What happens if the Hillary supporters nominate her for VP at the convention?

[Thrill]

And she actually gets the votes? What then happens to Obama's pick?

[gateley]

1. Interesting question, and I'll add to it -- Has this ever occurred before? nt

[tekisui]

2. If HIllary beats Obama's pick(and his pick is not HIllary)

Hillary gets it.

[Thrill]

5. Wow interesting. I think this has more potential to happen than her letting herself be nominated

for the nomination

[billyoc]

3. In that case, I become the presidential nominee, and Hugo Chavez is my VP.

:eyes:

[Whisp]

4. ugh.

funny timing but hubby was reading up on the constitution yesterday, and one oddball fact we found is that the vp was not chosen by the president, as it is now, but by electoral votes, if I recall correctly. Now I have no idea what amendment and when replaced this, if there ever was one.

[billyoc]

10. The 12th Amendment changed the Pres./VP to a single ticket.

[Peregrine]

12. The VP is still chosen by a separate vote by the EC

Originally the VP was the person who got the 2nd most EC votes. Each elector had 2 votes and the Constitution didn't distinguish between Pres and VP electoral votes. In 1800 Jefferson and Burr tied in the EC due to this. Burr was the VP candidate but received the same number of electoral votes as Jefferson. Ultimately the House would choose Jefferson as President. After that the electoral votes were separated. Each elector has a pres vote and a VP vote.

[Hamlette]

46. but not at the convention

[high density]

6. No thanks

Don't need the oil and water ticket. We tried that in 2004 and it sucked.

[Metric System]

7. Interesting idea. I think I like it. It certainly would be a way to show how much support she has

without challenging Obama for the Presidential nomination.

[TwilightGardener]

9. Obama has earned the right to choose his VP.

[Metric System]

18. Well then why is the vote for VP possible at all? The RULES are the rules after all. And the rules

allow it. And yes, Obama won, but just barely.

[TwilightGardener]

19. I don't remember any recent President being forced to take a VP at the

convention. That would be an insanely ugly scene, and cause us to lose. The GOP are licking their chops for more Operation Chaos. If you are seriously suggesting this is a good idea, then you need to deprogram yourself of your cult-love for Hillary.

[Metric System]

22. I don't remember any nominee being so hard-headed about the best VP choice.

[TwilightGardener]

25. Wow. Sorry Obama didn't consult you for your opinion, but just as Hillary

would have earned the right to choose whom she wanted as VP, Obama has earned the right to choose as well. He has to be comfortable working with this person, it's HIS Presidency, his agenda, his administration. Bill and Hill already had THEIRS--8 years, for chrissakes--why should they be allowed to hijack the ticket? This would be the ultimate desperate, naked grab for power, and I would truly fear for Obama's life if Hillary forced her way onto the ticket, rather than his choosing her of his own freewill. Fortunately, it's extremely unlikely.

[tekisui]

27. What are you talking about?

You don't know who is in consideration.

You don't know who would be the best pick.

[Metric System]

30. Obama said that Hillary would be on anybody's VP short-list. We have since come to find out that she

was never being considered, PERIOD. Roland Martin on CNN has confirmed this. So what was Obama's statement all about? Was he lying? Trying to string along disaffected Hillary supporters? It's very troubling statement given what we now know about the way the Obama camp feels about Hillary as VP.

[tekisui]

31. She has high negatives, they have the numbers.

And how does Roland Martin know who is being considered. It could end up being Hillary. Just because she got runner up in the Primaries does not make her the best pick.

She would rally the puke base against the ticket and scratch old wounds.

[Metric System]

32. Martin inferred on CNN that he heard it directly from Obama himself. And my post wasn't about

Hillary would be good or bad for the ticket. My post was about Obama saying one thing and we now know there's no truth to the statement.

[tekisui]

40. I was responding to your post about Obama being "hard headed"

about picking the "best VP".

I think you are very wrong on that.

[Indenturedebtor]

77. How does this sound "You would make any guy very happy."

Does that sound like a wedding proposal to you? :shrug:

[Flying Dream Blues]

36. And if you think Hillary would have chosen Obama, think again. nt

[Hieronymus]

76. He said she'd be on anybody's short list ... far from saying she was his choice.

[Lisa0825]

60. meow?

:shrug:

[Beacool]

41. The DNC only cares about the rules when it favors their chosen candidate.

Under the rules, Hillary would be the VP because she came second, and a very closed second at that, in PD. She won't demand it, but she could if she wanted to. All this talk that it's up to the nominee to choose his VP is BS.

[TwilightGardener]

43. Yeah, most Presidents don't choose their VP's. A brief review of history confirms that.

:wtf:

[Beacool]

62. Technically she could demand it.

When nominations were resolved in back room deals, the vice president was whoever came in second. In modern elections, the nominee usually has won by a wide enough margin that they have chosen their own VP. This year both top candidates came a hair from each other and the nominee won only thanks to the SDs. So yes, she could fight for it, but she would never do it.

[Mojorabbit]

72. That would be lovely

The press could have a field day with it on the night he gets the nomination. Nothing like making a circus out of it. His speech would be overshadowed by the press going into hyperdrive about the "division" in the party. Yes, it would be great. :sarcasm:

[Justitia]

74. don't bother, you're talking to the delusional -eom

[davidpdx]

75. Primary rehash?

Yep, that's what I thought.

[Whisp]

68. rules are rules! except the Fl and Michigan ones. n/t

[Justitia]

73. "just barely" - ROFLMAO

[mtnester]

83. 1972 VP vote from Wiki

Thomas Eagleton - 1,742 (59.07%)
Frances Farenthold - 405 (13.73%)
Mike Gravel - 226 (7.66%)
Endicott Peabody - 108 (3.66%)
Clay Smothers - 74 (2.51%)
Birch Bayh - 62 (2.10%)
Peter W. Rodino - 57 (1.93%)
Jimmy Carter - 30 (1.02%)
Shirley Chisholm - 20 (0.68%)
Moon Landrieu - 19 (0.64%)
Edward T. Breathitt - 18 (0.61%)
Ted Kennedy - 15 (0.51%)
Fred R. Harris - 14 (0.48%)
Richard G. Hatcher - 11 (0.37%)
Harold Hughes - 10 (0.34%)
Joseph Montoya - 9 (0.31%)
William L. Guy - 8 (0.27%)
Adlai Stevenson III - 8 (0.27%)
Robert Bergland - 5 (0.17%)
Hodding Carter - 5 (0.17%)
César Chávez - 5 (0.17%)
Wilbur Mills - 5 (0.17%)
Wendell Anderson - 4 (0.14%)
Stanley Arnold - 4 (0.14%)
Ron Dellums - 4 (0.14%)
John J. Houlihan - 4 (0.14%)
Roberto A. Mondragon - 4 (0.14%)
Reubin O'Donovan Askew - 3 (0.10%)
Herman Badillo - 3 (0.10%)
Eugene McCarthy - 3 (0.10%)
Claiborne Pell - 3 (0.10%)
Terry Sanford - 3 (0.10%)
Ramsey Clark - 2 (0.07%)
Richard J. Daley - 2 (0.07%)
John DeCarlo - 2 (0.07%)
Ernest Gruening - 2 (0.07%)
Roger Mudd - 2 (0.07%)
Edmund Muskie - 2 (0.07%)
Claude Pepper - 2 (0.07%)
Abraham A. Ribicoff - 2 (0.07%)
Hoyt Patrick Taylor, Jr. - 2 (0.07%)
Leonard F. Wodcoock - 2 (0.07%)
Bruno Agnoli - 2 (0.07%)
Ernest Albright - 1 (0.03%)
William A. Barrett - 1 (0.03%)
Daniel Berrigan - 1 (0.03%)
Philip Berrigan - 1 (0.03%)
Julian Bond - 1 (0.03%)
Skipper Bowles - 1 (0.03%)
Archibald Burton - 1 (0.03%)
Phillip Burton - 1 (0.03%)
William Chappell - 1 (0.03%)
Lawton Chiles - 1 (0.03%)
Frank Church - 1 (0.03%)
Robert Drinan - 1 (0.03%)
Nick Galifianakis - 1 (0.03%)
John Z. Goodrich - 1 (0.03%)
Michael Griffin - 1 (0.03%)
Martha Griffiths - 1 (0.03%)
Charles Hamilton - 1 (0.03%)
Patricia Harris - 1 (0.03%)
Jim Hunt - 1 (0.03%)
Daniel Inouye - 1 (0.03%)
Henry M. Jackson - 1 (0.03%)
Robery Kariss - 1 (0.03%)
Allard K. Lowenstein - 1 (0.03%)
Mao Zedong - 1 (0.03%)
Eleanor McGovern - 1 (0.03%)
Martha Beall Mitchell - 1 (0.03%)
Ralph Nader - 1 (0.03%)
George Norcross III - 1 (0.03%)
Jerry Rubin - 1 (0.03%)
Fred Seaman - 1 (0.03%)
Joe Smith - 1 (0.03%)
Benjamin Spock - 1 (0.03%)
Patrick Tavolacci - 1 (0.03%)
George Wallace - 1 (0.03%)

[KittyWampus]

14. her support looks like a small group of screwed-up women in someone's backyard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8gdU_1MM44

[ronnykmarshall]

52. Scewed up women?

Oh that's nice.

[TheBigotBasher]

21. It would do nothing

but further division and create talking points for Repugs. Also how would the non Obama VP pick feel about walking into Invesco?

Invesco is a brilliant move by Obama, it serves as a bodyguard of 70,000 people against 20 KKK types.

[iconicgnom]

38. Oh yah, wiat a super idea. To force Hillary and Bill on Obama -- what an admin that'd make!

[GoesTo11]

78. Theory vs. practice

If it would have no impact on the prospects for winning in November, that would be one thing. But it would have the effect of undercutting Obama's leadership from the start. Look, we already know how much support she has and we won't forget. 18 million voters, many of them true believers. That doesn't mean that anything that shows that support is worthwhile. What if, to show how much support Hillary had, all 18 million chose to stay home in November? Same idea, but more extreme, and bad for the same reason.

[CakeGrrl]

8. Hopefully that won't come to pass

If HRC forces her way onto the ticket against Obama's choice, that will NOT create very positive energy for the ticket.

Hopefully this is all just MSM-enhanced noise to create a distraction away from John McCain's crappy candidacy.

[truthN08]

11. I know this sounds all conspiracy theory and all

But maybe this is why Obama hasn't announced his VP yet. Maybe he knows what she is trying to jocking for being nominated for VP and he doesn't want to embarrass his choice and himself at the convention if she is chosen for him.

This is just sad.

[democrattotheend]

17. Do you really think she wants to be VP that badly?

I honestly am not sure what she gains politically by forcing herself onto the ticket. If she did that and they lost she'd never get another chance to run for president...she'd be persona non-grata in the party. I am honestly surprised she even wants the VP slot at all...if she really believes Obama can't win, isn't she better off sitting it out and hoping for another chance in 4 years? And if he does win, would she really rather be VP than stay in the Senate and become a powerhouse there? She'll be 68 in 2016 and people tend to get sick of the same party after 8 years...only 2 sitting vice presidents have ever been elected president in US history. She'd have a better chance of winning in 2016 if she is not VP than if she is, and she'll have a better chance in 2012 if Obama loses if she was not on the ticket. So I am surprised she even wants the VP slot at all...I can't imagine she wants it enough to force herself onto the ticket.

[Whisp]

69. sure, since Cheney changed the rules and powers of VP

she'd be in the drivers seat.
:puke:

[Life Long Dem]

13. So it's said, we lose if Hillary is VP, and we lose if she is not VP.

I'd take my chances with the latter and let them break from the team. They do and we lose it's because they were not team players.

[Lilith Velkor]

53. If you throw someone off your team, you don't get to blame them if you lose.

Pretending 50.1% of the vote is a mandate is Bush-level stupid.

[Life Long Dem]

58. No one threw anyone off the team.

Making threats is splitting from the team.

[Lilith Velkor]

63. Who's making threats?

The OP is a hypothetical question.

[Life Long Dem]

79. Supporters threatening to go awol or vote McSame if Clinton isn't chosen as VP

Even though the majority of the Democratic team is against this and it's idea. Since the threat is in the desertion from the party itself or absent from it, Clinton supporters who are not team players (with the majority)who leave because the rest of us deeply feel Clinton as VP is a very bad idea and we lose because of this - then it is those ones at fault for losing the election to McSame.

I don't think it is going to happen but threatening only puts the fault where it belongs.

Bottom line - if your a team player you go with what the team wants and not against what the Democratic team wants.

[Lilith Velkor]

82. Well, if you want those supporters, you choose Clinton

If you don't choose Clinton, you obviously don't want their votes.

And if you don't want their votes, you don't get to blame them if you don't get them.

But if you're Bush-level stupid, of course you will. Ask him about how the "blame the Clintons for everything" strategy worked out for his team.

[Peacetrain]

15. Hillary is not that stupid.

The woman is brilliant, she is not going to kneecap her legacy with a stunt like that.

[KittyWampus]

16. were you paying attention to her performance during the Primaries?

[Peacetrain]

20. The boat has sailed

and Hillary Clinton knows that. Granted there are some who really want that ticket, but it is not a good match. If Hillary had gotten the nod, Obama would NOT be a good match for her.

Two very powerful personalities. And a lot of water under those bridges.

[Lilith Velkor]

54. Policywise, they are alike as two peas in a pod

Remember when the leftists here used to refer to them as "Hillbama?"

[DevonRex]

23. Things I used to believe and say vehemently:

Bill Clinton is too smart to ever have an affair with an intern.

Bill Clinton wouldn't have TIME to have an affair. He's president, for God's sake.

After having to eat my words, I don't rule anything out anymore.

[Metric System]

24. Yeah, you're real classy.

[DevonRex]

28. Hey, it is NOT my fault that...

he did those things. And after having defended him over and over again to any who would listen, AND having to eat crow over it, I think I kind of have the right to mention having been duped before. And that is why I won't rule anything out about their intentions. I'm too cynical now. I wish I could put the genie back in the bottle, but I'm afraid it's too late.

And THAT is not my fault, either. I learned the hard way that even very intelligent people do screwed up things and then lie right to your face about it.

[Phx_Dem]

42. So are the Clintons.

[Peacetrain]

26. I hear you on that,

But I think Hillary is heads up smarter than Bill Clinton. Now Bill, he would be all over that, that is right up his alley. He is such a political animal.

But you are right, a person can't rule out anything. Whew that would just be such a gift for McCain, if they had that kind of battle at the convention.

[DevonRex]

29. I'm also not ruling out that Hillary is much to smart to do that. Just

so folks know that I am not passing official judgment or anything.

And I think that if she had run her campaign the way SHE wanted to, without the bad advice from Bill and Penn, she just might have been successful. So perhaps she has learned to listen to her own counsel on political matters now. She is much closer to what democrats want than Bill is these days, so her experience and intuition should guide her. And I hope it does.

[Peacetrain]

35. Oh my God Jennifer, she got the worst of the worst advice

Here in Iowa, it was just a disaster. They did her a great dis justice. They should demand their money back from Penn. But that was then, and boy am I glad those primaries are over!. But is was a study in how your supporters can do you more damage than good.

My brother was one of her biggest supporters in South Dakota. He got on the Obama express, the day after the SD primary. (My son was the whip for Biden, while we were Obama..talk about some interesting discussions on the home front :rofl:)

I think there are great things ahead for Hillary, but it is not as an embattled VP, it would be the MSM's pipe dream. That would be all we would hear about. Whether true or not.. They would just make it up, because it would feed the MSM's need for juice.

I am feeling really in the real world here.. Things are looking very positive for Obama with our working class voters!! :pals:

[AllentownJake]

33. If Obama is elected

After such a stupid fiasco that divides the party in half. They feel his wrath.

[highplainsdem]

34. Then we'd have a winning ticket. That prospect horrifies you, apparently.

[scheming daemons]

45. You can't have a winning ticket if the top of the ticket is resentful about not getting his pick

[David Zephyr]

37. Good God Almighty! Hillary is already Obama's pick.

She is the VP.

[Peacetrain]

39. I bet you a cup of coffee and sweet roll that it is NOT

Hillary. I think it might be Bayh. He is a little on the milquetoast side for me. But I think it might be him :)

[unapatriciated]

47. I think you might be right about Bayh.

I also believe that both Obama and Hillary have strong personalities and would not be a good match even if she had won the primary.
She is too smart to push for VP and might be more valuable to his administration in a cabinet position.

[Peacetrain]

48. My thoughts exactly.

Either way would not have worked. Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama. She has been dogged about her health care initiative since the first Clinton term. I bet you dollars to doughnuts Hillary would love nothing more than to be the one who spearheads health care and put all those boo birds to bed. :)..A cabinet post, for that initiative. Thats' what its going to take for sure

[unapatriciated]

49. Agree, it's going to take all of our best minds to get this country on the right track..

Edwards, Clark and Feingold would also be excellent choices for his cabinet.

[Arnold Judas Rimmer]

71. If anyone should get a cabinet level post for a health care initiative

It should be Dennis Kucinich. If were going to fix health care, let's do it right (HR 676) and not waste time with a corporatist shell game like Hillary was campaigning on.

[quaker bill]

57. There is at least

a one in a million chance that you are correct. Not much better than 1 in a million, but then my chances are probably no worse than one in 2 million, and I am not even going to be at the convention.

[anonymous171]

44. Cagefight.

[4themind]

50. UFC make it happen-nt

[ronnykmarshall]

51. She will not allow it.

[WeDidIt]

55. Hillary becomase the Veep nominee and the Dems lose

because Hillary would have made Obama look weak.

[quaker bill]

56. If her supporters nominate her

they will lose the floor vote and it will be an embarrasment to the entire party in prime time. This will not happen.

[TexasObserver]

59. Obama controls the chair and the convention.

Do you think Hilly's aging army is going to attack the stage and seize the mike?

[book_worm]

61. It won't happen. She will not stampede the convention.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

64. In 1972, McGovern got the nomination.

Frances "Sissy" Farenthold, a Houston attorney and 1972 candidate for Governor of Texas, got the second highest number of delegate votes at the Democratic convention, so she should have gotten the Vice-Presidential nomination. She didn't.

It was McGovern-Eagleton and then McGovern-Shriver.

[appleannie1]

65. I read that someone has to sign something, making themselves available for the slot.

She did not sign it and said she has no interest in the position. Without that signature, even if her name was brought up, she could not be voted for. I do not know if it is true or not.

[appleannie1]

66. Here is something on it.

The New York Daily News is reporting that a “source close to” Hillary Clinton has ”confirmed she won’t file a formal request to the convention asking to be nominated along with Barack Obama.”

Party rules stipulate that Clinton must ask in writing to be nominated herself and also submit a petition signed by 300 to 600 delegates. Without her signed request, petitions of support are meaningless.

But, the New York Daily News notes, as other media sources have in recent weeks, that “personally and through surrogates, Clinton has counseled her 1,886 delegates to vote for Obama.”
http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2008/08/01/hillary-clinton-asks-not-to-be-nominated-at-dem-convention/

[Beacool]

67. That's a daring idea.........

I just hope that I have enough popcorn in the house.

:popcorn:

[Franc_Lee]

70. They can nominate their brains out, Hillary doesn't have the enough delegate votes...

[TexasObserver]

80. She is delusional, so logic may not rule the day.

[barack the house]

81. Hillary has to state that she wants it she is respecting his decision I hear up to him really.

[TheKentuckian]

84. The line of thinking that if Clinton is not on the ticket

that her voters are unwanted or shunned is ridiculous!!!

They are supposed to be Democrats. They are supposed to support our platform. They are supposed to care about the country.

That sentiment is bullshit. Everyone else has got behind the past nominees, especially when there is no major platform difference. This is not about issues but personality and I consider the tact as unacceptable. This country is going in the wrong direction double time and we cannot afford a bunch of nonsense. It's a shame that a few are trying to make this general election about placating hurt feelings and pride in a candidate over going after independents and winning the damn election.

[Phoonzang]

85. That's why he should have picked his Veep this week...

By waiting until the convention this is happens. I mean how could they not know this would happen?

[SwampG8r]

86. we all laugh real hard and then they really nominate someone