How many Presidents have lied us into war?

[Quixote1818]

One that comes to mind is James K. Polk who made up all kinds of shit to provoke the Mexican American War so we could control the ports in California. I am willing to bet there are several others.

What other presidents have pulled similar crap? At least Polk pulled off his plan. We can't say that much for Bush.

[loveable liberal]

1. Lyndon Johnson did...

He fell for the same crap only instead of "terrorist" it was "communist" threat. So did Reagan, although Grenada was just an invasion; also Nicaragua was probably an undeclared war.

[Quixote1818]

3. I would agree with that. nt

[rebel with a cause]

41. I will also agree with that.

did a whole study with part of it being on his lying to take us into D.R. in 1965, which we used as training for the Vietnam war. Too many people have died needlessly for the power this country holds over other countries. JMHO

[JoFerret]

50. And add Kennedy then

.

[MonkeyFunk]

2. Lots of 'em

Vietnam was based on lies - depends on who you want to blame. Started under eisenhower, but the big lies came under Johnson.

Grenada was a lie. Panama was a lie. All but a handful of our wars were unnecessary and based on lies.

[Quixote1818]

4. So here is the list so far. Eisenhower, Johnson, Polk, Bush I, Bush II, Reagan

I am getting the feeling this list is going to be very long very quickly.

[Nye Bevan]

20. Bush 1?

What lies did he tell?

Did Iraq not really invade Kuwait?

[Gabi Hayes]

28. do a little reading. it's a tad more complicated than that

you can do it, I know you can

[AllentownJake]

31. Panama

Norriega was a drug smuggling thug but he was a CIA installed thug who went rougue...kind of like Sadam..and Bin Laden.

There are lots of thugs in the world...we tend to focus on the ones we install who go against our wishes after they are installed.

[rebel with a cause]

44. A little help for you.

From what I have read,1) Kuwait was stealing oil from Iraq and that is what started their problem. 2) The land Iraq took was taken from them earlier by Kuwait perhaps, not sure of this one. 3) There were lies told about the raping of women and other such things to incite the citizens of the good old USA. False (female) witness brought in by USA government to tell these stories and to cry on MSM. Just a few of the things we were not told until a lot later.

[klook]

51. Google search terms for you: Iraq "April Glaspie" (eom)

[LeftyMom]

53. The BS about the incubator babies, the risk to his buddies the Saudis, etc.

Jesus, I was in grade school and I know this.

[unapatriciated]

72. two words......

slant drilling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directional_drilling

[uponit7771]

55. the primary reasons for going to war with iraq at that time were TRUE.

[kentuck]

5. Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson also...

Most of them have lied, I would suppose?

[tomg]

27. Wilson - The War to End All Wars

until the next one. Well, at least Wilson wasn't a blatantly racist shit. Oh, I forgot. He was.

edited to ad: Wilson as shit.

[SOS]

6. McKinley (sort of)

The Spanish American War was based on the lie that the Spanish blew up the USS Maine.
McKinley was against war, but Hearst whipped up the public with his endless lies in his newspapers that Congress authorized force against Spain, which McKinley reluctantly signed.

[Quixote1818]

7. McKinley sounds like the Democratic congress.

Good people with no backbones.

[AllentownJake]

11. Actually he did his duty constitutionally

Congress declares war President is required to abide by that decision or resign.

Congress relinquished their power and duty to Bush.

There hasn't been a legal war since WWII.

[Quixote1818]

14. Good Point. nt

[Arugula Latte]

16. Hearst was the Rupert Murdoch of his time, eh?

[SOS]

52. Indeed he was

It's also interesting to note that Rove's political idol is Mark Hanna, the Republican millionaire who managed McKinley's campaign.

Hearst = Murdoch
Hanna = Rove
Cuba, Phillipines = Iraq

Perhaps a new abbreviation is in order?
SSDC, Same shit, different century.

[HooptieWagon]

54. Essentially true

The USS Maine had a smoldering fire lasting several days in her coal bunker, which was located next to ammo bunker. The general conclusion now is that the fire touched off the ammunition. William Randolph Hearst had been pushing for war for several months, he used the Maine as a propaganda tool to whip the country into war fever.

[grantcart]

8. how many wars have we had? Even the really necessary ones like

WWII requires some subterfuge. If the population really knew the total horror involved we would probably just become an isolationist country.

[AllentownJake]

10. If you look at history

We've actually been actively fighting somebody since 1776

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wars

Very few points in our history where we weren't actively shooting someone.

[AllentownJake]

9. American Wars

Closest things to Just Wars.

Revolutionary War - Brittish Deserved it
War of 1812 - Britts agains causing trouble
Barbary Wars - They declared war on us
Civil War - Was going to happen sooner or later
WWII - No explanation needed unless your Pat Buchanan
Korean War - UN action
Operation Desert Storm - I know people may disagree but Sadam did invade Kuwait and it was an international coaltion
Kosovo - Some disagreement
Afghanistan 2002

Kind of Based on Lies but some truth
WWI - Complex, everyone was totally wrong in some way.

