Why is nobody in the media bring up the creationist stuff...

[WCGreen]

I mean come on, that is anti-science at it's core and was one of Obama's pledges in his acceptance speech.

Why is that off limits to the national media?

[mwb970]

1. Well, it hasn't been 24 hours yet.

You have to make some allowance for inertia. Hopefully it will all come out once the machinery starts working.

[WCGreen]

5. This are you your baby's momma momma is driving me nuts...

Sounds like a Springer Show...

But htis creationist stuff is just too wacky.

[mwb970]

7. An interestingly incoherent post.

What does "This are you your baby's momma momma is driving me nuts..." mean, anyway? It seems like gibberish. Is it a code?

[WCGreen]

18. About all that it was really her child's baby...

And not her's.

That will come out without all the speculation and photos.

I am saying it is dangerous to let the creationists get a free pass to power.

[Indi Guy]

2. Palin want's creationism taught in schools...

E=MC2 divided by opinion...

[Indi Guy]

8. Sorry - I gotta reaffirm my point here.... n/t

[mwb970]

10. You edited your short post but left "wants" misspelled?

:shrug:

[KitchenWitch]

62. And yet you still understood what IndiGuy said...

:shrug:

Do we really need to pick at each other like this?

[Kutjara]

3. Because they don't want to offend the...

...huge proportion of their audience who believe in creationist hooey? :shrug:

Anyway, science is "geeky" and "nerdy" and "boring." Not the kind of stuff the newsmodels want to be bothered with, while they're busy "entertaining" us.

[depakid]

4. It's boring

[WCGreen]

9. It's ridiculous...

In this modern age to actually believe in the literal interpretation of a book that is has been translated hundreds, if not thousands of times is sheer idiocy.

But I guess since they can't quite get their hands around (perhaps because they are locked together in prayer) allegory, they want to shove all that mumbo jumbo down other peoples throats.

[Oak2004]

64. What is extra fun about biblical literalism is that it doesn't actually exist

There have been more than a few studies that show that fundamentalists are neither literalists nor do they "preach the whole bible". The rely on a narrow selection of passages, and give a very definite interpretation to those passages.

[Indi Guy]

12. Wake up man! Creationists are already in power, and the deny rights to women...

Many pharmacists refuse to give women birth control (after being raped).

How would you like your wife or daughter to have to deal with that?

[depakid]

15. Boring

Give us a story- plug it into a larger narrative.

[WCGreen]

20. Well, see how boring it is when your children are denied rational

thougth in school.

[depakid]

28. That's not a story

This is a story:

A couple whose church preaches against medical care are facing criminal charges after their young daughter died of an infection that authorities said went untreated.

Carl and Raylene Worthington were indicted Friday on charges of manslaughter and criminal mistreatment in the death of their 15-month-old daughter Ava. They belong to the Followers of Christ Church, whose members have a history of treating gravely ill children only with prayer.

Ava died March 2 of bronchial pneumonia and a blood infection. The state medical examiner's office has said she could have been treated with antibiotics.

Dr. Christopher Young, a deputy state medical examiner, said the child's breathing was further hampered by a benign cyst on her neck that had never been medically addressed, The Oregonian reported.

Laws passed in the 1990s struck down legal shields for faith-healing parents after the deaths of several children whose parents were members of the fundamentalist church.

Since those laws took effect in 1999, "We haven't seen any cases of significant medical neglect ... until now," said child abuse Detective Jeff Green of the Clackamas County Sheriff's Office.

More: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/28/parents-indicted-in-faith_n_93903.html

AND This is a story

After the assault of rape, a victim often encounters this advice: Contact a trustworthy person, don't shower and see a doctor immediately.

Another practice, however, might soon become more commonly prescribed--carefully consider the hospital in which to seek medical attention--after a survey released in December found that many Roman Catholic hospitals deny emergency contraception to rape victims.

The survey, commissioned by Catholics for a Free Choice, a Washington-based advocacy group that promotes issues of gender equality and reproductive health, found that only 28 percent of Catholic hospitals in 47 states and the District of Columbia would provide emergency contraception, also known as the "morning-after pill" or EC, to rape victims. Fifty-five percent of Catholic hospitals wouldn't dispense emergency contraception under any circumstances. The survey found that most of the hospitals that do provide emergency contraception set up barriers, such as pregnancy tests and police reports, before administering the drug.

Frances Kissling, president of the organization, asserts that when the law doesn't otherwise restrict it, the Catholic Church is using its hospitals to put its teachings into practice.

http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/1209

On another level, there are also up close and personal stories.

Barney Smith - Smith Barney kinds of stories.

[WCGreen]

29. You don't think they are connected....

[depakid]

30. Did I say that?

[WCGreen]

33. I'm sorry, but that is what I got from the way you posted.

[kwolf68]

6. It's not as easy

I totally agree, but you can't go after this without being perceived as being anti-religious.

While I believe Biden/Obama need to hit her for her radical hostility to science you have to tread lightly on this issue, because we can't have any 'war on Christians', and that's what any attack on this issue will be played into.

That said, we have to challenge her on science, because at every turn of the worm she uses "sound science" to advance her dogmatic bullshit.

Further, which side will be swayed anyway? Those of us with science backgrounds are not voting for McCain/Palin and the flat earthers are not voting for us anyway. So it's really an issue (though HUGELY important in my eyes) that seems to be more minutia.

[WCGreen]

11. It goes to judgement....

It's one thing to be a radical fundamentalist in the privacy of the Alaska State House. It's quite another in the Oval Office where you have to make judgments about scientific issues often.

This what would Jesus do or is it in Leviticus is crazy talk from deluded people.

It's all allegory and they can't get behind thought that requires thought. Literally.

[kwolf68]

13. True but

I worry that in polls I see a majority of Americans believe (or are starting to believe in) creationism.

We saw Bush/Cheneys hostility to science and no one on our side once challenged it. I believe they didnt because there is no easy way to have that particular debate.

I just don't know how many voters we sway with this issue without the M$M using it to prove Democrats are godless heathens who wear inverted crosses on our lapels.

The Republicans are on a slow march to do two things:

Overturn Roe
Remove Evolution

YES ABSOLUTELY we must protect science, but how we go about that is the question I have.

[WCGreen]

17. If we aren't going to stand up now...

When is the time?

When they start rounding up the non-believers and forcing them into re-education camps.

Remember one thing: the masses have been persuaded time and time and time and time again to degenerate into brutality in the name of Jesus.

Don't ever think it can't happen here. It almost did. If the war in Iraq had been successful, do you honestly think we would even be having an election now?

[kwolf68]

21. I agree

I don't think we are as far off on this as one may think.

I agree we must challenge her and expose her as a dogmatic charlatan. Trouble is how to do that? You can't mock her 'faith', because no matter what that will not play well in the media.

Obama is appealing to religious people, Christians specifically. He's appealing them on other grounds of morality...peace, feeding the hungry, being good stewards of the planet, etc....if we go bashing and slashing at her religious views (as insane as they are) then Obama loses every ounce of political capital with some of these people he has and/or is building.

Im not talking about the Dobson crew...they don't count. I'm talking about the religious and moderately political. Those who are looking at other issues to move to our side. The last thing we want to do is mock them in any way.

My wife had an interesting point (she's kinda a religious Liberal) when she said we need to explain to people that science and our ability to exploit science for the greater good IS a gift from God.

Disclaimer: I am a moral agnostic and don't believe in God, but am trying to come up with a way to work with the sane thinking members of the 'believer community'.

[WCGreen]

22. moderate Christians understand that the Bible is Allegorical by definition.

That is why there are so many interpretations of what the good book actually states.

Anyway, must I reminded you of the moderate muslims who are constantly forced to defend their religious beliefs simply because a small minority believe in a literal interpretation of the Koran.

Someone has to stand up to all of these people and come down firmly on the side of the 21st century.

[kwolf68]

26. I agree, but how

Do you propose Biden and Obama stand up to her and how many votes will it get us.

Trust me...I agree with you that we must get into this fight. While we are sitting back, we're allowing these fundies to march our nation right back to the Dark Ages. Yes, the time is to engage...but Im not so sure how much engaging on this issue our candidates can do.

[WCGreen]

32. There is a place for religion and there is a place for science.

We must find a balance between the two. God did not give us free will to blindly follow the words written thousands of years ago. We should look to those words for inspiration but Jesus meant for us to live in this world, in this time, to use our judgment, to make decisions and then suffer or enjoy the consequence in the sweet here after. Just as it isn't up to me to judge you your religious beliefs, your faith and how you practice that faith, it is not up to you to judge me and the faith which I use to guide my life.

There is a place to teach the Creation and that is in your home, your church or your prayer group. But that faith should not be taught a science in the public school system, America allows you to believe what you wish. But it also allows me to disagree with your belief. That is what makes our country great.

[kwolf68]

34. faith should not be taught a science in the public school system

I absolutely agree with that.

And I suppose with the march to the far-right the Repukes have been doing and their war on science, this discussion was bound to happen.

Again, even if this topic is broached in the debate...the thumpers will jizz over the idea of Creation mythology being taught in school, but who were they voting for anyway?

And those like you and me who believe it to be a SERIOUS issue are voting for who?

What I guess I am saying is I believe it's a very important issue, but I don't believe it's a top shelf issue that can win voters for the Dems. What it can and will be used for by Faux News and others is another example of how the Dems are waging a war on Christians. To that end, Biden (since he's the Veep going against Palin) will have to be very careful. Hell, even if he is careful, they'll spin his words to make him look like a bible burner.

[WCGreen]

36. What I am saying is people have been careful all the way to oblivion

too many times when facing religious bigotry.

[TheKentuckian]

14. No reason to belittle her

treat her with every dignity, show how she is "Lady Bush", and wait for her to expose her own depth of knowledge.

[kwolf68]

16. Sometimes

Depth of knowledge is perceived as expanse intelligence when you have a capable propaganda ministry carrying your water.

I agree with the OP that any hostility to science must be met forceful and with skill. My only trouble is how.

Without science our civilization would have not advanced one damn iota. Had we left humanity up to the religious we'd still be stuck in the Dark Ages.

[WCGreen]

19. I'm surely not belittling her...

She has embraced a dangerous thought process that has led too many others before her to create unspeakable evil all in the name of "god".

[RagAss]

31. No you're not...but I am...

Anyone who believes the world is 6,000 years old is not only a nutjob believer of fairy tales, but is just plain stupid.....especially someone like Palin who sees the geography of Alaska on a daily basis....

As for being forced into getting on my knees to worship someone else's fairy tale god ?....Let's just say some of us will gladly go to our graves before that happens.....a Patriot by the name of Ethan Allen taught us that lesson many years ago !!!!!

[kristopher]

23. Remember Terry Schiavo?

And the negative reaction to the idea of xtian intrusion into peoples lives?

Where do you suppose Palin stands on that? I think the bulk of the public has had enough with shrub to last them a lifetime. It is possible that McCain and his people have misread the mood of the nation.

[WCGreen]

24. One would hope...

And yet even in this thread we have people claiming that we shouldn't offend or rile up so-called Christians.

Listen, I have been offended far too often. I have thick skin, it turns out. But I can't stomach anymore fundamentalists whether here, in Jakarta, in Baghdad or Riyadh.

It's time we embrace the 21st century and stop kowtowing to those stuck in 1000 BC.

[greguganus]

25. Ever thought about writing drama plays? n/t

[WCGreen]

27. History is littered with people brutalized and murdered in the name of

god.

I choose to not take lightly the threat of anti-rational thought gaining power in this country. We came close, too close. The only thing that brought rationality back to public discourse was the catastrophic failure of the Iraqi adventure. And still, not one of those criminals is even facing an uncomfortable retirement. No one wants to go there. It's all in the past. It won't happen again.

I say Bull Shit.

[stanwyck]

35. This is a serious question. If Palin is an evangelical Christian

does she believe her judgment must submit to the head of the household? Her husband? Does she believe that men have authority over women? I'm not being snarky here. I'm not familiar with evangelical beliefs since I was raised in the Presbyterian Church. As an adult, I have not attended church. I'm just curious if her faith requires that she submit to the authority of her husband and if that means he could not only advise her on policy, but dictate policy.

[Igel]

58. It depends.

You can view that belief as a kind of black-and-white, cookie-cutter doctrine. I've known people, mostly men, that wanted it that way. A few women like the black-and-white approach; most of them are weak and afraid of their shadows.

Or you can view it in a more complicated way. That's how it's usually taken by those I've known who believed in it, even the men. They point to Proverbs, where it discusses a "virtuous woman": She has her own business and runs it independently; she maintains her household, and uses her skills to benefit herself and her family, as well as others.

"Headship" is a transitive relation for most of these people. Women are subject to their husbands; this doesn't mean they're controlled, automata, puppets. Because men are in subjection to Jesus, and they'll be damned if they're going to slavishly follow exactly what's taught.

How it works out requires facts, not deduction. You can't infer much from what's given. There are too many unknowns; the best you get is suspicion, which may or may not be factual. Making it into a cartoon does everybody a disservice, esp. the truth. I'm curious as to her views on the matter--if she actively accepts it or applies it. (Remember Obama--sat in Wright's congregation for 20 years and obviously didn't accept large portions of his mentor's teachings? Ah, that only works for Obama, I guess. Or maybe not. Run dissing her church, and you just may have Obama quoted in RNC ads to dispute DNC ads. Wouldn't *that* be a hoot?)

There's a flip side to "headship", and that's "servanthood". Jesus gave his life for his church, and allows it to do things that he disagrees with so it will learn. This involves independence in many ways. Men are to be the same way, under this view: Women have considerable independence, they get to make their own decisions, they have their own areas of expertise. Now, how traditional is Palin in this? Well, headship also dictates that women don't teach men in religious things; 17-18% of Palin's church's are women. Not *entirely* iron-clad traditional, and it should give pause; but it seems to be fairly conservative, nonetheless.

Most women that go with "headship" also condition it on "servanthood"; one without the other is a recipe for disaster, and women, more than men, are usually wise enough to see this.

[tomg]

37. I don't think her anti-creationism

is off limits. Seriously, Sarah Palin is, as a candidate, like an incredibly messy room that is such a diaster you really don't know where to begin. In fact, I would give this a few days. She is such a disaster that I am afraid that - as a candidate - she won't make it through the Republican Convention.

[pdxmom]

38. It certainly may go there, but it won't come from the Obama camp. The

very second this comes up, then Rev. Wright moves back into the spotlight.

That said, I think that the electorate should be made aware, because this is a judgment issue.

[WCGreen]

41. Notice I said Media....

They tip-toe around these kinds of issues and so add gravitas to them.

[pdxmom]

49. I understand what you were saying, and I guess I started my post in the middle

of my thought process. The media has proven itself to be lazy and seldom do any independent reporting on their own. They wait for the campaigns to say something and then jump on it, if it suits their storyline.

I don't see the media coming out with this on their own. It will take something coming out from elsewhere. And I do think that if it becomes a storyline, it will be "balanced" by the media with Wright.

[Feminists4Theocracy]

39. I believe that the world is 6,000 years old, but don't criticise me...

I'm a feminist, proud as can be!

[WCGreen]

40. Good for you....

But don't criticise me for not believing as you do...

[Feminists4Theocracy]

42. You really think I'm serious?

Read my signature and my username...If I were stupid enough to share Palin's beliefs, I would be Orwellian in my rhetoric as opposed to condescending.

[WCGreen]

43. I can't tell...

I've been up all night. Subtle discussion is not my forte when running on empty...

O8)

[Quantess]

63. Feminists4Theocracy got a tombstone.

[GoesTo11]

44. Let's just teach creationism in schools

It's not like with NCLB students are learning anything anyway, just right answers to the test makers questions. At least it could be fun. Lions and elephants and flying squirrels and meerkats all on that one little ark! In fact, we ought to continue down this path in the name of science. We're engaged in an interesting cultural experiment. What happens if a country that has it all decides to throw logic and science out the window for a generation? Does it do better or worse? If we find out that it does worse, that would be evidence that science and logic do work. Of course, this would only be convincing to those on one side of the debate.

[kwolf68]

45. Hahah

Yea good one.

[WCGreen]

47. They made a movie Idiocracy....

Joe Bauers, an Army librarian, is judged to be absolutely average in every regard, has no relatives, has no future, so he's chosen to be one of the two test subjects in a top-secret hibernation program. He and hooker Rita were to awaken in one year, but things go wrong and they wake up instead in 2505. By this time, stupid people have outbred intelligent people; the world is (barely) run by morons--and Joe and Rita are the smartest people in America

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/plotsummary

[GoesTo11]

48. REQUIRED VIEWING. Fox intentionally sandbagged this.

Fox released the movie Idiocracy (Mike Judge of Beavis & Butthead fame made it). It was released at 6 rural theaters for one week (or less) because the contract required it to be released. It is not just about the world being run by morons, it makes many very specific stabs at exactly the way corporations take over government and use government to brainwash citizens into being consumer slaves who vote for more of the same. So many perfect details that are enough to make you laugh or cry.

Get it on video before it disappears.

[WCGreen]

52. I saw it on cable...

It was funny, not a great movie, but funny and with a message...

[Exilednight]

46. They are, you just have to listen to the right media outlets. n/t

[chapel hill dem]

50. The media may be giving her a pass so they can give Obama a pass on Rev. Wright.

Taking religion off of the table benefits us more than them. I imagine the RNC has dozens of commercials ready to roll that mock Rev. Wright and focus on Obama's early childhood in Indonesia.

IMHO

[flamingdem]

66. ........bingo nt

[PVnRT]

51. Because that would "offend" the religious crowd

And we have to make sure we walk on eggshells around them. You know how long they've been oppressed by the atheist tyranny in the U.S.

[WCGreen]

53. There is no difference between fundamentalist Christians and

Fundamentalist Muslims.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

54. K&R

Anti-science is right...

It should never be off-limits.

Well said...

[NoodleyAppendage]

55. Because they are scared of XTIAN FASCISTS. Any appeal to reason would bring on ad boycotts. n/t

J

[Martinucho]

56. Attacking her Creationist views wouldn't help us

Because sadly, most Americans have a favorable view of the Creationist nonsense. In a 2006 Gallup poll, 66% of Americans said it's definitely or probably true that "God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/21814/Evolution-Creationism-Intelligent-Design.aspx

[Heather MC]

57. Because it's her Religious belief, and not that they got to drag Obama's Pastor and Religion through

the dirt
Religion has become "off limits"
but they are still free to bring up REV. Wright! Who IMO although very Flamboyant never lied

[WCGreen]

60. I am talking about the Media, not us, bringing it up...

But this is something we have to address sooner rather than later. We can't let them get away with the dumbing down of America. I know a lot of very religious people and not one of them believe that the earth was created 6,000 years ago. Not one. If we all remain silent, if we let them define what it is to be a person of faith, then we are headed for political Armageddon.

[Starry Messenger]

59. Because some religious have been allowed to define fact/science as hatred.

So whenever we try to bring this up we get defined as bigots. So groundwork must be laid first. I hope this does get some play in the press. But look how little outrage was expressed when nearly all of the gop candidates in the primary debates raised their hands when asked if they believed in the bible version of creation.

MPK

[CaliforniaPeggy]

61. Kick!

:kick:

[KitchenWitch]

65. Because, quite frankly, ratings rule everything.

And the people that own the corporate media do not want to get mired in Creationism versus Evolution. They would rather hammer away at Briney Spears, Paris Hilton, and missing white girls.

[Zomby Woof]

67. Today's front page of the L.A Times mentions it

It has the largest circulation of any U.S. paper, including the NYT.

Just below the headline about her, the sub-headline in slightly smaller font mentions she is a creationist.

There were already two letters to the editor about her printed today, and both negative - one from a resident of Anchorage.

[WCGreen]

68. Good....

It needs to be pointed out...

And then let the chips fall where they may...

[progressivebydesign]

69. They haven't had time to do everything yet.. she is a FOUNTAIN of problems!!

My god... killing wolves, hating polar bears, big oil's sweetie, creationism, anti-choice, anti-gay, left her little town with massive debt, nra lifetime member, all those articles and recordings of her being a "baracudda", her ranting letter to the paper when she was a council woman, and so on and so on. Oh.. and her ethics violation investigation. McDopey has just given the reporters a reason to live again -- all that fun research.

Can you believe they chose her after McCranky met her ONCE a year ago???

[progressivebydesign]

70. Oh, and the Southern Baptist Convention folks are the ones that pushed her to the GOP. n/t

[vaberella]

71. Dude one at a time. We'll use everything just one at a time. We're focusing on what does a VP do..

n/t