Bill Clinton AGAIN undermines Obama. They want McCain to win.

[jezebel]

http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/bill-clinton-in-denver-again-undercuts-obama-2008-08-26.html
Bill Clinton in Denver again undercuts Obama
By Sam Youngman
Posted: 08/26/08 01:47 PM
DENVER — Bill Clinton appeared to undermine Sen. Barack Obama again Tuesday.
The former president, speaking in Denver, posed a hypothetical question in which he seemed to suggest that that the Democratic Party was making a mistake in choosing Obama as its presidential nominee.

He said: "Suppose you're a voter, and you've got candidate X and candidate Y. Candidate X agrees with you on everything, but you don't think that candidate can deliver on anything at all. Candidate Y you agree with on about half the issues, but he can deliver. Which candidate are you going to vote for?"

Then, perhaps mindful of how his off-the-cuff remarks might be taken, Clinton added after a pause: "This has nothing to do with what's going on now."

The comments are unlikely to be taken as an innocent mistake by those Democrats who continue to be angry with the former president for, they say, not supporting the Illinois senator wholeheartedly, if not implicitly undercutting him.

The controversial comments came just hours before Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.), the former first lady and principal rival to Obama, was due to speak from the convention podium.

Democrats concerned about what the former president might say when he addresses the Democratic convention Wednesday night would likely have cringed at his remarks Tuesday to a group of foreign dignitaries.

The former president talked about the importance of a politician being able to deliver on his promises following an electoral victory and how voters factor in that ability to deliver when picking their candidate.

During the contentious and at times nasty nomination battle between Clinton and Obama, the Clinton campaign repeatedly pushed the question of whether Obama, a freshman senator, had the experience or the ability to deliver on his promises if elected. Clinton, they argued, was more suited to do so.

The former president devoted much of his sometimes-rambling remarks to solving the global energy crisis and the need to address climate change.

But time and again he returned to his great love of politics, noting that it was more than the closeness and intensity of the nomination battle between his wife and Obama that piqued his interest this year, but the "infusion of cash from small amounts by Internet donors and the explosion of blog sites."

"For those of us interested in politics, it was an endlessly fascinating process already, and it's still got some twists and turns between now and November," Clinton said.

The former president did say early in his remarks that the purpose of a party convention is to "introduce the candidate in a new and different and hopefully more positive way... unify the party and defining the battle" between the two parties.

The unifying-the-party aspect is what has many Democrats concerned about Clinton's Wednesday night remarks.

Clinton has been a media magnet throughout the year as his remarks have caused heartache and headaches to former and current supporters.

From when he called Obama's candidacy "a fairytale" to when he compared the Illinois senator's win in South Carolina to that of Rev. Jesse Jackson's, many Clinton loyalists, detractors and analysts feel that Clinton did irreparable damage to both his wife's candidacy and his legacy as president.

Now in a convention that continues to be racked with stories and questions about how unified the Democratic Party truly is, Clinton's appearance Wednesday — and his tendency to go off the teleprompter — has some Democrats very nervous.

Former Clinton aide and Democratic strategist Paul Begala, however, told The Hill that the former president is solidly behind Obama's candidacy.

"He's totally for Barack," Begala said Tuesday. "He's totally for Barack."

[tblue]

1. Who is Bill Clinton, really? In his heart of hearts, who the hell is he?

Is he not who we all once believed he was?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

113. Evan Bayh.

[farmboxer]

125. Republican strategy

it's not fooling anyone now.

[NJmaverick]

2. Context is missing

sounds like another right wing attempt to cause trouble

[jezebel]

5. What type of fucking context do you need for this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

He said: "Suppose you're a voter, and you've got candidate X and candidate Y. Candidate X agrees with you on everything, but you don't think that candidate can deliver on anything at all. Candidate Y you agree with on about half the issues, but he can deliver. Which candidate are you going to vote for?"

[Gman]

7. The context of hating the Clintons seems to be what you're doing

[jezebel]

12. I'm not hating. I am realistically seeing the truth in front of my own eyes. Deny it all you want.

[speedoo]

35. What "truth"?

You have no idea what the context of Clinton's comment was.

This is just the media trying to manufacture a controversy. And you're falling for the trap.

[demo dutch]

59. You should really consider the source... Sam Youngman is friends with Mitt

Romney's National Press Secretary Kevin Madden. You people eat up everything you're being fed!!!

[scheming daemons]

9. Personally, I need to know who is candidate X and who is Y.....

[tekisui]

28. Yeah, I don't see mcpow as someone who know how to get anything done.

[NJmaverick]

10. Like why this example was brought up

clearly this example was meant to illustrate a point, that was deliberately omitted.

[11 Bravo]

Did you notice Bill's use of the pronoun "he" in describing the candidate who can deliver?

Would that be Hillary or Barack? For the love of God, let it go. We get it, you don't like the Clintons. Now, what will it take to get you to shut the fuck up about that and start working to elect our candidate, Barack Obama?

[itcfish]

54. Exactly

The media has been doing this for a while now. They need to sell papers I guess.

[Cosmocat]

76. He is NOT stupid

This is one of the brightest political minds this country has seen.'

He is TOO smart to know how that quote looks out of context, which is HOW IT WOULD BE TAKEN, in this campaign.

The next two days, both Clintons need to deliver speeches that start with "John McCain SUCKS, ends with John McCain sucks, and is filled in with 100 more John McCain sucks.

[K Gardner]

111. I agree.. funny, they didn't even post the question he was answering.

[Larkspur]

3. Bill "Sour Grapes" Clinton is feeding his bruised ego again

[vssmith]

106. Agreed

[Pathwalker]

4. Operation Chaos thanks you for your help. Your check is in the mail.

n/t

[Gman]

6. Just more Clinton hating/Clinton bashing

If you hate the Clintons you think Bill's undermining. Frankly, I'm not sure who is candidates X or who is candidate Y, but that's because I don't hate the Clintons.

[cali]

26. i actually agree with you

people are jumping to conclusions. I have no idea what Bill was trying to say, but I don't see how it's about Obama.

[Gman]

50. My goodness... it's gonna rain!

We agree! :)

[BeyondGeography]

8. What an old loser he has become

Just STFU, make your little speech tomorrow and go away.

[SuperTrouper]

17. My feelings, exactly

[Catherine Vincent]

21. Feel better, Clinton-hater?nt

[BeyondGeography]

31. Yeah, I like that

Just about everyone on this board, myself included, spent the entire eight years of his presidency defending him, voting for him and, if you live in New York, as I do, supporting his wife. All we ask now that Obama is the nominee is that they play along and try to think of something larger than themselves. For that, we are labelled haters.

Fuck off.

[Catherine Vincent]

55. Truth hurts?

[BeyondGeography]

63. Doesn't it?

[gal]

100. I'm a Clinton hater and it doesn't hurt at all.

So what?

[hell-bent]

101. I have a feeling your claim of past support of the Clintons is

total bullshit! I'll wager that when the Clintons were running this country, you were more concerned with your adolescent complexion than supporting the former President. "Just about everyone on this board, myself included, spent the entire eight years of presidency defending him,....." Horse manure!
Some of Obama's supporters have not "dried out" behind the ears.

[dionysus]

41. wtf? clinton opens piehole, says stupid shit, and people that notice are "haters"?!

bill needs to STFU if he is not going to help.

[leftynyc]

86. You don't even know who Clinton

was talking about. You are attributing nefarious motives because you slurp up the media narrative. The right wing pundits are loving people like you.

[dionysus]

95. please... you know how he acted during the primary (like an ass), yet still you cover for him.

to you he will always be the Sweet Little Baby Jesus(tm)

:eyes:

[leftynyc]

98. We'll forget the fact I'm

Jewish for the moment. The facts are that you are attributing motives to him with no evidence. They'd laugh you out of a court room for that. You want to guess - knock yourself out but anyone can do that. Has it occured to you that once again the press has successfully managed to push your buttons and keep the primary wars alive which helps only them? You should be feeling manipulated (and not in a good way).

[hell-bent]

102. You're forgetting that you are dealing with

some adolescents here!

[leftynyc]

103. Not to mention mindreaders

psychics and shrinks. Sometimes I just come here for the amusement. It never disappoints.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QC]

112. And what a bore the Clinton-obsessives have become. n/t

[Carolina]

120. My feelings exactly, too

I used to love Bill Clinton, defend him ardently against all Clinton haters... BUT now, I just wish he'd STFU and go away.

The Washington insider media hated him from the get-go in 1992 because they considered him trash. I fear he's proving them right.

[knixphan]

121. good advice.

[Erin Elizabeth]

11. I read that quote as if I were a friend of mine

who was and is a huge Hillary supporter and I heard "better to vote for McCain, people."

[jezebel]

19. Exactly. nt

[catgirl]

34. Interesting interpretation

I think you may be right. 2012 is already in the works.

[Erin Elizabeth]

45. My friend has said pretty much the same thing Bill said.

That's why I immediately thought of her. She'd know EXACTLY what he meant, immediately.

[ellie]

13. Fuck Bill Clinton

I am so sick of the Clintons.

[elocs]

14. If Bill Clinton is really "totally for Barack",

then it is time for him to make sure all of his words and statements clearly indicate that is what he really means without question or reservation. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. None.

[griffi94]

15. i loves me some unity

[JaneQPublic]

16. I prefer to withhold judgment until after his speech.

If he delivers the goods, then all is forgiven.

[TwilightGardener]

18. Eh, no one cares what Bill is saying, except the media hoping to divide us.

[jenmito]

20. On Wednesday, AFTER Hillary and her supporters go through whatever they're going to go through,

(and I think she'll do well for Obama), Obama should CUT Bill from the schedule! He's nothing but trouble!

[Cha]

52. That'd be the biggest

pleasant surprise he could give during the convention. :)

[catgirl]

110. I agree.

[anonymous171]

22. God dammit. Should have made Hillary VP.

That way they would have an actual incentive to see Obama win. "Keep your friends close, you enemies closer"

[TwilightGardener]

25. I don't think Obama should reward extortion. He made the right choice.

[vssmith]

107. It would be so sweet to win without them

[Erin Elizabeth]

27. Ringing endorsement there.

Great reason to make her VP. So she doesn't knife him in the back. Lovely.

[anonymous171]

32. It's called politics. I wasn't a supporter of that ticket but it would've been easier

to manage the Clintons if they were on the same side and not straddling the middle. They know that if Obama loses they will be ideally positioned for a 2012 run. However, if they are too lukewarm in their support for Obama then people will blame them for his loss and refuse to vote for them in 2012.

[GoesTo11]

48. Bill is saying these things, not Hillary

Hillary, as many have said, has to be on her absolute best behavior from now until November if she wants any kind of political future.
What Bill says is not her decision, as far as I know.

[Carolina]

122. Bullshit, if they fuck things up this time

they will be pariahs to the Democratic Party and they will NEVER win in 2012 because they will truly be hated -- not only by repukes who always loathed them but by Dems as well. HRC may even kiss her NY Senate seat goodbye!

[Bobbie Jo]

71. Yep....That just screams "Change you can count on."

..and even juicier red meat to throw at RW beasts. Just gives them another reason to get up in the morning and get stoked for another round of Clinton wars. After all, they provided an industry for Faux, Limpballs and his ilk.

Anyone else what to relive 1994....how soon we forget.

[AngryOldDem]

89. All the more reason why Obama made the right choice.

You don't give in to bullies, neither do you give in to petulant crybabies.

And as a citizen and Democrat, I am insulted and angered beyond words that someone like Bill Clinton would apparently gladly sacrifice us to a third Bush administration merely because his fucking ego -- and that of his wife's -- got hurt. Fuck that, and fuck him.

I'd like to know how in the hell the Clintons ever got the idea that the Democratic Party is all about them. I'm sick of it. Have been since spring.

I wonder how they feel about all those free ads they've been giving McCain. HRC must be really proud to be doing quite a lot of John's heavy lifting.

The Democrats always seem to have a talent for eating their own.

[PresidentObama]

23. It's totally for Obama. Begala is right. Get over it, and stop bashing the Clintons.

[Balderdash]

24. Bullshit

"Now in a convention that continues to be racked with stories and questions about how unified the Democratic Party truly is, Clinton's appearance Wednesday — and his tendency to go off the teleprompter — has some Democrats very nervous."

More MSM divisive tactics and trust that a DUer will pounce on it. You prove them right everyday by being divisive and taking that dangling carrot.

[Erin Elizabeth]

43. I don't think it's an either-or kind of thing.

I think it's true that the MSM and the right wing (I know I sort of just repeated myself) are gleefully exploiting this angle.

AND I think Bill is obviously not on board.

They are not mutually exclusive. They are both true.

[flamingdem]

117. agreed ... two factors being confused and conflated nt

[Nedsdag]

29. When was the last time Bill got laid?

If it's been a while, the stress is showing.

[4themind]

30. Not completely certain what Bill meant in this case but...

in general (especially over the partisan last few years) I"d be more concerned about gridlock (nothing getting done) when The executive branch and the house/senate are at odds in party affiliation than when when the legislative and excutive branches have the same party alignment (although I'll concede there are exceptions and certain bills still don't get through, i.e. the 1992/1993 health care plan)

[yourguide]

33. Honestly, if I were there tomorrow, I'd consider booing him.

he just cant keep his mouth shut...or he just wont.

[polichick]

39. I'll bet the Obama campaign will send out requests for his supporters to cheer...

And they'll need to.

[yourguide]

65. I agree. and up until that, I would have.

sigh, why bill why????

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

36. The republicans would pay you to disseminate this tripe, but you're giving it away for free.

[SeaLyons]

37. Another divisive post....

[invictus]

38. nt

[ContinentalOp]

40. I dunno, I actually agree with him. Right on all the issues but can't deliver...

sounds like a perfectly accurate description of Hillary to me! The thought process he's talking about is basically one of the main reasons I voted for Obama. On health care for example, I disagree with both of their plans (I want single payer) so I chose the guy who may possibly be able to make some progress over the person who has a proven track record of failure on health care reform.

[L. Coyote]

42. Is everyone enjoying "Operation Chaos, DU Version" ??

I'm getting the impression I'm reading the freerepuker site.

It is peak activity week for trolls and ratf**fers, that's for sure!!

[Pathwalker]

60. Clearly, DU is hosting the Rat Fu$kers convention, this year.

The place is overrun by RATS.

[L. Coyote]

64. The number of posters with 13 posts is remarkable. They must have hired a lot of new RFs.

[peace13]

44. All of you folks worrying about what Bill has to say....

Get your butts out to an Obama headquarters and help these folks win this election. Dissecting what a desperate man has to say is not going to help Obama win this. If you are not volunteering I think you should join Bill in keeping your lips closed!!!!

[snooper2]

46. He is just so important in his own mind...go play Golf

with your buddy, buddy... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:















:mad:

[cyndensco]

47. I hope the remaining "twists and turns between now and November"

are limited to Obama vs. Mccain and not Obama vs. Clinton.

The best I can say about Bill is that I'm not convinced he is on board.

[TexasObserver]

49. "Suppose one candidate is married to a big egomaniac who sold his soul to the devil ...."

If that fat, stupid bastard had any sense at all, he'd know that HE is the main reason Democrats lost in 2000, and the reason his wife lost. HE is the problem, much more so than her.

[ieoeja]

51. Are you sure he wasn't explaining his wife's loss?

He said: "Suppose you're a voter, and you've got candidate X and candidate Y. Candidate X agrees with you on everything, but you don't think that candidate can deliver on anything at all. Candidate Y you agree with on about half the issues, but he can deliver. Which candidate are you going to vote for?"

The article does not say how these remarks came up in his talk with foreign dignitaries. But it makes more sense as an attempt by him to explain to outsiders why his own political party selected someone else over his wife. The next President is going to have to work with the House and the Senate to deliver on any issues. And the Clintons rather famously do not get along with the folks in Washington.

[demo dutch]

53. Context??? nothing more than DC spin by Sam Youngman ... No surprise there

friends with Mitt Romney National Press Secretary Kevin Madden

[tularetom]

56. The poor old bastard is soft in the head

I'm not sure he really knows what he's saying.

IMO thee presidency has a tendency to bring on early onset senile dementia. Look at raygun, look at poppy bush. Look at the chimp. OK forget the chimp, he was suffering from senile dementia years before he weaseled his way into thee presidency. Clinton also had bypass surgery and may have suffered a period of oxygen loss to the brain.

Anyway he appears to me to be a couple of tacos short of a combination plate.

[demo dutch]

57. Consider the source.. Sam Youngman... friends with Mitt Romney's

National Press Secretary Kevin Madden. You people eat everything up that you're being fed!

[asjr]

58. The hill and Sam Youngman evidently

wanted to stir up a nest of wasps--mission accomplished.

[demo dutch]

61. Amazing right?... how people here eat up everything they're being served!

[Sensitivity]

62. STOP, STOP, STOP. Bill Clinton is and UNMATCHED political talent. Has the right to give advice.

Let's wait to see how he used his talent on Wednesday.

[wyldwolf]

66. NEON FLASHING::: hey! Yoo hoo. Look here ------------------------>:::::::

Bill Clinton is clearly referring to Republicans...

"Suppose you're a voter, and you've got candidate X and candidate Y. Candidate X agrees with you on everything, but you don't think that candidate can deliver on anything at all.

This is John McCain. Everyone knows a Republican president will not be able to deliver in a solid Democratic House and Senate

Candidate Y you agree with on about half the issues, but he can deliver. Which candidate are you going to vote for?"

This is Obama. His measures will sail through the Congress, although Republicans might only agree with half of them.

:shrug:

There you have it.

[TornadoTN]

74. That's a stretch, to be honest

I'm not saying that what Bill said was purposely meant to undercut Obama, but I don't think he would say something like "You might agree with McCain 100% of the time, but he won't deliver" to a bunch of Democrats.

Bill is under the microscope, yes, but he has an uncanny ability to make himself look even worse each time he gets involved in this campaign.

[wyldwolf]

84. the OP is the stretch. "Progressives" are so gullible

[TornadoTN]

87. Your use of the word "Progressive" is interesting

But apparently you didn't read my post and decided to jump. Typical.

[wyldwolf]

90. yes it is

And I did read your post. I wasn't jumping at you. I clearly stated the "OP."

[TornadoTN]

92. Ok, then I appreciate you clearing that up for me

I agree, it may be reaching and we all know that the media is looking for a story here when there isn't one.

I just think that Bill should use a little more tact when speaking of topics like this, given the spotlight and the media.

[LongDistanceRunner]

104. ahahahahaahah!! that's rich

No Democrat agrees with John McCain

[wyldwolf]

116. not as rich as the OP and you're wrong about the other part, too

[WinkyDink]

67. Can't either of the brilliant---and I mean that---Clintons finds ways to express themselves that

have no need of "explanations" or wonder how "it might be taken"??

[demo dutch]

68. Jezebel! please try to be an educated media consumer before you post stuff and consider yr sources!

[zulchzulu]

69. I'd like to see any Clinton defenders tell me what the fuck he meant...

It's obvious he's winking and nodding to the PUMAfuckers.

Do I hate the Clintons? No. I only have to deal with them ONE MORE FUCKING DAY...

For those Clinton defenders, define what Bill was talking about... honestly...

[demo dutch]

77. You just just eating it up, even the stuff that's taken out of context and spread around by

rightwingers... Look at the source for pete sake... Come on you can't be seriously falling into the trap!

[wyldwolf]

96. during the primaries he posted the Hannity "Clinton was offered bin Laden" slop

[QC]

114. It's amazing howmuch like Free Republic this place has sounded the past few months,

Every one of the knuckledragging wingnut faves has gotten a thorough workout lately. It's enough to make one wonder, isn't it?

[wyldwolf]

88. Why?

You would just deny it, anyway. You have a history of believing right wing talking point.

[Jakes Progress]

70. Welcome to MSM on DU.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

72. I was suspicious of the kittycultists from the beginning and it is now obvious

that they are a bought-and-paid-for ratfuck dirty trick by the Repukes. HRC never had anything to do with it. But this halfhearted, it's all about me bullshit that Bill Clinton has been spouting for the last few months infuriates me. Bill, you were better than the alternatives, but you still proved to be nothing but a useful tool for the global corporatists. It is not about you anymore. It is not about your wife. It is about Barack Obama and Joe Biden. Hillary may not be hugely enthusiastic, but she is on board and saying the right things. You, and I voted for you twice, continue this lame-ass halfway pandering on behalf of Grampy McShits. Why?

Delivering on promises, Bill? How'd that health care reform you promised work out? You triangulated everything for years under the guidance of an addle pated foot fetishist who got caught in bed with a hooker and in so doing sold out a lot of traditional Democratic principles.

Bill, I say this as a one time admirer. Shut up. Go to Papua New Guinea for the next three months. Just shut up and go.

[JerseygirlCT]

73. Bill? Shut. Up. nt

[liberaldem4ever]

75. I just want to wait to see if he will get a glowing recommendation

of Obama with his speech. If he does, all this other stuff is meaningless. I know that Bill Clinton said some really ugly hurtful things during the primary that I didn't like at ALL. But it was a competition, his wife was a competitor, and it's OVER.

Everything I remember about Bill Clinton while he was President showed me that he supported Dems and Democratic values/issues. He made mistakes and some were really bad ones. But I can't see that Bill Clinton who was President for two terms caring more about getting his wife elected someday than he cares about and loves this country and the American people.

I really want to hear his speech before I say any negative stuff about the man I voted for and loved in the '90's. I still remember that guy.

[LisaM]

78. To construe this as anti-Obama is a stretch, IMO

If Ed Schultz is pushing it, I'm not surprised.

[emilyg]

79. Go away.

[shaniqua6392]

81. This is completely out of context.

Quit gobbling up the bull crap that the right wing and the MSM are feeding you. Bill Clinton is a Democrat first and foremost.

[BigDDem]

82. not only that....

he use to run drugs out of the Mena Airport!!

[blondeatlast]

83. Lose the hatred. nt

[leftynyc]

85. Thanks for slurping up the media

narrative. It's doing wonders for morale.

[jakem]

91. Reminds me of a guy I worked with briefly as a car salesman...

He said, "those gooks, we should have blown them all away in the war."

Then, turning to the Korean salesman next to me, "oh, not you Tom, you're ok."

[last1standing]

93. Why is posting rightwing propaganda not considered flamebait?

n/t

[BrklynLiberal]

94. More shit stirring by the Repukes?????????????

[Neecy]

97. Repigs are running with this

Tom Brokaw has read quote this twice now - with great smugness - so he can get the message out under the guise of asking people to comment on it. I'm sure he'll read it another half dozen times again before the convention is over.

Nice going, Bill! Way to support our ticket and make our convention a success! Asshole.

[mrs_p]

99. i try not to be reactionary

to what the media reports about wjc, but.... let's just say that this election has seriously damaged my opinion of the man who was the 1st president i ever voted for.

[joshcryer]

105. WHAT THE FUCK HE'S TALKING ABOUT MCCAIN LOCK THIS SHIT

He is obviously trashing McCain, saying he can't deliver! WHAT THE FUCK

[guruoo]

108. Bwaaa....

[mokawanis]

109. Much ado about nothing

Bill isn't the main player this time around and I seriously doubt he wants to do any real harm to our nominee. While he could certainly do more to help Obama I don't think he'll do any substantial harm. I'm excusing myself from any further arguments about this subject because I just don't think it's all that important. There are better things to focus on right now.

[KamaAina]

115. The Hill is an RW rag

you really should be reading Roll Call.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hill_(newspaper)

Since 2003, The Hill's editor in chief has been Hugo Gurdon, previously a reporter and editor at The Daily Telegraph (London) and the National Post (Toronto).

The National Post was convicted felon Conrad Black's answer to the more "liberal" Globe and Mail. As for the "Torygraph", well,...

[flamingdem]

119. CNN is stoking this fire too nt

[SoCalDem]

118. "...introduce the candidate..."... gee, how personal of you, Bill

:puke:

[progressivebydesign]

123. You know.. I was a solid Hillary supporter and now support Obama.

I was called every filthy name you could think of all over the internet, simply because I preferred Hillary over Obama. When Hillary asked her supporters to support Obama now.. I did. And I'm done with all that.

Having said all that...

You need to get over yourself with this Clinton hating shit. What's your point? Why is it so important on both sides to keep this shit up between Obama and the Clintons?

Why not save your outrage for something that helps keep the GOP out of the White House?? :banghead:

[cboy4]

124. You're so gullible

:spray: