Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

This Man Won’t Be Swift Boated-Obama campaign releases a 41-page, point-by-point rebuttal

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:23 PM
Original message
This Man Won’t Be Swift Boated-Obama campaign releases a 41-page, point-by-point rebuttal
Edited on Thu Aug-14-08 04:27 PM by Pirate Smile
This Man Won’t Be Swift Boated

The Obama campaign releases a 41-page, point-by-point rebuttal of Corsi’s new Swift-Boat-style book about Obama.

Read it here. (PDF)

Campaign also plans to dig into the author’s past statements, increase surrogate action against the book, and step up pressure on high-level media executives for equal time to rebut charges.


“Once again, bigoted fringe author Jerome Corsi is trying to make money off of an election, spinning garbage as journalism and relying on the right-wing echo chamber to pump up sales.”



Read the response– called “Unfit for Publication”– here. (PDF)



http://markhalperin.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/unfit_for_publication.pdf

http://thepage.time.com/2008/08/14/this-man-wont-be-swift-boated/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Too bad they have to do the work for the lazy journos, but I'm
happy Obama's campaign is on top of this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Good. I was just going to post this AP story about it:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. Its like chemotherapy
and just as sad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. Inaccurate frame. Obama has to overcome the media - Kerry did exactly what you hail Obama for but,
Edited on Thu Aug-14-08 04:53 PM by blm
the media refused to allow his counters the airtime - we have to FIGHT the media to assure Obama's counters GET that airtime. We have to hold media responsible for reporting Obama's point by point refutation - they wouldn't do it in 2004. But now they're not protecting a Bush second term, as Rather has admitted they were in 2004.

BTW -
TPM was praising Kerry for attacking the swifts in August2004. Unfortunately, the corporate media refused to show it, barely reported it occured, and would not allow vets who were eyewitnesses any airtime to refute the liars.

The more people allow the corpmedia off the hook for their complicity in 2004, the more they'll keep at it.


BTW - the live links are in the DU Research Forum where this info was collected.

April 14, 2004 - The website for SBVT was registered under the name of Lewis Waterman, the information technology manager for Gannon International, a St. Louis company that has diversified interests, including in Vietnam. (1) (note - Gannon International does not appear to have any relationship to Jeff Gannon/Guckert, the fake reporter.)

May 3, 2004 - "Kerry campaign announced a major advertising push to introduce 'John Kerry's lifetime of service and strength to the American people.' Kerry's four month Vietnam experience figures prominently in the ads." (2)

May 4, 2004 - The Swift Liars, beginning their lies by calling themselves "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth", went public at a news conference organized by Merrie Spaeth at the National Press Club. (1)

May 4, 2004 - "The Kerry campaign held a press conference directly after the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" event...The campaign provided an information package which raised significant questions about 'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.' " (3)


May 4, 2004 - Aug. 5, 2004 - No public activity by Swift Liars (?) Wikipedia entry (7) notes "When the press conference garnered little attention, the organization decided to produce television advertisements." (Ed. note - were there any public info or announcements, other than talk on blogs? Was there anything going on publicly? Did the campaign have reason to foresee what was coming - note that they must have, see the reactions to each ad).

Jul. 26, 2004 - Jul. 29, 2004 - Democratic National Convention held in Boston. John Kerry's military experience is highlighted.

Aug. 5, 2004 - The Swift Liars' first television ad began airing a one-minute television spot in three states. (7)

Aug. 5, 2004 - "the General Counsels to the DNC and the Kerry-Edwards 2004 campaign faxed a letter to station managers at the relevant stations stating that the ad is 'an inflammatory, outrageous lie" and requesting that they "act immediately to prevent broadcast of this advertisement and deny any future sale of time. " ' " (4)

Aug. 10, 2004 - Democracy 21, The Campaign Legal Center and The Center for Responsive Politics filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission (FEC) charging that the Swift Liars were illegally raising and spending soft money on ads to influence the 2004 presidential elections. (4)

Aug. 17, 2004 - the campaign held a press conference at which Gen. Wesley Clark (ret.), Adm. Stansfield Turner (ret.), and several swift boat veterans rebutted the charges. (4)

Aug. 19, 2004 - the Kerry-Edwards campaign announced its own ad "Rassmann." (4)

Aug. 20, 2004 - The Swift Liars' second television ad began airing. This ad selectively excerpted Kerry's statements to the SFRC on 4/22/1971. (7)

Aug. 22, 2004 - the Kerry-Edwards campaign announced another ad "Issues" which addressed the Swift Boat group's attacks.

Aug. 25, 2004 - The Kerry-Edwards campaign ... dispatched former Sen. Max Cleland and Jim Rassmann, to Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas to deliver to the President a letter signed by Democratic Senators who are veterans. (The letter was not accepted.) (4)

Aug. 26, 2004 - The Swift Liars' third television ad began airing. This ad attacked Kerry's claim to have been in Cambodia in 1968. (7)

August 26, 2004 - Mary Beth Cahill sends letter to Ken Mehlman detailing the "Web of Connections" between the Swift Liars and the Bush Administration, and demanding that Bush denounce the smear campaign. (5)

August 26, 2004 - Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) submits FOIA request "with the White House asking it to detail its contacts with individuals connected to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth (SBVT)." (6)

Aug. 27, 2004 - The DNC ran a full page ad in the Aug. 27, 2004 New York Times terming the Swift Boat campaign a smear. (4)

Aug. 31, 2004 - - The Swift Liars' fourth television ad began airing. This ad attacked Kerry's participation in the medal-throwing protest on 4/23/1971. (7)

References:
* (1) SourceWatch article on SBVT

* (2) (2004) Democracy in Action / Eric M. Appleman, Democracy in Action / Eric M. Appleman

* (3) (2004) Democracy in Action / Eric M. Appleman, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth: Kerry Campaign Response

* (4) (Sept. 8, 2004) Eric M. Appleman (apparently) Some Responses to the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" Ad

* (5) August 26, 2004 letter from Mary Beth Cahill to Ken Mehlman

* (6) Press Release (US Newswire): CREW FOIAs White House Contacts with Swift Boat Veterans Group

* (7) Wikipedia entry, Swift Vets and POWs for Truth



MH1 - This topic is to create a timeline of the response of the K/E04 campaign to the Swift Liars' smears. There is an RW-encouraged myth that K/E04 "didn't respond." As the timeline, once completed, will show, that is not true. Effectiveness of the response may be debated - that is subjective - the purpose of this thread is to collect the facts of the events.




On Aug. 19, 2004 Kerry himself responded directly in a speech to the International Association of Firefighters' Convention in Boston. (from prepared remarks)
...And more than thirty years ago, I learned an important lesson—when you're under attack, the best thing to do is turn your boat into the attacker. That's what I intend to do today.

Over the last week or so, a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has been attacking me. Of course, this group isn’t interested in the truth – and they're not telling the truth. They didn't even exist until I won the nomination for president.

But here's what you really need to know about them. They're funded by hundreds of thousands of dollars from a Republican contributor out of Texas. They're a front for the Bush campaign. And the fact that the President won't denounce what they’re up to tells you everything you need to know—he wants them to do his dirty work.

Thirty years ago, official Navy reports documented my service in Vietnam and awarded me the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts. Thirty years ago, this was the plain truth. It still is. And I still carry the shrapnel in my leg from a wound in Vietnam.

As firefighters you risk your lives everyday. You know what it’s like to see the truth in the moment. You're proud of what you’ve done—and so am I.

Of course, the President keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer: "Bring it on."

I'm not going to let anyone question my commitment to defending America—then, now, or ever. And I'm not going to let anyone attack the sacrifice and courage of the men who saw battle with me.

And let me make this commitment today: their lies about my record will not stop me from fighting for jobs, health care, and our security – the issues that really matter to the American people...



Kerry defends war record
Aug. 19: John Kerry responds directly to attacks on his Vietnam military service Thursday, accusing President Bush of relying on front groups to challenge his war record.

http://video.msn.com/v/us/v.htm?g=40a0d9b1-0386-41ef-bc ...



May 4, 2004. The Kerry campaign held a press conference directly after the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" event. (Above are, r-l, Wade Sanders, Del Sandusky and Drew Whitlow). Senior Advisor Michael Meehan said, "The Nixon White House attempted to do this to Kerry, and the Bush folks are following the same plan." "We're not going to let them make false claims about Kerry and go unanswered," Meehan said. He said his first instinct was to hold a press conference with an empty room where veterans could testify to their time spent in the military with George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.

The campaign provided an information package which raised significant questions about "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth." Spaeth Communications, which hosted the event, "is a Republican headed firm from Texas which has contributed to Bush's campaign and has very close ties to the Bush Administration." Lead organizer John O'Neill, a Republican from Texas, "was a pawn of the Nixon White House in 1971." Further some of the people now speaking against Kerry had praised him in their evaluation reports in Vietnam.

John Dibble, who served on a swift boat in 1970, after Kerry had left, was one of the veterans at the Kerry event. He said of Kerry's anti-war activities that at the time, "I didn't like what he was doing." In retrospect, however, Dibble said, "I probably should have been doing the same thing...probably more of us should have been doing that." He said that might have meant fewer names on the Vietnam Memorial and that Kerry's anti-war activities were "a very gutsy thing to do."

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/interestg/swift050404c ....



Kerry campaign's quick response to Swift boat vets
By Marie Horrigan
UPI Deputy Americas Editor
Washington, DC, Aug. 5 (UPI) -- The campaign for Democratic Party presidential nominee Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts issued an exhaustively researched and extensively sourced 36-page refutation Thursday of allegations Kerry lied about events during his service in Vietnam, including how and why he received medals, and had fled the scene of a battle.

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040805-012143 ...



Kerry: Bush lets attack ads do 'dirty work'
McClellan points out criticism by anti-Bush group
Friday, August 20, 2004 Posted: 2:37 PM EDT (1837 GMT)
BOSTON, Massachusetts (CNN) -- Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry accused President Bush on Thursday of letting front groups "do his dirty work" in questioning his military service during the Vietnam War.

"The president keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack group does just that," Kerry told a firefighters' union conference in his hometown of Boston.

"Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer: Bring it on."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/19/kerry.attacka ... /


http://www.johnkerry.com/petition/oldtricks.php




August 5, 2004

VIA FACSIMILE

Re: Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

Dear Station Manager:

We are counsel to the Democratic National Committee and John Kerry, respectively. It has been brought to our attention that a group calling itself "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" has bought time, or may seek to buy time, on your station to air an advertisement that attacks Senator Kerry. The advertisement contains statements by men who purport to have served on Senator Kerry's SWIFT Boat in Vietnam, and one statement by a man pretending to be the doctor who treated Senator Kerry for one of his injuries. In fact, not a single one of the men who pretend to have served with Senator Kerry was actually a crewmate of Senator Kerry's and the man pretending to be his doctor was not. The entire advertisement, therefore is an inflammatory, outrageous lie.

"Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" styles itself as a group of individuals who personally served with John Kerry in the United States Navy in the Vietnam War. In truth the group is a sham organization spearheaded by a Texas corporate media consultant. It has been financed largely with funds from a Houston homebuilder. See Slater, Dallas Morning News, July 23, 2004.

In this group's advertisement, twelve men appear to make statements about Senator Kerry's service in Vietnam. Not a single one of these men served on either of Senator Kerry's two SWIFT Boats (PCF 44 & PCF94).

Further, the "doctor" who appears in the ad, Louis Letson, was not a crewmate of Senator Kerry's and was not the doctor who actually signed Senator Kerry's sick call sheet. In fact, another physician actually signed Senator Kerry's sick call sheet. Letson is not listed on any document as having treated Senator Kerry after the December 2, 1968 firefight. Moreover, according to news accounts, Letson did not record his "memories" of that incident until after Senator Kerry became a candidate for President in 2003. (National Review Online, May 4, 2004).

The statements made by the phony "crewmates" and "doctor" who appear in the advertisement are also totally, demonstrably and unequivocally false, and libelous. In parrticular, the advertisement charges that Senator Kerry "lied to get his Bronze Star." Just as falsely, it states that "he lied before the Senate." These are serious allegations of actual crimes -- specifically, of lying to the United States Government in the conduct of its official business. The events for which the Senator was awarded the Bronze Star have been documented repeatedly and in detail and are set out in the official citation signed by the Secretary of the Navy and the Commander of U.S. Forces in Vietnam. And yet these reckless charges of criminal conduct are offered without support or authentication, by fake "witnesses" speaking on behalf of a phony organization.

Your station is not obligated to accept this advertisement for broadcast nor is it required to account in any way for its decision to reject such an advertisement. Columbia Broadcasting System v. Democratic National Committee, 412 U.S. 94 (1973), You Can't Afford Dodd Committee, 81 FCC2d 579 (1980). The so-called "Swift Boat Veterans" organization is not a federal candidate or candidate committee. Repeated efforts by organizations that are not candidate committees to obtain a private right of access have been consistently rejected by the FCC. See e.g., National Conservative Political Action Committee, 89 FCC2d 626 (1982).

Thus, your station my freely refuse this advertisement. Because your station has this freedom, and because it is not a "use" of your facilities by a clearly identified candidate, your station is responsible for the false and libelous charges made by this sponsor.

Moreover, as a licensee, you have an overriding duty "to protect the public from false, misleading or deceptive advertising." Licensee Responsibility With Respect to the Broadcast of False, Misleading or Deceptive Advertising, 74 F.C.D.2d 623 (1961). Your station normally must take "reasonable steps" to satisfy itself "as to the reliability and reputation of every prospective advertiser." In re Complaint by Consumers Assocation of District of Columbia, 32 F.C.C.2d 400, 405 (1971).

Under these circumstances, your station may not responsibly air this advertisement. We request that your station act immmediately to prevent broadcasts of this advertisement and deny andy future sale of time. Knowing that the advertisement is false, and possessing the legal authority to refuse to run it, your station should exercise that authority in the public interest.


Please contact us promptly at either of the phone numbers below to advise us regarding the status of this advertisement.

Sincerely yours,
Marc Elias
Perkins Coie
607 14th Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005


General Counsel
Kerry-Edwards 2004 Joseph Sandler
Sandler, Reiff & Young
50 E Street, S.E. #300
Washington, D.C. 20003


General Counsel
Democratic National Committee


http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/ads04/dem080504ltrswift ...




From the transcript of the Aug. 5, 2004 White House Press Briefing with Scott McClellan:

Q Do you -- does the President repudiate this 527 ad that calls Kerry a liar on Vietnam?

MR. McCLELLAN: The President deplores all the unregulated soft money activity. We have been very clear in stating that, you know, we will not -- and we have not and we will not question Senator Kerry's service in Vietnam. I think that this is another example of the problem with the unregulated soft money activity that is going on. The President thought he put an end -- or the President thought he got rid of this kind of unregulated soft money when he signed the bipartisan campaign finance reforms into law. And, you know, the President has been on the receiving end of more than $62 million in negative attacks from shadowy groups.

* * *

In the days after the release of the ad a host of major newspapers published editorials condemning it including the Arizona Republic ("Campaign Non-Starter," August 6), Los Angeles Times ("It's Not All Fair Game," August 6), Plain Dealer ("Ad Says Kerry Lied; Record Says Otherwise," August 8), St. Petersburg Times ("An Ugly Attack," August 9), Las Vegas Sun ("Ad's Smear Should Be Condemned," August 9), Oregonian ("Now It Gets Nasty," August 11), and Washington Post ("Swift Boat Smears," August 12).

* * *

On Aug. 10, 2004 Democracy 21, the Campaign Legal Center and the Center for Responsive Politics filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission (FEC) charging that Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is illegally raising and spending soft money on ads to influence the 2004 presidential elections.

* * *

From the transcript of Bush's Aug. 12, 2004 appearance on CNN'S Larry King Live:


KING: In view of that, do you think that it's fair, for the record, John Kerry's service record, to be an issue at all? I know that Senator McCain...
G. BUSH: You know, I think it is an issue, because he views it as honorable service, and so do I. I mean...
KING: Oh, so it is. But, I mean, Senator McCain has asked to be condemned, the attack on his service. What do you say to that?
G. BUSH: Well, I say they ought to get rid of all those 527s, independent expenditures that have flooded the airwaves.
There have been millions of dollars spent up until this point in time. I signed a law that I thought would get rid of
those, and I called on the senator to -- let's just get anybody who feels like they got to run to not do so.
KING: Do you condemn the statements made about his...
G. BUSH: Well, I haven't seen the ad, but what I do condemn is these unregulated, soft-money expenditures by very wealthy people, and they've said some bad things about me. I guess they're saying bad things about him. And what I think we ought to do is not have them on the air. I think there ought to be full disclosure. The campaign funding law I signed I thought was going to get rid of that. But evidently the Federal Election Commission had a different view...

Kerry spokesman Chad Clanton's response to Bush's Aug. 12, 2004 appearance:
"Tonight President Bush called Kerry's service in Vietnam 'noble.' But in the same breath refused to heed Senator McCain's call to condemn the dirty work being done by the 'Swift Boat Vets for Bush.' Once again, the President side-stepped responsibility and refused to do the right thing. His credibility is running out as fast as his time in the White House."

* * *

On Aug. 17, 2004 the campaign held a press conference at which Gen. Wesley Clark (ret.), Adm. Stansfield Turner (ret.), and several swift boat veterans rebutted the charges.

* * *

DNC Chairman Terry McAuliffe issued a statement on Aug. 18, 2004:

"By saying nothing at all George W. Bush is a complicit contributor to the slanderous, lie-filled attack ads that have been launched on John Kerry on Bush's behalf. Instead of stepping up and taking the high road, George Bush's response has been evasion, avoidance, everything but disavowal.

"Larry King asked George Bush to 'condemn' it. He refused. Reporters asked the President's Press Secretary if he'd 'repudiate' it. He ducked. They can try to blame it on the rules or whoever else they want, but the blame belongs squarely on the Republicans. They wrote it. They produced it. They placed it. They paid for it. And now it is time for George W. Bush to stand up and say, 'enough.'

"This is not debate, Mr. President, and this unfounded attack on Senator Kerry has crossed the line of decency. I call on you today to condemn this ad, the men who put their lies behind it, and the donors who paid for it. It's time."

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/ads04/swiftadresponse.h ...




(August 19, 2004 -- 01:26 PM EDT)

WELL, IT SEEMS there wasn't something in the air.

I didn't know the Kerry campaign was finally going to return fire today over this Swift Boat nonsense. But this morning, in a speech to the International Association of Fire Fighters in Boston, he responded squarely to the attacks. You can see complete text of the speech and the new response-ad they're running. But the key point is that he aimed his remarks at precisely the right target ...

Over the last week or so, a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has been attacking me. Of course, this group isn?t interested in the truth ? and they?re not telling the truth. They didn?t even exist until I won the nomination for president.
<...>


This is a good thing -- and not simply because Kerry has to respond to the president's surrogates who are trying (and, to an extent, succeeding) in damaging his candidacy with scurrilous and discredited attacks.

There is a meta-debate going on here, one that I'm not sure even the practitioners fully articulate to themselves and one that I'm painfully aware the victims don't fully understand.

Let's call it the Republicans' Bitch-Slap theory of electoral politics.

It goes something like this.

On one level, of course, the aim behind these attacks is to cast suspicion upon Kerry's military service record and label him a liar. But that's only part of what's going on.

Consider for a moment what the big game is here. This is a battle between two candidates to demonstrate toughness on national security. Toughness is a unitary quality, really -- a personal, characterological quality rather than one rooted in policy or divisible in any real way. So both sides are trying to prove to undecided voters either that they're tougher than the other guy or at least tough enough for the job.

<…>

This meta-message behind the president's attacks on Kerry's war record is more consequential than many believe. So hitting back hard was critical on many levels.

more



Altercation Book Club: Lapdogs by Eric Boehlert
Relatively early on in the August coverage of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth story, ABC's Nightline devoted an entire episode to the allegations and reported, "The Kerry campaign calls the charges wrong, offensive and politically motivated. And points to Naval records that seemingly contradict the charges." (Emphasis added.) Seemingly? A more accurate phrasing would have been that Navy records "completely" or "thoroughly" contradicted the Swifty. In late August, CNN's scrawl across the bottom of the screen read, "Several Vietnam veterans are backing Kerry's version of events." Again, a more factual phrasing would have been "Crewmembers have always backed Kerry's version of events." But that would have meant not only having to stand up a well-funded Republican campaign attack machine, but also casting doubt on television news' hottest political story of the summer.

When the discussion did occasionally turn to the facts behind the Swift Boat allegations, reporters and pundits seemed too spooked to address the obvious—that the charges made no sense and there was little credible evidence to support them.. Substituting as host of "Meet the Press," Andrea Mitchell on Aug. 15 pressed Boston Globe reporter Anne Kornblut about the facts surrounding Kerry's combat service: "Well, Anne, you've covered him for many years, John Kerry. What is the truth of his record?" Instead of mentioning some of the glaring inconsistencies in the Swifties' allegation, such as George Elliott and Adrian Lonsdale 's embarrassing flip-flops, Kornblut ducked the question, suggesting the truth was "subjective": "The truth of his record, the criticism that's coming from the Swift Boat ads, is that he betrayed his fellow veterans. Well, that's a subjective question, that he came back from the war and then protested it. So, I mean, that is truly something that's subjective." Ten days later Kornblut scored a sit-down interview with O'Neill. In her 1,200-word story she politely declined to press O'Neill about a single factual inconsistency surrounding the Swifties' allegations, thereby keeping her Globe readers in the dark about the Swift Boat farce. (It was not until Bush was safely re-elected that that Kornblut, appearing on MSNBC, conceded the Swift Boast ads were clearly inaccurate.)

Hosting an Aug. 28 discussion on CNBC with Newsweek's Jon Meacham and Time's Jay Carney, NBC's Tim Russert finally, after weeks of overheated Swifty coverage, got around to asking the pertinent question: "Based on everything you have heard, seen, reported, in terms of the actual charges, the content of the book, is there any validity to any of it?" Carney conceded the charges did not have any validity, but did it oh, so gently: "I think it's hard to say that any one of them is by any standard that we measure these things has been substantiated." Apparently Carney forgot to pass the word along to editors at Time magazine, which is read by significantly more news consumers than Russert's weekly cable chat show on CNBC. Because it wasn't until its Sept. 20 2004 issue, well after the Swift Boat controversy had peaked, that the Time news team managed enough courage to tentatively announce the charges levied against Kerry and his combat service were "reckless and unfair." (Better late than never; Time's competitor Newsweek waited until after the election to report the Swift Boat charges were "misleading," but "very effective.") But even then, Time didn't hold the Swifties responsible for their "reckless and unfair" charges. Instead, Time celebrated them. Typing up an election postscript in November, Time toasted the Swift Boat's O'Neill as one of the campaign's "Winners," while remaining dutifully silent about the group's fraudulent charges.

That kind of Beltway media group self-censorship was evident throughout the Swift Boat story, as the perimeters of acceptable reporting were quickly established. Witness the MSM reaction to Wayne Langhofer, Jim Russell and Robert Lambert. All three men served with Kerry in Vietnam and all three men were witnesses to the disputed March 13, 1969 event in which Kerry rescued Green Beret Jim Rassmann, winning a Bronze Star and his third Purple Heart. The Swifties, after 35 years of silence, insisted Kerry did nothing special that day, and that he certainly did not come under enemy fire when he plucked Rassmann out of the drink. Therefore, Kerry did not deserve his honors.

It's true every person on Kerry's boat, along with the thankful Rassmann, insisted they were under fire, and so did the official Navy citation for Kerry's Bronze Star. Still, Swifties held to their unlikely story, and the press pretended to be confused about the stand-off. Then during the last week in August three more eyewitnesses, all backing the Navy's version of events that there had been hostile gun fire, stepped forward. They were Langhofer, Russell and Lambert.

Russell wrote an indignant letter to his local Telluride Daily Planet to dispute the Swifties' claim: "Forever pictured in my mind since that day over 30 years ago John Kerry bending over his boat picking up one of the rangers that we were ferrying from out of the water. All the time we were taking small arms fire from the beach; although because of our fusillade into the jungle, I don't think it was very accurate, thank God. Anyone who doesn't think that we were being fired upon must have been on a different river."

The number of times Russell was subsequently mentioned on CNN: 1. On Fox News: 1. MSNBC: 0. ABC: 1. On CBS: 0. On NBC: 0.

Like Russell, Langhofer also remembered strong enemy gunfire that day. An Aug. 22 article in the Washington Post laid out the details: "Until now, eyewitness evidence supporting Kerry's version had come only from his own crewmen. But yesterday, The Post independently contacted a participant who has not spoken out so far in favor of either camp who remembers coming under enemy fire. “There was a lot of firing going on, and it came from both sides of the river,” said Wayne D. Langhofer, who manned a machine gun aboard PCF-43, the boat that was directly behind Kerry’s. Langhofer said he distinctly remembered the “clack, clack, clack” of enemy AK-47s, as well as muzzle flashes from the riverbanks." (For some strange reason the Post buried its Langhofer scoop in the 50th paragraph of the story.)

The number of times Langhofer was subsequently mentioned on CNN: 0. On Fox News: 0. On MSNBC: 0. On ABC: 0. CBS: 0. NBC: 0.

As for Lambert, The Nation magazine uncovered the official citation for the Bronze Medal he won that same day and it too reported the flotilla of five U.S. boats "came under small-arms and automatic weapons fire from the river banks."

The number of times Lambert was mentioned on. On Fox News: 1. On CNN: 0. On MSNBC: 0. ABC: 1 On CBS: 0. On NBC: 0.

Additionally, the Washington Post's Michael Dobbs, who served as the paper's point person on the Swifty scandal, was asked during an Aug. 30, 2004, online chat with readers why the paper hadn't reported more aggressively on the public statements of Langhofer, Russell and Lambert. Dobbs insisted, "I hope to return to this subject at some point to update readers." But he never did. Post readers, who were deluged with Swifty reporting, received just the sketchiest of facts about Langhofer, Russell and Lambert.

If that doesn't represent a concerted effort by the press to look the other way, than what does?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12799378/#060518
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Agreed, the real issue is targetting the media via television and radio and getting
the information out there heavy and continous and show these people as the scum liars that they are.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. Bingo!
:applause:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wildflower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. Thank you for this, blm
Kerry did respond, but the media didn't cover it. This time, I think (hope) they want to make up for that mistake.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. Recommending for your post, blm. MSM must have their feet held to the fire.
Obama's swiftness at attacking Swift-Boating is the real story. WE need to be prepared to attack MSM if they are derelict in their duty in reporting the real story.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
31. gush gush
I love you BLM.

:hi:

Thanks for that terrific post. It should be out on its own.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
53. thanks...
hard to believe i missed/forgot about all this fighting back...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
5. Better Follow Up with a 45 Second Sound-Bite With Legs
Freepers don't read too good.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. Open-minded, fair-thinking people will read this rebuttal........
unfortunately, I believe most Americans ARE NOT open-minded not fair-thinking. Obama has a tens of millions in his war chest. I think his campaign should use a chunk of it to rebutt this garbage as it is thrown out - not wait til the end of October when most of the Independents have made up their mind (it'll be too late to rebutt then).

What good are these millions in campaigns funds if he won't use them to defend himself? That's why his supporters have donated the funds to him - so he can stand toe-to-toe with mcsame and stay in this race!

I'm getting really frustrated that Obama seems to be keeping this thing close enough for the repukes to steal. Blow those a$$holes out of the water!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I don't think it is Obama keep it close. If all the Democrats would get behind him then he would
have a bigger lead.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
41. Exactly
Tie a hundred pound weight around the neck of someone swimming across a swift and dangerous river and then complain that their strokes aren't strong enough. "No really, I'm pulling for you!"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sulawesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. With the rebuttal, the media cannot report on the book without having read the rebuttal...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Have you been paying attention to what our media has been doing
the last 7 years? We can't count on our media to mention the rebuttal in detail, if at all.

The Obama campaign needs to come out with radio and tv spots countering the junk in Corsi's book.

All this high road stuff is going to get us is sitting on the sidelines watching the repukes start wars for the next 4 years!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. You're not listening. He IS fighting back. He can run all the ads he wants
BUT IF THE MEDIA WON'T AIR THE ADS OR PROVIDE EQUAL TIME, then we cannot count on them. We have to do ground work ourselves!!! We must work ourselves. And I agree! WHERE THE HELL ARE THE DEMOCRATS??!?!? Where are they? I've written emails, letters, I've made phone calls to the entire Democratic leadership, as well as, Howard Dean. I want to know where the Democrats are and why they aren't helping Obama to fight back. He can't do this all by himself without any support from the Establishment. If you notice the Republicans, they all come to the aid of John McCain...and they HATE him!! But yet, they are standing behind him. They all speak with one voice and it works. Why can't the Dems do the same? I'm not arguing that we should act like zombies as they do; I'm simply arguing for unity and speaking with one voice when it comes to defending our nominee. All I see is Kerry out there fighting back or Biden writing a great op-Ed. And all I see is Chuck Schumer slamming him for not "hitting back hard!" What has Schumer done to help Obama? What has any Democrat done?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. EXACTLY - we must become the WALL OF NOISE.
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Says who? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. They did in 2004
April 14, 2004 - The website for SBVT was registered under the name of Lewis Waterman, the information technology manager for Gannon International, a St. Louis company that has diversified interests, including in Vietnam. (1) (note - Gannon International does not appear to have any relationship to Jeff Gannon/Guckert, the fake reporter.)

May 3, 2004 - "Kerry campaign announced a major advertising push to introduce 'John Kerry's lifetime of service and strength to the American people.' Kerry's four month Vietnam experience figures prominently in the ads." (2)

May 4, 2004 - The Swift Liars, beginning their lies by calling themselves "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth", went public at a news conference organized by Merrie Spaeth at the National Press Club. (1)

May 4, 2004 - "The Kerry campaign held a press conference directly after the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" event...The campaign provided an information package which raised significant questions about 'Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.' " (3)


May 4, 2004 - Aug. 5, 2004 - No public activity by Swift Liars (?) Wikipedia entry (7) notes "When the press conference garnered little attention, the organization decided to produce television advertisements." (Ed. note - were there any public info or announcements, other than talk on blogs? Was there anything going on publicly? Did the campaign have reason to foresee what was coming - note that they must have, see the reactions to each ad).


Stopped the Swift Liars for three months. Then, despite 36 pages of facts, the media figured out a way to aid the Liars, keep repeating the lies in news reports.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. You can fool some of the people all the time!
Those people will always go for the head fake.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
10. That's my President!!
He's good.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
12. Wooooooooooot!!!
Way to go! :applause:

K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. Wow great news. But I think he should push this into the media sphere to shut people up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. wow, even has a link and excerpts of his Freeper posts
It's rare to see Democratic campaign that is aware of what is going on around them!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
20. People could print this out and put it in the books at their local stores! Small contribution
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
21. Well done.
Edited on Thu Aug-14-08 05:20 PM by DCBob
This is the only way to counteract this crap. The media will use whatever you give them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. No, they will NOT. Kerry did the exact same thing and no media would accept the refutations
as facts or report them as such, though they were clearly backed by official Naval records and eyewitness reports.

See post #4. Not ONE media outlet would broadcast Kerry's speech to the Firefighters convention where he attacked the swifts and challenged Bush to debate their services during Vietnam.

Imagine no newsmedia finding anything newsworthy in that.....they were COMPLICIT AS HELL.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Kerry waited too long...
Timeliness is critical with the 24 hour news cycle.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. BEFORE the August attacks,
the media already had:

- Kerry's entire military record containing all the fitness reports, all glowing - some even written by future SBVT. You could look at the dates and see they completely covered the almost 4 years he was in the Navy.

- They had Tour of Duty, written by an historian over which Kerry had no editorial control. He spoke to over 100 people who were involved. He spoke to many future SBVT and other than one they had no problem with Kerry. (The one who hated him was the man whose boat Kerry took over - it was clear the crew hated him and loved Kerry. He spoke of not fraternizing with them or speaking of their families - then he said he didn't like Kerry because he was aloof!)

- They had the Nixon tapes - never meant to be public - where Nixon was told that Kerry really was a war hero and that they could find no dirt - he was squeaky clean. (Remember his response was to tell people to destroy Kerry - so if there was anything to use, it would have been.)

- All the guys in the boats when he got medals backed him 100%

Any one of those would have been enough - and far more than Clinton ever produced.

However after the book was out, within one day, the Kerry team had a 36 page document - like the Obama one out. In addition, within a week or so they tied both the SBVT and B/C to one lawyer and proved the effort was funded by Bush people.

-
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Kerry and surrogates were all over the media too. The real problem was less the media....
...which it pains me to say...and more the fact that Kerry just wasn't a good candidate for President. He was flat... McCain trying to deliver a speech reminds me a lot of what it felt like trying to listen to John Kerry and stay awake.

Great guy, great senator. Lousy Presidential candidate.... who almost won, or possibly DID win anyway, I'd like to add.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. If Kerry were that bad a candidate he wouldn't have
nearly pulled off an upset. As to his speeches, he is a very eloquent man - I watched the stump speeches on CSPAN and was far more inspired by them than I have been by any other politician. How many politicians have lines from a speech that are instantly recognized 37 years later - Kerry is one of them. Obama may be, though it's too early to tell. (neither Clinton or Edwards come close)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
verges Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. We keep saying McCain's a bad candidate too.
Yet, he keeeps gaining in the electoral counts:

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

Obama is currently only 25 EV's ahaead! A couple of weeeks ago, he was ahead 118. We have a problem.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #47
54. Not the same thing - McCain has the
RW echo chamber on his side. In 2004, that echo chamber was all pervasive. In fact, I didn't realize what a stress and a black cloud it was even for someone like me living in very blue NJ, until I felt the relief and euphoria on election day when the exit polls actually showed a Kerry landslide.

McCain has made tons of gaffes - Kerry, contrary to the post 2004 smear, made very few - while speaking 16 hours a day and getting far too little sleep. In fact, Obama will be doing well to make as few gaffes. He is also lucky as 2008 is a much better year for Democrats than 2004 - and Kerry likely would have won a fair election.

The EV estimations are based on polls with big MOE's and are very unstable. I do think many were over confident earlier. This will be a fight, but the country has moved dramatically to the Democratic positions. We need to all support Obama and get across that his positions are right and to point out to people concerned with experience, that he, like all Presidents, will set the tone and put people in place to accomplish those goals. It really is a case of the goals needing to be right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. If Kerry were that bad a candidate he wouldn't have
nearly pulled off an upset. As to his speeches, he is a very eloquent man - I watched the stump speeches on CSPAN and was far more inspired by them than I have been by any other politician. How many politicians have lines from a speech that are instantly recognized 37 years later - Kerry is one of them. Obama may be, though it's too early to tell. (neither Clinton or Edwards come close)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #38
55. Have to say, I think Obama is a better candidate than Kerry
Edited on Fri Aug-15-08 10:11 AM by mvd
I liked Kerry and he would have been a great President, but he just didn't excite people. I think there was more anti-Bush sentiment than pro-Kerry sentiment. I also think he focused too much on his military experience.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #55
62. If media told HALF the truth about Kerry people WOULD have been excited to have the top lawmaker
who uncovered the most govt corruption of any lawmaker in modern history and whose efforts to expose terrorism woiuld have prevented 9-11 had those with access to documents in previous WH's not blocked their revelations.

Obama has a motivated and stronger DNC working FOR him. He also has a left media with bigger muscles than they ever had in 2000, 2002 and 2004 when they were barely blips in terms of influence.

Kerry had the useless McAuliffe and various Dem saboteurs and the last Dem president on a summer2004 book tour not only supporting Bush in every interview he did but also defending Bush's decision s on terrorism and Iraq war from the very criticisms being directed at him from the left and the Dem nominee.

The public didn't even have the chance to get know Kerry - he's exciting to those who care about open govvernment and accountability and still has the most compelling ACTUAL history of any lawmaker in DC. Exactly what the corporate media and DC powerstructure did NOT want more people to know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. Oh, Kerry's handlers had something to do with it
Edited on Fri Aug-15-08 02:45 PM by mvd
But I stand my my contention though that overall Obama is the more generally appealing candidate. The limited exposure of a campaign did not do enough to let Kerry's strong points shine. It's not right, but sometimes people don't go for someone unless they outwardly interest them.

Obama still has to sure up older voters a bit, though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. You think Obama would've won 2004 because he was generally more appealing?
Edited on Fri Aug-15-08 02:48 PM by blm
Or did 2004 have more than its share of saboteurs from a media in the tank to protect Bush (as Dan Rather admitted last year)to the Dem powerstructure who never wanted Kerry with full WH access and near decades of documents that they knew he would open to review?

You think Carville sabotaged Ohio Dem voters on election night on his own?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. I think Kerry won anyway (because of Ohio,) but yes,
Edited on Fri Aug-15-08 02:53 PM by mvd
Obama would have made it easier (but may be moot point since Obama was so new.) All candidates must fight the Repuke smear candidate but some do better than others.

I wish Kerry's fighting spirit now would have been more on display then.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. He fought - where was the back up? Most Dems here didn't know he countered the swifts
Edited on Fri Aug-15-08 03:08 PM by blm
and attacked Bush for hiding behind them....and you want to know WHY they didn't know? Because THEY were missing in action, too, when it came to backing up our nominee in that fight. Too many Dem lawmakers, left media and those who call themselves activist bloggers didn't exactly show up and flex their muscles and FURTHER Kerry's attacks against the swifts and Bush did they? Plenty of Dems failed - even DUers who can't remember 2004 accurately.


Kerry campaign's quick response to Swift boat vets
By Marie Horrigan
UPI Deputy Americas Editor
Washington, DC, Aug. 5 (UPI) -- The campaign for Democratic Party presidential nominee Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts issued an exhaustively researched and extensively sourced 36-page refutation Thursday of allegations Kerry lied about events during his service in Vietnam, including how and why he received medals, and had fled the scene of a battle.

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040805-012143...



Kerry: Bush lets attack ads do 'dirty work'
McClellan points out criticism by anti-Bush group
Friday, August 20, 2004 Posted: 2:37 PM EDT (1837 GMT)
BOSTON, Massachusetts (CNN) -- Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry accused President Bush on Thursday of letting front groups "do his dirty work" in questioning his military service during the Vietnam War.

"The president keeps telling people he would never question my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack group does just that," Kerry told a firefighters' union conference in his hometown of Boston.

"Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer: Bring it on."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/19/kerry.attacka... /


http://www.johnkerry.com/petition/oldtricks.php



BTW - you really think media would've eased off their protection of Bush in 2004 just because Obama was 'appealing' and Dem powerstructure wouldn't have obstructed another open government Democrat like Obama just because he was appealing? You think McAuliffe WOULD have had the election process secured in Ohio because Obama was the appealing nominee?

Repeat the media spin against our nominees and you feed the corpmedia machine another quarter - as if they need it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. Kerry's fighting was not enough IMO
Edited on Fri Aug-15-08 03:09 PM by mvd
I would have gone swift boat on the swift boaters. I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree. Whether he fought enough or was a good candidate is subjective in this case.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. It was MORE than any other nominee EVER did on his own. Those unaware of it were MIA themselves
and the archives here at DU prove it.

Markos admitted some months ago that he didn't do nearly enough in 2004 and was wrong for blaming Kerry as much he did. Something he realized after honest reflection.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Disagree with you
Ads should have been on the air 24/7 detailing the connections to Bush and the lies. Kerry needed to take more control of his campaign.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. Yes - DNC should've done that in August when Kerry had limited money and DNC knew it.
Edited on Fri Aug-15-08 03:49 PM by blm
BTW - you can disagree with me re any opinion of mine but you can't disagree with the FACT that Kerry did counter the swifts and OTHER Dems - lawmakers, left media and left activist bloggers failed to back him up and FURTHER his attacks. THAT is why they didn't seem 'enough' at the time. Kerry had to be an army of one because of a nonexistent Dem party front line.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. On the one thing I agree
Kerry did more than the nothing that some people think he did.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #38
63. Bush was great - he didn't need the RNC to steal that election as Kerry was so bad
he never had enormous rallies and never won a debate. The DNC completely outworked the RNC but Kerry was so bad ....and the left media TOTALLY dominated the RW machine but Kerry was just such a lousy candidate and Bush shone every day and was just too great a campaigner. Yep - the media gave so much time to Kerry and his surrogates and showed how awful Kerry was - yep - that speech Kerry made attacking the swifts and Bush got so much airtime I was bored to tears and glad when media finally stopped showing it. They were so fair to Kerry it was almost nauseating.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #26
49. He did NOT - He did this EXACT same thing as Obama and did it IMMEDIATELY
Firefighters Convention was a scheduled speech that was supposed to get national broadcast. McGreevey outing took up over a week of time right after swifts came back, so that Aug19 speech to Firefighters Convention should have been PERFECT for the national spotlight. You may think there was no complicity from the media to ignore that speech outright but that tells me you haven't a clue what is going on in this country and it's media.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. You are correct. That's why refutation is not 'fighting back'
Kerry did refute. Refuting merely keeps the story alive... gives it two-sides. "Fair and Balanced"

Fighting back is to demolish the other guy, not offer a scholarly refutation.

In SC in 2000 McCain's response to the "illegitimate black child" thing should have said Bush was morally unfit to hold any office and should drop out of the race, and stick with it no matter what. Let Bush keep saying they weren't his calls... nobody would believe it.

And Kerry should have done the same. Let Bush prove a negative for a change.

I don't care if Obama put out a 12,000 page memo refuting Corsi. Since Corsi isn't running it's just the next step in a canned media drama.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. The rebutal serves multiple purposes...
First it rebuts the attacks and gives the media something to use in their articles but it also helps supporters. Many of these attacks begin to wear on those already planning to vote for Obama. Some may start to waver so this information helps keep them in the fold. The critical thing is to get it out as soon as possible to have maximum impact. The Obama campaign has done that and I still say well done! It will work.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Yes, I agree that speedy refutation does hold some media feet to the fire
Edited on Thu Aug-14-08 08:07 PM by Kurt_and_Hunter
Documentary refutation aimed at op-ed types is better than no refutation at all. But it doesn't undo. Nothing undoes, which is the problem.

The bell cannot be un-rung so it must be drowned out.

Funny thing about the Corsi book, though... I haven't heard anything from it that seems particularly bad. I'm sure there are scurrilous allegations buried somewhere in there, but everything I've heard is incredibly petty stuff.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Me too..
I have not heard anything that sounds like a bombshell, just a rehash of old attacks with a little more detail. I suspect it will have little to no impact. I think the Repubs plan was to buy it to the best sellers list and hope that would make headlines and people would assume there were horrible things in the book without even reading it. That strategy might be working somewhat except most people aren't paying attention with the Olympics and the Georgian crisis and other stuff in the news. It's just boring to most.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FVZA_Colonel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. It's basically "DRUGS! HIS WIFE HATES WHITEY; SO DOES HE! HE'S A SECRET ISLAMO-FASCIST!"
Edited on Thu Aug-14-08 10:11 PM by FVZA_Colonel
That's pretty much it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #29
39. That's EXACTLY right! Difference between Obama and Kerry approach
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #29
51. You didn't read the ENTIRE counterattacks Kerry did that corpmedia REFUSED TO BROADCAST.
That speech to Firefighters where he attacked swifts AND NAILED BUSH for hiding behind them challenging him to debate their Vietnam services was the toughest HARDBALL that ANY candidate ever performed - media blacked it out DELIBERATELY.

Your siding with media's revisionism on this is BULLSHIT.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DianaForRussFeingold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
27. Thank You!
On MSNBC's Countdown Now...:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
28. Dont rebut. Attack Corsi for whom he is- a wacko.
You cannot rebut a full book and if one attack is partially true, it is enough for them to say the book is true.

So attack Corsi for who he is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. Only a devastating attack on MCCAIN will address this slime. It should not come from Obama directly
Edited on Thu Aug-14-08 08:10 PM by Sensitivity
There is really no effective way to answer a smear whose audience is inclined to believe the worst.

Only thing you can do is "convince" the opponent not to tollerate the low-road strategy because of the price HE will pay for it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mucifer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. The media isn't covering any attack on mcstupid or any of the antimcstupid books out there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##
==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v4.1
==================



This week is our third quarter 2008 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
40. this is great but it needs to be delivered with 'fire in the belly' nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
43. Love the title: UNFIT FOR PUBLICATION.
Clever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-08 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
46. BO WILL be swiftboated....its how he handles it
that will make all the difference in our country. The man has so much pressure on his shoulders and is handling it beautifully so far.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DUlover2909 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
48. This Jerome Corsi needs a good old fashioned ass kicking.
Sometimes the old ways work.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kierkegaard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #48
58. Right on target.
These little cretins run around sticking their finger in people's eye and seldom get the beat down they deserve. The more they get away with, the bolder they get.

I'm willing to give ass-whoopin' a try...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
50. Thanks pirate and blm.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
52. They should go further investigate the claims for libel - and then sue if they find it.
It is time to take these slime rakers on. Mary Matalin needs her ass in a sling over this also.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #52
59. If they can, then you're damn right they should.
Sickening what these freaks get away with...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
56. Hooray for Obama!
This sounds like Bill Clinton's rapid response team.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
57. That is good, but it needs to go on air also because most will not
read it on the website. Counter it now in ads because another hate-book is coming out in two weeks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #57
60. Both very good points
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. They are demanding that any news programs that give time to Corsi, give them the same amount of time
to one of their surrogates to strongly refute the lies.

They are also making sure the media receives all the information laying out the lies in the book before Corsi appears on any shows.

They do plan to counter it strongly.

"Campaign also plans to dig into the author’s past statements, increase surrogate action against the book, and step up pressure on high-level media executives for equal time to rebut charges."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Brigid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
64. I'm very glad . . .
that Obama is taking the possibility of being swiftboated seriously and is taking vigorous steps to fight it. They won't get away with it this time. Remember, there is a lot of "buyer's remorse" going on right now among those who voted for Bush in 2004.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue May 07th 2024, 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC