Is Obama's trip abroad undercutting Biden's shot at VP?

[CTyankee]

Barring some incredibly stupid gaffe of gigantic proportions by Obama or his staff on this trip (pretty frickin' unlikely IMO), Obama is prepared to have made a foreign relations coup out of this trip, which will greatly enhance his foreign policy cred in this election. Does this mean he won't need Joe Biden as his VP as much, and will pick a governor who can be more helpful with domestic policy and maybe deliver a red state?

OR, is the economy a given for Obama because the Republican brand is at the bottom of the economic sewer right now (always was really...) and he needs Biden to bring the ticket over the top?

I'm groovin' for Biden lately but want to know if I'm a bit overenthusiastic for the guy just about now...

[TwilightGardener]

1. No, I don't think Biden's VP shot is in any way undermined by this trip.

[grantcart]

2. Biden is unlikely to be the VP IMHO

1) Two Senators Unlikely

2) He has a habit of speaking without thinking

3) His personality doesn't really fit the 'confidential adviser'

4) No electoral help.


Personally I think its going to be Kaine.

[depakid]

4. Plus all that drivel on the Sunday "news" shows for the past 8 years

would come back to haunt him.

[TwilightGardener]

7. I've been a big proponent of Biden for VP, but you raise a troubling point there.

There is just SOOOO much material...

[grantcart]

9. and all the Senate votes -- back to explain confusing votes

I was for it before the ammendment that changed the meaning and then I had to vote for it until it came out of conference committee etc etc.

Theres a reason Senators don't get elected and why Obama only being in his first term has an upside.

[gateley]

14. How about all the strong statements, important information and

intelligent discourse on those Sunday "news" shows?

You reduce the man to a few - oft repeated ad nauseam - slips.

Glad you're not judging me.

[PatSeg]

16. Actually, it was on the "Sunday shows"

that I first became acquainted with Biden and I found him very impressive and knowledgeable.

[depakid]

18. Inconsistent and often downright foolish statements

enabling far right policies are far worse and provide a mountain of material showing how "Democrats" agreed with "the Presidents" policies -and therefore the Republicans shouldn't be blamed for them.

They're exactly what DON'T need.

and, I'm not judging you- but judging Biden by his actions and his statements- which have for years simply been meant to benefit Joe Biden, irrespective of any principled stands on the issues.

[TwilightGardener]

31. Wrong on Biden--he does take principled stands on many issues, more

often than not. He's not perfect, he's a pol as much as anyone, but it's wrong to suggest he doesn't have the country's best interests at heart most of the time.

[Muttocracy]

33. but he's clearly become so wealthy and powerful!!!!111

:sarcasm:

[TwilightGardener]

34. Thank you--Biden is actually one of the least-wealthy members of the Senate--

for all the bitching about the credit-card companies and his bankruptcy vote, he obviously isn't too keen on enriching himself through catering to special interests, unlike much of the rest of Congress.

[Eurobabe]

12. We agree to disagree then.

I would be really surprised if Tim Kaine got tapped for Veep. Partly because I've met him, and he's a real regular guy. And if I've met them, they usually don't get on the ticket. BWAHAHAA!! (Consider Clark in 2004)

While I agree with you re: 2 sitting senators argument, I think Biden could have some influence in South and Southeastern PA. Oh wait, I thought we siad that the VP would have really NO electoral influence?

Just my .02.

:hi:

[Cha]

62. OT

Aren't you going to Berlin like soon? :)

[Eurobabe]

64. Yep, flying on Weds.

Someone just showed me a picture of an event at the Siegessäule (Victory column) and I said, mental note, bring the Detrol LA, because it will take hours to find a potty. :rofl:

[Cha]

75. So excited for you and all of us

who want Obama to win and do his thing.

Part of the Live 8 concert in 2005 was held at the Siegessäule and I watched Green Day there and thousands of Germans loving them when they sang "An American Idiot" among other faves.

