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Is McCain a stalking horse? I'm really beginning to think so

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LuckyTheDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:03 PM
Original message
Is McCain a stalking horse? I'm really beginning to think so
Edited on Sat Aug-02-08 11:04 PM by LuckyTheDog
John McCain's latest ads have been filled with a lot of transparent lies and juvenile statements. And, while the ads have hurt Obama (because some people are easily fooled) they have not helped McCain much. And in fact, such antics are bound to hurt McCain in the fall. They reduce his stature and could cause a backlash once people digest the whole thing a bit. McCain's people have to know this. So why are they doing it?

The strategy makes perfect sense if McCain's "job" here is to inflict as much damage on Obama as possible -- and to disorient Obama's campaign message -- only until the GOP convention.

The way I see it, McCain could step aside for "health reasons" just before or even during the convention. That move would gain sympathy for McCain by extension, help out the real nominee.

At the convention, a tearful Mitt Romney or Jeb Bush could then give a speech full of purple prose about McCain's patriotism. It would be highlighted by a tender moment during which McCain (looking sick) is brought to the podium to embrace the new nominee.

After the convention, commentators and surrogates would flood the airwaves with statements about McCain's "supremely patriotic act" -- and the story would dominate the news for at least a week. Later, the story would be kept alive by updates about McCain's "brave fight" against his cancer, heart problems... whatever.

Under such circumstances, criticism of McCain's dirty campaign would fade away. Why slam a sick old man who dropped out of the race for the good of America when he could have had the election, right? Criticism of McCain would be almost impossible. Any mention of the attack ads of July would seem petty and mean-spirited.

Meanwhile, the new nominee would be able to bask in the reflected glow of all the McCain worship and would be able to take "the high road" because McCain would have done the dirty work for him.

OK... Maybe this is all far-fetched. But stranger things have happened.

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deadmessengers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. I've suspected this for a while now.
McCain is simply too bad of a candidate for it to be real. My only question is how they managed to rig that many primaries without arousing obvious suspicion - as we've seen in 2000 and 2004, GOP vote-rigging efforts tend to be a bit "ham handed".
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
22. I thought *bush* was "too bad of a candidate for it to be real" in 2000.
And in 2004. Look what happened with that!
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Frances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. Actually, these ads are part of the same old, same old
Repub way of doing things. They are defining Obama before Obama gets a chance to define himself.

Unfortunately, Obama is such a perfect candidate that the Repubs have had to make ridiculous ads. We'll see whether they work long term.
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. The GOP nominee would easily be painted as illegitimate. Besides... Romney?Jeb???
man oh man.. that would be easy pickings...



They would need to nominate Gen.Petrus to not be laughed at.
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LuckyTheDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Petraeus ... I had not thought of that
I wonder....
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DFLforever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I've read a few places that Petraeus is rumored to be a Dem
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Motown_Johnny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. I was kidding, McGaffe is the best the GOP has to offer, sad as that is it's true
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vixengrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. Petraus would at least come off as being on top of the war in Iraq--
but he'd be still...uh, mostly on top of the war in Iraq? So they'd have to yank him off of, well, serious business to do political campaigning and such?

The GOP bench is getting pretty narrow when it comes to people who aren't major turn-offs. Jeb is impossible--no more Bushes for a awhile. Evangelicals do not like Romney, and he spent a lot of money finding out not a lot of other people do, either. So who do they have who is credibly presidential material?

Well it wasn't the other guys running this primary, that I can't help but say. Guiliani? (Bwaaaahhhaaaahahah! No.) Huckabee. (Right. Compassionate conservatism has always been a slogan, not a practice. I think he gives all kinds of people the willies, such as the people who take him seriously. And the people who don't.) Thompson--has a bad case of "the McCains"--he came off as old and just not even all that interested, even when he was running. As if it was a bother--you know, the way I don't think Johnny Mac bothers to pay attention to, uh, the ads he endorses or, you know, his own policies. Moving right along, there's always Ron Paul! He has a Ross Perot on Niacin feeling (Ross Perot would be Ron Paul on acid...) but I think he'd be better as a Bob Barr wingman! Wooooot! The one conservative libertarian bone in my body tingles when I think of that. I may require a transplant to get that thing out of me. Uncomfortable.

So who on the outside of Campaign '08 is GOP and full of "Get this Party Re-started?"

Orrin Hatch. If you want to kick it old-school you couldn't get older and he would come off as presidential. In a Mount Rushmore way even. Children often touch him on suspicion he is a sculpture. He's a classic conservative...but damn--he's a Mormon, and has suspect views on stem cells and immigration (which is to say--well-thought-out ones), even though he'd be the first to call libruls traitors...he'd be a hard sell. Dick Lugar--also not happening.

Newt Gingrich. You know, for the Family values. HAHHAAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Sniff. Sorry. I'm a comedienne at heart. No. He wrote porn. He divorces sick women and I dunno--he comes off as a prick. I know, I know. He's a back-stabbing troll who is a master at the politics of personal destruction, but I just think that might not be the way they should want to go this election. You know--with trolls.

Since she is likely to lose her Senate seat, go for broke, what the heck--stick Liddy Dole up in there. So, how does Obama face-off against a senator who happens to be female? Oh...um...nevermind. Except unlike Hillary....Liddy's kind of dumb. Just saying. Not everyone knows that. It's why Bob Dole talks in third person, to disassociate himself from watching her do politics.

Alan Keyes. What? Sorry. I drink a lot, I don't know what I'm posting about.

Condileeza Rice. Why not? August 6 PDB. Name was? Yeah. Thought so--out! Yes, she is a smart AA woman. And she doesn't want the job and it will show, like so much has shown across her face over the last seven years.

Unless they go all Hollywood and run Kelsey Grammar and Bruce Willis as their team, I think they are SOL for star-power right now.
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Phredicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. No way would McCrank step aside voluntarily;
The guy clearly sold his soul for this shot. I think what we're seeing now really is his best effort. And after all, dumb and crazy are two traits much admired among rethugs.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. I have believed this for a couple of months now.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. I don't believe for a second that McCain would VOLUNTARILY step aside.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. He might be too sick already, and this is his last mission. Soldiers LOVE missions,
especially when they are one way....
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Note key word 'voluntarily.'
Unless he's forced out, I can't see McCain stepping aside. He'd campaign from a hospital bed. He sold his integrity to get this job.
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
8. McCain isn't stepping aside. Trust me.
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DFLforever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
9. McCain is in it for the long haul.
Edited on Sat Aug-02-08 11:44 PM by DFLforever
He's in do or die mode at the moment. Push up Obama's negatives now or
go on to certain defeat after the conventions.

HRC did the same thing (although not so stupidly) after Wisconsin. I hope McCain has ultimately the same poor results.

editing for lots of typos.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. Never happen
Never in a million years.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-02-08 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. no way. He just turns nice after the convention and the media forgives him everything n/t
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
17. I disagree.... Stranger things have NOT happened.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
18. Sorry, not buying.
McCain is the best they have - as pitiful as that sounds.

They already know they've lost; after eight years of Bush, even the loyalist of Republicans have had enough.

If they think they have a real shot with Romney, they're already grooming him for 2012 - in the hopes that Obama will fall flat on his face, and they can step in and "save" the nation.

They're not going to dump McCain that close to the election, which would mean starting literally from scratch to "sell" his replacement to the voters.

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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
19. He's The Survivor Of A Demolition Derby
A year ago, I looked at the GOOP candidates...I think we had 9 of them at the time...each had their own niche...Mittens was for the rich, Hucklenutz was for the fundies, Thompson was the toast of Freeperville, Rudy atttracted the neo-cons...lots of small groups that were beginning to rip the party apart. The only candidate who was out there on his own was Gramps...no one was excited about him...and they hated other candidates more than they hated him.

Eventually almost every of the contenders cratered...with Gramps being the only one standing...and in many eyes, the "only hope". My bets are if you polled most GOOPers you'd find their support for Gramps is an inch thick...but who else do they have? Their "bench" is real thin...and the party has fractured under its own corruption and ineptitude. I can't see any "savior" stepping in...Raygun's dead.

Cheers...
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Ding ding ding!
You are exactly right in this analysis IMO. Looking at the Republican field in the early days, one was struck by the total lack of viability of each and every one of them, for one reason or another. (A few were especially weird and far out - remember Tommy "Gotta Go Right Now" Thompson?) Each and every one struck me as a complete loser. Just as you say, Little Jerk was the last one standing, and he got the nod.
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barack the house Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
20. McCain will be the nominee I can't see it changing really.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
21. I'm still not seeing Willard Romney on the GOP ticket.
He had more money than McCain plus huge leads in Iowa and New Hampshire and lost both Iowa and New Hampshire and that was just about it for his presidential hopes.

He remained in the race and won some more states, but they tended to be Mormon-heavy Utah-like places.

When John McCain is your nominee, you got serious problems. He doesn't speak very well. His anger is visible and troubling. There are tales from Senate confrontations for many years of his explosive outbursts. He doesn't seem to know anything about economics or foreign policy. He has clutched at the Bush war doctrine, which around 2/3rds of voters now strongly oppose. And he's flip-flopped more than a cartoon pancake.

But the Pukes are stuck with him. Their primary candidates field was notably miserable. I had written McCain off early on, but owing to the weak field, he emerged as their nominee. Giuliani could not have run a worse campaign than the one he did. Romney's Mormonism is not attractive to the no-brains fundie voters who comprise more than a third of the GOP base.

In a year of pathetic Republican hopefuls, someone like Fred Thompson actually looked good, at least for a while. Tommy Thompson stumbled on the national stage, revealing himself to be a clueless provincial.

Huckabee did better than Romney but comes off as flippant and superficial. He's entertaining in a freak show traveling circus kind of way but it's very difficult picturing him as the choice of the donor Republican class.

If you believe that powerful people work behind the political curtain to determine nomination outcomes, you have to conclude that they wanted McCain to win, or rather that they didn't want any of his primary opponents to be competitive, or you believe that things happened naturally and that McCain emerged as the choice owing to a weak field.

Either way, they're stuck with the old fool and I think it's going to be a real rough few months here for conservatives who face a well-financed and brilliantly-organized Democrat in November.
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Clear Blue Sky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
23. I don't think so...nt
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-03-08 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
25. You can't do what I'm suggesting in real life, but what the GOP needs and
Edited on Sun Aug-03-08 08:04 AM by Old Crusoe
will not get is a total rehaul.

They need to bring in a fleet of bulldozers and raze the joint and then start from scratch using better material to rebuild their party.

They need to remind themselves that the current polluted stream of Republican Party politics had snow at its source, to steal a line. Abraham Lincoln is more aligned with the Democratic Party now than with the Republican Party now.

The Pukes let the fundies in because the fundies were a reliable lockstep voting block and turned up in high numbers to support repressive ballot initiatives, sweeping Republican candidates into office up and down the ballot.

But now they're faced with an electoral disaster. Obama is strong and McCain is weak, plus Bush has been a miserable failure, plus they don't have the cash advantage they've had in the past, plus not even the fundie nutbags like McCain.

Their best ticket would be something like Danforth-Portman. John Danforth is a moderate Republican from swing state Missouri and a minister to boot, and Rob Portman, a budget-type Republican from swing state Ohio.

The reason the Republicans are in big trouble is that Danforth is unelectable in a Republican primary owing to the fundies' objections. Danforth is too conservative for me but he's WAY too liberal for the fundie nutbags. You have to burn down libraries in broad daylight to win the fundies' vote, and Danforth isn't cut from that cloth.

So the hinge is that the very people who could put the Republicans back into viability and make it a more hopeful race for them in November are at the hands of their own base unelectable.

They killed off Piggy in Golding's novel, LORD OF THE FLIES, even though Piggy was the smartest among the bunch and could have devised a plan that would lead to their rescue. They broke his glasses, and then they killed him.

That's what the GOP has done to itself and to its brighter* lights. They've staged a Piggy-style hit on the moderates and in the dusty wake have nominated John McCain.

They're getting what they paid for.
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