Based totally on Lies
Spanish American War
Vietnam
Mexican/American War
All Indian Wars
Current Iraq War

[Quixote1818]

12. Thats a good summary. Thanks for putting that together.

It would be interesting to see a list of every war in history that was started on a lie. I bet the list is a mile long.

[tomg]

13. Well, there is some debate over

the War of 1812. Otherwise, pretty fair assessment ( of course, I am one of the "some disagreement" foks).

[AllentownJake]

15. I agree some debate

However they kept stealing our Merchant ships and making slaves of our civilian soldiers.

Our desire to annex Canada however had a great deal to do with the decision as well.

[sniffa]

17. Yeah, and we thought we'd beat them without much effort

They fucked us up pretty good.

[AllentownJake]

18. We always think we are invincible

after a win. Its a proud American tradition.

[tomg]

23. If it weren't for the Battle of New Orleans

we would have really had our asses kicked. And that one was after the war was over, so it doesn't count. We should have t-shirst made about the War of 1812 that read "My Government Had the War of 1812, and All I got was a Crappy National Anthem No One Can Sing."

[sniffa]

26. We also wouldn't have had Andrew Jackson

unless the country was really voting for genocide alone that year.

[JVS]

57. and we'd have never had Jackson_Dem

[sniffa]

67. Good point

If we could just go back in time....

:rofl:

[newmajority]

32. Maybe we could change the national anthem then

To one that celebrates that battle. And is slightly less violent than the other one.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4Q47i4zGBs

Too bad Hendrix never played that one at Woodstock :evilgrin:

[tomg]

35. That has to be from the Tennessee Ernie

Ford Show. Awesome. Oh, as to the current National Anthem - we stole the tune from a British drinking song called "To Anacreon in Heaven."

[Gabi Hayes]

29. don't forget all the ''little'' wars, the Grenadas, the Panamas, the

Nicaraguas (mining their harbor is considered an act of war), the Guatemalas, the Irans (Mossadegh, anyone?), the Chiles, etc., etc.

there have been more than a hundred instances where we've bombed, supported insurgencies, overthrown elected leaders (Chavez), subverted elections

there have been lots of threads linking sites that have complete lists, and it's surprising, really

[AllentownJake]

30. In our history

There really are very few years where our government wasn't shooting at someone for something.

[JVS]

56. Hold up. the barbary coast pirates declared war on us?

[Orsino]

61. Every war is based on lies...

...though perhaps not entirely or even primarily, and perhaps not on all sides.

A ruling class whips up the commoners into a frenzy, sometimes with justification, in order to perpetuate or enrich itself. We remember the Maine, the Alamo, and Pearl Harbor, often just the way They want us to, and we go kill and die for the very rich.

Occasionally there is good reason to take up arms, but certain interested parties will lie anyway, just to make sure as many of us as possible are persuaded.

[whistler162]

19. Spanish-American War

McKinley

[Prophet 451]

21. Grenada and Vietnam come to mind

Although actually, I'm not sure Vietnam counts on the grounds that I think Eisenhower's administration genuinely believed that the area would go communist if it wasn't stopped in Vietnam. OK, they were completely wrong but it has to be a deliberate deception to be a lie. Johnson certainly lied his ass off to esculate that war though. Grenada was just manufactured whole cloth. The current Iraq war obviously (Personally, I think Afghanistan was justified but your mileage may vary).

You could make an arguement for 1812 which was largely our fault (the English) but the US wasn't entirely blameless. Kosovo is open to question. The first Gulf War (Desert Storm) was justified but the causes were heavily edited for public consumption (Hussein invaded due to a dispute about oil rights on the Iraq/Kuwait border).

I think that covers all the actual wars with dubious intent but there's about 80 "executive actions" of questionable morality which the public wasn't informed about at the time.

[Thothmes]

24. Really shouldnt count Viet Nam as Ikes,

When he left office in 1960 there were 300 American advisors in Vietnam. By Dec 1963 the number was up to 16,000. After the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, the numbers went of like a Saturn V rocket. JMO.

[Prophet 451]

25. Point

Technically though, Ike was the one who got involved with Vietnam. We can't take if from the declaration of war since there wasn't one.

[AllentownJake]

33. True

However we had "advisors" in half the developing world under Ike conducting training for governments we liked. We still do.

[Thothmes]

58. Actually we had military advisors

in Vietnam since the end of WWII. We provided the French with technical assistance from 1948 on. This assistance was in assembly, maintenance and operation of Amercian equipment such as tanks and aircraft provided to them by Truman. Once the French they withdrew, we continued supporting the South Vietnames. At the end of Ike's term, the number of advisors in Vietnam was around 300.

[rebel with a cause]

46. Kennedy was pulling our advisors out when he was

assassinated. Within two weeks of his death, Johnson had rescended Kennedy's order for pull out and upped the amount of advisors there.

[Thothmes]

59. It was Kennedy that raised the number of advisors

from 300 in 1960 to 16,000 in 1963. He was discussing withdrawel after the 1964 elections.

[Buck Laser]

22. Then there's Reagan and Grenada...

...to distract attention from the Marine barracks in Lebanon.

[tomg]

34. Do they have to be liars, or can they

be incompetent idiots whose incompetence ( to put it kindly) made a war much worse? If so, I hereby nominate James Buchanan - often referred to by American historians as the 2nd worst president. Our own George Bush, of course, claims top honors in that category.

[AllentownJake]

36. Poor Pennsylvania

Such a great state and the only President we had was that guy.

Could be worse we could be TX responsible for the war criminal Presidents.

[baldguy]

38. New amendment.

No more presidents from Texas.

[AllentownJake]

39. Don't think its going to be a problem

for a long time.

Anne Richards would have made a fine President and they produced Molly Ivens.

No more male Presidents from Texas.

[rebel with a cause]

48. I have been saying that for seven years.

:rofl:

[AZ Criminal JD]

37. If you count military advertures as war, then all 43 of them.

[WinkyDink]

62. Facile AND wrong. Amazing. Yeah, Lincoln "lied" us into the Civil War.

Carter "lied" us into...?

Yes, the OP's operative word is "lied".

[AZ Criminal JD]

64. I guess you forgot "Desert One"

[rch35]

40. FDR with Pearl HArbor.. nt

[baldguy]

42. The old fascist slander of FDR.

Fuck that.

[rch35]

66. see my response to the poster underneath nt

[baldguy]

68. Vague indications that an attack by Japan might be being planned.

It does not equal hard facts which would prompt decisive actions by the President. Because of Japan's actions in Manchuria, we had joined the allies in observing economic sanctions against them. This is an act of war. They were bound to retaliate in some way, either at Subic bay or Midway or Pearl Harbor.

The question: did FDR know enough to start a war over?

Everyone has 20/20 hindsight, but we really will never know. What we DO know is if FDR had attempted to launch a military action against a nation that had not overtly threatened us, then his enemies - the very same people who use this slander to attack him - would have tried everything to impeach him. And they might have succeeded.

The fact is the RW has used this lie to impugn the legacy of a great President for almost 70 yrs. They don't need help spreading their lies.

[rch35]

70. is it so hard to believe that a president who made one of the greatest overhauls

of the role of government in the history of America (and i am not saying that it was a bad thing, FDR is one of my favorite presidents), would act on a moral imperative for what he believed to be the greater good?

[WinkyDink]

60. That we were attacked is hardly a "lie". BTW~~~I hope you remember to refuse your Social Security.

[rch35]

65. That he was pre-warned is hardly a "lie" either.

He did a lot of good things, and he felt like he was acting on a moral imperative, because he believed the only way the axis could be defeated was with american help, but american sentiment was strongly anti-war before the attack on pearl harbor.

The USA intercepted dozens of coded japanese messages that they decoded, an example of which is right here :
"“...the task force, keeping its movements strictly secret and maintaining close guard against submarines and aircraft, shall advance into Hawaiian waters, and upon the very opening of hostilities shall attack the main force of the United States fleet in Hawaii and deal it a mortal blow...""

so yeah


heres a link

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=408

just because i think FDR was a good president doesn't mean that he never acted on morally shady grounds.

[proud patriot]

43. Bush Sr lied about "incubators" the 1st time around in Iraq

[proud patriot]

45. Ray - Gun lied about Panama , Nicaragua ie "Iran Contra"

[NYC_SKP]

49. And Ollie North made a career out of it.

I followed the hearings closely back then.

I never dreamed that he'd parlay his misdeeds into a career in "journalism"....

[NYC_SKP]

47. Every 21st Century war is still being fought.

Because what good are short wars to warmakers and their corporate support base, hmmm?

21st Century:

War on Terrorism, 2001 - present
Operation Enduring Freedom - Afghanistan 2001 - present
Operation Enduring Freedom - Philippines 2002 - present
Operation Iraqi Freedom - Horn of Africa 2002 - present
Operation Iraqi Freedom, 2003 - present
Waziristan War, 2004 - present
War in Somalia, 2006 - present
Operation Iraqi Freedom - Trans Sahara 2007 - present

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wars

***Let's just throw in that never ending "war on drugs"...

[WinkyDink]

63. Oddly enough, this is only one President (remembering the OP).

[mtnsnake]

69. Fuck this. Nobody lied like Bush & nobody deserves prison like Bush....PERIOD.

[SwampG8r]

71. andrew jackson with his indian wars?