[AngryAmish]

73. also, Biden is a crook

[bunnies]

3. Biden has said, many times, that he is not interested.

I'd think Obama would like to have someone who actually wants the job.

[TwilightGardener]

10. I do believe that Joe secretly wants it, despite what he says.

[Pirate Smile]

5. I don't think so. I read that one of Biden's guys (I can't remember his "title" but he works for

Joe) is along on the trip.

Biden is great at defending Obama from Republican attacks. That is a very needed skill and IMO increases his shot at the VP.

He is my favorite for the spot too.

[Muttocracy]

22. Anthony Blinken - majority staff director for SFRC

edit - and also worked in Clinton admin on foreign policy

http://www.aspeninstitute.org/site/c.huLWJeMRKpH/b.2712389/k.5D45/Senate_Foreign_Relations_Committee_Staff_Chief_Tony_Blinken_Discusses_Iraq.htm

[JohnnyCougar]

58. No, I think it makes no difference.

Obama was always going to have to convince voters that he, alone, could handle foreign policy. It's not a very strong argument, IMHO, to say "Look, I don't know much about foreign policy, but my VP does, so vote for me." In a way, making that move is almost an admission and a validation of Republican critics who say Obama is too inexperienced.

I still think it wouldn't hurt to select a VP with foreign policy experience -- however, before doing so, Obama had to prove that he could handle foreign policy alone. Adding a foreign policy VP now would put him over the top.

Biden has been my #1 VP choice from the get-go, although Nunn is moving up quickly. The Obama campaign is competing aggressively in the South Atlantic region, and I think that having Nunn on the ticket would put him over the top in Virginia, North Carolina, Georgia and Florida. I also think this would be the nail in the coffin for McCain. He cannot afford to defend these four states, and still be on the offensive in PA, OH, WI, MN and MI. Biden is good, too, but Nunn puts another entire region in play -- one that Republicans usually take for granted.

[JohnnyCougar]

59. Whoops...meant to respond to the OP.

[DesertFlower]

6. no. i don't think biden will be VP.

maybe secretary of state.

[27inCali]

8. Biden's totally getting a cabinet spot

maybe national security advisor.

but not VP.

[foo_bar]

11. no, it remains a remote possibility

It's still bloody unlikely on account of the scandal in 1988 (and the ensuing 20 years of not campaigning for president), his failure to win a state in the '88 and '08 primaries, his foot-in-mouth syndrome ("That's storybook, man!"), his being a Senator, from Delaware: dissonance with "the change theme"... but stranger things have happened. The "noun, a verb" line was classic, but if he could churn those out like butter without the gaffes and/or lifting charges he would have been president before Clinton.

[CTyankee]

40. If the repubs trot out that plagiarism thing, it will go over like a lead balloon

with the voters. It is totally irrelevant to them in their lives. Biden's foreign policy cred is another story. Biden undercuts a LOT of McCain's "inexperience" talking point.

[foo_bar]

47. "the voters" didn't feel that way in 1988, but perhaps enough time has passed

Even though he won two delegates in the 1988 convention, and zero in 2008. It's definitely a long shot, but you could make a bundle on InTrade if he beats out Al Gore in the improbable event category:

Re: InTrade Presidential odds
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2008, 10:59:03 pm »

Webb 24.9
Clinton 17.0
Bayh 10.0
Gephardt 10.0
Sebelius 9.1
McCaskill 8.5
Rendell 8.0
Hagel 7.5
Biden 6.3
Gore 6.0

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=78538.0

[gateley]

13. I agree that I don't think Biden wants the job.

He's made it very plain several times, BUT has said if it's believed his name on the ticket would help to gain a Dem victory in November, then he would do it for the Party.

That being said, I still think Obama will need someone with FP chops and gravitas (Biden or somebody else) because that fear approach the repubs use is a strong one, and Obama will need someone to quash the lack of experience charges.

On another note - Biden's "gaffes" keep getting recycled. It's not as though he misspeaks every time he opens his mouth by any means. Like all politicians, like you and me, I'm sure he wishes he would have phrased some things differently, but his intent was always good, and he's been fighting the good fight for 35 years. That, to me, far outweighs his rep as a foot-in-mouth accident waiting to happen. I'm really growing weary of that tired old charge.

[Eurobabe]

15. Yeah. show me a politician on EITHER side

that doesn't make gaffes.

In my mind, Joe speaks from the heart, I don't think it is gaffes so much as honesty, that is what gets him in hot water at times.

This was NOT a gaffe:

"And the irony is, Rudy Giuliani, probably the most underqualified man since George Bush to seek the presidency, is here talking about any of the people here. Rudy Giuliani... I mean, think about it! Rudy Giuliani. There's only three things he mentions in a sentence -- a noun, a verb, and 9/11. There's nothing else! There's nothing else! And I mean this sincerely. He's genuinely not qualified to be president."

[PatSeg]

17. You make a good point

It isn't the number of gaffes he has made, it is how MANY times the media repeats them. Once the MSM puts a tag on someone, it is there for life evidently.

[polichick]

21. Do you think he'd like Sec'y of State? I can see him there.

[PatSeg]

23. I think most people can see him there

He is clearly the most qualified person and already knows world leaders "up close and personal".

[polichick]

24. Maybe that's all he's trying to say when people ask him about veep.

[PatSeg]

26. Perhaps

Mostly I think he is saying, he will do what ever is asked of him to get a Democrat in the White House and to help that administration.

[polichick]

28. Well, I sure hope he gets some job in the administration...

But I don't think we have to worry ~ Obama seems to know talent when he sees it.

[PatSeg]

30. Even if Biden stayed where he is now,

he would be an important influence on the next administration. He was an invaluable adviser to Bill Clinton on foreign relations. He was also sought out by GW, but unfortunately he didn't listen.

[Muttocracy]

29. I think you summarized it in a nutshell :)

[karynnj]

27. seeing that the SoS would also have the global warming treaties,

Kerry is actually likely the better qualified. Obama sounds closer in his foreign policy to Kerry, who also knows all the world leaders and Kerry has been as involved on global warming as anyone not named Al Gore.

He likely might not be interested in what would be the perfect time and job (except for what he wanted in 2004) because of Kennedy's health. Kerry is more of a diplomat.

[gateley]

36. I'd love to see him there -

and I think he'd like it, too. I seem to recall reading somewhere that one of his staff intimated just that.

[Labors of Hercules]

19. I think Obama has had all of this planned for a long time

He has waited for just the right moment prior to the convention to unleash his Foreign Policy Creds definitively and "choose" his VP. In a way, this trip only confirms what I have suspected all along, that his VP pick is NOT a foreign relations/Military leader, but someone with excellent domestic policy creds and a leadership style that compliments his own.

:shrug:

[CTyankee]

43. I agree with that assessment. I've heard Obama say that he feels he IS

qualified in the foreign policy area (International Relations was his undergrad major). So I can see how this trip vindicates that position. However, I also see polls that show a lot of voters think McCain is better qualified in that regard, which leads me to think that Obama might want to shore that up.

[Labors of Hercules]

57. Historically, this has proven not to be as good a strategy...

as choosing someone who complements the strengths of the candidate (like Gore did for Clinton). For reference, there's a great op-ed at http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=2871.

[CTyankee]

65. Interesting op ed piece, but I note he had problems figuring out how Obama could

"fit" in his scenario. But my guess that if Obama wanted to stick to the "change" image he should go for Gov. Schweitzer as VP and let McCain have his point about "inexperience." Obama could respond by pointing out what experience has gotten us so far...

[Labors of Hercules]

69. Or Sebelius.

[CTyankee]

70. No, it's too antagonistic to Hillary supporters. Let's not stir that pot

right now. We need to win. No need to insult some Dems. My husband and daughter and I all voted for Hillary. Hubby wants Hillary for VP. I don't cuz of Bill (Hillary would be great except for him having to hog the spotlight). Let's move on...

[Labors of Hercules]

71. So, um... because Sebelius is a woman, he can't choose her?

That's pretty frickin sexist if you ask me.

[CTyankee]

72. Look, their reasoning is that it would insult Hillary. She did the hard work

and received 18 million votes. Now you want a woman on the ticket and where do you go? They feel it is a deliberate slam against all of the effort, money and time these women spent on Hillary who they believed in. They see it as a cynical ploy, not really wanting a woman on the ticket as much as wanting a sycophant of Obama's instead of the tested candidate, Hillary.

You see, it's not sexist at all with them. They feel Hillary worked hard. She deserves the 2nd spot. After all, the men do it that way, don't they? Kerry picked his rival, Edwards. Others have too. It is a time honored tradition. McCain may very well pick Romney, a fierce competitor. But somehow it's "different" with Hillary. That strikes them as sexist. See what I mean?

As I said, I see real problems not with Hillary's credentials, which I think are fabulous, but with her situation. Bill proved what a loose cannon he could be. And having been the President himself really complicates things. I "get" that. But I also "get" why the Hillary people would be upset if another woman gets picked instead of Hillary.

[Labors of Hercules]

76. Is there a way Obama (with Hillary's help)

could introduce Sebelius if he wants her to be his running mate that would avoid this issue?

[CTyankee]

77. what do you think? Do you think it would help or hurt?

REally? Just asking, but do you really in your heart of hearts think HRC's people are going to be all lovey over another female candidate?

It will take a little bit of time, but eventually the wounds will heal. This is not the time to rip them open in their healingprocess, IMO. But what do I know?

A woman's "turn" is coming. It is long overdue and and I think Obama as prez will be VERY sensitive to it.

Just my 2 cents here...

[Labors of Hercules]

80. I think if people are that irrational about it...

They deserve what they get in return. :shrug:

[CTyankee]

81. It is not irrational to be incensed by blatant injustice, which is what

I think these Hillary supporters would feel if another woman is on the ticket. One person's righteous anger at injustice is another's "irrationality."

See what I mean?

[Labors of Hercules]

82. A question about injustice:

Is it unjust for Obama to choose someone other than Hillary as his running mate?

[CTyankee]

84. That is not the issue. The issue -- the injustice -- is what I think Hillary's

supporters would feel if Obama picked another woman instead of Hillary. It would be a slap in her face. I think they would say "She worked for it. She proved herself by getting 18 million votes for president. If the men do it (as Kerry did Edwards), why is Hillary different."

I don't happen to agree with that position, altho I understand their point of view and indeed I did vote for her in my primary (after my first choice, John Edwards, had dropped out). I have no problem whatsover and am overjoyed with Obama. So I tend to take a long view here.

My central point here is strictly political and tactical. It's not good to alienate a significant group of your allies (when has it ever been?). Furthermore, just why would he pick another woman? I have nothing but respect for some of the women who've been suggested for the ticket; they're great. But they haven't proven themselves as great votegetters as a presidential hopeful and Hillary has. Unfortunately, she's got the Bill problem and I wouldn't blame Obama for passing on her because of him. If I were Obama I certainly wouldn't want Bill Clinton trying to get into the act and just being a distraction to Obama's administration. Obama needs to get a fresh team, one that is in HIS camp 100%. Hillary's big minus will and should, IMHO, keep her out of the VP slot.

[Labors of Hercules]

85. Kerry/Edwards didn't win.

The idea that it should somehow fall to the primary "runner-up" to become the de-facto VP is constitutionally flawed, and has historically proven to be a politically and tactically foolish decision as well...

The issue here is an ethical one based on fairness and statesmanship, both qualities Obama has demonstrated spectacularly.

You answered my question that it is NOT unjust to select a running mate other than Hillary. In fact, you said Hillary should be kept out of the VP slot. I agree wholeheartedly.

So the next question is obvious: Is it unjust, discriminatory and fundamentally WRONG that Obama cannot choose another woman as a running mate if it is not feasible for him to choose Hillary?

That is the issue.

The injustice isn't choosing another woman, in fact it's exactly the opposite: The injustice is making a political/tactical decision to discriminate against other highly qualified female candidates and choose a man just to appease some irrational Hillary voters.

[CTyankee]

86. We're in agreement but some Hillary supporters (and I suspect they are getting fewer

in number as time goes on) might see a "double standard." I don't argue the point you make about the desirability of picking the runner up as VP (I haven't done a study on the question so I'll take your word on it) but that's really irrelevant ("male candidates do it all the time but there is a double standard when it comes to Hillary"). Whether it is politically and tactically a good thing is beside the point; the point is that males do it, so why not pick Hillary? Again, I don't defend it, but I can understand it. Politics has broken more than a few hearts, both male and female, and the heart can be irrational.

Again, I am interested first and foremost in winning. It would be interesting to know the result of the polling that Obama's campaign has undoubtedly done on the various VP matchups. Do you have any sources where such results might be found? It may just be that the Hillary supporters are now mostly on board with Obama, given the triumph of Obama's overseas trip. We just may see a whole new ballgame that we never really expected...

[CTyankee]

87. We're in agreement but some Hillary supporters (and I suspect they are getting fewer

in number as time goes on) might see a "double standard." I don't argue the point you make about the desirability of picking the runner up as VP (I haven't done a study on the question so I'll take your word on it) but that's really irrelevant ("male candidates do it all the time but there is a double standard when it comes to Hillary"). Whether it is politically and tactically a good thing is beside the point; the point is that males do it, so why not pick Hillary? Again, I don't defend it, but I can understand it. Politics has broken more than a few hearts, both male and female, and the heart can be irrational.

Again, I am interested first and foremost in winning. It would be interesting to know the result of the polling that Obama's campaign has undoubtedly done on the various VP matchups. Do you have any sources where such results might be found? It may just be that the Hillary supporters are now mostly on board with Obama, given the triumph of Obama's overseas trip. We just may see a whole new ballgame that we never really expected...

[danielet]

20. Let General Clarke loose... unmuzzle him NOW!

Rather than waste my post on superficiality of Biden, I think it more important for all COMBAT VETERANS to write to the Obama Campaign and demand that he let General Clark loose. "I know how to win this war," is the inane crap that screw-up aviator McCain insists on. FDR suffered melanoma metastasis to his brain and we don't need a repeat of the President who won one war just to lose another. It's not his fault, but it would be our fault if we allow a head-and-neck tumor mets to rule our wars again.

But then there's McCain's record as a soldier to consider, given that he insists that IT prepared him to lead and IT makes him the only one to know how to win in the so-called War on Terror. McCain quit the Navy and went into politics specifically because the Navy did not deem him command material. So he assumed that if he can't make it to Admiral and head of the Joint-Chiefs-of-Staff, why not try making it as the Commander-and-Chief through scuzzy politics.

General Clarke, a soldier who got his stars on merit and lost his command on politics knows how to fight wars and has the courage to go down fighting for what needs to be done. Clarke has studied McCain's record and asked: WHERE'S THE BEEF?

Pussy-Dems muzzled him so now Obama is facing ridicule by the presumtive security expert who was one of the Keating Five in on that boondoggle that the current mortgage mess may well make look like a small event. McCain and his jingle-making top security adviser are irresponsible in their violation of American Interests. McCain will do anything to win and it shows....So let General--REAL GENERAL who earned his stars-- CLARKE AT HIM so that the American people can see that McCain is as qualified as someone who underwent appendectomy to become a brain surgeon.

[vaberella]

25. How is he muzzled?

I thought Obama basically supported him and said that Clarke had the right to say what he did. Secondly, isn't Clarke on tour with Dean getting people excited by Dems and Election day?

[danielet]

32. Obama does love him, but Clintoneques do not!

There is a post-op clintonesque desire to sound like a Democrat Sharon in the Party that caused all those votes for the Iraq War Resolution and the standing by Bush rather than canning him that are muzzling Obama. It's time for Dems to allow Vets to "Swiftboat" McCain because he is indecent in how he is using his POW experience, one that some of his fellow POWs are mum about but can't stay quiet much longer if he keeps claiming that it makes his presidential timber.

[scarletwoman]

35. His name is spelled "Clark" -- no 'e' at the end. If you're such a fan, you might want to spell his

name correctly.

Just sayin'...

[CTyankee]

44. I know you are a newbie here, and welcome to DU, but please

understand that the term "pussy" applied to anything but a feline is not appreciated by a LOT of Duers, and not just women. We've been thru the "wars" on that, and I don't want to refight an old war here. However, it just rankles people when the term is used, thereby undermining your point. Try a more exact term that works better (cuz it doesn't immediately turn some of your audience off).

Thanks...:hi:

[scarletwoman]

37. You know, I can't think of any upside to having two senators on the same ticket.

I don't understand why people keep trying to hype various Senators as Obama's VP.

And why anyone thinks it would be a good idea to take a Dem OUT of the Senate when we just barely hold the majority is inexplicable to me. We need to ADD more Dems to the Senate, not pull them out.

sw

[danielet]

39. The choice has been made for NATIONAL UNITY...

it's going to be Sen. Hagel....BRILLIANT!!!

Sorry for my "spell check's error," I am not an American or Anglo-Saxon so I didn't think it through. I hope you can forgive me Catwoman....What's in a name, it's the wonderful general's brain between his ears that counts!

Anyway, I could never spell, I'm a verbal sort of guy when not doing equations or diagramming metabolic processes. Metabolism is easier, it always ends in poop!

[jefferson_dem]

38. I would prefer Barack be able to sink or swim given his own foreign policy bonifides.

That frees up the VP slot for someone who can really amplify his message of "change"...like Kaine or Schweitzer.

That being said, Biden is near the top of my favorites list.

[gateley]

41. If he (Obama)

needs the FP weight, then Biden would be a great choice.

If not, I'm with you on Schweitzer. And I'm starting to like Kaine, too.

We have an embarrassment of wealth!

[CTyankee]

45. Hi Gateley! Always a pleasure to reply to one of your posts.

Re Schweitzer: I really like the guy but I'm seein' ole McCain saying "Two inexperienced guys!" on the Dem ticket and driving that home like crazy.

Gotta be somebody with "experience" ya know.

This is so frustrating...

[gateley]

49. HIya - CTyankee!

:pals:

My response to that is, that Schweitzer has ME experience that NOBODY else has. He's successfully done business there, lived there for 7 years, and UNDERSTANDS the culture. Obama has gathered plenty of experience around him with his FP Advisory Board (just wish Clark was still involved) and they - and the SFRC -- will have more input into FP that a VP would anyway.

I understand the point you're making, though, and in that case Biden would be hard to top (Clark would have been, too.)

:hi:

[CTyankee]

66. You know, I had forgotten about Schweitzer's cred on the ME.

That's a great point. I also like the fact that he would bring the mountain west states more into play and steal thunder from the creaky repubs.

I heard Al Franken interview Schweitzer a couple of years ago. The guy is really impressive.

[danielet]

42. I would agree, but....

There is a hypocrisy I found in Americans: they are race obsessed. So the issue is that, like Jews in academia in the 1940s, blacks have to be victims of all sorts of allegorical critiques covering-up the COLOR ISSUE. Obama is running for President against a life-long shyster and fooler-around who is devoid of substance. But he is WHITE....and so his color trumps his military experience, a "gentleman's "D" at the Naval Academy. Besides five years as a POW, all he has in his record is crashing five panes....That makes him real top gun, eh?

Gen. Clarck should attack McCain' military "expertise" because he is a REAL general and he has the guts to debate if McCain has leadership qualities. WORST OF ALL, CLARCK IS *WHITE* AND SCUMMY RACISTS-- MOST REPS AND DEMS-- WON'T REACT AS THEY REACT WHEN THE WILLIAMS SISTERS OR MOHAMMAD ALI TROUNCED WHITE COMPETITORS.

Americans are decent people-- EVENTUALLY, but right now, Obama needs some WHITE stand-ins to cut through the McCain BS so that when they debate this Fall it will be more mano-mano rather than black vs. white obsession....Sad but true. It will take a while for the nation to heal from the divisive Rove years. We must face the race reality so the election can EVENTUALLY become an honest fight of ideas between the two contenders, fair and square as American EVENTUALLY DO BECOME BETTER THAN ANY PEOPLES IN THE WORLD....They just need to digest the facts without a color confounder at this point....YOU CAN BET THAT SCUMBAG MCCAIN IS MILKING IT IN SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES FOR ALL IT IS WORTH!

So General, over the wall, take the objective so Obama can get a clear path to a fair and man-to-man victory once people stop seeing his color instead of his wonderful mind.

[Occam Bandage]

46. No. Biden doesn't have a shot at VP. He shoots off his mouth *way* too much.

[gateley]

51. And he has never said anything meaningful, informative, brilliant or

wise, has he?

Please stop reducing this man to the same recycled "gaffes". He has served his state and this country admirably for 35 years.

[Occam Bandage]

53. He certainly has. I was a Biden supporter first. However, he isn't what the Obama campaign needs.

Obama has the flash aspect covered. He needs someone who can consistently keep on message and avoid gaffes at all costs; Biden is not that person. He would be a great Sec'y of State. He would be a gamble as a VP candidate.

[gateley]

54. I understand what you're saying.

I was just commenting today that Biden has been exemplary in promoting Obama. Making the point that he was not speaking FOR Obama (lest he let loose :7), but giving Obama much credit and inclusion in FP bills and actions and approaches.

That being said, I'd much prefer (like they're gonna ask me) Biden as SOS.

I just get weary of people throwing that "mouth" thing out there all the time like that's all there is to him.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Milo_Bloom]

48. Biden voted for the war and thus didn't have a shot to begin with.

[goodhue]

50. Biden has no shot in any event

eom

[gateley]

52. And how do you know this? nt

[BlooInBloo]

55. Biden's "shot" is whatever Obama fucking says it is. Obama doesn't owe him anything....

Least of all a vp slot.

[murbley40]

68. right!

Just as Joe dosen't "owe" OBAMA anything. But we as a nation owe Joe Biden a hell of a lot of respect! He has mine! He does not NEED to be VP or SOS, he is powerful where he is but he would be excellent at either.

[TheDonkey]

56. I no longer think Biden is the frontrunner like I once thought. Kaine seems more likely

but I really do not know.

[gateley]

63. Well, none of us really know -- and I bet we'll all be surprised! nt

[TheDonkey]

78. I'm starting to think that too....

the wait is killing me!

[barack the house]

60. I doubt it's about undercutting it's about showing folks how popular he is in the rest of the world.

[saltpoint]

67. Agree with some others here that this trip doesn't impact much on

Obama's veep decision.

I think Biden is a strong contender for the veep slot.

[Thrill]

74. Tim Kaine is the guy. BOOK IT

[ShadowLiberal]

79. No it doesn't but I think Biden's already an unlikely pick, he's too prone to gaffes

Seriously, would you want a VP who makes headlines constantly by saying stuff that people overreact to.

[Kittycat]

83. "Undercutting" Biden's shot? I didn't know Biden was running for VP.

Obama selects his own VP, so how can he 'undercut' a potential VPs shot? :eyes: