the Swift Boat smear is not going according to plan

[NewYorkerfromMass]

As I wrote Friday, they rolled this whole thing out too early. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x642175

Now we have the Bush lawyer resigning. Which is a HUGE development, and there will be more about that later.
The worst thing though, is that now there is AMPLE time for the BACKLASH.
Had the Bushies waited until October, there would have been no time for it. But now there is.

I am still very confident.

[molly]

1. We also have the prison abuse scandal

[Darby]

15. A Bar Complaint Against O'Neill WILL WORK

See other thread on how to file a Texas Bar Complaint against O'Neill.

An attorny in Oregon who appeared in the SwiftBoat Vets ad - French - is now under investigation by the Oregon bar for ETHICS violations. It's getting media coverage - and the bar was pressured to act because of all the public complaints.

Believe me, the Bar does NOT like sleazy attornyes of ANY political persuasion. If O'Neill has not violated the rules, then no one has or ever will.

Rule 8.04 is a very broad catch all - any sort of DISHONEST or MISLEADING CONDUCT. These rules exist to stop him from doing EXACTLY WHAT HE IS DOING NOW.

The lies have already been set forth for you here:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200408250008

Pick your favorites and put them in a letter to the Texas Bar.

Will it kill you to write one Letter? DO IT! DO IT! DO IT!

[faithnotgreed]

21. hi darby. a warm welcome to du! yes - lets be active

[KharmaTrain]

2. Amen...And We're Starting To Draw Some Blood

The fact Merrie Speeth...the Riefenstahl of the wingnut media had come out of her rat hole means we're seeing the real guts of the Rove machine. These goons, in their haste and arrogance, didn't think they needed to cover their tracks and that these tricks have worked before and will again.

I agree, they should have released this smear in October where the week or so of "pump" would have had the same effect as the revelation of Bunnypants DUIs prior to the 2000 election (many agree it cost him the popular vote). But, fortunately not only did these morons overplay their hand, but left themselves very, very, very vulnerable and hopefully the Kerry campaign won't let up now and will expose more and more of these political hitmen, thus either forcing them deeper into the hole or negating their influence whatsoever. Kinda nice to know they tried to screw over Sandy Berger, and we get even by outing Ben Ginsburg. This was a big, big shot in their bow.

We'll really know if things are backlashing when we see something rare...changes in the Bunnypants campaign (ala the James Baker to the rescue crap right after the '88 convention). When you start seeing the current brood of talking heads like Terry Holt, Rasicot and other Heritage foundation shills vanish, the more you know they're running scared.

Cheers!

[goclark]

3. Smear Smear Smear is all you'll hear

From now until Nov. 2nd.
They will never stop,no matter what, because they have no PLAN for the American people.
We do have a plan and it is getting smashed by smears!

Get a Meme Kerry, get a Meme:


"Smear, smear,smear
That's all you'll hear.
They are talking about the past..
We are talking about TODAY and TOMORROW!"

[democratreformed]

14. From a thread the other day: "smear AND fear".

Can't forget that all too important second one.

[goclark]

18. You are right!

"Smear, smear, smear
Scare,scare, scare

They can't trick us with those tactics!

WE will talk about the issues in this campaign...."

They have got to keep saying these Mimes over and over and over and over and over until it sinks in to the American people.

Let's remember folks, this is the day of "The American Idol" and Paris Hilton.

All the American people know is what they hear in 2 second sound bites and clips of Bush looking Presidential.

[kentuck]

4. The plan was...

that it would destroy Kerry.

[Darkseid69]

5. The wouldn't have been able to roll this out in October

because of the 90 day ban by outside groups. In one way, campaign finance reform created the swift boat groups, but it also caused them to blow their wad early and prevent later effectiveness.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

13. I wouldn't count on the law stopping them

[dolstein]

6. Should I call you "Mr. Delusional"?

The Swiftboat attacks haven't gone according to plan?

Let's see, these attacks have received more coverage in the past few weeks than the rising death counts in Iraq and the poor economic numbers.

Kerry's numbers are falling according to the LA Times.

It has allowed the media to implement the Dukakis storyline. You know the won -- liberal Democratic candidate emerges from convention with lead, takes some major hits from tough Republicans, loses lead, loses election. That is now the script that will fuel news stories for the next few weeks at least, particularly if Bush emerges from his own covention with a lead, which now seams almost certain.

If this is failure, than I'd hate to see what success is.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

10. You just did.

But thanks for (sort of) asking.

Anyway, you'll see.

[loudsue]

25. I thought we got rid of you!!

After you went over to freerepublic and started bragging about how you were always causing trouble over here....we were all sort of thinking you wouldn't have the nerve to come back. We were wrong, huh?

But then, according to you, ALL Democrats are "wrong"...ALL the time.

Enjoy your convention.

:kick::kick::kick:

[in_cog_ni_to]

7. I don't know if this is true, but

yesterday someone posted from a blog/freeper site that the smearboat vets have saved their best, most damaging ad, until last..... Yet to be released. :shrug: I don't think we've seen the end of this crap....unfortunately.

[tridim]

8. And the best way to deflect a backlash?

More 527 ads jam packed with even bigger lies about Kerry. I'm sure this is their plan. If they keep Kerry busy defending himself against the lies, there's no time to talk about the details of the last one. Just keep heaping shit on the pile and eventually the shit at the bottom will get covered up and lost.

I'm fairly confident that it's not a winning strategy, but Kerry needs to be ready for it anyway. I think he is. The good thing about all this is, it proves that the Dems are the good guys. When Kerry wins, he'll be able to use the giant shit-pile to his advantage.

[kentuck]

9. I think you are correct....

They will keep heaping crap upon crap. It is futile to try and respond to each one. That would be a definite losing strategy. Kerry has to destroy their credibility by defining them with the truth. They are negative, dirty, character-assassinating crap. What did you expect from George W Bush?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

24. But if crap is all you have

then the people begin to see that the messenger is crap too.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

11. There is another

huge smear campaign comung against John Edwards. Some A-holes on Wall street have collected millions for this.

[Jacobin]

12. Do you think it will sway the undecided voters to vote for Kerry?

Apart from the satisfaction of having proved these people to be liars and (amazement) coordinating with the Bush* campaign, from a strategic standpoint, I wonder if the SmearBoat thing is going according to plan for Rove.

We are only fighting for 5 to 7% of the voters.

SmearBoat obviously won't detract from Kerry's support nor turn BushBots into Kerry supporters.

[yellowcanine]

16. And Lambert, NOT a Kerry supporter, backs Kerry's version.

"Oh, what tangled webs we weave...."

[NewYorkerfromMass]

17. Yes. These things take time. eom

[Zen Democrat]

19. This is not all the smear they have planned for John Kerry.

First roll out the SwiftVets, then the "war crimes" attacks, then the so-called "Paris negotiations with the North Vietnamese", and then some FBI background about the VVAW being a radical, violent organization. They are planning a long drawn-out campaign of smear and the SwiftVets business is just the beginning.

From what I understand, Rove had smears in the can for all of the Dem primary candidates. Whoever would have won -- Kerry, Dean, Edwards, Clark, Gebhardt and so on, was gonna get hit with lies about their background.

IMO, Rove has overplayed his dirty hand this time and he's being called on it.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

20. No. They are being discredited

summarily too.

[faithnotgreed]

22. all i know is that if they pull any more vietnam stunts, not many are

going to care by the time they roll them out. and i think more will wonder why they cant stop talking about 35 yrs ago and why cant they talk about the tragedies going on now

why should they? people are losing jobs, benefits, insurance, loved ones in iraq, there is no domestic plan and no plan of any kind coming from bush

by the time any more attempted smears come out (esp regarding vietnam) after this mess, i really dont think the audience is going to be there.
and considering the lashing the cable media has gotten over this by other more respected media, i dont think they will jump at quite the same

people like a good dustup but once you show thats all you have, then it gets old very quick.

bush better get some new material...

[goodhue]

23. You are correct IMHO.

I am confident as well.

[skip fox]

26. Resource file with hot links on Swift Boat Vets in DU's Editorial section

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x70032

Please keep me informed of new stories with links so this can be of use for us all.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

27. Anymore here with me on this?

[ibegurpard]

30. This is the kind of issue that needed to score a direct, fatal blow.

It has not succeeded in that. It wounded, no doubt, but it didn't kill. Now, the spin is starting to turn against these guys and the BFEE. More smears will likely be viewed with more suspicion (kind of like the constant terror alerts). Two months to go and Kerry is still standing and we are going into the RNC with questions about Bush ties to this group and even a few questions about his whereabouts during the Vietnam War beginning to surface.

[mzmolly]

28. I kinda think your right. I think they pulled out their biggest gun a bit

too soon? We've got lots of time to recover, and I don't think there's much more damage to be done?

Hope were right on that thought. :crazy:

[snyder]

29. SBVT Attacks Went EXACTLY According to Plan

They neutralized the central theme of the Democratic convention; they cast doubt on Kerry's integrity; they prevented Kerry from moving to other issues; they've blocked Kerry's ability to talk about the Iraq War (along with Kerry's own idiotic statement that he'd still vote for the war resolution); they shaved five points off of Kerry's poll numbers; they put Bush's campaign in the position of setting the agenda with Kerry in the position of reacting to whatever Bush and his surrogates put out there.

If Kerry loses the election, the loss will be directly traceable to the SBVT attacks and his campaign's inexplicable refusal to respond to them for almost three weeks. Kerry is now at a low point in the polls because of the SBVT ads, and Bush will gain further momentum from his convention. I expect Kerry to start the post-Labor Day season at a significant disadvantage. It's by no means the end of the world, but it's stunning to have seen complacency creep into the Kerry campaign so quickly.

Don't blame the Swiftliars. This is Kerry's own campaign's fault. They were caught napping. I wonder if these people have gotten the message yet. I have to wonder: Did Kerry's people think this whole thing is a contest for president of the Yale glee club?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

32. Sorry. Too much time left to correct.

And didja' notice Bush's lawyer resigned? :hi:
Believe what you must.

[snyder]

33. Lawyer's Resignation Immaterial

Look, anyone whose opinion would be affected by that was going to be for Kerry anyway. The lawyer is classic inside baseball. Oh, and by the way, the networks are now openly referring to the SBVT story as old news. On CNN last night the anchor apologized for mentioning it, saying "Sorry to beat a dead horse ..."

Face it, folks, those attacks worked. This was a blunder on the part of a complacent Kerry campaign. They sat there while the other side pissed on them. Now it's too late to fight back, because the Republican Convention is going to drown out every other political story. How dumb could the Kerry people have been?!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

34. Nope. It's no longer what the ads told us about John Kerry

it's now turned to what they tell us about George Bush. And Bush's lawyer helps tell us a lot about George bush already.
You'll see.
I can't respond anymore tonight. Gotta go! :hi:

[snyder]

35. But WE Already Knew That

The general voting public isn't watching it as closely as you and I are. And those who are still "undecided" are simply not going to be swayed by that sort of stuff. The undecideds don't trust anyone, which is why negative ads work so well with them.

[Lex]

36. No, the Swifboat ads won't work in the long run.

Lots of people think Bush is a liar and cunning little asshole.

The Swiftboat ads at first seemed true (and this is when the polling was done that you are seeing now) but shortly thereafter the ads were shot down good and completely as LIES (wait for the polling that will reflect this).

The whole saga of the Swiftboaters just confirmed to most people that Bush is a liar and cunning little asshole who will do anything or say anything (like there are WMDs or Saddam has uranium).

Anyway, at most some people may have waivered a day or two because of the Swiftboat ads, but then it was clear that Bush LIED yet AGAIN.

Kerry will lose NO GROUND in the long run, and if anything, proved what a bunch of slimeballs are in the White House right now.

Bush was found out to be LYING once MORE.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

31. The SwiftLiars and Rove are counting on the stupidity of the people

The Neocons are relying on people's stupidity and their willingness to accept the smell of every Bush fart as though it were the first rose of spring. That is the main part of the plan. Even with the lawyer's resignation, you have complete pathologic liars like Bay Buchanan and Bob Novak saying that the SwiftLiars have proven their case. And some people apparently believe them!

If Audie Murphy had been the Democratic candidate, they would have tried to trash him and they actually would have had millions of ignorant knuckledraggers believing the smears. They would have said that Congressional Medal of Honor recipient Audie Murphy didn't single-handedly fight off an attack by 250 German soldiers while sitting at the machine gun of a burning tank, killing or capturing over half of them while being shot at. They would have said that the Germans didn't return fire and didn't even notice Audie Murphy on the battlefield because he was too short, and he looked French besides.