor, but carries clout. Well-known.

Pam Iorio is the mayor now, and she endorsed Obama at his rally in Tampa.

Freedman is a well-known name in FL, and you are right...she should be ashamed.

[Joe Chi Minh]

223. Maybe she's right. Maybe the black woman who had been lynched, in the old photo

I saw on here recently was lynched for beng a woman, and not for being black. Old habits die hard, eh? Hillary must have had a lucky escape. Thank goodness for the Civil Rights movement of the sixties!

[Triana]

36. If they can blame sexism then they don't have to ADMIT that...

Hillary.

Just.

Failed. Period.

Undoubtedly Hillary endured sexism and Obama racism, at times from each other - but NO WAY is that why one of them won and the other lost. It was all about how their campaigns were run and little else, in the end.

BUT - if these numbskulls need something to BLAME for her loss besides Hillary herself (or the way the campaign was run) the it's easy to claim 'sexism' because she was a woman.

If Obama lost does anyone think he would be crying 'racism' as a cause of that? Would his supporters? And if they did, would he not stop them? I bet he would.

Hillary does need to have a conversation with these people. HOWEVER, in order to DO that she would have to be willing to admit to HERSELF as well as THEM that she lost simply because she didn't run as good a campaign as Obama. Nothing to be ashamed of, it happens to politicians all the time. Males mostly. And, yep, females too. My guess is that she will neither be able or willing to do that.

I HOPE I'M WRONG. I REALLY hope I'm WRONG.

[madfloridian]

38. Freedman attacked him another time....Obama that is.

"•Former Tampa Mayor Sandy Freedman, a committed Democrat and Hillary Clinton supporter: The bitter primary race has angered women voters, the party's backbone.

"I think he's going to have a hard time winning Florida. There are a lot of very angry people, women in particular, who are unhappy about the sexism of this campaign and will find it hard to vote for him...

"John McCain's supporters are going to paint him - the swiftboating of John Kerry was nothing compared to what we'll see."

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jun/04/na-florida-may-be-tough-challenge-for-obama/

The media is having a field day with Democrats like her, like Geller, like Ausman and Mahoney.

[Jane Austin]

39. John Dean?

Maybe she means Howard Dean. Maybe she was drinking while posting.

[madfloridian]

42. Ha Ha...just caught that.

Yeh, I think she meant Howard. I would to have the full interview, not just a summary.

[papapi]

40. I'd say Hillary Clinton has a lot of work to do between now and November.

All I get is Hillary trying to blame someone else for her own failings.

[MaraJade]

71. She doesn't have to do a DAMN thing. Obama DOES.

He's the empty suit. She's not. Let him prove who he is.

[Major Hogwash]

143. He's not an empty suit and the more you post here saying that shit causes more division.

So, stop saying it.

[Joe Chi Minh]

225. No, that kind of vapid attack shouldn't be taken seriously. Hillary's

supporters have much more to fear about adverse criticism of her - and much more to lose, if the impossible happened and Mcain won. They'll have a lot more to lose.

[madrchsod]

152. enjoy your stay......

because it`s not going to be very long

[truebrit71]

189. He already has...that's why he won the nomination...Duh...

:crazy:

[mac2]

205. With the help of the "rules" and party leadership...media.

He hasn't proven himself to many in the end. He has yet to have a real goal except "change and hope". You can't feed your family on that. He should have been a minister.

[truebrit71]

209. Yup those "rules"....the ones ALL the candidates agreed to? Darned shame...

...get it out of your system while you still can...that kind of denial and angst is detrimental to your health...

[mac2]

213. I don't care what the Senators agree on.

We party members didn't. It's also bad for our democracy. Rules for voting at certain times by only certain states (mostly conservative ones), harrassing the candidates to drop out for the "sake of the party" before the convention, using Super Delegates (many out of power or unelected), and just making the convention a pep rally. Whose going to get over that?

[truebrit71]

229. Are you new to American politics,or just naive?

...because you're speaking as though you know very little about history or process...

[mac2]

263. Or corruption within the party?

I know the DNC procedure from the past. I am old enough to know a stolen/manipulated primary when I see one. I've been voting for over 60 years.

Here in Illinois I know a very well qualified Progressive who would make a great Congress woman. She told me all the money and support was behind the "Republican Democrat" by the party leaders in the state. I'm well aware of the "process". It stinks to high "globalism".

[truebrit71]

275. The congressional dems are funded directly by the DCCC no? Who ran that recently? Rahm Emanuel..

...a well-known DLC-centrist..THAT'S why true progressives' don't get in and instead we have people like Tammy Duckworth and Melissa Bean (:puke:)

Howard Dean and the DNC have done as a great service and finally broken the stranglehold of the DINO's that had almost succeeded in destroying this party...

[bvar22]

248. Nope. Obama now has a "track record" as leader of the Democratic Party.

Since Obama was nominated, he has:

1) Thrown the Corporate Lobbyists OUT of the DNC

2) Endorsed Howard Dean as chair of the DNC, and endorsed the 50-State strategy as the keystone of the DNC. NO Democrats will be abandonned.


Pretty fucking awesome so far.

[iconicgnom]

257. Obama already has proven who he is. And, unfortunately, so have you.

[hfojvt]

43. it's not all Florida though

Nancy Boyda of Kansas was written in my local paper that she is distancing herself from the party - not endorsing anybody and probably not gonna goto the convention. Because of our divisiveness and seeming lack of accomplishments by Congress that Democrats in conservative districts are running away from the party. She also though, is a Republican turned Democrat.

[madfloridian]

44. I never thought she would be fearful.

I guess we will never know if she could get re-elected standing up for her party. :shrug:

That's sad.

[madfloridian]

45. Isn't Boyda a Blue Dog? Many of them are not endorsing. List of other Blue Dogs

I am trying to figure out why. Mahoney and Allen Boyd of FL, and I am trying to check on others.

Here is the list, from a few days ago from Demconwatch...Not all are Blue Dogs, but many are. Wonder why?

Representatives
Bud Cramer (AL)
Nancy Pelosi (CA)
Mike Honda (CA)
Allen Boyd (FL)*
Tim Mahoney (FL)*
Jim Marshall (GA)
Nancy Boyda (KS)
Charlie Melancon (LA)
Don Cazayoux (LA)
Steny Hoyer (MD)
Niki Tsongas (MA)
John Tierney (MA)
Edward Markey (MA)
Collin Peterson (MN)
Gene Taylor (MS)
Rep. Travis Childers (MS)
Rep. Bob Etheridge (NC)
Rep. Mike McIntyre (NC)
Charlie Wilson (OH)
Marcia Kaptur (OH)
Rep. Zack Space (OH)
Rep. Dennis Kucinich (OH)
Rep. Dan Boren (OK)
Jason Altmire (PA)
Tim Holden (PA)
Lincoln Davis (TN)
Bart Gordon (TN)
Nick Lampson (TX)
Jim Matheson (UT)

[SoxFan]

50. The majority of Blue Dogs have endorsed Obama

Some of them-Patrick Murphy, Artur Davis, Jim Cooper-were with him very early on in the primary process.

Looking at your list, I see a fee Blue Dogs, but also a number of people who can in no way, shape, or form be categorized as Blue Dogs. Some are former Hillary supporters (Honda) some are part of House leadership (Pelosi, Hoyer), and others are from places with weird local political issues (Tsongas, Markey, and Tierney all are dealing with a state party that is split between the Patrick, Kerry, and Kennedy organizations on one side, and the Sal DiMasi/Teresa Murray/Tom Menino macines on the other).

[Carrieyazel]

46. Barack needs to get out of Florida and forget about it.

Put his efforts into states that he CAN win. Time spent in FL, whether its him or his surrogates is time wasted.

[faithfulcitizen]

54. Sounds like a great idea. Focus on western and a few southern states.

[thewiseguy]

65. Thank god that you are not his advisor.

[MaraJade]

72. Problem is that his advisors are young, callow people like this. . .

They think that they owe nothing to older or working people like me. That will bury them.

[EFerrari]

75. How do you know how they think?

Do you even know who his advisors are?

lol

[MaraJade]

106. Got a teen daughter of voting age

--am a Mom who knows how younger people under age 30 think. Been there, done that, dealt
with them.

[EFerrari]

193. Teenagers may be advising you, but they're not advising

Barack Obama


http://www.barackobama.com/2007/05/10/obama_taps_influential_foreign.php

[pdxmom]

55. Someone needs to give Ms. Freedman a dictionary. She calls the

sexism she saw in this campaign both "blatant" and "covert and insidious". It can't be both. She is so wrapped up in getting her hate out there that she contradicts herself within her statements.

I believe that the media definitely engaged in sexism in this campaign and it was blatant. And I also believe there has been racism in this campaign, most of which was covert and insidious. I'll take the obvious over the hidden. At least when it's obvious, you know what you're fighting against.

[madfloridian]

59. Ha Ha...another thing I missed.

Someone just pointed out she called Howard Dean John Dean.

[MaraJade]

105. She is a fool for complaining. . .

She should stop crying like a baby and get into lockstep for Obama.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

56. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Alcee Hastings need to GO!!! n/t

[fortyfeetunder]

60. They have to look forward not the past, as Sen. Clinton said.

I agree with Hillary. We have to prevent the past 8 years from recurring again.

Florida voters, vote Democratic. I regret the outcome of your primary election and wish I could have made it right. But we have a bigger picture. We see a potential continuation of failed policies should we vote Republican.

Maybe your votes were discounted in the primary but they count on November 4. Please support Sen. Obama's campaign!

[MaraJade]

73. The point is that they WERE DISCOUNTED

or else Hillary would be the nominee right now.

[DonCoquixote]

118. Not really

Obama managed to win enough states that he did not need Florida to be the Nominee, unless you somehow believe that if Hillary was granted Florida, every state, like the Carolinas or the Oregons or the Texans, would have moved lock-step and crowned Hillary. Florida was not enough to win the nomination, even if every single delegate had counted.

And do you really think McCain will listen more to the needs of blue collar, older voters? Not when the GOP has him on a leash, and someone who has lived through Reagan and Bush should know that.

[mac2]

176. That means forget about all the crap they did to us?

911, Katrina, Iraq, and our national debt for unending war?

When did we hear this last? Emm...2000 after the "not so close" election?

[madfloridian]

62. Comments from Obama's campaign about Mahoney and Boyd refusing to endorse.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking_news/story/560918.html

"It's disappointing that people who have received a lot of help from the Democratic Party would not support Barack Obama,'' said Kirk Wagar, Obama's finance chairman in Florida. ``I wrote Tim one of his first checks, so I am personally a little disappointed. I'd be interested to know on which issues he disagrees with Sen. Obama."

Which segues nicely into the following point: One of Mahoney's centerpiece bills, quite dear to his insurance-weary constituents, would create a national pool to serve as a backstop in a devastating hurricane. Obama supports it. McCain does not.

But when the Obama campaign slammed McCain on the bill this week, only co-sponsor Ron Klein of Boca Raton got on the horn with reporters. Mahoney -- and the voice of his constituents -- was missing.

Following my inquiry about the call, his office sent out a press release chiding McCain for not grasping ''the impending danger'' and praising Obama for understanding ''the need and urgency'' of the insurance crisis.

The other Democratic elected official in Florida refusing to join the parade is U.S. Rep. Allen Boyd, who represents conservative North Florida. Mahoney and Boyd are among about 16 members of the Blue Dog Coalition in the House who have yet to endorse, according to Congressional Quarterly.

16 Blue Dogs refuse to stand with the nominee.

There should be consequences.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

79. LOL....step away from the keyboard.

:rofl:

[MaraJade]

114. I AM a JOKE, am I not. . .

as are all Clinton supporters. We are one and all, each and every, JOKES to Obama people.

I am kicking this so that people can see what you all actually think of us.

[canucksawbones]

142. actually..

most Clinton supporters are really quite fantastic. Ultimately the vast majority have come around, and although disappointed that their candidate didn't win, they are rallying behind the presumptive nominee.

You, however, do seem to be somewhat of a joke. You paint a large coalition of younger people with a broad brush because you have "experience" with a teenage daughter. You continue to call Obama an empty suit without any sort of evidence (while the opposing evidence has been shown in vast amounts, I suggest you have a look at Frenchiecats well documented list of Obama's accomplishments)

I'm sorry you feel so hard done by, but the race was run, only one can win, and ultimately that is what happened. Now is the time to bite down and support the nominee who is going to deliver what is best for your country and that is not John McCain. Anything less than supporting the Democratic nominee is suicide. The US can't afford 4 more years of neoconservatism, as it is it is going to take a generation of political change to fix things and to accomplish that the party needs a groundswell of new supporters to carry the party through the next 20+ years, those new young voters that you dismissed earlier are exactly the people who will become lifetime Democratic supporters. Obama, fortunately for the Democratic Party has coattails that are long enough to keep delivering for many years after he leaves office.

GK

[LaurenG]

197. You are a disrupting the board, you may be a nice person

in real life but you are grasping at straws and accusing others of ignoring a whole segment of society.

My perception of this is you are upset and have your reasons but they are not things I agree with.

Why don't you just tell everyone what you really want? What do you need to hear in order to understand that though we don't agree on every issue, most democrats want a democratic victory.

[Forkboy]

201. LOL...not all Hillary supporters...just you.

And I'm kicking this so people can see the melodrama. :rofl:

[Raineyb]

242. Are you using the royal "we?"

Even I, who is ready to chuck my senator because I so despise the campaign she's run, don't think all Clinton supporters are a joke.

The ones who come up with lame ass excuses as to why they won't vote for Obama... I just can't take you seriously. Your arguments make no sense.

Regards

[iconicgnom]

259. Well, you sure are a grade-A sniveller!

[madfloridian]

89. Your posts are ......

scary.

[MaraJade]

108. Older folks like me are generally

frightening to people like you. . .

[Dr.Phool]

127. I think you're losing it.

Just for your info, Madfloridian is retired. As am I.

Us youngin's got too much time on our hands.

[madfloridian]

266. Ha Ha

Us youngins..I am amazed and flattered that I am considered younger than I am. :hi:

[madrchsod]

268. let`s just sit around the old folks home and eat some--->

[madfloridian]

270. Sounds good to me.

But then I am so old it might be too exciting for me.

:rofl:

[Mad_Dem_X]

150. Yes, they are.

Comparing Obama supporters to Nazis is not cool.

[workinclasszero]

134. Wow really going off the deep end now, eh? (nt)

[truebrit71]

184. Wow, you really don't get it do you?

...Have you not been paying attention this past 7 1/2 years or are you just thick?

ALL Dems must support the Dem nominee this fall...whether it were Obama/Clinton/Gumby..it doesn't matter...a Democrat simply HAS to win the Preisdency this fall, and if you cannot understand that basic philosophy may I suggest that you are in the wrong party...because allowing Grampa McLame to serve a 3rd bush term is absolutely NOT an option...

Get on board, or get the fuck out of the way...

[mac2]

178. Already handing out punishment for not being DLC?

[MaraJade]

66. After the treatment that Florida received from the DNC

being STOMPED ON and disregarded, I cannot blame them one single bit. For them to "fall in line" and
agree is exactly the same as an abused wife who accepts the lame apologies of her violently abusive
husband.

It would make no sense at all for them to agree with how they've been treated. People are angry at
having been disenfranchised. They have a RIGHT to anger.

[prolifedemq]

76. They deserved to be stomped on

Rules are made for a reason. Everybody agreed to the consequences, and every candidate supported the consequences passed on at sentencing.

The Democratic Party is a party, not the goverment. They owe nobody nothing. Its a exclusive club and if they don't like it they can leave. It's not like we get anything from Florida anyways.

[EFerrari]

77. No. It's more like a manipulative kid who breaks the rules

and then screams when he is grounded.

[madfloridian]

80. Bull hockey, FL got lucky.

They did it to themselves.

[muryan]

84. You don't see GOP senators in open revolt

against the party for the same penalty. And before you start with the "we're democrats we should be better than the GOP!"

Last time I checked, we were a party that believes in rule of law, and penalties for breaking rules so give it a rest.

[MaraJade]

87. Then they have a perfect right to defect--

Period. Nuff Said!

[madfloridian]

92. Oh, yeh...nuff said, my friend.

[MaraJade]

109. Yes, I agree.

'Nuff Said!

[truebrit71]

187. ..and a perfect right to face a primary challenge for going against their own party...

...

[iconicgnom]

264. na na, na na na na, hey hey, goodbye!

Let's all sing along!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6oAUQRSol8

[truebrit71]

185. Then they shouldn't have moved their primary date. GET OVER IT.

It is done...time to move on...

[Raster]

222. "After the treatment that Florida received from the DNC..."

Too bad some good people--Dems and Repubs alike--are being used like cheap tissue paper in Florida. I don't know who you are, but I do know who Madfloridian is, or at least I know her posts and her research. I've followed the absolutely decadent world of Florida politics for years. If you want to fairly place the blame for the primary debacle in Florida, look no further than the rethuglican state legislature, with full collaboration from certain Florida "Dems," whose main motivator is lining their pockets, not protecting the public interest. It's not the heat in Florida, it's allowing scheming, conniving bastards like jeb bush* and their accomplices of both parties to control state government. People in Florida do have a right to their anger. They need to direct it in the right direction.

[Terran]

249. gosh, you're right!

Politics is JUST LIKE domestic violence. Why have I never figured that out before??!

You are a fucking genius.

[DS1]

85. he's not distancing himself from a liberal Democrat, he distancing himself from Sandy Freedman

such is the point of change. No more ass kissing.

[madfloridian]

88. Both are distancing and saying rude things about the party.

So I don't get your reference.

[still_one]

86. If these "so-called" democrats, mahoney and others want to "help mccain get right on the issues"

then they are so fucked up in a major way and their actions indcate they don't give a damn about gender rights, civil rights, the Iraq war, or the economy

They only care about their self-centered ego

I don't really give a damn that these so-called freaks want mccain. The party doesn't need them, Clinton doesn't need them, Obama doesn't need them, let them go to mccain. They have the same temperment as that SOB, so it makes perfect sense

[MaraJade]

90. I don't see anything in your post about the concerns of

older folks or working folks. Figures. We are FREAKS. You've said it all. We're FREAKS and
our reasons and concerns about Obama are utterly useless and our concerns aren't worth a tinker's damn.

We who carry the "lunch buckets" aren't worth listening to.

Thank you. Thank you very much for your post.

[madfloridian]

93. Poor baby.

Everybody picking on you.

[MaraJade]

100. ......

No reply at all

[Kool Kitty]

98. Some of us lunch-carrying workers

(and I'm older) care about other workers AND our parents AND support Obama. (I never went to college, though.) Where would I fit in, in your revolution?

[MaraJade]

101. ....

No reply at all

[Kool Kitty]

104. No answer, or didn't I make any sense?

(Sometimes I don't.)

[MaraJade]

110. . ...

Take it as you will. No reply at all.

[Dr.Phool]

128. You're gonna wear out your fingers not replying.

:rofl:

[still_one]

139. You are definitely a cool cat in my book /nt

[still_one]

136. you are if you vote for mccain, because you obviously do not understand the issues /nt

[The Wizard]

258. Have you considered

any of the wonderful products made by Fleet?

[PretzelWarrior]

91. As I've said before....Fuck Florida

they are really really on my nerves. And not just because of 2000 or that my parents live there.

They need to get on the bus or get left behind.

[MaraJade]

102. You've said it all. . .

Your PARENTS live there. . .

[truebrit71]

190. Amen.

Fuck Florida.

Twice.

Get on board or get the fuck out.

[madfloridian]

97. Damn, they are coming out of the woodwork....new attack blog against Obama

http://no-bama.blogspot.com/2008/06/hillary-rants-iv-puma-dems-speak-out.html

What the heck is a PUMA Democrat.

[MaraJade]

103. If Obama continues to ignore Hillary supporters

expect more of this.

[democracy1st]

107. Are you serious?

[MaraJade]

112. Absolutely.

It is Obama's job to deal with the anger out there, not Hillary's. He has a lot to prove, and I strongly
suggest that he get to "provin' it." He has a job to do, and he must do it without reliance on help
from others.

[Shipwack]

132. Obama doesn't have the time to personally soothe every dissapointed supporter...

I understand that you're bitter, but...

Wouldn't it be better for Obama to campaign against McCain, vice spend time winning over people that should be on his side in the first place?

While one can argue he needs to do this without "help from others", he also should be able to do this without wondering who in the party is going to put a knife in his back.

::Cue pro-Hillary "You want to talk about knives in the back?" retort in 3...2...1...::

[Raineyb]

245. Are you daft?

It is Clinton's job to deal with the anger out there since she's the one who ratcheted it up in the first place.

Clinton is the one who turned the primary into a referendum on her. Clinton is the one throwing around specious arguments about sexism being the cause of her loss. Clinton is the one who deluded her followers by giving them the impression that she had a chance in hell when she lost the primary a long time ago and couldn't win without resorting to having the supers overturn the will of the people. Clinton is the one whose surrogates on the rules and bylaws committee had taken away all of the delegates of Michigan and Florida because they broke the rules and then after saying, on television, that "Everyone knows that Michigan and Florida won't count for anything" went on to fight a disingenuous fight to "count every vote" when it became apparent that she needed them!

Now Obama will deal with the fallout as he must and he will do what he can. But any clown who votes for McSame is not a true progressive or a Democrat and needs to be shown to the door. Because the rest of us cannot afford 4 more years of Republican fuckery.

Regards

[madfloridian]

111. Good by.

.

[MaraJade]

113. Good evening

to you too.

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[still_one]

137. You obviously won't vote for the Democratic nominee, so why waste time here /nt

[tnlefty]

154. According to a caller that I heard on Stepahanie Miller's show

last week: Party Unity My Ass, and I don't think they're really democrats.

[McCamy Taylor]

116. Once Obama does some campaigning in Florida everyone will change their tune.

In the South they like to meet the candidates. Not campaigning in the state (which was the decision of the DNC) was a terrible decision for the Party (bad, DNC, bad!) and the people who made that bone headed decision should go stand in the corner. Except that they all assumed Clinton would be the nominee and that her name recognition meant it wouldn't matter. Shows what happens when you assume. The decision to strip Mi and Fl which was not supposed to affect things, ended up having a profound effect on the primary. It probably did more than anything else done by an outside party (not Clinton or Obama) to throw the race to Obama---and to cost the Dems Florida and maybe the election this fall. So, while it helped Obama secure the inevitability effect early that helped him accrue more votes and delegates (esp. superdelegate support) so that his caucus strategy enabled him to win the nomination, it may well cost him victory this fall.

They need smarter people at the DNC who can think forward.

[MrRobotsHolyOrders]

117. Tim Mahoney is a congressman for one reason

And it involves a guy who solicited sex from children. And he still BARELY won the district.

This guy is a buffoon, and if he's aiding McCain... why not let him eat it? He's as charismatic as a sack of corn, and the Republicans will take this seat back eventually. The party ID numbers are atrocious.

[davidpdx]

119. These people are

Republicans and need to be removed from office and kicked out of the party.

[Blue_State_Elitist]

120. Florida is lost to us in November.

[Political Heretic]

121. I wish Florida would just secede and shut the fuck up.

:P

[cyclezealot]

122. Blame Hillary for Fla Maverick dem's?

I suggest it would have happened anyway. Tampa has always elected backwater type Dems. Reagan Democratic types. Ever since Sam Gibbons became passe and the New Deal gave way to the Civil Rights movement. . As they say, all politics is local. Local meaning , its all about me. / Yes, Hillary will likely talk to her supporters??/ But, its Obama's race to win or loose. Maybe Grassroots Dems need talk to the Tampa Mayor and not so much Hillary. / Maybe , just Maybe Obama was not the best choice in order to carry Florida come November?

[DaLittle Kitty]

239. Edwards Would Have Been THE BEST... "THIS" can Be CORRECTED w/ An EDWARDS Choice For Vice President!

:think:

[and-justice-for-all]

131. Faux Dems....

Rethugs in sheeps clothing.

It should not matter who the nominee is, true democrats must support whomever it is that WON. 'Sexism'?? what the hell! They failed 'US' (Faux FL dems)? No, actually we win either way, Be it Obama or Clinton.

[indimuse]

135. Obama is the GREAT Uniter!

He has a lot of work to do....NOT Hillary!

[still_one]

138. Yes Obama has a lot of work to do, and his campaign will do it

and he WILL be the President

[janetblond]

144. This is the result of Clinton's RUTHLESSNESS

They knew what they were doing.
I bet she's hoping Obama loses.
As far as the angry Floridians .. let 'em vote for McCain and risk the WHOLE COUNTRY.
Just shows how stupid they are.

[Independent-Voter]

148. Can we just get rid of Ohio and Florida? The rest of the country would be grateful

[madmom]

164. Hey what's wrong with Ohio? We're just starting to turn blue again..

we supported Clinton, put I haven't seen anything about Ohio "dems" fighting Obama, was there any I'm not always up on what's happening here. That being said I will agree on this point though, Ohio SUX.

[madmom]

167. First let me say I WILL vote for Obama in Nov., that being said I can kinda understand where

brensgrrl is coming from. I was/am a big time Clinton supporter, and I still have a few doubts about Obama, but I'm willing to listen and hope, not disparage and fight. WE NEED to gain back our government.

BTW I'm a middle aged working woman.

Edited to say: sorry meant this to be response to those arguing with brensgrrl not an answer to my own post!

[Independent-Voter]

173. Ohio will find a way to fuck things up this election. They're consistant if nothing else.

There's plenty of reasons that state is losing population each year.

[madmom]

177. re ohio losing population... the main reason being ...no jobs!..not politics so much.

[Independent-Voter]

179. The steel industry died a generation ago, they don't bother putting resources into education, etc

Can't blame them - I'd leave too if I lived there. SE Ohio is one big meth lab at this point. Pretty fucked up area.

[madmom]

181. While I can't argue that point with you, my son did leave Ohio , he now lives in

Maryland. He has 3 daughters and he thinks the school system there is so f**ked up he wishes he could afford to move back to Ohio.

[Independent-Voter]

183. Yeah - there's goofy stuff everywhere. We're possibly going to homeschool or go with private ed

once the time rolls around, although the public schools here are in pretty good shape.

[mac2]

171. You only want your states to rule?

Those Dems in FL and MI are a large part of our party. They have high population and contribute much to our society. You want to dismiss their right to vote and have their goals like you?

[Independent-Voter]

192. Hardly. I'd like for Ohio and Florida to get their shit together. Their lack of voting security is

an embarrassment to any civil society.

[mac2]

217. I agree.

But what have Democrats done to stop it? Not much.

[Independent-Voter]

276. This next election cycle in Ohio will be telling. I hope the SoS has gotten things in gear.

[madrchsod]

155. if the democrats in Florida do`t get their act together

they are going to be shit out of luck in the next four years...rewards are given to those who do the most work for the party.

[mac2]

172. They already are.

They are not to blame for the crap rules set up by their party or the legislative Republican party in FL. Their votes and representation was stolen before the election this time.

Our party leaders need to get their act together.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

156. Mahoney doesn't owe anything to the party?!

When we suddenly had an open seat in Florida in 2006 and the DNC shook the money tree on his behalf?! He doesn't owe the party anything?!

Ingrateful son-of-a-bitch. This isn't about his lack of support for the candidate, this is about his forgetting where his bread is buttered.

Fuck him. Let him rot. I hope the Republicans get their seat back.

Of course, then he'll whine about not getting enough support from the national party.

[George II]

165. Screw them - if that's how they feel then they weren't Democrats in the first place!

[ekwhite]

170. What is is with these people?

The Democratic party in Florida apparently needs some serious reform. How can we possibly compete when we have idiots like these as party leaders down there?

[mac2]

175. What about our leaders in the party who made this all

happen in the first place? Reform is a mild word for what they have done to two whole states full of Dems. No punishment for Iowa, NH, SC for voting early. The rest of the large states be damned.

[truebrit71]

180. Any Dem that doesn't vocally support the nominee needs to get booted the fuck out of the party...

...I don't care who the fuck you are, but if you will not endorse Obama over McCain you are in the wrong fucking party and need to be replaced....

Oh, and just what the fuck is wrong with Florida...is it the heat or the humidity that turns people's brains to mush?

Seriously, you guys have MAJOR fucking issues...

[mac2]

203. Boot click

[truebrit71]

208. huh?

...

[happygoluckytoyou]

186. lose the women or lose the blacks.... either way someone was going to cry---get over it

[mac2]

214. Let's do the numbers.

Women are over half the population and they vote. African Americans are 13% and many don't vote. Who would you rather support you? Obama needs more than Hispanics (also 13%) and African Americans to win.

[Major Hogwash]

256. That's just racist bullshit.

I don't know where you got your numbers, out of your ass probably, but it has been posted here several times, over and over again, that Obama got the majority of almost every single class of voter in almost every state he ran in after Super Tuesday.

[redqueen]

188. "But I got to do whatever I can to help McCain get right on these issues."

:wtf:

[progressoid]

191. WTF indeed! eom

[book_worm]

194. looks like we'll have to win without Florida.

[grahamhgreen]

195. Right. Elect McSame, bomb Iran, get $500/barrel oil.

[atufal1c]

224. The Party has been poisoned.

I agree that we all need to make nice and make sure we get a Dem in the White House. But it is unreasonable for us to expect the healing to happen if we can't be honest about what has taken place.

Hillary and Bill Clinton poisoned the Democratic Party with a lot of gender card and "I'm a victim" bullshit. Yes, I absolutely believe there was sexism. But just causing you to lose ISN'T sexist. And she's going to have to admit it HEAD ON, if we are going to win in November.

Look, how can we be surprised at the way people are breaking ranks when Hillary and Bill OPENLY ATTACKED not just Obama, but the Democratic Party ITSELF?

Hillary needs to call out sites like HI44 and No Quarter and call them what they are: Republican false-flag operations. She needs to say EXPLICITLY that Obama is not sexist. That Obama is not racist. Or Muslim. Or extemist. That he is a fucking American and goddamn anybody that says different! That she wasn't cheated. In short, she needs to stop being Presidential and start playing bulldog.

It's time to address the crowd directly when they boo Obama, Hillary.

Her categorical support of Obama is the antidote to this bullshit.

And to all of you people that thought it wasn't the worst thing in the world for this to run until the convention---what do you figure our odds would have been with only a couple of months to address this nonsense?

[mac2]

274. I'd say new poster that this is a divisive post.

[TexasObserver]

226. Hillary is either tacitly approving these things, failing to stop them, or unable to stop them.

Whichever of those three it is, she's failing to do what a candidate is suppose to do: bring her troops into line.

This whole thing points out that much of Hillary's support is not FOR HER at all, but against Obama. That's why she cannot control them, because they would have supported any white person running against Obama.

[BearSquirrel2]

234. Yeah, like Republicans are all feminists ... (nm)

[Enrique]

237. Hillary needs to start throwing some people under the bus

[roguevalley]

240. They need to be sanctioned by the party. severely. the fuckers.

[samsingh]

243. where were these assholes when bush stole the election from Gore?

they're paper tigers bent on destroying their own decent party - letting the repugs cause the death of thousands instead.


fucking assholes.

[samsingh]

244. where were these assholes when bush stole the election from Gore?

they're paper tigers bent on destroying their own decent party - letting the repugs cause the death of thousands instead.


fucking assholes.

[ToeBot]

250. Florida? Florida! How do I really feel about Florida? DethGov!!

http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a25c3921a57f78e011a598a92280059">Metalocalypse: DethGov

I'm so fucking sick of Florida.

[Beacool]

251. Florida will go Republican as it has done for the last few elections.

Leave it to the DNC to screw it up, as usual. Great job of courting Floridians!! LOL!!!

My mom lives in Palm Beach and I go there often. Democrats are furious at the party and will likely not forget it in Nov.

[GoldieAZ49]

267. Obama ran as the great "uniter"

Hillary is on vacation, she will say what she has to according to her 'pledge' to the party. Individuals are still free to do as they please.

It is Obama that wants their vote, Hillary already had it.

[Mark E. Anderson]

278. Another Florida dem.

The idea that the DNC punishes Florida for running a primary too early, and rewards Iowa for running the most undemocratic caucus possible is unacceptable. I voted when I could, and it's thrown out by the "count all the votes" party. If the party of the caucus, wants my vote in the future, it will have a primary system that is DEMOCRATIC. The states would not be allowed to have a caucus in the general election because it would be ILLEGAL, they don't meet any standard of the Voting Rights act. Will the democrat's institute a poll tax, literacy tests? A simple idea is rotating which state primary goes first. Have say, 5 states on the first primary day, then a Super Tuesday with 10, etc. and rotate them and make them diverse states. Furthermore, they must all be primary's, one person, one vote, by secret ballot.

[MadBadger]

279. You gonna vote for Obama Mark?

[madfloridian]

281. There were changes.

Two diverse states were moved in with IA and NH.

The party rules have been the same for years, and suddenly Hillary's surrogates in two states had to move ahead....the rest of the country be damned.

Why all the threats against this chairman? McAuliffe told MI they would not go near Boston if they moved up. Nobody got mad at him.

Why all of a sudden?

Think about it.

[40ozDonkey]

282. As a Florida Democrat I apologize for all the whiners and hypocrites

who didn't give a shit about their own state's primary until Hillary needed their votes in the spring.

Floridians didn't say anything in October.
Floridians didn't say anything in November.
Floridians didn't say anything in December.
Floridians didn't say anything in January.
Floridians didn't say anything in February.
In March they suddenly realized what they had known all along.

Floridians are owed nothing and if you give in to us on flimsy excuses from a handful of loudmouths we'll just take twice as much next time. Stop giving air time to the children and please pay attention to the silent majority of Floridians who understand rules, morals, and our own Democratic responsbility.

(They're called "representatives" for a reason, kids. Stop blaming everyone else.)

[madfloridian]

283. Well, that deserves a round of applause.

:applause: :applause: