How do we fight back?

[CaTeacher]

What is the deal with these Swift Boat Liars? Why do they continue to get attention? I just don't understand it. And I am getting more and more frustrated. What can we (Democrats on the internet) do to help fight these accusations? Are there any points they make where we are vulnerable and need to guard our flank?

[physioex]

1. Go after the money....

Bob Perry Homes 800 24 PERRY....They have multiple other numbers also if you want to pay... :)

[CaTeacher]

2. I don't mind paying--I just want to help.

We need to hit them HARDER then they have been hitting us.

[physioex]

6. Call and ask them a bunch of stupid questions......

Have a fake name and number ready. Then hang up and say I won't support a Repuke.... Loads of fun... :smoke:

[kerryhawk]

3. its very simple

the only response that was needed was at the convention, when those people that actually served on kerry's boat said that he was a hero. non of these not so swift veterans directly serve with him.

mccain denounced the add, bush says that he doesn't question kerry's service, so he is essentially calling these veterans liars as well. there is no way this should be taken seriouisly.

these people don't care about kerry's service, they only want to hurt him because he spoke out against vietnam war, and they perceive it as betrayal. that's what this really is about, that's why they lie about kerry.

[faithnotgreed]

5. right you are. and welcome to du

[CaTeacher]

7. It's hard for me to understand this kind of

attitude--I am more proud of Kerry for speaking out against the war than I am of him for serving.

I think that being a leader in the anti-war movement was where Kerry showed his true patriotism and loyalty to this country.

[kerryhawk]

16. to be fair

the biggest problem is that back then he was advocating for the end of the war, and not only did he have to argue that it was unecessary, he also wanted people to understand that it is extremely barbaric unnecessary war. so he gave a testimony to the senate where he destribed atrocities committed on both sides, and he described how he saw american soldiers burning villages and killing women and children. That absolutely infuriated a segment of vietnam vets because some people were calling them 'baby-killers', and many of them spend their entire life trying to destroy kerry. its a big drama that goes back a long way.

[Tight_rope]

37. Welcome to DU kerryhawk

[Nordic]

4. destroy the cable news media by any means possible?

other than that, nothing's gonna happen.

that's what it's come to.

[fearnobush]

9. Not true, Most people don't even watch cable news.

Word of mouth is still the best communication device. Get in people's faces who actually believe this shit and stick with the basic - They did it to McCain, a Republican - They did it to Max - a three amputee vet and they are now doing it to Kerry. They all feverishly support Bu$h for his family ties woth millions in kickbacks and favors. Tell the neutral people the same and that Kerry is an object of Bush to hide his own AWOL record. At least here in NJ, even the Freeper types know it's bullshit - They enjoy it though because it's an attack on Kerry's war record.

[CaTeacher]

12. actually--a problem with people

I have encountered is that they are unaware of what happened to McCain and Max--for political junkies (like most of us here) it is very disheartening to find out how little most people pay attention to what is going on. Or if they do--they have a short memory.

Very frustrating.

[girl gone mad]

8. This belongs in GD2004.

And I think the best thing we can do is to put the focus right back on Bush's failure to show up for duty and his many failures as a leader.

[CaTeacher]

11. I was thinking of just a general discussion

of the problem. But--I have no problem with the mods moving this if they deem that it should be moved.

[girl gone mad]

13. I just wanted to point that out because..

I usually go straight to the GD2004 threads, and I would have missed this topic if I hadn't caught it at the top of the 'latest' page.

[CaTeacher]

15. I know!

It seems like that is getting to be the most active forum as the election heats up! Sometimes it is a tough call--I didn't feel like I had anything really pertinent to the election to say--so I went for general--but I have no problem with it being moved.

[Memekiller]

10. Harrass the media.

E-mail. Call. Boycott. Conservatives have been doing it for so long, the media trembles any time they run a story that drifts from the Republican talking points. We have to make them tremble every time they think of enabling the bottom feeders to lie to our faces.

[OHswingvoter]

14. You may want to be careful.

I do not know what the truth of the matter is. I do know that I will be voting for John Kerry in November. However I will tell you that there is something funny (funny-odd not funny-ha ha)about Mr. Kerry's record of service.
I joined the Marine Corps in 1970 one step ahead of the draft board and ended up spending 13 months in Vietnam involved in heavy combat. I was wounded three times but only once seriously (shot three times), the other two times were not major, on one occasion I caught some shrapnel across my thighs and back, the other time I was watching another platoon out on patrol that had gotten into a firefight with Charlie. I got thirsty so decided to climb up a nearby tree with my handy machete and get myself a coconut so I could drink the milk inside. Well Charlie overshot a mortar round and knocked me out of that damned tree. I ended up landing on my machete and sustaining a pretty bad injury. I got purple hearts for all three and every time I was back in combat within Eight weeks max. Now Kerry got three purple hearts, a bronze star and a silver star all in the space of four months and did it all without ever spending one day in the hospital. Well...as they like to say in my neck of the woods, "sorry but that dog won't hunt." I suspect that there is something suspicious about Mr. Kerry's service...not because I have any personal knowledge but because I have personal experience. Point is that its time to forget the 'Nam and move on to more pressing issues. I am going to vote for Kerry on that basis...if I had anything aginst him still...I wouldn't. But lets not go making him some kind of a damned hero or something because there is a lot of us vets who still recall his narrow ass cavorting around with Jane Fonda and others while us or are buddies were getting shot at. Its time to forgive and forget Vietnam...I aint going to pin a rose on his nose but I will forgive and forget. What is more important to me is that after six years in the Corps, I came home here to Northern Ohio and got on at the Ford Plant in Lima then after Fourteen and a Half years there it got closed. Thirteen and a Half years down the road and I am a damned janitor at the local college for about Forty Percent of what I was making when the Ford Plant closed. I hold Bush I personally responsible for my situation because it happened on his watch and his boy has just given us more of the same. Us regular guys...blue collar guys...we have to get Bush out if we are to survive in this country.
Your name says that you are a ca teacher and I am not sure what the hell that is but I figure you are probably a pretty smart fellow or lady as the case may be if you are some kind of a teacher. So teacher remember this...it ain't about Vietnam anymore...thats all over and done with...been done with a long time ago...its about guys like me...people like me who find it getting harder and harder to make a damned halfway decent living in this country every day. Its about the here and the now and the realities people are being forced to accept.

[CaTeacher]

18. Welcome to DU!!!

OHswingvoter!!!

:toast:

I do agree with you--Vietnam is in the past--and we need to focus on the future!

I feel terrible that you have been a victim of the * economy--hopefully things will be better soon.

I did not support the war--but I enjoyed hearing your story. I hope to hear more from you.

[Nordic]

20. fact: Kerry went, got shot at. Bush pussied out

That's the bottom line.

I suggest you read the accounts of the men who actually served with Kerry and who were eyewitnesses. There's a letter posted today that's brand new right here, from a man who's kept his mouth shut all these years and is now speaking out:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x769969

As far as your economic situation, well, yes, that's exactly what's wrong with Republican America is that they're helping the corporations ship our jobs out of the country and bring in illegal immigrants to take the rest for minimum wage.

The middle class is being destroyed.

[physioex]

22. As a Vietnam Veteran....

I find it rather strange you will not talk about the Chickenhawks Shrub and Dick in more detail.... Let's face it Shrub and Cheney supported the war and got deferments is that not a Chickenhawk?

[Skittles]

32. forgive and forget exactly WHAT???

KERRY IS A WAR HERO AND BUSH WAS AWOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HFishbine]

34. Well said

And welcome to DU.

[Tight_rope]

38. Welcome to DU OHswingvoter!

[AndyTiedye]

17. We Are Vulnerable to ALL Kinds of Attacks, Because THEY OWN THE NEWS!

Because of that, ANY attack they make, however scurrilous and unfounded,
gets lots of play on the media,
the Swift liars get their ads run on news programs FOR FREE,
while Kerry is being forced to dip into his $75 million a whole month
earlier than Bush*,
with possibly disasterous consequences for October when his money will
start to run out.

The substance of the attacks does not matter, only their ability to
have every attack they make be echoed by the supposedly fair and
balanced media.

[UnderPaidMinion]

19. Since they are Vets and fought in the war it's hard to diss them

I think most of them appear pissed that they were charged with war crimes and have a bone to pick with their accuser. It's too bad it has gotten to this point. They should have worked this out long ago.

[Nordic]

21. it's very easy to diss liars

Liars are scum.

Some vets are good, some vets are bad.

Some people are good, some people are bad.

If somebody's a lying scumbag, he deserves to get dissed. Being a veteran does not give you a magic shield.

And by the way, your post is the most hypocritical thing I've seen in a while. It doesn't even make sense.

Kerry's a veteran, so shouldn't that make it "hard to diss" him?

[CaTeacher]

23. Actually--I see the point

(even though I have been anti-war all my life--so I am not into giving lots of clout to someone just because they served--sorry)

But--it is harder to attack the ones who really have suffered a lot. People like McCain who were in a prison camp--or the guy in the Swift Boat ad--well--people are just more hesitant to attack them.

Also--people with a visible disability from their service--like Dole.

when did people get so weak? I remember when Stockdale was Perot's VP--I was in grad school--and the young Democrats used to sit around and mock his disability. Same thing with Dole when he was the candidate for Pres. Why do we treat disabled or POW vets with kid gloves now? I say get rid of the kid gloves and use the boxing gloves.

[Nordic]

24. I still don't get it

Kerry's a veteran. And he's being slimed.

How can you possibly let them get away with a double standard?

[CaTeacher]

I don't want them to get

away with it--I want to fight! I said--take off the damn kid gloves!!!

Let's fight them!

But--I do recognize that the double standard does exist...and that it does make our fight harder.

[Tsiyu]

27. First Of All

This is a frivolous affair that will be dealt with in the debates.

You cannot change some people's inability to hear the truth, but you can remind them that many of these people betraying Kerry are the same ones who lauded him only a few years ago.

Can someone heap approval on a guy in 1996 and then turn around and heap scorn on him in 2004 and have ANY credibility? Not in my mind.

[UnderPaidMinion]

25. I'm talking about the war crime charges

These guys resent being charged with war crimes by Kerry. Nothing about them being pissed about that is a lying issue.

[tkmorris]

26. Oh, horsepuckey

And you ought to know it.

When Kerry returned from Vietnam he spoke honestly about the things he saw there. To my knowlege he never singled out any of these individuals by name, and everything he claimed he saw occur there in general has been so well documented by others that I cannot believe there are people now disputing it.

The United States military did in fact commit what would be considered war crimes in southeast Asia. They did so at the behest of their superiors in the main, and when they acted on their own they did so with the tacit approval of the chain of command, as long as they could deny involvement. It was ugly, it was wrong, it was criminal, and it was NOT primarily the fault of the grunts. Those who led were to blame, and Kerry said so.

Kerry accused those "swift boat vets" of nothing he wasn't willing to share the blame for himself. This phony "outrage" they lay claim to fools no one except the already converted.

But, welcome to DU in any case. May I suggest that you donate during this funds drive? DU is a wonderful place, and it will continue to exist only as long we continue to fund it. Plus you get a spiffy little star to hang on your "I love me" wall and the ability to search for posts. Frankly I cannot remember how I ever lived without it.

[drhilarius]

28. He never charged these men directly...

if anything he simply stated the obvious-atrocities did occur (I'm sure other sites you frequent are prone to the historical revisionism that states otherwise). But your lovely straw-man was greatly appreciated.

[Piperay]

29. They were NOT charged with

war crimes by Kerry, Kerry never named anyone. If these vets are taking this personally maybe it is because there really is something there involving them but Kerry NEVER named anyone!


*sniff sniff sniff*...someone here is coming very close to not passing the 'sniff test'.

[Skittles]

31. NO SHIT

nt

[thebigidea]

33. are you saying we DIDN'T commit war crimes in Vietnam?

Are you saying there aren't pictures?

Are you saying there aren't well documented cases, complete with shattered lives and millions of graves?

[Skittles]

30. so because Kerry told the truth

that enables them to LIE?????? And WHAT was there to work out? The Viet Nam was ATROCIOUS and ATROCITIES WERE COMMITTED.

[Disturbed]

35. Slime, smear , lie and divert.

The Neo Fascists are experts.

[Tight_rope]

39. Welcome DU UnderPaidMinion!

[Tight_rope]

36. Don't let these bad ads get a ping from your cable box!

American's have the power to stop all of the nagative ads that are running.. Along with all the above suggestions. I say don't watch them. When the commerical isn't doing well eventually that pull it.