High drama, and why Hillary is not going to be VP (updated)

[ProSense]

August 14, 2008

Clinton in nomination

A Clinton aide confirms Marc Ambinder's report that Hillary's name will be placed into nomination at the convention, giving her a larger procedural and symbolic role during the event, and offering a look backward at her near-miss primary.

Despite the occasional tensions both at the tops of the campaigns and among their supporters, the actual convention planning appears to be coming off without major controversies.

Marc notes that the process could be used to give Clinton a public, symbolic moment to turn her delegates over to Obama.

Obama And Hillary Reach Deal On How To Conduct Convention

By Greg Sargent - August 14, 2008, 10:53AM

The Hillary and Obama campaigns have finally reached an official deal on how to handle her role at the convention -- her name will be placed in nomination, as a way to assuage her embittered supporters and minimize the possibility of strife at the Denver gathering, according to two sources familiar with the deal.

Obama and Hillary advisers decided that this course was preferable to having her name not introduced, the sources say.

One source confirmed that there will be a roll call vote at the convention, probably on the third day, with her name in entrance, and that Hillary will encourage her supporters to vote for Obama.

"This will recognize the historic nature of the primaries, honor the voices of everyone who participated, and help with party unity," the source says.

The second source says that the Hillary campaign, under pressure from its supporters, expressed concern about her backers making noise at the gathering and finding a way for their voices to be heard. The Obama campaign was also considering how to ensure that and offered the idea of putting her name in nomination, the source says.

more

(emphasis added)

Good grief!

[Bacchus39]

1. or she's not going to be VP anyway so that is why she is doing this n/t

n/t

[Mist]

3. Yes, I'm wondering just what she hopes to accomplish by this. nt

[Whisp]

30. you bet that's it.

I knew she officially was off the list when Bill gave that tepid speech a couple weeks ago.
That was pouty sour grapes if I ever heard it.

They would not pull this shit if she were in line for vp or an important appointment. they are rolling around the floor and crying and stamping their feet like spoiled brats in a shopping mall.

she probably wasn't offered anything of significance in obama's pres team either, and thank god for that, who needs 2 backstabbing pieces of shit to watch over all the time.

[JackORoses]

36. Tell it like it is!

[AtomicKitten]

57. Right on.

[1Hippiechick]

59. LOL...why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel! Love it! LOL n/t

[AtomicKitten]

2. I get the impression some Clintonites think this will force her on the ticket as VP.

[Hepburn]

4. IMO, I think they are looking at higher stakes than that...

...and will try and get her nominated at the top of the ticket.

JMHO

[AtomicKitten]

5. I agree that is their priority.

IMO this is just another ploy to drag out the primary once she ran out of states to compete in. They seem incapable of processing her defeat.

[Hepburn]

6. Hillary as the Dem nominee for POTUS '08...

...to some it is an absolute and "defeated" does not appear to be in their vocabulary. Yep, I totally agree ~~ they are not able to process the fact that she lost.

[1Hippiechick]

44. HRC would not settle for the VP role--I think she would "rewrite" the VP role as a co-Presidency

Hole's getting deeper.......she's not gonna be able to claw her way out of this one, IMO.

[Hepburn]

48. I hear ya...

...and totally agree. IMO, she would want a co-presidency of 3 people with her at top rank, then Bill and then Barack.

JMHO

[Whisp]

68. cheney has already rewritten the VP role.

so she would jump right in and take it over as is and have as much or more power than obama.

wretched creatures.

[windbreeze]

10. According to a once a week paper

we receive out here in the sticks, one of her delegates who's going to Denver, had exactly that scenario in mind, and didn't hesitate to say so...the comment she made, was that HRC has this many delegates, and since some of the SD were changing their vote back to her from Obama, she deserves nothing less than VP....this delegate WAS going with the specific intent of forcing Obama to put her on the ticket as VP...myself, I'm with the poster who says they're after more than that...a fatal mistake for any candidate...includes underestimating an opponent...let's hope Obama is NOT that much of a novice, does understand how cutthroat politics can be, and is planning for just about anything....I have to say, in the beginning, I thought all this talk was just sour grapes too, but reading it with your own eyes in a little paper like ours, has a tendency to make a person pay attention... wb

[AtomicKitten]

15. Interesting perspective from "the sticks" ;)

This whole mess has become a charade. I have seen posts from people who crosspost on caphill saying they are poo-poo'ing the notion of an attempted coup here at DU to try to keep it on the down low.

I'm a firm believer in forewarned is fair-warned, and their objective is crystal clear.

[windbreeze]

29. uh huh

I was afraid of that....although after reading about this one Clinton delegate's purpose, I can't say I'm surprised...To top it off, my state went overwhelmingly for Obama...damn!! wb

[Skwmom]

16. Forcing a nomination vote serves more than one purpose.

1. She could win the nomination.
2. She could use it to force her way onto the ticket.
3. If something happens to Obama, she'll remind everyone that she was clearly the second choice at the convention and will demand to be named the replacement candidate.
4. If all else fails, split the party and start planning for 2012.

[windbreeze]

23. I have read every post in this thread

and the strange thing is...I have seen only one poster who brings up and accuses the other posters of harboring "hate for Clinton"...what I wonder, is why questioning what is going on, cannot be discussed without the meme "hate for Clinton" or "bashing Clinton" or "rehashing the primaries" being thrown in...Why is it, that questioning a candidate or her supporters' intent, translates necessarily into hate?????....It seems to me, Obama supporters are NOT being allowed to discuss what could be, and according to the paper I have in my possession, IS, a very real possibility....w/o someone jumping in with what appears to be an attempt to get the thread locked..

I suppose I could copy that article out of the paper we got about the Clinton Delegate who's going to the convention expressly WITH the intent to force Obama to put HRC on as VP...would that then make questions about what might happen at convention a viable subject to discuss?? Seems to me it's important for all of us to recognize that not all Democrats are on the same page....especially since those exact differences could undermine the entire election...refusing to acknowledge that fact, could end up being pretty risky...wb

[Erin Elizabeth]

70. The phenomenon is interesting here at DU.

On other left-leaning sites, you can be quite open about your negative feelings on Clinton, without having anyone take you to task for it.

[Willo]

72. It is meant to shut down

any criticism, discussion or mention of the Clintons that is or may be negative.

Every comment of these types are attacked en masse, in screeching outrage, with off-point and out-of-left-field defensive arguments.
No one can tolerate that (screeching in the ear) for long, not even the mods. Discussions that do start, get hijacked into arguments and are ultimately locked.

Many people get weary and just give up discussing anything Clinton on here. So to that end it works. Does that change what people think, feel remember, or plan to do? Not at all. This is only a discussion site but actions speak louder than words.

[1Hippiechick]

60. Love your signature line. How I wish! Clark has MY vote! n/t

[Metric System]

7. Oh look! The usual suspects are gathering to rehash the primaries and get their Clinton hate on. GET

OVER IT!

[Sulawesi]

11. Get over it? You are telling Obama's supporters to get over it? Get over what? Winning?

Do you think it is important to have a roll call and for people to vote for Hillary? Why? Does it help get Obama elected? If so, how? If not, why?

[Lilith Velkor]

54. Yes, get over it and quit being sore winners

It is important to have the roll call so that the talk of the nomination being stolen is limited to the tinfoil hatters.

If she is shut out of the roll call (which has never happened before) then the charges of sexism and gaming the nomination will stick. That will hurt Obama in the general.

[Diane R]

12. It's hard to get over it when Hillary and Bill clearly have not gotten over it.

I'm a fifty-ish woman, and had lunch a few days ago with another fifty-ish woman.

We both agreed that it was humiliating to see the first woman run for president....and then watch her spend months, after she had clearly lost, insisting her 'feelings' be respected.

Chris Dodd got over it. Bill Richardson got over it. Dennis Kucinich got over it. Joe Biden got over it. John Edwards......forgot about it really, really fast.

Hillary gripes about being treated with 'sexism', then pouts and stomps her feet to the convention and will have to be pulled out the door kicking and screaming.

It's embarrassing for all us women.

[beac]

27. Yup!

I said basically the same thing in another thread and was accused of being "an idiot" who is "re-fighting the primary."

Hells bells, there is nothing I want MORE than the fighting about the primary to be OVER, but Hillary and her rabid PUMAs can't seem to let it go.

As a forty-ish woman, it infuriates me to see them playing out the worst stereotypes about women while crying "sexism" at the top of their lungs.

:banghead:

[Growler]

39. agreed!

it's embarrassing and makes me cringe. She is a terrible role-model.

[Beacool]

53. Oh, please............

All the drama simply because she wants something that all other candidates have been entitled to in previous elections.

Geez!!!!!!!!!

:eyes:

[butterfly77]

46. I drink to that..

[XemaSab]

49. I've been saying this for months

All this "delicate feelings" crap is rolling the women's movement back 20 years. :(

[Beacool]

52. Neither of these people got as many PDs and votes as Hillary.

Why shouldn't she receive the same treatment as all the men who came before her and have a roll call? As a woman I would think that you and your friend would respect that.

[Diane R]

66. She is demanding treatment that hasn't been given a 'loser' for 16 years. Hillary's temper tantrum.

[Whisp]

69. I so agree with that.

She's crying that sexism lost her nom, then grabs onto the stereotypical 'feminine wiles' ways - from crying at NH, to 'what does Hillary really want?' to mama bear yelling Shame On You!, etc. Then she puts her big shorts on and threatens to 'obliterate' Iran to show how 'strong' she is, just as strong and dumb as any other war mongering man.

pyscho material.

[marshall]

22. Please send that message to HRH HRC!

This discussion is brought about by the news of the Denver plans. It isn't some rehash pulled out of thin air. I know it's hard to believe but this is her and her lackeys doing.

[Shakespeare]

26. Oh look! You're still whining.

Cry wolf, cry wolf, cry wolf.

[Erin Elizabeth]

71. I'm trying to get over Obama winning the nomination

but it's hard. Oh wait, no it's not. LOL.

[TexasObserver]

8. It's the closest she'll ever get to the presidency, so let her have her moment.

It sure gets old. Her need for attention is really neurotic.

[1Hippiechick]

62. "It's the closest she'll ever get to the presidency.." Amen! This crap won't be forgotten. n/t

[Metric System]

9. High drama? You must have missed this part: "the actual convention planning appears to be coming off

without major controversies." But whatever suits your agenda...

[mkultra]

20. yeah, the only drama is that surrounding Hillary and her ardent supporters

good point.

[mloutre]

21. Meow, meow, meow.

[RaleighNCDUer]

13. I'm fine with this, as long as everybody in both camps keeps trumpeting

that it is a SYMBOLIC nomination. We know who the nominee is, and the point of this SYMBOLIC nomination of Hillary is to bring the dead-enders into the Obama camp, acknowledging her historic campaign but aimed at uniting the camps, not further dividing them or putting up a last-minute insurrection.

[madmom]

25. Seems like you're the only one who actually read the article.

[CakeGrrl]

38. They can say it's symbolic...but Obama had better "lawyer up"

and keep close tabs on both the pledged and superdelegates in his column. Maybe he has a team working on retaining them or bringing SDs over from HRC. I don't believe Team Obama ever falls asleep at the wheel, especially after how the Primaries went down.

[raebrek]

14. Why do I get the feeling

That Hillary Clinton is in front of a mirror someplace practicing her surprised look?


Raebrek!!!

[Spazito]

17. It's all about the Clintons, it has always been about the Clintons...

Screw the party, screw the country, the Clintons care ONLY about the Clintons and that will NEVER change, imo.

It is obvious to me the Clintons would rather see Obama lose and McCain win than to accept the FACT that the Democratic party chose Obama over Hillary.

It is appalling and despicable, imo.

[Mudoria]

18. Thanks for your concern

[Spazito]

19. Not concern, simply the facts

Enjoy the attempted coup, hopefully it fails miserably otherwise the world will have to deal with 8 more years of neocon crap.

[TexasObserver]

28. If the Clintons do anything other than give full, vigorous support for Obama at the convention ...

... it will be time to strip them of all power once the election is over. Hillary can be stripped of her good committee assignments and given the subcommitte on weight and measures, or some such inconsequential committee assignments. She has to prove she's helping the ticket, for the next three months. If she doesn't she's finished as a player in this party. Hell, she has no power in senate, anyway.

[Spazito]

31. Oh, they will "give full support" alright while giving the wink, wink, nod, nod, to....

their "supporters", do the proverbial shrug denoting they have no control over their supporters and, darn, their "supporters" want her as, preferably, the nominee or, at the very least, the VP nominee.

This is, imo, simply another version of the famous Clintonian "triangulation" and it stinks beyond belief.

Do I believe she will be either the nominee or the VP nominee, no, I do not but it won't be for lack of trying on the part of both the Clintons and their "supporters".

I put "supporters" in quotation marks because, imo, they are focused on taking down Obama even over their so-called candidate of choice or the risk of losing the election to the neocons.

[TexasObserver]

35. Hillary is directly responsible for her supporters.

If they do not come through, it means she isn't a leader at all. If she were, she could lead her supporters. If she's merely an icon to represent their racial antipathy toward Obama, she's not their leader, she's just their token emblem.

[Spazito]

37. She is responsible for her "supporters"....

and yet they are still trying to push her onto the ticket, go figure. Either she cannot control them and, therefore, shows she lacks leadership or is using her leadership skills to ensure they continue to push for her on the ticket.

Which is it I wonder?

[Growler]

40. yup.

[Lilith Velkor]

55. Barack told you to be nice to her supporters

Does the fact that you are still calling them racists mean he is a poor leader?

[1Hippiechick]

63. I like the way you think. n/t

[Beacool]

34. Oh please, cry me a river.........

:eyes:

[1Hippiechick]

64. Uhhhhhh...I don't think it will be the Obama supporters crying a river......n/t

[1Hippiechick]

42. Well said. Let's see what happens and how strongly she "encourages" her fans to support Obama

She and Bill think they "own" the Democratic Party and they can't just bow out gracefully.
And, let's just see how "mature" and supportive the PUMAs are when she doesn't get the nomination...AGAIN! I, for one, think she is digging herself a hole that she is going to regret.

[WHAT]

24. Only thing to do...

let it be known Clark VP choice before or start of convention...then she can make a "joke" of one of "hers" being on the ticket.

It won't be Hillary.

[Beacool]

32. Hilary has EARNED the right to a roll call more than anyone else in previous elections.

She's only behind Obama by 127 pledged delegates.

Why treat Hillary any differently than all the men who came before her?

1980:
Jimmy Carter - 1981 delegates
Ted Kennedy - 1225 delegates
Uncommitted - 122 Kennedy had no chance of winning, but his name was placed in nomination.

1984:
Jesse Jackson - 465 votes Jackson had no chance of winning, but his name was placed in nomination.

1988:
Jesse Jackson - 1218 votes Jackson had no chance of winning, but his name was placed in nomination.

2004:
John Kerry: 2192.5 Pledged delegates
Howard Dean: 114.5 Pledged delegates Dean had already dropped out, with no chance of winning, but his name was placed in nomination.

2008:
Barack Obama: 1766.5 Pledged delegates
Hillary Clinton: 1639.5 Pledged delegates

Hillary has a right to place her name in nomination and we who supported her want to see it happen.

[1Hippiechick]

43. And if she doesn't "win" the nomination you are going to support Obama? n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

45. That's "when", not "if". nt

[1Hippiechick]

50. I was being polite and trying to elicit a response from a HRC fan. None has reponded that they will

support Obama if HRC doesn't get the nod in Denver. Can't wait to hear what HRC has to say. If she thinks she can fool everyone with a "weak" and a *wink-wink* endorsement of Obama, she is digging herself a hole, and I think it will finish her political career. Thin ice for her, and if she continues to polarize the party, it is political suicide, IMO. No true Dem would ever vote for her again--for anything. We are not fools.

And this BS about a roll call? Wouldn't I love to see her fall flat on her face with the whole world watching.

[Beacool]

51. This has nothing to do with "winning" the nomination.

Of course Obama will be the nominee. This is about Hillary being shown the respect that she has more than earned and it's a celebration for her supporters, staffers and volunteers who worked so hard to get her elected.

[1Hippiechick]

58. And then after this emotional rollercoaster, Obama supporters are supposed to believe that HRC will

enthusiastically endorse Obama? AND, for some of her "fans" who WON'T support Obama, we are supposed to believe that for the first time during this election HRC would admonish them and tell them that this election is about putting a Democrat in the WH and supporting the PARTY, not HER? Please.

There is going to be a backlash for what she and her "fans" have done during this election that will cost her any future run at the Presidency, IMO. She is biting the hand that feeds her, although everyone keeps carping about how badly the Dem Party has treated her. I guess she and her fans will create a new party in the future, because she has crossed a line with the Dem Party, IMO. AND...if Obama loses this election, HRC will be blamed for it, and rightly so. Count on it. And THAT won't be forgotten.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skwmom]

41. That is total crap. Team Obama would not offer the idea of putting her name in nomination.

The last thing they want to do is turn the convention into the Hill and Bill show.

[Lord Helmet]

47. I do not heart the Clintons. they are so selfish

[bunnies]

56. girls need their "catharsis" ya know....

they're so emotional. :eyes:

[catbyte]

61. If I'm not mistaken...

...weren't the Clinton's ticked off about Jerry Brown wanting a roll call vote in 1992? What's changed? As a "50-something" woman, I agree wholeheartedly with the other women who find HRC's conduct embarrassing. I wish that she'd just go away already. I don't want to see any more of the Clinton Kabuki Theater!

Diane

"Tales of the hunt will glorify the hunter until lions have their own historians."--African proverb

[1Hippiechick]

65. And as a "60-something" woman, I agree! n/t

[madfloridian]

67. In the video they ask what would happen if she were nominated

by a narrow margin.

Watch the video...She says it won't happen. She says they will yell and scream and have a catharsis.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/2439