helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 09:44 AM
Original message |
Wesley Clark, no-show at first 2 debates of 2004 - why? |
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Wesley Clark is the ONLY candidate other than Al Sharpton to skip both the Des Moines Register and NPR debates. Why??
Even Joe Lieberman, who abandoned his Iowa campaign long ago, is showing up at both debates.
Is Wesley Clark scared of the Midwest?
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unfrigginreal
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Tue Jan-06-04 09:47 AM
Response to Original message |
1. It's supposed to make him seem above the others |
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after all he was a 4 star general, why should he have to answer questions along with a bunch of politicians?
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creativelcro
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Tue Jan-06-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
82. Because he will have to every freaking minute for the job he's running for |
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It shows that he knows he's toast. He's given up.
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Racenut20
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Tue Jan-06-04 09:48 AM
Response to Original message |
2. That inferance and question is so dumb I can't wait to see all the threads |
helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #2 |
3. So what would you say if George Bush were skipping debates? (n/t) |
SahaleArm
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Tue Jan-06-04 09:49 AM
Response to Original message |
4. Shaking at the thought of an NPR debate on a Tuesday afternoon... |
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Edited on Tue Jan-06-04 09:51 AM by SahaleArm
Don't know - maybe he's campaigning in New Hampshire. Got a link or a source to missing the NPR debate? Does he need to be in Iowa for a radio debate?
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
5. NPR this morning said all but Sharpton, Edwards and Clark are expected |
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Maybe Clark will change his mind at the last minute like with the New Hampshire debate if he fears skipping will be worse than showing up.
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SahaleArm
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Tue Jan-06-04 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #5 |
7. On a radio debate - Why can't that be done remotely? |
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If not I can't see any reason for him to travel to Iowa when he could be in NH campaigning.
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #7 |
8. I don't know - ask Clark |
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He is the one not showing up. Maybe they have offered the chance to not be there in person.
The reality is every other candidate except Sharpton has been at one of the two debates this year - Wesley Clark has not.
He is not the only candidate not seriously campaigning in Iowa - Joe Lieberman isn't either - so that doesn't hold water as a reason.
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SahaleArm
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Tue Jan-06-04 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #8 |
10. Why should he waste time in Iowa? |
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You haven't credibly answered that question.
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:00 AM
Original message |
Because a national candidate should run a national campaign... |
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Not simply run in the South and New Hampshire in a desperate attempt to stop one candidate.
Also, the debates give people across the country the opportunity to see candidates face to face. Wesley Clark is denying that opportunity in exchange for running a regionally based campaign.
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SahaleArm
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:03 AM
Response to Original message |
16. Iowa defines this? NH, SC, OK, AZ, NM, MI, TN, WI is national |
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Iowa does not define national.
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #16 |
19. The debates are nationally broadcast... |
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Assuming that since they take place in Iowa they are only about Iowa is absurd.
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SahaleArm
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #19 |
22. NPR 2-4 pm should be huge n/t |
HFishbine
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #22 |
24. I was looking forward to it |
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Especially since I had submitted a question for Clark.
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #22 |
25. Clark won't face questioning...that seems to be it (n/t) |
SahaleArm
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #25 |
30. That must be it - That's why he was on MTP and Hardball n/t |
helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #30 |
33. Clark won't face direct comments and questions from fellow candidates |
SahaleArm
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #33 |
36. Has he been to other debates? Yes. |
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Were they productive? No. Is it worth flying to Iowa for a radio debate? No.
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #36 |
38. Yes, Wesley Clark wants to be a calculated politician...and avoid |
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Situations that he doesn't like.
Yep, he's learning fast the wiles of the politician.
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Jack_Dawson
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Tue Jan-06-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #38 |
66. LOL - Is this all you guys have? |
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Clark is rising in the polls - deal with it.
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #66 |
69. Hmmm...has gained 1 or 2 points since October... |
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He needs to rise a bit faster.
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janx
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #5 |
18. Was he thinking about opting out of the NH debate also? |
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I hadn't heard anything about this and can't imagine he would do so.
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #18 |
27. He was going to skip the NH debate for a fundraiser in NY... |
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And at the last minute reconsidered.
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KittyWampus
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Tue Jan-06-04 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
50. That Fundraiser Had ALREADY RESCHEDULED BEFORE |
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Clark had already rescheduled once and then had to do it again.
Reality check- Clark has participated in other debates... this is possibly the most petty crap yet.
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elixir
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Tue Jan-06-04 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
63. Clark was scheduled to attend NH debate but the date was changed.. |
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When it was changed AGAIN, he moved his fundraiser to make the debate. Get your facts straight.
Also, why should Clark be attending the Iowa debates if he's not competing there? It would be nice but it's not necessary.
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grannylib
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Tue Jan-06-04 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
6. He was in New Hampshire; he got more coverage doing what he did |
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than if he were at the debate, which got pretty low viewer numbers
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #6 |
9. So stump speeches are better for voters than answering questions? |
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Sounds like Clark wants to control the environment instead of genuinely face the kind of questioning Howard Dean is.
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SahaleArm
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Tue Jan-06-04 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #9 |
12. What questioning? --- Open your records? No. n/t |
helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #12 |
14. The courts are working on that and those who read news know that... |
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George W. Bush was called a wimp when he didn't want to debate.
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SahaleArm
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
20. Courts are working on it while the AG of VT is working against it... |
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Not impressed with that response or the lame Bush analogy.
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Renew Deal
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
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and they will release them. Instead he is hiding behind his AG friend.
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SahaleArm
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #26 |
29. Dean won't have a leg to stand on against Bush, Cheney, and Enron... |
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Until he releases the records...
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #29 |
31. Change the topic when Clark looks bad... |
SahaleArm
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #31 |
32. No I posited the typical Lieberman to Dean Q&A - You responded n/t |
robbedvoter
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #14 |
34. Running out the clock on the records, uh? reminds me of sumptin' |
readmylips
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #9 |
13. Sounds like Clark is still doing the repig wool-over-your eyes... |
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ala boosh and ahnnold the pig.
I was born a democrat, cannot vote for half-ass republican like Clark.
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Lefta Dissenter
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Tue Jan-06-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #13 |
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there's a different candidate who reminds me more of ahnold. "I'll release my records after I'm elected... just not enough time now, no sireeeeeee, too busy campaigning!"
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #56 |
70. Lie after lie about the Vermont records... |
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It is in the hands of a judge now...deal with it, or lie about it. That's all you've got.
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KittyWampus
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Tue Jan-06-04 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #9 |
51. Stump Speeches? Clark Does About 5 Min. Stumping & Hours Answering Queries |
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Get some facts behind these increasingly shrill accusations, please.
Clark typically takes about 5 minutes to make an opening stump speech and takes the rest of the time answering questions.
This is obvious to anyone who has seen his Town Hall meetings broadcast repeatedly on Cspan.
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WhoCountsTheVotes
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #4 |
17. it doesn't enhance his credibility |
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as a Democrat to skip a bunch of debates, even the little tiny NPR Tuesday debates. His main weakness is his lack of any record actually fighting for Democratic values. This isn't helping.
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KittyWampus
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Tue Jan-06-04 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #17 |
52. He's Attended Several Debates Already |
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I'd say his newest Tax Policy shows his commitment to fighting for Democratic Values.
Too bad the NYTimes couldn't give his proposal its own column... they combined it in an article that also talked about Kerry's something or other...
The proposal is radical & progressive enough to deserve mention.
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Lefta Dissenter
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Tue Jan-06-04 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #17 |
57. two is a pretty tiny 'bunch' |
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and he had opted out of the televised debate because he had planned to be home for the birth of his first grandson. He had missed the birth of his own son when he was in Vietnam... Some people wouldn't know about that, though... too busy skiing.
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Dogfolks
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Tue Jan-06-04 09:58 AM
Response to Original message |
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He's forgone Iowa in order to concentrate his efforts in NH. He wants a decent 3rd or - hopefully - 2nd place there, and then it's off to the south, where he will do really well.
We should all thank our lucky stars that someone like The General wants to continue serving our country.
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #11 |
15. His service ends at the Vice Presidency - if not top, nothing |
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If he can't have the top spot, the general won't serve the country in the 2nd spot.
Apparently his service has self-imposed limitations.
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Dogfolks
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Tue Jan-06-04 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
58. No need to talk about VP spot now |
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What would you think of any candidate who said at this point in the festivities "Yes, I'll take the #2 spot"? He or she would be toast, and would certainly never be nominated for VP.
They're all running for the top spot. Nobody should be expected to tip their cards on VP until the race at least STARTS, or maybe - if we can just be a little more patient - until it's ACTUALLY OVER.
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #58 |
71. It's not about yes...it's that he absolutely refused.... |
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Of course, since he has changed his mind a number of times in the past, even about which party he supports, he might change his mind.
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jmaier
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Tue Jan-06-04 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
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a silly comment. Has Gov Dean said anywhere that he would support a VP postion? Kerry? Gephardt? Enough said.
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KoKo
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:07 AM
Response to Original message |
21. Maybe his campaign managers are positioning him as the "dark horse?" |
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Let the other candidates debate, have the sleeping public say "they're boring" and then Clark comes in as the "unknown" somewhere along.
It might be an interesting strategy. He got in late so he doesn't have alot of money. Maybe this is the way he can make the most impact for the buck.
Outside of DU the American public doesn't know much about him. Actually the average Cable or Reality Show viewer doesn't even know who Dean is.
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Turkw
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:13 AM
Response to Original message |
23. He is not campaigning in Iowa, Hello- he has been to several debates and |
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will be to more in the future. The visceral hatred is disgusting. You would criticize him for helping injured people in a vehicle that went off a mountain road. YOU know he did that once, putting himself at risk.
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #23 |
35. Yes, I know, we're not supposed to criticize a war hero... |
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Do you criticize George Bush, Sr.?
He was a valiant war hero, too.
Visceral hatred? Clark is my number two.
I just find it insulting to the electorate that Wesley Clark refuses to answer questions like the rest of the major candidates. It does sound wimpy....or it smacks of nasty political calculation.
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Turkw
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Tue Jan-06-04 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #35 |
75. He has answered every question put to him, he made changes in his schedule |
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to be in the debate, twice, then it changed again. And more importantly, he answers questions from the voters, us the people in the street, does so at every event he goes to now, I believe, certainly did it at the events I was at.
If you are going to criticize him, do it for something real and not a non issue like this.
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Killarney
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:14 AM
Response to Original message |
28. Hasn't this been covered 2,000 times already? |
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He's not campaigning in Iowa. The reasons have been gone over again and again.
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #28 |
37. Joe Lieberman isn't campaigning in Iowa...but is debating... |
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Why is Clark wimpier about this than Lieberman?
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SahaleArm
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #37 |
40. Good for Lieberman - Maybe he'll take another whack at Iowa n/t |
helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #40 |
42. Lieberman is many things, but not a wimp in this campaign (n/t) |
SahaleArm
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #42 |
48. I guess you found a new candidate, congrats n/t |
maxr4clark
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #37 |
43. Lieberman won't win Connecticut |
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much less Iowa, no matter how many debates he goes to. Lieberman is going to the debate to slam Kerry and Dean, that's all he seems to do anymore.
This is a decisive action by Clark. He decided not to campaign in Iowa so that he could focus on New Hampshire and the Feb 3 states. He's shown up in debates; he reached the national audience on Hardball and Meet the Press. He hasn't shown any interest in attacking the other Democrats, which is all that happened at the Iowa debate anyway. Not going to Iowa to debate was a strategic win for him, especially if it helps him take second away from Kerry in NH.
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #43 |
44. So will you call it decisive or strategic when Pres. Bush avoids debates? |
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Or will you use a double standard...
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SidDithers
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Tue Jan-06-04 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #44 |
49. If he skips a one on one debate vs Bush when he's the nominee... |
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Then you'll have a valid point. Not participating in a 9 person slagfest, in a state you're not even contesting, is just smart campaigning.
Sid
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returnable
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Tue Jan-06-04 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #49 |
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By the way, go Sabres :hi:
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KittyWampus
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Tue Jan-06-04 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #37 |
54. Lieberman Can't Pay His Own Staff |
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Edited on Tue Jan-06-04 11:53 AM by cryingshame
And desperately needs any exposure he can get.
Clark is not only NOT desperate... he's Dean's main challenger.
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Racenut20
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:27 AM
Response to Original message |
39. U R trying to be what is commonly called a "Sh*t disturber" |
helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #39 |
41. I'm trying to ask why criticize Bush for avoiding debates...but not Clark? |
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One afternoon somewhere other than Iowa will make or break Clark's campaign?
If so, he is really skating on thin ice in his campaign.
If it's avoidance...then why?
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LoneStarLiberal
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Tue Jan-06-04 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #41 |
62. Moreso Margin of Error Than Thin Ice |
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Avoiding debates in a General Election is a very different beast from avoiding debates in a Primary Election, particularly in a field where finishing one place above the pack or finishing in the middle of the pack could make a huge difference in whether you live through Super Tuesday or have to throw in the towel before Super Tuesday.
It's not so much a matter of thin ice as it is margin of error. Clark has a far more complex decision matrix to consider than Dean. An extra stump speech here and an extra day on the ground there could precisely be what tips the balance in his favor versus Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt, and Lieberman.
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zulchzulu
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:46 AM
Response to Original message |
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If it was any other candidate, it would be brought up as an issue by the other candidates.
Imagine if Kerry or Dean sat out on a couple of debates. Would no one mention it?
Um....
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TexasSissy
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:56 AM
Response to Original message |
46. He's not running in IA. I haven't heard anything about the NPR. |
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I'm not familiar with those debates, either. Never seen one. Maybe that's why he's not participating in that?
I think he has a game plan and is focusing on that. He got in too late to do anything and everything that the others do. He has to be focused on where it counts most.
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #46 |
47. We Dems. have consistently attacked the Repubs for avoiding debates |
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But when it's Wesley Clark...it is a game plan and good strategy?
Sounds like a double standard to me.
I want a candidate who won't wimp out from public questioning.
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returnable
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Tue Jan-06-04 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #47 |
53. Clark has participated... |
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...in plenty of these debates. So your argument is a weak one. That he has chosen to bypass these two most recent debates to focus on his campaign in New Hampshire is a move of strategy, not avoidance.
If Clark had skipped every debate up until this point (or if these debates actually offered up something more than a series of rehashed soundbites), you'd have something.
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Kahuna
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Tue Jan-06-04 12:51 PM
Response to Original message |
59. Both Iowa debates where Clark is not competing.. |
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His efforts are better spent where he can make a showing.
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #59 |
73. Since he can't make a showing nationally...that is EXACTLY the problem |
LoneStarLiberal
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Tue Jan-06-04 01:14 PM
Response to Original message |
60. Best Use of Resources |
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I would personally like to see Clark in the NPR debate.
My guess is that with the big emphasis all the non-Dean campaigns are placing on finishing second in New Hampshire and with the slew of other primaries coming up (Arizona, Oklahoma, South Carolina) that Clark and his staffers felt like his time could be better spent continuing to move up in the standings in New Hampshire and making speeches and appearances in the other early primary states where he is running.
As for skipping out on the Iowa Public TV debate, the only question I have is why would you go? I'm a Clark backer, but I don't think he nor Joe Lieberman had any right to be at that debate. They are not running in the caucus, so they don't need to be in the debate that is a focal point for that caucus.
So, instead of "why not show up?", I'll answer "why show up?" To take shots at Howard Dean, that's why. I mean did Joe Lieberman do anything else with his time in the Iowa Public TV debate other than take shots at Dean? Nope. Up to this point Clark has not fallen into the wider pattern of attacking Dean on everything, though he has maintained a steady criticism of Dean's lack of foreign policy experience.
I feel the reason he wasn't at the earlier debate was that he needed that time to campaign in states where he has a chance; basically, it was his best use of resources, time and geography being chief among the resources Clark has to maximize down the stretch.
Let me know if Lieberman does anything today besides smear Dean. Since that's the only reason he has to participate, that's why he is there. Clark can better spend his time running a campaign based on merits and ideas in states where he is running instead of spending his most scarce resource, time, in Iowa trying to paste Howard Dean.
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kentuck
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Tue Jan-06-04 01:20 PM
Response to Original message |
61. No. He's being a smart politician.... |
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There was nothing to gain in the Iowa debates. The whole purpose of the debates was to permit the other candidates the opportunity to tear down the front-runner, Howard Dean. Clark was wise to sit it out.
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Nashyra
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Tue Jan-06-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #61 |
65. Actually this thread reveals alot about some Dean supporters |
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Edited on Tue Jan-06-04 01:51 PM by Nashyra
Grasping at straws. Clark takes more questions more often than most candidates. If I recall correctly the last major debate televised wasn't it Clark that was 1/2 hour late to the post debate spin room because he was busy answering questions? If you want to be critical of a candidate at least be intelligent about it.
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #65 |
72. No show...not there...nada...too too busy in New Hampshire... |
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Instead of running a national campaign.
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windansea
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Tue Jan-06-04 01:46 PM
Response to Original message |
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my first ever poop post (I think)
ahhhhhhhhhhh...
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Jack_Dawson
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Tue Jan-06-04 02:28 PM
Response to Original message |
67. Debates are beneath Clark |
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Whenever Clark is forced to share a stage with lessers like Lieberman, it does him no good. He's above all that petty infighting. Clark is about vision...most of the others are about backstabbing, right-wing talking points.
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #67 |
68. Clark the elitist...pointed out by his supporters |
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Yes, I think it is a statement he thinks he is "above" campaigning by answering direct questions...just like Bush.
I'm not looking for an elitist for President.
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jonnyblitz
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Tue Jan-06-04 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #67 |
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Edited on Tue Jan-06-04 02:49 PM by jonnyblitz
how condescendingly arrogant. :puke:
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helleborient
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Tue Jan-06-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #74 |
77. Your supporter said it first...not me...just look up (n/t) |
Scott Lee
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Tue Jan-06-04 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #67 |
81. So "let them eat cake" huh? |
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Thank you for showing us, with no holds barred, why Clark should not be elected. He's an elitist - exactly the kind of creature the New Democrats and the Dean supporters are trying to purge from this losing party.
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BobbyJay
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Tue Jan-06-04 04:08 PM
Response to Original message |
78. He did it to piss you off. (nm) |
Scott Lee
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Tue Jan-06-04 04:21 PM
Response to Original message |
79. No, he's just not a good debator. |
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It is often touted that Clark was on his school's debate team. If so, it had to be in the capacity as a waterboy, because the guy cannot debate.
He gives longwinded and evasive answers.
His delivery is not convincing, you don't get the impression he's actually talking to you.
Off the cuff, he stumbles, stammers, isn't sure of his footing.
If I were his campaign advisers, I'd have him avoid every debate possible.
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BobbyJay
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Tue Jan-06-04 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #79 |
80. Dean is maybe the worst debator I've seen. |
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Fri May 03rd 2024, 03:16 PM
Response to Original message |