I don't have a probelm with Palin having 5 kids and running for any office she wants. But...

[Perky]

I have a huge problem with here running for higher office with a Kid with Down's syndrome.

That baby is 6 months old and needs parents close by as much as possible.

I would apply the same rule to either parent for the first three years of life. If I had a special needs kids... I would reprioritize my life to accomodate that child. and the needs of my spouse. I would find a job where I could work from home or have a short commute.


Like Michelle Obama saud Nothing should be more central to your life than raising your kids.

I absolutely applaud Sara Palin's decision to have this child. I cant imagine the heartbreak and the coming challenges the Palins face. But I am astounded that she would devalue the importance of "Being there" for her child for a job that would reuire so much of her attention and so much more should McCain not be able to complete his term.

How can a party who espouse family values even aske her to serve? Haw can a mom do this to her family?

[gateley]

1. To begin with, how could she return to work three days after the baby is born?

To whom would you entrust a special child like that so quickly? I didn't feel the LOVE from her toward her kids as you do from Obama and Biden.

[Captain Hilts]

3. Just don't go there. How do you know? Go after her political stances. nt

[Fearless]

11. If we treat her with kid gloves isn't that sexism as well?

[Sisaruus]

28. sex discrimination?

You are setting the women's movement back 40 years. I was part of the feminist wave that fought against employment discrimination - including discrimination based on pregnancy, possible pregnancy, and motherhood. Ad I recall that the governor of my state a few years back had a child with Downs and no one questioned his ability to do his job or, conversely, his commitment to his child. The woman has a right, a basic and legally protected right, to both pursue a career and be a parent. Find a valid reason to attack her candidacy, one that doesn't make you more right-wing than the republicans.

[Fearless]

31. To treat her differently that one would treat a male in her position is the definition of sexism.

I'm sorry if you think otherwise.

[LittleClarkie]

36. One of her political stances is how pro-life she is.

As I said in another thread:

"It shouldn't be any of my business how she wants to raise her family, but does it strike anyone else as odd that the mother of a special needs baby who talks about what a gift that child is and about the challenge of having such a child, and who belongs to a party that emphasizes family values, is running for a job that will likely not give her much time with this gift of a child?

I've heard it said that she's commented that this is the sort of child that others would probably abort. So her choice of having this child is used politically, and as a way to put down others who might make a different choice. How fair is that though, considering her resources. Would more women consider giving birth to a special needs child if they knew they had the resources and the support that this woman will likely have?"

[krabigirl]

14. I just don't see how she physically COULD go back to the office three days after.

Bleeding, engorged breasts, sore, no sleep - OMG. I would die.

[Captain Hilts]

19. It REALLY varies according to everybody and what # kid it is, etc.

I know someone who was gardening the next day. You just can't tell.

Giving birth is a crapshoot.

[Perky]

20. Well she has had five kids.

and labor does get easier. Besides it may well have been mostly work from home

[mitchum]

26. Easy...if one didn't actually give birth

it's her daughter's kid

[VenusRising]

47. Keith Olbermann mentioned the baby was 4 months premature.

It's really a weird situation.

[colinmom71]

55. That's not possible....

If she announced her pregnancy during her seventh month, then Palin did not give birth four months early. Four months early would be about when my son was born - at 24 weeks or about at the six month mark. And Down Syndrome would be the least of the family's concern were the baby born that early... Olbermann must have been given bad information to report that.

[VenusRising]

64. I'm sure that he will make a correction on Monday if that's so.

Otherwise, this story is getting more and more unbelievable. :crazy:

[colinmom71]

69. Really! That and it just occurred to me that he may have meant to say 4 weeks...

And accidentally said months instead and just didn't catch the mistake while on-air... I'd be willing to bet that's what he meant to say.

[Captain Hilts]

2. Then Obama should not have spent the past two years barely at home....

Politicians ignore their kids. You can't be prez or vice prez and a steady presence in your kids' lives.

Dodd ran with small kids.

JFK ran with small kids.

[Perky]

5. No. there is a huge difference woth DS Kids.

There is also a difference between making the desision to run in long consultation with your spouse and opting to run with just two days notice.

[CatsDogsBabies]

24. Obama's kids are old enough to understand that they

have a father and are able to maintain a relationship with him even if he is on the road. Newborns have none of this awareness. Newborns don't know where they end and another person begins, nor do they have any memory. You can't tell a newborn "Daddy will be home tomorrow." Newborns need their needs taken care of 24/7 so that when they get a little older and turn into little people, they are capable of having sane, fulfilling relationships. Why are some so seemingly anti-parenting?

[hedgehog]

35. The Obamas arranged for Michelle's mother to take care of the

kids on the nights neither Barack nor Michelle could be home.

[LittleClarkie]

40. None of his kids have special needs. He hasn't used then as proof of some pro-life morality

or passed judgment on people who may have made other choices than his.

It's how she's used the birth politically, and it's the hypocrisy. That's the point. Not whether or not she has kids.

