"Obama at Rick Warren's Saddleback Soiree"...( Positive Review of Obama Last Night)

[KoKo]

From: Cafe, Election Central
My Two Cents: Obama at Rick Warren's Saddleback Soiree
By Jade7243 - August 17, 2008, 1:41AM

Not bad... actually quite good...

Barack Obama ventured into very unfriendly territory this evening and got a warm reception, was interrupted several times for genuine applause from an audience that listened to what he had to say -- even though they were waiting for an appearance from their celebrity war hero, John McCain.

Contrary to the pundits, and frankly even some of my own comments over at Saddleback Open Thread, once I had a few minutes to really reflect on the evening, there is reason to be upbeat.

First, Obama went where Democrats typically fear to tread, an evangelical church in the heart of wealthy Republican Orange County, CA. The pastor of this mega-church is a "celebrity" in his own right, with a congregation of over 20,000. But since the event was carried live by the cable channels, the potential audience was far greater and not everyone watching would describe themselves as an evangelical Christian, nor would they all be McCain supporters. So, while in the hall the reaction was pro-McCain during his half of the show, that's not what was happening in many living rooms around the country. In the hall, during the Obama segment, he was met warmly, interrupted by applause that was frequent and genuine.

Second, in contrast to McCain, Obama did not pander. He did not use his stump speech to deflect questions and answered in depth. I noticed frequently, that Warren seemed to want to cut Obama off, instead of letting a conversation grow. Warren, to be sure, asked what many will consider some rather assinine questions: does evil exist and should we negotiate with it, defeat it, serve it tea and crumpets or croon lullabies to it? Obama gave a thoughtful answer. McCain chased Osama Bin Laden to the gates of Hell once again.

While Obama spoke positively of the challenges we face, McCain spoke of applying unilateral force to everything, everywhere. He single-handedly revived the Cold War. As President, McCain brings war, Obama, peace.

The differences between the two men were clearly delineated. McCain is reactive: his terse answers seemed more rehearsed and anticipated: a question about abortion had McCain asking "I want to say a few things about the judges. Are we talking about the judges now or later?" (In fact a question about the Supreme Court was coming later, but if he had no advance knowledge of the questions -- kept in the so-called "cone of silence" -- was it just a random guess that there would be "judges?")

Obama, on the other hand, took in each question as it came. He was candid in speaking of his faith and beliefs.

Third, Rick Warren is not Jim Lehrer, Bob Schieffer or Brian Williams , the moderators of the upcoming Presidential debates. Warren allowed McCain to -- in the words of the New York Times -- filibuster his segment. I do not foresee that happening in future debates, where McCain will avoid answering "what's rich?" questions before finally blurting out $5 million dollars. (By the way, that makes McCain super rich and Obama, "middle class.") Warren didn't challenge McCain on his non-answers, the news anchor moderators won't let him get away with that.

READ MORE with GREAT COMMENTS at.........

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/08/my-two-cents-obama-at-rick-war.php

[stray cat]

1. The opinion of someone who watched - now thats valuable insight!

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

2. K&R!

Yay! Someone got it! Brilliant analysis of the forum last night.

[Epiphany4z]

3. I though Obama

was great and McCain stunk....and I tried hard to be objective...

the after show news reviews are what ticked me off...they where all gushing over McCain...i sure hope to see some more sober reviews in the next couple of days.

[stray cat]

5. The media had low expectations for McCain - I think after last night the moderates still do....

McCain came across as a pandering clone of Bush

[Cosmocat]

16. They did not for ONE second consider ...

the CONTEXT of what he said ...

By golly, he was STRONG when he talked ...

Fact is, he was very nervous at first, then when he was reassured by the audienc that they were on his side, he started feeding them red meat, and IMO, he piled on TOO much ... Any OBJECTIVE look at the text of what he said last night shows that he staked his flag in VERY, VERY right wing positions ...

WILL the media hold him to those positions when he is in a less rabid setting ???

When the topic comes up about SCJs, will they bring up that when asked which one he would not have nominated, that he would have not nominated HALF THE BENCH ??? That he clearly, unabashedly said he would have a pro life adminstration ... That he said he was going to give EVERYONE a tax break ... ect ...

[roseBudd]

4. I agree we have to remember values voters do have concerns regarding "Just Wars"...

which is why I use the Iraq War & the pope's opposition in an abortion debate.

See this thread

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080811/EDIT02/808110311

To contend that abortion deserves heightened concern, while completely ignoring the unjustified invasion of Iraq is the height of hypocrisy, especially when it arrives as thinly veiled attempt to influence an election.

Ratzinger: "It is necessary that the community of nations makes the decision, not a particular power,"

"The fact that the United Nations is seeking the way to avoid war, seems to me to demonstrate with enough evidence that the damage would be greater than the values one hopes to save,"

The "concept of a 'preventive war' does not appear in the Catechism of the Catholic Church,"

"The Holy Father's judgment is also convincing from the rational point of view: There were not sufficient reasons to unleash a war against Iraq. To say nothing of the fact that, given the new weapons that make possible destructions that go beyond the combatant groups, today we should be asking ourselves if it is still licit to admit the very existence of a "just war."

AND I also wrote

Replying to Castellanus:

"The number of innocent Iraqis kill is by and large from terrorists not interested in seeing a democratic Iraq like in other areas of the Middle East where they use suicide bombers to carry their message of hate."


Fact: There were no suicide bombings in Iraq pre-invasion.

Fact: The US defied international criticism and used nearly 10,800 cluster bombs in Iraq

So your justification for dismissing the loss of innocent Iraqi civilian lives and the suffering caused by the devastating destruction of their infrastructure reveals you to be a rather callus individual.

Perhaps you just don't care because the people who have died as a result of this immoral war don't look like you, don't worship like you and happen to be sitting on your oil.

Well the pope would not be pleased with the argument you made in your comments.

[fred500]

20. The spin im media is McCain won BIG

It is sickening.

[glowing]

6. Actually, the media whores probably wouldn't follow up with McCain.

There more known for covering up his ramblings and incohesive thoughts and his oddities of "old man" moments.

[BrklynLiberal]

14. I had that same thought when I read the expectation that they would.

There is absolutely no historical evidence that the media will try to pin down McSame

[lamp_shade]

7. Your message titled really drew me in this morning

Thanks Koko, I needed that. My day will go a little better now.

[CitizenPatriot]

8. tax plan?

McCain also never talked about his tax plan, just said wouldn't we like to have better schools, etc. yes we would.

Now who's going to pay for that?

The upper class is paying less percentage wise than they have since the Depression -- kind of makes sense, no? The middle and lower classes can't carry this war and this country on its back forever. Wake up to real "fiscal responsibility" and try paying some taxes again.

As for McCain's silly references to "income redistribution" is he really so unfamiliar with that concept as to think that upper classes and big business actually paying some taxes again is some form of socialism? Um, McCain? It's actually a concept America was BUILT ON. No taxation without representation!

[stray cat]

9. McCain said he wants everyone to be rich and no one to pay taxes.

How is that for shallow pandering. Obama did say Warren would pay higher taxes in his plan.

[CitizenPatriot]

10. gee i wonder who was being honest? n/t

[Quixote1818]

11. K and R

[Kdillard]

12. Obama's best moment of the night came when he honestly said that yes people of a certain tax bracket

will have to pay more taxes and explained that it was to help support our infrastructure.

[Cosmocat]

13. the fundamental difference last night ...

was that Obama was in a setting where he HAD to tell the audience things they did not want to hear the entire hour ... McCain was set up to be able to feed the audience, to a T, what they WANTED to hear ...

[CrispyQ]

15. I thought Obama gave thoughtful, serious answers.

McCain, however, joked before several of his answers. I felt he likened it to running for student council president - a lark. It reminded me of boosh -- he's always trying to get a laugh in before he answers a question.

While the audience was polite toward Obama, I feel they were thrilled with McCain.

However, I still believe the event was contrary to this: "...but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

[Taverner]

17. Perhaps the biggest victory from last night:

Obama is a Christian

Not that I give a rat's ass, but many do - many evangelicals. This will put all of that to rest. The worms within the GOP will try to bring back the Muslim meme again (and seriously, WTF is wrong with being Muslim?) but it won't stick - among Evangelicals it will meet with the same eye roll as would come from us.

[KoKo]

18. good point...thanks for bringing that up.

hadn't thought of that or seen it anywhere. :hi:

[KoKo]

19. ...

[Top Cat]

21. Thanks for the post

[opihimoimoi]

22. Me too....another Thanks for a good post

:toast:

[eshfemme]

23. What people don't realize is that McCain's positions are easily summed up in soundbites.

This means that it's a lot easier to win over idiots and pundits than what Obama went with and that was being himself. I can totally see the reason behind the accusations of McCain receiving the questions beforehand because he was clearly packaged. Obama was more off the cuff and it showed.