I can’t believe anyone could honestly think “grandma-gate” is not a huge deal.

[Nine]

If this story is true, that’s it. We’ve won. There is no way for McCain to recover from this. It makes his campaign look completely incompetent. The only way I see them recovering from this is to replace McCain (which isn’t entirely implausible, and I do have to wonder if they were setting McCain up for this, but that’s a topic for another post).

We don’t have to run ads on this. We don’t have to explain it to the public like healthcare or energy policy. All we need is for the facts to come out. And the biggest, strangest fact of all is Palin’s claim that her water broke at 4 am (a month early and knowing her baby would have special needs and probably need to be in a NICU after birth) and that she waited around 8 or so hours to give a luncheon speech, then went to an airport, boarded a plane, didn’t notify airline personnel of her condition, didn’t tell her doctor she was planning to fly (but was otherwise in communication with her doctor), and flew the 10, 12 or whatever hours from Texas to Seattle to Alaska so that she could give birth in her local hospital. Because she wanted to be with a doctor who knew her medical history. And because she has so much state pride.

This is the most ridiculous story I’ve ever heard. Who could honestly say they believe it? If this is actually true, it’s horrendous. This isn’t “should I have a sip of wine in my third trimester?”. This is Britney Spears territory. What would we think if we heard that Paris Hilton or some other celebrity had done this? And incidentally, don’t you believe the BS line some are trying to push that there is a difference between amniotic fluid leaking and water breaking and membranes rupturing. They’re all the same thing. You can have a slow leak or a fast leak, but they’re all the same thing, and if you dispute that, produce some medical reference that makes the distinction.

If Palin really was pregnant but made this story up out of whole cloth to look “tough”, she’s a nutjob. And that needs to come out too. Hillary got raked over the coals for her Bosnia thing, which I truly believe was just a faulty memory, but this was a deliberate lie with no time lapse. And if this special needs child really is hers and she’s cheapening his birth by turning it into a publicity stunt for herself, she should be ashamed.

But I honestly don’t believe she could be that reckless or that this is just a self-aggrandizing lie. I honestly think it’s the daughter’s baby. And I don’t feel a bit guilty or sorry for the teenager that this is going to be exposed. This isn’t the 1950s. This is not going to ruin the daughter’s life. No one even blinks an eye at this stuff anymore. I’d feel much sorrier for her knowing she was made to pretend her son is her brother. So you’re not going to make me shed any tears on that count.

And do you know why else this is important? National security. Don’t laugh. Security checks always including making sure the person doesn’t have any dark secrets that can be used as blackmail against them. If she became vice president with this hanging over her, it would be a terrible security risk.

And of course there is the whole matter of insurance fraud. And the hypocrisy of her political positions. And the apparent effectiveness of policies like abstinence education that she supports.

Obama doesn’t have to do a thing here. And shouldn’t. This is a job for The Internets. There’s not even really anything to dig up. It’s public knowledge that she announced late and never really “showed.” It’s public knowledge that she claims she made that flight. The daughter’s 5-month or so absence from school is not exactly a private fact; everyone at her school would know. All we have to do is keep the story alive (and keep wrong information from spreading) until it gains traction. If people can discuss the circumstances of Suri Cruise’s birth, they can talk about this. Let people hear about that flight and draw their own conclusions – recklessness, self-aggrandizement, or cover-up.

We didn’t create this, we didn’t dig it up from oblivion. But to suggest that we should look the other way and pretend this is all on the up and up is just criminal. There are people dying in Iraq. There are people struggling in poverty. And we should help the Republicans cover up this Desperate Housewives storyline? We should not take advantage of their boneheaded play and go for the win? As Bartcop would say, you must be a Democrat.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lifetimedem]

2. I can not believe this would not have been vetted

But i agree with you and I do not believe her story at all

5th babies come quick

[annabanana]

11. Actually I don't think she was vetted at all... I think they got panicky

and figured (in the manner of Repugs everywhere). . "we can fix it in Marketing".

[Liberal_in_LA]

39. some news articles are saying she was 'under vetted' or non vetted.

[demgrrrll]

53. That's what I think. I just read how George Bush was chosen

to be Reagan's running mate. Apparently someone had Bush's number but did not have Rumsfeld's number, I mean it was that lackadaisical. We often attribute some master Machiavellian plan to some of their just plain stupid decisions.

[JDPriestly]

15. This could easily have escaped the attention of Republican vetters.

My question? How tall is Palin? How much does she weigh when not pregnant?

Look at pictures of her in the months preceding the birth.

I was 5'2" and weighed normally maybe 125 pounds. By the time I was in my 7th month, I looked humongous, huge, enormous. This was true even with my second pregnancy although I barely gained the weight I was supposed to gain. My babies were not extremely large, just a little over 7 pounds. (I know the weight in kilos.)

If Sarah Palin is tall, maybe she could hide a pregnancy. But if she was short, I don't think it would be possible.

[monmouth]

25. You can say that, I was having my third and just about made it to the hosp.

I wouldn't go the daddy route, hell, she's a cute girl with a boyfriend. There's not much to do in Alaska. Keep in mind those rumors about Edwards? We all scoffed and poo-pooed? Well, ya know....

[FrenchieCat]

3. The "HUGE DEAL" is the fact that McCain has BAD Judgment......

That the story.

Not what you are talking about.

I'm not interested in getting Palin off the ticket. Let her stay there,
so we can tell McCain what we think of his fucked up "Me First, Country Last" strategy
on November 4th, at the ballot box.

What you are talking about is personal, and personally, I don't give a shit about proving
what you are talking about.

What I do care about is my country, and the fact that John McCain made his choice in order
to pander to Woman in the cheapest way imaginable.

John McCain pandering without shame while gambling with out lives, 300 million people!
That's the Huge Scandal!

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

7. His piss-poor judgement on Palin makes it clear that he is unfit for command

[dubeskin]

4. K&R'd to keep it alive

Well written, and certainly needs to be spread.

[RadicalTexan]

5. I'd like to see a timeline, with links .............nt

[tallahasseedem]

6. As a mother of two...

this story concerned me as well. I seriously think that a lot of women are going to have a big problem with this.

[Hokie]

8. I will save all the DU Nanny's a post.

Bad bad bad bad. You are not allowed to speculate about the obvious here.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

9. You just have to mention the indicted Ted Stevens who endorsed this lady!

[JVS]

10. k&r

[hisownpetard]

12. Ya think someone who would like about that might lie about more important issues, like...

WMD?

You bet your crummy caribou she would!

[helderheid]

13. honestly, why this doesn't already have 100 recs is beyond me.

One more

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6838002

[Bucky]

14. You've constucted this bizarre story in your head, but have zero evidence to support it.

It's crazy. She delivered at a professional hospital in a small city. You just can't pull off a switcheroo like that. You're fucking nuts to let yourself believe something so preposterous.

[tammywammy]

19. No logic allowed!

[Nine]

22. I think a governor could.

She would have a very secluded experience based on that fact alone. And of course HIPAA makes it illegal for anyone to divulge her or her daughter's information. But the flight from TX to AK is a fact. She was either never pregnant, terribly reckless, or an bald-faced liar.

[JVS]

24. Whose story is really crazy, that the head of a sparsely populated state might be able to...

fake a pregnancy while sending her daughter to a secluded "sick room" for several months, or the wacky adventures of the governor giving a premature birth crossing from the northern to the southern ends of our continent while her daughter spend almost half a year sick at home with mono?

[Pathwalker]

30. She's a real life "Desperate Housewife" is this is true.

She'd be Sarah "Bree" Palin. Talk about life imitating art. Save it for October - surprise!

[JVS]

32. I don't watch that show, but it is imitating life.

This used to be a common way to deal with teen pregnancy

[Pathwalker]

35. It was a theme for a character for an entire season.

Daughter got pregnant, Mom and new husband faked a pregnancy for months - went to much greater effort than Sarah Palin, yet the truth still came out. If true, she did a rather shoddy job of faking it. and if it's true, I hope the truth comes out, because this is the 21st century, and we should stop hiding truths like this.

[stevietheman]

64. Yeah, in the 1950s. n/t

n/t

[enough already]

28. There's nothing 'nuts' about it

The whole story and timeline smells. We need to stay on this one and get the sleaze exposed.

[anigbrowl]

33. Of course you can.

My 2nd cousin pulled off exactly that switcheroo for 20 years. If these allegations were true, medical professionals would know but, but would face huge civil liability for revealing private patient data and would never be able to work in the medical field again.

Is it true? I really don't know; not enough evidence. Is it possible? Absolutely.

[zeemike]

55. Zero evidence?

How could you be so uninformed.
What evidence do you want...a DNA test?

[yardwork]

59. It happens all the time. People pull this kind of "switcheroo" all the time.

Hospital personnel go along with it. It's not as common now in most states, but if the governor of Alaska said that this was the way it was gonna be, then that's the way it was gonna be.

Not that many people would have to know. Women deliver in private rooms now, with their mothers in attendance.

[phillysuse]

16. Medical records - we haven't seen McCain's medical records

and he suffers from forgetfulness. Biden needs to release his medical records and he and Obama should call for McCain and Palin to release their records including all hospitalizations. That should include her hospitalization for her delivery. In addition, there should be records of ultrasounds and maybe an amniocentesis as well as outpatient obstetric visits.

[Hokie]

17. K&R, well written

I have been criticized for saying this since since last night. This story is major even if none of the darker speculation is true. She is either a liar, an idiot or worse. One of these is true.

[Fearless]

18. k&r!

:kick:

[napi21]

20. I too find that story VERY hard to believe! With my 1st son, my water broke

way before he was born, BUT I SWEAR, I was in NO condition to fly anywhere! I wwould have freaked out the ALL the people on the plane!

With my 2nd son, he was born 2 hours after my water broke.

Now, I only have 2 kids, but it soesn't make sense to me that a 5th child would take that long. NOR does it make sense that ANY mother would risk her child's life, ESPECIALLY since it was already known there would be problems!!!!!

It's the only, but very true caution. If somethng doesn't make sense, it probably not true.

[CK_John]

21. Just how would this be proved and why is it anyones business? n/t

[fortyfeetunder]

23. Yes, let the Internets nature take its course.

Just like Obama wearing the African garb...etc...

[cliffordu]

26. Yawn.

Her dominionist brainwashing is more problematic...

[glitch]

40. It's the practical result of the ideology, they go together. nt

[eallen]

60. No. Many grandmothers with no religion have raised a grandchild as their own.

The folks pushing this story need to be careful. Many a woman has raised as her own a child borne to a daughter still too young for motherhood. That has nothing to do with religion, and many folks who aren't religious will view it as both a practical and private decision.

:hippie:

[glitch]

63. Sorry, No. The ideology is shame-based, and so is a decision to force your child to lie about your

grandchild. Her religion is just another manifestation of the shame.

I am not pushing this story at all, I actually think the child is probably her own. But I do think her ideology is fair game, especially since her ideology is aggressively attacking our form of government.

[SoCalDem]

71. Did they walk around pretending to be pregnant while the daughter

was locked away??

Nope.. they just took the baby in, and the baby grew up calliing them Mom..

[knitter4democracy]

27. The story has to be false. If it's not, she's a terrible mother.

I say that in all honesty. When your water breaks (doesn't matter if it's a leak or a gush), you have 24 hours to get the baby out before the risk of death goes through the roof. A doctor friend of ours almost lost his wife and baby because of racist nurses in the ER who wouldn't believe her that her water broke. It's not something to mess around with ever.

If the doctor let her, she should lose her license for not meeting the standard of care like that. I don't say that lightly, either.

If the story is false, and the baby really is her daughter's, I truly feel sorry for that lovely girl and her baby. What a messed up family.

[rug]

29. If.

[chat_noir]

31. If Karl Rove were working against McCain, like he did in 2000, he would put out this information:

This former beauty queen is the perpetrator of a sham in that she is pretending that the Down Syndrome baby belongs to her when the real truth is that the baby is the product of an incestuous relationship between her husband and her eldest daughter. They faked that the daughter was sick at home for several months with mono, and she told her staff that she had been 7 months pregnant, but they never noticed. The ex-brother-in-law policeman knew of this and that was why Palin had went after him, to try to apply enough pressure to shut him up. This will all come out in the investigation that is ongoing with the Alaskan legislature and McCain will be forced to drop her from the ticket.


(copied from another blog)

[DefenseLawyer]

34. My wife belongs to a website

that has a message board where they discuss makeup and fashion and what not. Definitely not political. The gossip about the curious nature of her pregnancy had already made it there. Obviously people find it interesting. Just as obviously the campaign won't touch it with a ten foot pole, but as far as gossip on the internets goes, I am not seeing the harm.

[krabigirl]

57. I think I may be a member of the same site. Anyway, yeah, they are talking about it there.

It's definitely in the mainstream.

[K Gardner]

36. I agree 100% with every single point you made. Very well-written ! "This is a job for

the Internets!" LOL. And so it is :-)

[Nine]

38. Thank you :) (nt)

[applegrove]

37. You desperately want there to be a scandal that will make her go away... when

in fact her inexperience is what we need to beat McCain. Rumours & such reek of how the GOP creeps would like us to behave. They'd love to paint Palin as a victim of smears. That way they can smear Obama & Biden and get away with it.

[Nine]

41. I don't desperately want there to be a scandal. I simply believe there IS one.

And it will come out sooner or later, with or without DU. But I'd rather it come out sooner. The airplane story is simply too bizarre for a rational person to believe. If she didn't fake her pregnancy, she was Britney Spears-level reckless or she told a huge whopper to make herself sound impressive and exploited the birth of her disabled son for publicity purposes. Which do you think it is?

[SoCalDem]

72. Okay then.. You do the other, and we'll do this

and either way..or with both..maybe we can get Mrs Moose to go back to Alaska..

[rndmprsn]

42. This BOMB, Hurricane Gustav, 50,000 Anti-War Protestors, Ron Paul Counter-Convention...

This ladies an gentlemen is a PERFECT STORM, no pun intended and COULD TURN OUT TO BE THE GOP'S 1968!

[eridani]

43. It isn't. Someone has already posted a link quoting someone who saw her pregnant n/t

[Nine]

45. Oh, well then that proves it, doesn't it?

:crazy:

[eridani]

49. About as much as speculation to the contrary has been proven n/t

[cameozalaznick]

48. Yeah, and I know a guy who knows a guy

who's girlfriend said her hairdresser also said so.

[UnseenUndergrad]

44. Whichever version is true, it reflects badly.

Choice A: Took incredible risks with a special-nneds child for the sake of nativist rhetoric: horribly irresponsible.

Choice B: Had normal labour, made plane story up to look "frontier-tough": horrible lier.

Choice C: Baby really is daughters, mother did the old 50's switcheroo: it's so... 50's!

As to do with the last choice, there's some doubt in my mind whether it really is a case of Down Syndrome. Yes, young mothers have been known to develop it, and I'm not even touching the incest garbage, but there has been some suggestion on this site that the babies features aren't indicative of triopsy, but of noticable Inuit roots. So what would it be, really, if Bristol's boyfriend or fling is/was ethnic Alaskan?

Of course, we must tread this carefully.. ah, hell, just leave it to the Enquirer. They get paid for this Shit!

[silverweb]

46. Exactly.

And option #3 also brings up the possibility of insurance fraud, which would be very, VERY bad for the Gov.

As you say, let's leave it for the Enquirer (and the insurance investigators!).

Welcome to DU, UnseenUndergrad! :hi:

[obamican]

47. PUUUUUHLLLLLLLEASEEEEEEEE!

It's Babygate not grandmagate.

[barack the house]

50. I would love to see a you tube of this don't know the full details. We could do a few to get noticed

[SoCalDem]

73. I have posted a video..several in fact

people ARE making this thing go viral:)

[TwilightGardener]

51. Rec'd.

[akangel2008]

52. As an Alaskan

We need to get this story into the main stream news! Up here there are so many questions already. Most are ignored as things are kept quiet in state but MSNBC or CNN; that's the ticket! Call & email because this story needs to be told.

[SoCalDem]

74. You Alaskans need to drive this bus a little

You know her best and maybe can get some kids the daughter went to class with, to come forward.. or many the guy Mrs Moose is persecuting could come forward..

[K8-EEE]

54. Also, if true: Was the daughter FORCED into this arrangement?

That would be relevant because of the nature of her "Feminists (LOL) For Life" connection, which has a rep for browbeating/bullying/forcing women to carry unwanted pregnancies.

Also, although teenage pregnancy is common, it is also hard to campaign on some of her crap like no sex ed in school and "abstinence only" if your underage daughter got pregnant. So that could be another reason for such a charade.

[Nine]

56. Just looked back at the comments from the original news story on the birth

http://community.adn.com/adn/adn_pubstory_382864?page=1

So people were talking back in April about how crazy it was for her to get on that plane after her water broke. This is not a reaction DUers created.

She either recklessly endangered her baby, was covering up her daughter's pregnancy, or made up an insane story to exploit the birth of her disabled son for political gain. Which is it?

[yardwork]

58. I agree with you on every point.

[seabeyond]

61. so right on, kick ass, exactly. n/t

[11 Bravo]

62. The vetting process consisted of Grandpa McSame asking her what her measurements are.

[Enrique]

65. are we this desperate?

do we really need this potential scandal that probably won't pan out?

My answer is no, not even close.

[LonelyLRLiberal]

66. Americans love a scandal, especially one involving sex, babies and celebrities.

The question I have is whether having this "issue" become a big "internets" discussion would help or hurt our election prospects. You would need someone to spin it in our favor, because it surely can be spun in several directions. Just look at the spin the Repukes are putting on Palin's "qualifications," with the most popular talking point being she has "executive" experience and our guys do not. I was listening to one GOP ass being interviewed today; she was asked the direct question of how Palin was best for the job in light of McCain's age and health issues, and they let her just dance around the question by repeating the "executive experience" bulls**t.

I posted about one of my bigoted, Republican sister's decision not to vote for McCain because of Palin (she would write in Ron Paul) yesterday. Today, I talked to another non-bigoted but still RW Republican sister today and asked her what she thought about Palin - she was already parroting the "more experience than Obama" "executive" BS.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Quixote1818]

68. If true it shows McCain is an "impulse buyer" the type to get talked into Amway

or any number of bad decisions, or to appoint just about anyone to any position. It shows him to be a real danger to our National Security and our countries welfare.

[Stand and Fight]

69. Interesting Links with Pictures....

I'm not saying one way or another, but I do think that the circumstances of her pregnancy and deliver are suspect:

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/archive/2008/08/30/bristol-palin-pregnancy-is-sarah-palin-s-baby-really-her-daughter-s.aspx

http://www.celebrity-babies.com/2008/04/alaskan-governo.html

http://alaskareport.com/news31/z49194_republican_convention.htm

http://progressivealaska.blogspot.com/2008/03/dillons-february-26-palin-pic.html



http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/339587.html

http://www.adn.com/photos/v-gallery/story/509850.html?/1521/gallery/509852-a509973-t3.html



http://www.adn.com/photos/v-gallery/story/509850.html?/1521/gallery/509852-a510600-t3.html



http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//080831/480/529a19dfc6774f308117d4be16d30c8d/



http://www.politicalbase.com/profile/jnail/blog/&blogId=3422

The above link is interesting, but is glaringly wrong on a final point -- unless it was altered -- in the fact that it says there was no mention of pregnancy when there was/is...

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/998402/vp_candidate_sarah_palin_pregnancy.html?cat=75

July 29, 2008:


April 2008:


SOURCE: http://todercan.com/

March 2008:


http://stupidcelebrities.net/2008/08/30/bristol-palin-pregnancy-is-vp-sarah-palins-5th-child-really-her-daughters-photos/

Here's a video on this page at the bottom of the post as well, go to about 3:44 for the start of the Palin segment...
http://stupidcelebrities.net/2008/08/30/bristol-palin-pregnancy-is-vp-sarah-palins-5th-child-really-her-daughters-photos/





In some of these pictures she looks pregnant and in some of them she does not. I think some of them are also from 2006. You decide.

[SoCalDem]

75. scarves, bulky jackets, padding?

Notice how she ALWAYS seems to have a jacket..and if I may so so, not very professional-looking jackets.. the others in the pic seem to be dressed normally :)

all part of the plan..

[invictus]

70. K&R

[JFKfanforever]

76. NEW PHOTO

Three-generation photo or two?  Only the ob-gyn knows for
sure...

[MirrorAshes]

77. Agreed. No need to push it--but to intentionally help kill it would be stupid.

It would also further enable republican hypocrisy at its worst.

Let the truth come out, whatever it may be.

[DeeDeeNY]

78. !