DU is really stupid..

[lxlxlxl]

You don't think the Palin stuff was a tactic?

You think REALITY means anything to them? or QUALIFICATIONS?

THE REPUBLICANS HAVE DEFINED THEMSELVES AS THE FUCK YOU PARTY.

"WE ARE REPUBLICANS, AND WE DEFINE THE TRUTH YOU HAVE TO LIVE IN"

This is the argument in front of you now. It is very serious, and I really don't understand
how it can be clearer...AGAIN!

The GOP are phonies.

The GOP are frauds.

The whole election year was an illusion.

When you get into details about what is wrong with the parties, ask yourself which party gets dragged into ridiculous positions because they
took the other party's complaints seriously.

Sen. Obama has been smart, trying to deal with what people said they were concerned about, courageous enough to go all over the country knowing what happened in the 60s.
He has been subjected to every slander, lie, smear, and attack on his wife, and they JUST PUT UP SOMEONE WITH THE SAME PROBLEMS IN ORDER TO INNOCULATE HER. They took
a YEAR OF YOUR LIFE AND CONCERN, and JUST SPAT IN YOUR FACE.

They CREATE PHONY ARGUMENTS, ASK YOU TO REPUTE THEM, AND THEN PRETEND LIKE THEY DIDNT CARE INITIALLY.

THESE PEOPLE ARE CHILDREN.

I'm sick. I've seen the campaign float and unknown Palin and not just be honest about all the stuff they should have known. They provoked Kos and DU over the weekend,
and turned it into a "liberal media" argument by Monday morning to protect her from interviews.

EVERYTHING LAST WEEK WAS FAKE. BLATANTLY IN YOUR FACE FAKE.

THESE PEOPLE ARE DEEPLY IRRESPONSIBLE. THEY ARE PLAYING GAMES WItH PEOPLES LIVES.

[TrogL]

1. they are classic authoritarians

[lxlxlxl]

54. Your right.

I am tempted to drop all pretense about philosophy and meaning, and just engage these idiots on the basis of Resistance to Caesarism. It is as if all of the last 50 years of history was an ephiphenomena of philosophy vs. philosophy, while it was really Caesarism vs. Resistance. See Buck-Morss's Dreamworld and Catastrophe.


I'm trying my best to get through all of the replies, but I am also leaving the country. I'm sorry if I don't get to your reply.

[Matariki]

2. and what do you suggest?

you raise valid points.

[lxlxlxl]

44. A reconfiguration of the political map

Libertarians, Independents, and even Progressive Leftists all want smaller, closer to home, accountable government. It's just that Progressives want to get to that at some point without destroying the lives of poor people in the short run.

That is what we are fighting for now in the long-term, and I hope people have the ability to see that.

[Arugula Latte]

3. I understand what you're saying, but what is your recommended strategy

for dealing with this false reality they create?

[lxlxlxl]

45. I was short on answers...sorry...I am a little pissed.

I posted something above, but I think a coalition might be necessary, and I know it sounds scary, but ignoring national democratic politics over local and state democratic politics. Keep the stronger people closer to home.

[Bluenorthwest]

47. Step one:

They don't create a reality. They try to build a spin storm. It goes to the next level only when we start calling it reality. Words are big power. A public relations tactic is not a 'reality' that has been created, it is an illusion. The magician does not really make the rabbitt disappear, it is just an illusion. And there is a difference.
Strategy one, from my point of view, is to stop giving them power like that. Call things by their actual names. Saying your rival can create reality is the talk of fools. Our rivals try to build a veneer, a facade that might pass a quick inspection. That is not reality. I say do not call a manniquine a person for having a similar form.
This may seem like a small thing I'm saying, but the trick they do that impresses you all so much is done with words. It is a word game. So look to the words. Use them with care. A lack of precision helps them attain their goals. We become the magician's shill who looks at the trap door and says 'there is no trap door' to sucker the marks.

[Solomon]

4. You think we don't know that!? Look around. It's all anybody's

talking about. I think people are enjoying it, that's why there's so much of it.

[lxlxlxl]

48. I was seeing

alot of the Palin Baby stuff when I posted...and hearing alot of really weak noise on tv and radio. the lack of focus and intelligence is stunning here and other places. sorry if i picked on DU, but that was the case.

[progressivebydesign]

5. Actually, I think people who discount the CHARACTER issues are stupid.

DU is not the Democratic Party. It's a website for thousands of people of all types. We come here to discuss things, blow off steam, make friends, vent, and share info. LBN is where the hard news stories are. GD and GDP are discussion oriented.

I think it's important, though not ALL important, that the character issues be discussed here. We did it with George Bush, and McCain, and Lieberman, and we will continue to do that.

Character and likability, unfortunately, are HUGE for many voters. Most voters aren't reading TimesUK or NYT or DU. Often people vote against their own interests if the person seems likable. The stories here are setting down into real meaty stuff, but we will STILL discuss things that relate to WHO this person really is. Issues only tell one side of the story --

I am becoming suspect of so many people begging us to stop talking about Palin's character.

[OwnedByFerrets]

22. That was spot on....nt

[symbolman]

33. Here here..

I'm behind you 100%, it is OUR Responsibilty to VET this asshole since the Media and McSame Co have NO INTENTION..

They are Creating a FALSE Reality and foisting it on the Public, by HIDING.

Therefore WE NEED TO EXPOSE THE TRUE Reality and spread it far and wide. I'm working on a Flash political attack ad against Palin, and McCain's FUCK YOU FIRST AMERICA choice.. and it will be hard hitting,

No Mercy. No Prisoners. This is WAR.

Thanks for Nailing it :)

[lxlxlxl]

50. radical materialism

Money makes people do things. Character is a reflection of capital-- earned and percieved. It's as old as Aristotle or Aurelius "Poverty is the mother of all desperation"

I think epiphenomenon is real. Character debates are phony, transient, and promote a dialogue that attracts children, and ignores reality.

Look at how economics is used in presidential campaigns...our national media is absolutely a joke on the issue (see Velshi's program on CNN/Kudlow and his b.s.)...

Economics comes up every election cycle, and gets dismissed without addressing issues of accountability or even BASIC legality in markets.

Economics is about numbers, or it should be. Yet, our inability to focus on it is killing us. when we are incapable of even coming to a conculsion
as to "How much money does the government have?" "How much does it spend?"

These are not impossible questions to answer, yet NO cable news show, radio show, or national print publication would EVER DARE to try to take this issue on seriously. It would
take weeks, massive advertisement, and any competing news channel/radio/print would just have to talk about tits all week to destroy that whole effort.

The only way to get to objectivity is COUNTING.

Everyone seems interested in doing anything but that. They want to talk about tits, ass, and every salacious b.s. story out there.

That is a class "downward spiral" force, and if you don't realize that is where Fox / News Corp. strategy is then you are naive.

[panader0]

6. So the repubs are evil and that makes DU stupid?

[lxlxlxl]

53. Stupid for not focusing on winning. Yes.

Sorry if I was a little angry.


I'm trying my best to get through all of the replies, but I am also leaving the country. I'm sorry if I don't get to your reply to this.

[tbyg52]

7. Yes, we know.

Suggestions?

[K8-EEE]

8. Yeah like DUH!

You mean the GOP convention was disgusting and fake and they're liars? Wow, who knew THAT??

:eyes:

[tbyg52]

12. Yes, that's what I *meant*...!

Sometimes I don't notice how my subject looks with the OP's subject until I've already hit "post."

[K8-EEE]

20. Oh I know, I agree with you

I was taking issue with the OPs screaming/yelling at the choir, LOL!

:hi:

[tbyg52]

26. LOL!

:hi:

[K8-EEE]

9. Why are you calling people who know all this "stupid?"

Is that supposed to be constructive in some way?

[regnaD kciN]

42. He's LOOKING DOWN on us...

...he thinks we're STUPID.

What an elitist!

;-)

[lxlxlxl]

55. Yes. Read a book. Understand the history and sacrifice that came before your life.

I know your being sarcastic. I've seen all the elitism shit I can deal with. There is smart and stupid in the world. Stupid needs to get in the corner and shut up.


I'm trying my best to get through all of the replies, but I am also leaving the country. I'm sorry if I don't get to your reply.

[flamingdem]

10. We need a landslide

to put them in their places.

But we must work, work, work at the grassroots level and not depend on Obama's campaign.

He is depending on US!!!

Check out these links about ways you can combat voter and election fraud. We need those numbers on our side!

Voter fraud links:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6929299&mesg_id=6929299

[tbyg52]

25. Yes, and even a landslide doesn't guarantee anything.

I refer you to (among others) Max Cleland.

[nini]

11. I'm curious - how old are you?

Do you think this is new in politics?

Yes, everything you say is correct, but it is nothing new.

[lxlxlxl]

52. 30 thank you...followed politics as early as I can remember

What is outrageous is how the Palin issue wasn't about the kids. Forget the kids. If everyone on TV/Radio started asking why the McCain campaign intentionally did not address the pregnancy in a press release, instead of letting it get "discovered" in an intense campaign -- the onus of the argument shift backs to them. They have to prove that they vetted her. They have to tell us why they weren't forthcoming. You don't even need palin to get an answer. The press operation, the pundits, and mccain himself are (AND HAVE BEEN ALL WEEK) to answer that question.


Mind you, this idea that "this isn't new" just doesnt cut it with me either. cheap access novelty is the core of capitalism for the last 50 years.

Truth is immediately recieved as true, but that doesn't mean that the individual will not have to reassert that truth when necessary. That takes focus.

That said... Barack was "new" though. He wasn't the old b.s. of Clinton vs. The Right. No more, lets play smart only and sit back while people dog on us. Reach out to the non-ideologues. Be available and out there.

The guy has been BUSTING HIS ASS all over the country, and the other party DOESNT WANT TO LOOK UP WHAT A COMMUNITY OrGANIZER IS?

I'm trying my best to get through all of the replies, but I am also leaving the country. I'm sorry if I don't get to your reply.

[dana_b]

13. we can be "stupid" at times - no doubt, but

it's stupid to never discuss things either. This is a discussion board, afterall, and people will have different opinions.

[lxlxlxl]

56. your right...

i just take DU as a measure of (approximate) popular progressive sentiment, and I just do not see the strength or clarity to either produce the people that would have to come in after barack, or even deal with the sabotage he would have to deal with (IF ELECTED)

Might not get to your reply to this, but thank you.

[dana_b]

67. well... I don't know

maybe not from this board - lol - but there are some damn smart people out their in both the progressive movement and the Democratic party (sometimes in both).

Right now we need to stop sabotaging him by not playing by their rules. Attack McCain/Palin on issues and leave the b.s. alone. If we can do that, we may win this thing. Does that mean people here will stop talking about nonsense? No way. lol

[libnnc]

14. Who are you calling stupid?

Get back to me when you have something constructive to offer, Sparky.

Everything you've posted is pretty fucking obvious and if you've spent more than a day on DU you would know that.



So who is the stupid one? :eyes:

[lxlxlxl]

57. Havent read your posts...

Just venting a little bit...fair enough? Going to update the thread title if I can.

Curious if DU understands the difference between IRC and USENET in principle.

And if any of that was "obvious" then I would have heard that often, or even seen it in the press.

[Breeze54]

15. "I know you are but what am I?"

:silly:

Is this how you deal with your family's issue's? Tell them they're stupid?

Then what? Thank You for pointing out the obvious. That DU can't believe

what assholes McDim and Palin are!! Yup... DU gets pretty upset at fucking

stupid mutha focking assholes! My family's the same way!! When one member

gets upset and has a tantrum? We blame everyone in the house and in the neighborhood! :crazy:

[lxlxlxl]

58. I tried to do more than that.

There are explicit things that I talk about in the post other than "blah blah is stupid"

[Forkboy]

16. Welcome to DU...feel free to shit anywhere.

[renie408]

18. That was funny. n/t

[renie408]

17. I have read that a couple of times and I am having trouble finding the part that explains

why the DU is stupid.

I guess I really AM stupid. Could you elucidate, please?

[stillcool]

19. DU is really stupid?

Mirrors are everywhere.

[Sebastian Doyle]

21. "THE REPUBLICANS HAVE DEFINED THEMSELVES AS THE FUCK YOU PARTY. "

And their stage on Thursday night proved it....

http://static.guim.co.uk/Guardian/world/gallery/2008/sep/05/uselections2008/[e-mail]

John & Cindy say "Fuck You America" ....

[stuntcat]

23. to me..

to me it's clear that they're playing games with the future of the entire world. They are the closest I'll ever see to true Evil, yet millions will vote for them because of religion.

I agree with what you're saying, but I'm not sure how this makes Democratic Underground "really stupid"

[La Lioness Priyanka]

24. how does this make us stupid? are we voting for the palin ticket?

[girl gone mad]

27. Hey! I resemble that remark! n/t

[babylonsister]

28. Good post, for the most part, except your subject line needs honing.

So where are you to discuss your perceptions? DU is a discussion board, and you could be invaluable, or more dust in the wind.

[mamalone]

29. Alrighty then....

If we are so "stupid" then why are you wasting your time here?


oh.. and welcome to DU. If you stick around you'll find we have some of the best political minds and creative thinkers in the country here. A word of advice, sit back, read and learn before you start making rash judgments and shouting insults:)

[Writer]

30. "DU is really stupid..."

Actually, I prefer to live in a Sorelian nightmare where I can take nothing at face value and believe everything is a product of the pernicious interests of the Other.

But otherwise, yeah.

[MadMaddie]

31. It is obvious that you are angry and that's okay

But many of us have been here for a long time and we have been working on our anger issues with each other....

Basic points that you make...yea we know that about the Repugs

But it is important that we do talk about the issues. If we don't talk about Palin and dig for the truth about her then she gets a free pass and McCain gets a free pass.

If it weren't for sites like DU and other sites many of the red flag issues about Palin would not have come up if we depended on the MSM.

So I am not going to go off on you because I think that you have reached the point of utter disgust with the Repugs and you need to express it.

We are a big family here and we will get through it together!

[Duppers]

32. yeah, and you're just gonna sit on your hands and do what?

I have personally converted 2 rethugs by givin' them the facts....over & over.

what have you done? besides complain here?

[bleever]

34. I cannot repute their arguments!!

I couldn't pute them the first time!

[amborin]

35. exactly...Palin was classic Rove, i'm sure he selected her..all a trick

and dems fell for it

[stolivodka]

39. OMG YOU ARE RIGHT WE ARE NOW WAY BEHIND!!!!

Oh wait, we aren't. Maybe they really are just running a crappy campaign.

[WinkyDink]

36. Republicans lie like others breathe! They evilly betray those who are suckers enough to

vote for their lies.

In short, Republicans not only hate the common American and would prefer he be enslaved with low wages, no (inexpensive) health care, no pension, dangerous working conditions, little to no food inspections, crappy "education", constant and illegal surveillance, and dying in a criminal venture overseas;

Republicans HATE AMERICA.

They HATE the Constitution and all those "rights" (with the sole exception of the 2nd Amendment, which they pervert) and "separation of powers";
they HATE Democracy and work to deprive citizens of the vote and the vote of its sanctity;
they HATE the "free press" and work to destroy its trutworthiness and hence legitimacy;
they HATE America's being a role model and so condone war crimes and torture;
they HATE the very land and want to despoil and exploit it for transitory financial gain.

Never forget:

Republicans HATE AMERICA.

[truthisfreedom]

37. Who cares? Obama will still win, by a significant margin. He's got too much on the ground

for the pukes to be able to catch up now.

[TexasObserver]

38. Broadbased smear. Calling out other members. Flamebait.

[lxlxlxl]

64. Based on Threads at the Time. Didn't name specific people.

In Houston now, and planning on getting out. sorry if i dont reply.

[TexasObserver]

70. I don't care for any threads that accuse DU generally.

When you do so, then you identify those who are bothering you, what you're really doing is engaging in a broadbrushed attack on a subset at DU.

Why don't you simply address the issue that bothers you, instead of posing the issue as DU IS STUPID?

And if someone is bothering you, try saying so in the thread where they bother you, instead of starting yet another whining thread about how someone at DU thinks in a way you don't care for.

[Trajan]

40. Maybe your subject line was a bit misleading ....

DU is no more and slightly less stupid than most other forums ....

Yet ... the body of your post shows that the republicans are running a cynical campaign, NOT that 'DU is stupid' .....

Who can disagree with THAT thesis ? .....

Shrugs ... no harm, no foul .... You are right about their cynical machinations ....

[Norrin Radd]

41. The attention toward the VP pick would've occurred, regardless of the person chosen.

[lxlxlxl]

68. but...

yes your right, but...

If they had picked James Baker or Tom Ridge though, US Weekly would not be involved correct? Non political
radio would not have said much...correct?

It might sound too paranoid for some people, but look...they USED the pregnant
kid to create all of this tabloid bullshit that came up on Kos.

If they vetted Sarah Palin, then they should have known about the pregnant teen.

Not releasing a press release asking for privacy was a CONSCIOUS decision then,
which if you are older than 25+ you KNOW will create a vicious buzz
out there in blog/radioland that you can then PRETEND to get outraged about...that
is an indicator of how responsible the McCain camp is about doing their job.

This is how you avoid the tabloid shit, and put the responsibility on the FOCUS OF YOUR CAMPAIGN - JOHN MCCAIN.

This way of arguing also reinforces Barack's initial challenge to the "experience alone = good president " question, which he
correctly showed that Experience and Judgement are both linked, and cannot be separated.

[jzodda]

43. Welcome to politics, and no DU is NOT stupid, this is not our first rodeo

131 posts and already calling us all stupid. You will make friends fast here :D

[lxlxlxl]

63. I am sorry...I am really angry...

I am 30 years old and grew up here in Houston to South Indian parents. I am in Houston now and have had run ins with cops that are personally embarassing and outrageous.

The message last week was, work hard brown man, be safe responsible and smart, and shut the fuck up if you hear anything you disagree with. I am not new to this. I've been
watching politics my whole life. I earned a BA with Honors in Political Science and Psychology because I loved this stuff since I was a kid. I knew where Bamiyan was. I knew
who Rush Limbaugh was. I knew who Massoud was on 9/10.

I've worked since I was 15 and don't have a dime close to what my upper-middle-class friends have lived with.

I was working at a local new york magazine on 9/11 and told my friends "I guess the rednecks of america vs. the rednecks of central asia are going to go at it. let's hope we don't all get dragged too deep into this..."

i was wrong. i was patient for six years. I've been really patient this last year.

even if barack wins, no one in this country is ready to deal with the daily sabotage he will have to deal with, and the pleasure that FOX news anchors will have when it happens. and fucking wolf blitzer will love it too.

last reply...thx

[jzodda]

69. Forgiven brother and welcome to DU

I am also angry too. Lets hope things start to change this November! My patience is also gone and has been replaced with anger. Anger at the rest of the country who is asleep at the wheel while the Repukers mess up this country.

[OneBlueSky]

46. what worries me most is that they are able to do all this with no fear . . .

of losing the election . . . could it be because they know that a Republican victory is again pre-ordained by those who count the votes? . . .

"It's not who votes that counts; it's who counts the votes." . . .

[Bluenorthwest]

60. That is not reality, that is a tactic

That is the assumptive close, that is a device. I don't see them as having no fear, that is a mistake. They are acting as if they have no fear, which is smart of them, but it is not the same as being fearless. Projecting confidence is a tactic, acting as if you are already victorious is a ploy, a frame. You do that even if you know or think you are doomed. When you got nothing, you act like you got everything.
Just saying, calling an illusion by the name reality makes it real. They can only foist the con, others imbue it with the power of the actual.

[lxlxlxl]

65. salesman techniques

never heard that before...thx...

shit...i think you sort of nailed it.

and in less word count and rage than i did...thx...

[lxlxlxl]

62. possibly...

for me its beyond THIS election at this point. If we are just fighting four year battles then there is no way sustained progressive education or even marginalized resistance can happen.

in other words, If the republicans win, yes its fixed. if barack wins, then these same tactics are goign to be used every day for 365X4 days. I'm not sure this country is up to that task. Presidents do not get that type of media access, especially when there is a baby missing somewhere, or some asshole goes crazy...or god forbid another attack/escalation.

CApital markets are prone to sabotage by the people invested in them. They are the "rug" that can be pulled out from a society if they decide they want to. The country is too stupid (and has been primed to do so intentionally) to realize or deal with that. Do you think that is something that can be discussed in a presidential/VP debate when you are running against "Aw Shucks"

Gotta go...leaving the country so I might not reply.

[TheZug]

49. I agree, and let me add . . .

. . . that all the handwringing that goes on here about our treatment in the MSM is also stupid.

The Republicans don't sit around fretting about the MSM.

They make the MSM do what they want.

Sitting around passively watching TV isn't going to get Obama elected.

[lxlxlxl]

59. thx...

[slackmaster]

51. I think you've correctly identified the pattern

Welcome to DU.

[Life Long Dem]

61. It's all fake. And they'll try to steal it.

[Imagevision]

66. I agree, if repugs can they will steal this election, Chevron/Mobil signed drilling rights agreement

they need the troops to remain so they can get the oil to market!