[Psephos]

4. I've seen a number of posts on this general theme

My opinion is it stinks.

Boil down all the nicey-nice qualifications and this is the translation: a woman can't properly attend to family and career at the same time.

Also, regarding the heartbreak you're sure lies ahead, it appears Palin herself sees it quite differently.

We are going to lose a lot of independent voters if we start peddling this antifeminist, judgmental b.s. It's hypocrisy, plain and simple. Let's turn attention back to McLame's plans for the U.S. where it rightly belongs.

[Captain Hilts]

6. It DOES stink.

FDR: We had rotten kids!
ER: The Churchill kids were worse...

[Perky]

7. This is not a gender issue ...it is a parenting issue.

[Captain Hilts]

10. I agree with that, but it's rarely placed on men. nt

[Perky]

15. I am a guy and I would quit my well paying job the puts me on the road

three weeks outr of four and find something else close to home If we had a kids with Down's.

[Captain Hilts]

17. I respect that and I know men that got out of the navy because they...

didn't want to miss their kids growing up.

[Psephos]

21. I see...so apparently Mr. Palin is incapable of being a full partner in the parenting

That's what it sounds like to me.

I'm not speaking against you, I'm saying this kind of hypocrisy has no place in our constellation of values...values that many have sacrificed long and hard to bring to general acceptance.

It's political poison. Put the bottle down.

[LittleClarkie]

46. He's not running for vp and isn't using the birth of his child

as some sort of pro-life badge of honor.

[bigwillq]

8. I agree with your post.

:thumbsup:

[fishwax]

43. i agree n/t

[LittleClarkie]

45. What I see boiled down is that the woman is a raging hypocrite

who hold up the birth of a special needs child as some sort of pro-life badge of honor, talking about the gifts and challenges of having such a child, and then will be handing over the care of such a child to someone else.

How many people can afford the resources that she has at her disposal? Who is she do hold up her choice as being better than theirs when she's not even going to be the one raising the child half the time.

[THUNDER HANDS]

9. tells you something about a mother who would essentially abandon a child

to go campaigning around the country for two months.

Either McCain assured her that he'd lose and she wouldn't have to actually worry about serving, and she can raise her profile for a possible later-run...

...or she's just as egotistical and power-driven as people accuse Hillary Clinton of being.

[Captain Hilts]

12. I can't believe what I'm reading. Obama and McCain are egotistical and power-driven too.

To run for president you HAVE to be.

FDR: No comment.
ER: Weeeellll....

[THUNDER HANDS]

16. of course they are...but they also RAN for president

Palin just accepted a job offer, and all it entails. She wants all the glory without actually having to do the hard work for it - aside from giving up time with her developmentally disabled newborn (of course, she might not consider that hard work either).

[Captain Hilts]

22. That baby will have GREAT healthcare if she wins....nt

[Fearless]

32. The baby will have GREAT healthcare if Obama wins too.

[earthlover]

27. I do find it interesting and ironic....

...that some of us who would argue that Bill Clinton's personal life had nothing to do with his public life....would (out of the other side of one's mouth)argue that a mother of a special needs child should not run for VP.

This is insulting to women. It is insulting especially to mothers. And even more insulting to mothers of special needs children.

What was it that transformed some of us to the wrong side of these issues?

Jeez. Palin's weaknesses as a VP candidate are numerous. Why do we even feel the need to go here?

I am glad as hell she is the pick. McCain blew it big time. No longer can he use experience as an issue against Obama. Obama piced biden, and who did McCain pick to be a 72 year old heart-beat away from the presidency....

[THUNDER HANDS]

34. i'm not saying she shouldn't be able to run

she's free to be as neglectful and selfish as she wants to be, I just think it reflects poorly upon her.

[Psephos]

68. Well and succinctly said n/t

[Orangepeel]

13. It's only 66 days.

she probably doesn't expect to win.

[holiday]

18. you know why she is able to do this

because the child is not hers.

it sounds too fishy to me. wasn't it premature as well? Why would she fly in airplane back to Alaska? Are there any pregnant pics of her?

[Riverman]

Family Values! Hey Sarah, your new born baby has Downs Syndrome!

And you have four other chldren. Maybe the baby needs you at home! How selfish of you to pursue an unneeded political career while your children sit at home. Where are the Family Values Republicans? One must assume with your husband working jobs in the North Slope oil fields and on fishing boats that he is not home much. Who is raising your children? Are going to grow up being traumatized by the lack of a Mom and Dad at home, and then get into drugs and crimminal activity and thus a burden on society? Are the tax-payers going to have to pay for your lack of parenting while you were out building your political career? What king of mother are you, for God's sake?

Apparently, McShame doesn't care about your children either! What the hell is the matter with you people?

[Applepie]

23. My heart aches for this child

I have worked caring for children for working mothers. I know that I give them wonderful care but I know that it is not the care the mother can give. I believe that children need their mother. When I heard that she had an infant I was appalled that she would consider VP.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[Dreamer Tatum]

38. Typical

That's what I thought...you have nothing.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dreamer Tatum]

41. Spoken like someone with incontrovertible proof

You must lead an interesting life...when you get called on bullshit, people have to blow you.

Maybe you'll wise up when you turn 17.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Debi]

29. Why? How different is a Downs Syndrome child at 6 months than a typical child at six months?

:shrug:

[LittleClarkie]

51. A typical child she wouldn't be holding up as evidence of her pro-life morality

She has talked about how this is the sort of child that others would have aborted. Ah, but others don't have the resources she does, do they. And as a Conservative, she's not exactly in favor of the social services that would give them the resources.

She's holding up this child politically, and she's likely not even going to be around to experience the challenges and the gift that having such a child brings. Nice family values, Palin.

It's the hypocrisy.

[mitchum]

44. self delete: replied to wrong post...my apologies

[Perky]

48. As OP I alerted on the real troll

[lynne]

49. Quit lowering the sexism bar -

- I cannot believe the 17th century sexist threads I'm seeing here tonight.

[Perky]

50. This has nothing to do with gender as I have said in other subthreads.

[lynne]

53. Applying different standards to a woman than to a man is sexism.

It has everything to do with gender as this would not have been a topic had her husband been the VP nominee.

[Perky]

60. It woulod have for me...... read my other posts.

It has everything to with proper parneting.. Both parents need to be fully present when you have a kid with DS

[Perky]

71. Gimme a break

I think I know a littlme more about my motivations in the OP than you do. I would feel exactly the same if Obama had an infant with Downs. I would be opposed to him launching a bid. On the other hand. If Palin had a healthy infant.....I would not even raise the issue.

[mitchum]

52. Why in the hell was post 42 removed? I didn't call Dreamer Tatum a troll...

or request that he blow me in that one.

I just listed some curious facts about Palin's "pregnancy"

[JVS]

57. My shocking paternity conjectures, all gone!

:cry:

[mitchum]

58. I wasn't shocked...

but I really really like the lurid

ms mitchum says that words such as "taboo", "ligature", and "drifter" are like catnip to me

[LBJDemocrat]

54. Please stop.

A woman, just like a man, has the right to pursue any career he or she pleases regardless of whether they have children. She has a husband, and he can look after the kids, if it comes to that; or they can hire someone to help.

I can't believe what I'm reading here.

[shayes51]

56. exactly

[Tennessee Gal]

59. A Down syndrome child makes this different.

And I find no evidence that either parent in this case is making any special committment to the care of this child.

It is hypocritical of them to hold up this child as an example of their pro-life stance but make no statement on how they intend to care for the special needs of this child.

[Perky]

61. precisely

[Psephos]

65. You stand in judgment

yet they are the parents.

You didn't even know Palin's name yesterday and now today you "find no evidence that either parent in this case is making any special committment to the care of this child."

Something tells me your investigation was not exhaustive.

What you're really saying is a woman can't actually attend to both her family and her career, and that strangers should sit in judgment of a woman's family choices.

If this kind of hypocrisy doesn't go against every progressive fiber of our being, then I might as well join the John Birch Society. Meanwhile, outside the confines of DU, this kind of meme is going to cost us hard among independents, who actually think parties should walk the walk if they talk the talk.

Time to put this U-shaped pistol down, peeps, and turn the focus back on McSame's policies, where we don't have to be hypocrites to be effective critics.

[Perky]

66. umm Escuse me...but I knew Sare Paalins name and her creditentials and about he pregancy two month

ago,

And I amt saying word one about her gender. it is about being a parent for a kid with special needs.

If she had five kids and all were finre. I would not even raise the point.

[Psephos]

67. My post was not directed to you, so no "excuse me" is necessary

Meanwhile, I do not enjoy the direction of this thread. If there's anything I can't stand it's judgmental repugs pontificating about how other people should run their families. How disconcerting to find some of a similar ilk among our own numbers here.

I'm interested in winning this election in November. Self-appointed judges of a woman's family priorities are not going to help that cause.

PS it's Sarah Palin

[Perky]

62. It is not about being a woman it it about being a parent with a down's kid

Male or female. It has to reprioritize your life or you ar a lousy parent.

[DebJ]

63. Have you raised a child with incredible challenges? I have. I

am all for working mothers; I am one myself. But I agree: the needs of the child should come first.

[Captain Hilts]

70. She's got a husband. She's been called to duty just as he has been in the past.

His turn to stay home with the kids. Being offered Vice - Prez is a big deal.

[DebJ]

72. As a single parent with one child with special needs, and one

child without special needs, I can tell you that one parent for two kids in this situation is not enough. The child without needs gets burned because of the extreme needs of the other child. To have five children and only one parent who can really contribute.....I feel sorry for the kids. Though, of course, even more than that, I feel sorry for all of us. McCain winning is scary enough. The thought of someone becoming President who has not even thought about Iraq is terrifying.

[sam kane]

73. 20 million in debt--her legacy as mayor

Do we want this kind of governance on the federal level?