Can we please stop using "18 Million" as a talking point? PLEASE!!!

[jeffrey_X]

yes, Hillary still has supporters and millions that voted for her, but it is not 18 million. We've seen the transition here. Maybe it is 14 million, 10 million, 8 million, 2 million....who really knows what the exact number is at this point.

BUT IT IS NOT 18 MILLION.

Some of these pundits are looking really stupid for repeating this factually incorrect talking point.


/rant

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[muryan]

2. If you can wave a magic wand and turn 17+ million into

18 million, then sure...why not

[dsomuah]

3. It's easy to make a fictional number of supporters go away.

It's not 18 million. You wanna have a debate about what the number truly is, fine, but quit waving around a factually incorrect number.

[MarjorieG]

4. I know you're a supporter, but many were/are name brand votes, and have already moved on.

[FrenchieCat]

6. All who vote are not "Supporters" of the candidate............

Obama counts approx 1.7 million as supporters. These are folks who gave and volunteered.

If Hillary Clinton had 18 million "supporters", she would have no campaign debt.

Hillary Clinton does not have 18 million supporters...this is a lie and a myth being perpetuated by a PR machine who's point is to hold mere voters hostage; voters that are not hostages.

[Cha]

20. That's right..I didn't think

of that..they could all give her $10 bucks.

[FrenchieCat]

22. That would be 180,000,000 million dollars.....enough to get through

the general election.

That's why 18 million supporters is a myth, and the one repeated by Hillary's surrogates on TeeVee.

[jeffrey_X]

23. Thank you.

I'm glad others are getting it.

[jeffrey_X]

7. What?

Are you saying to 100% of people that voted for Hillary are still not voting for Obama? I know for a fact this is not correct. We've seen dozens of Hillary voters throw their support behind Obama now that she has conceded.

All I'm saying is it's not still 18 million. I don't know the number. Maybe it's 16 million, maybe is only 5 million.

But it's not 18 million.

Not trying to pick a fight, but repeating "18 million" is factually incorrect.

[bvar22]

35. Hillary has only 47 supporters nationwide.

Thats right. I counted them myself today....only 47.

There are 213 Republicans nationwide masquerading as Hillary supporters, but they are really McCain plants.....counted them myself.

BUT, the scream very loud, and twelve of them are members of DU.

The myth that Hillary has 18 Million supporters is as phony as the claim that Hillary won the popular vote.

[TexasObserver]

31. 11 million of them have ALREADY said they'll vote for Obama

That leaves maybe 7 million, and of those, there are the considerable groups of (1) the Operation Chaos Republicans, and (2) the DINOs who vote Dem in the spring for the primary, but never would have voted for her in the fall. Those two groups make up about 3.5 million, leaving another 3.5 million of variously disaffected Clinton voters.

Of that 3.5 million, over half will get on board.

And the 1.75 million that remain? Well, they're so dedicated to Hillary they won't even send her $20 each to retire her $30 million debt.

[DenverDem23]

40. No, 18 million additional Obama supporters are very welcomed!

Just come up with those numbers in November, we will be very happy Hillary can produce them!

[cboy4]

5. The bottom line is Obama didn't win by nearly the

runaway margin many of his most obsessed fans would like everyone to believe.

If you don't want to say Hillary won the popular vote, you have no choice but to say a practically equal number of people voted for her as they did for Obama.

I knew Hillary's speech the other night, in which she exaggerated what a great candidate Obama is, wouldn't be enough for you people.

[FrenchieCat]

8. most obsessed fans? Is that what you are for Hillary Clinton?

Cause it sounds like name calling, what you are doing.

[cboy4]

12. Only obsession could cloud the truth, which is that half

of the people who voted in the Democratic Primaries voted for Hillary Clinton.

He's not the overwhelming choice so many of you people want everyone to think he is with all of your talking points, and postings of large crowds at his campaign events.

Look at the vote totals. It's basically a tie. And that's telling.

[FrenchieCat]

17. He won.

but yeah....she got a lot of votes. Not more than he did though. And those voters are not supporters per se.

That the "truth".

The cloud you see is yours.

[Iceburg]

24. True...like Bush won in 2000 /nt

[FrenchieCat]

26. No, not like Bush.

We know who used Bush tactics though, and it wasn't Obama.

I think you should leave it here, or go and visit and stay at CapitolHill or something. :eyes:

[mcctatas]

32. Oh please....

No one can make that comparasin with a straight face. The popular vote is meaningless in our primary system, the delegates are what matter. Even if I were to concede that Hillary won the meaningless popular vote (which I am not), she lost the delegate count by anyone's accounting.....

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

[FrenchieCat]

43. Fear was Bush's schtick........and the 3 AM call commercial was Hillary's......

[SwampG8r]

38. Only obsession could cloud the truth, which is that more than half

of the people who voted in the Democratic Primaries voted for Obama.

She's not the overwhelming choice so many of you people want everyone to think she is with all of your talking points, and postings of tiny crowds at her campaign events.

Look at the vote totals. It's basically a win for Obama. And that's telling.

[cboy4]

39. You're quite the scholar, ha swampg8r?

LOL

[ElsewheresDaughter]

9. I hear ya .....sad isn't it. that some have to just whine and are so needy

some = keyword

[jeffrey_X]

13. Hungry for what? The facts? The truth?

The media is doing a disservice toward our journey towards unity by repeating a talking point that just isn't true.

Surprise more people can't see this. Not trying to be divisive, just want to see an accurate picture portrayed of where we stand versus McCain.

[writes3000]

10. You really should take a look at your own behavior here.

You aren't calming things. At all.

[jeffrey_X]

11. You are missing the point.

I don't have a problem with Hillary. Now that it is over, it is a fact that a significant number of democrats who voted for Hillary are now throwing their support behind Obama.

Using the talking point of "18 million people" are controlled by Hillary is just not true.

[writes3000]

14. Of course, it's not actually true. But some Clinton supporters are going to make that claim...

Because they want her to have a place at the table. They feel she has earned it. I agree with them that she deserves to be at the table. I'm not sure about which role is best. I leave that to Obama & Clinton.

[jeffrey_X]

16. I don't have a problem with this...

and I think most will agree that she will have an important role at Obama's table.

[writes3000]

18. I think we have to start looking beyond the talking points...

And try to understand what people are really trying to say.

The "18 million votes" argument is usually made to say Hillary has earned a big, big place in the Democratic party, perhaps VP. She shouldn't be ignored.

I agree with the argument behind the talking point.

[jeffrey_X]

21. Does anyone really think she is not going to have an important role going forward?

My issue is the repetition of 18 million is keeping us from moving forward.

It's almost like an asterisk on Obama's win. Sorry, we need to move forward and this is one small issue keeping us from getting there.

[cboy4]

25. Seriously, your candidate won....Why are you so obsessed

with this "asterisk" issue?

I mean honestly, this is like listening to the Super Bowl champions bitch and complain after accepting the Lombardi Trophy.

You won, leave us alone.

[jeffrey_X]

27. No. Obama just won the NFC conference championship...the superbowl

is coming a few months from now.

[cboy4]

30. Okay, then this is like listening to the NFC Champions

bitch and whine after winning the right to go to the Super Bowl.

Why is that jeffrey?

Is winning the conference championship still not good enough?

Or do you still have to complain?

[1Hippiechick]

34. "I knew Hillary's speech the other night, in which she exaggerated what a great candidate Obama is,"

wouldn't be enough for you people."
(1) What version of her speech did you watch or listen to? May I suggest that you go back and read the transcript? Her speech is all about you-and-me-and-the-glass-ceiling-and-where-we-are-going-to-take-this-country-but-let's-not-talk-about-what-might-have-been. If you actually see her speech in print, you will SEE how little she mentioned the future of the party or getting behind BHO - all right there in black and white. Her speech was over 20 minutes long, I believe. Go back and read what few words she said about the party and BHO and time it.

(2) You need to familiarize yourself with the connotation of using the term "you people" unless you are genuinely a racist.

:thumbsdown:

[cboy4]

36. You people need to get this all out of your system by

Wednesday or you're out.

[1Hippiechick]

44. There you go with "you people" again.......duh! I think the people who will be out are the ones who

try to vilify Obama, which means the HRC fan club.....

[DenverDem23]

41. Every Hillary vote is NOW a vote for Obama..........or is

A woman, or a man, who didn't understand how politics works, the winner of the most DELEGATES, wins!!!!!!

Sorry to disappoint some of those Hillary voters who were not well informed. But those are the rules Hillary agreed to.

[AtomicKitten]

15. It's designed to try to further denigrate Obama's win.

Some Clinton supporters are processing Clinton's loss by continuing to try to denigrate Obama's win. Waving the "what ifs" (including skewed analysis of the results) like a red flag does nothing except postpone dealing with reality. Obama won, fair and square. Period.

[BlooInBloo]

19. And it's the key talking point behind their repeated threats.

[AtomicKitten]

28. It is indeed but it means precisely squat.

It's like they are poking a dead horse with a stick hoping for ... something. IMO it's more of a personality disorder than anything else when this kind of shit happens.

Most Democrats are seasoned enough to have survived primaries without resorting to this kind of kabuki theater, and this too shall pass.

In the end, the truth which they dare not resign themselves to just yet has already been written. :D

[Cha]

33. Not very

mature to rewrite history to soothe yourself. Got to face what went wrong in order to learn from it.

[JoFerret]

29. Double it to 36 million

But allow for the half - or more - that did not have Obama as their #1. So what?

That's a lot of dem voters to thrash McCain.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

37. It's Probably More Than 18 Million.

There are many who couldn't make it out to vote along with many who couldn't go to caucuses. When it comes to supporters of hers I'd bet anything the number is over 18 million. And just because many here now support Obama since he became the presumptive nominee, that doesn't mean those people wouldn't still vote for Hillary if their primary was held today. So your OP is really kinda silly. Their repeating the 18 million number is perfectly fine. Stop getting your panties in a wad over nothing.

[TexasObserver]

45. Probably under 4 million now. It's down to the dead enders.

Most are already on board with Obama for 2008.

[DrZeeLit]

42. Um, doesn't that mean Obama had 18 million voters, too? Huh? Duh.

[jgraz]

46. Happily, they'll have to take that crap to another board starting Wednesday

Can't happen soon enough.