"When they steal the election..."

[Lorentz]

I'm tired of hearing about the GOP stealing the election. It's paranoid and ill-founded, in my opinion. But, others will argue to the death that it really happened.

So, to those of you who honest feel that the GOP will steal *this* election, I ask you: WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? How are you going to change this result? Posting on DU isn't going to help. All it does is convey a defeatist attitude. If the polls are up for Obama: too bad, they're going to steal the election. If the polls are down, OMG, they're setting up for the steal.

If you have nothing positive to contribute, and you insist on believing that this election is already lost, then do us all a favor and find another place to post. The negativity is not needed here, nor is it wanted.

[Marsala]

1. Thank you n/t

[asdjrocky]

2. Someone died and made you DU's "positive" monitor?

[liberal renegade]

4. sorta sounds like it.

[bigmonkey]

10. No, but these "we're all doomed" rants have an effect.

They're not neutral speech, they're not normally even arguments, they're emotional calls for despair concealed, usually, by a self-serving claim that the poster is being "realistic". If you want to get out from under this terrible style of governance you need to realize that these rants are not helping. I've seen a few people argue that they are trying to wake people up, but I challenge anyone to show that these rants encourage more people than they discourage. Very few people combine the willingness to work tirelessly for progress with the certain conviction that it's pointless. I've seen person after person who runs one of these rants say that that's what they think - I find this very curious. Very few people are like that but, unfortunately, they all seem to want to rant here.

The tone of what you say, no matter how well written, has an emotional effect - these negative rants dampen enthusiasm and spread despair. The electoral situation is nowhere near so cut-and-dried that this makes any kind of sense - in fact the situation is quite positive. As someone once said: "No one knows enough to be a pessimist." The effect of these rants is almost entirely negative, and, my contention is, really self-indulgent. Usually I piss the poster off when I point this out, but again they, of course, are one of these tireless medieval hero types who intend to kill themselves fighting an eternally unbeatable dragon, and feel that this doom should mysteriously inspire others.

It's only inspiring because the dragon will eventually die, and we can hasten its demise, but this is what these rants explicitly deny. As someone else's metaphor from this past eight years says: "You can't just roll over and die, you have to make them kill you." Why? Because it tires them out, and they eventually fail. The 50-state strategy is like this. This is the reason that the Democrats should be making the Republicans filibuster, because they will eventually get tired. They win enough Pyrrhic victories and they lose the war. But these ranters never seem to see that larger picture, that it's worth fighting because we can win. Look at FDR's victory. Sometimes the good guys win. We will win this one, we will kill this dragon, we're swarming it right now.

Refraining from these rants is not being a polyanna. Focus on the practical! Again, if you really want out from under, then you wouldn't do anything to help the other side. This helps them. Stop it, or admit that you want to help the bad guys.

(edit for clarity and punctuation)

[StClone]

3. I believe 9/11 was as it appears more so

Than our elections are legit. Me thinks you have some well-footnoted reading to do.

[Lorentz]

5. OK, they were stolen. The question is: what are you going to do so it doesn't happen again?

[WinkyDink]

32. How about you answer for your own sweet self?

[Beregond2]

6. YES!

I am so sick of the Debbie Downers on this board. Some of them are clearly suffering from clinical depression, and need help. I wish they would get it, and stop trying to drag everyone else down with them.

[texastoast]

7. If it happens again

I would hope that the current Americans would make their Founding Fathers proud and start a revolution. But I doubt it.

[Demobrat]

8. So when people post things you don't like

or disagree with they should find another place to post? How about this instead - you put them on ignore. See? Problem solved. And EVERYBODY gets to express their opinions, not just you. That okay?

[Lorentz]

9. I think you'll find a lot of people don't like hearing it.

It's the ultimate defeat. We can't win. "The fix is in". According to some posters, whatever Obama does, whatever Biden does, whatever their supporters do: it's out of their control. They've already lost. How do you fight something like that?

Why the hell do we want to hear that opinion? What's the point? Honestly! That's not even an useful opinion. In fact, it's tantamount to trolling.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lorentz]

17. This isn't about me. It's about you. Answer the question.

What are you going to do to prevent the election from being stolen again?

[Demobrat]

23. Actually, yes it is about you.

It's about you telling people what they can and cannot post. I'd ask you just who the hell you think you are, but I already know.

[Lorentz]

29. You're hijacking the thread.

This is about those of you who scream that the election is pointless, because the GOP will ensure a win at any cost.

[Demobrat]

39. No, it's about a Repuke troll

who wouldn't need to ask if he had actually read any threads on the subject over the past 7 years.

[NoSheep]

22. Seems you'd rather pretend the elections WEREN't stolen. Wouldn't THAT be the surest way to lose?

:nopity:

[OwnedByFerrets]

11. ....

"Posting on DU isn't going to help" projection much?:rofl: :rofl: When you become a monitor you can police my post. Until then, just ignore them.

[TooRaLoo]

12. Seconded. nt

[Lorentz]

13. I don't understand what's funny.

My post is specifically targeting people posting on DU, so you're "projection" nonsense is moot.

That being said, please explain how posting on DU will prevent the GOP from "stealing the election".

[OwnedByFerrets]

37. DU is sometimes a place to get things off of our collective chests.......

nothing more, nothing less. I come here to be informed, but also to bitch. I come here to be with like minded people, and because I live in a very red part of the country, I dont get that opportunity here at home. Besides, discussing the known theft of two elections is something that NEEDS to be done. The "media" damn sure isnt going to do it.

[TheKentuckian]

14. If you think the fix is in

then you should be irate!

Defeatism, is about the only way we go down.

REFUSE TO LOSE!!!!!!!!


BRING THEM DOWN!!!

Some may think we can't but YES WE CAN!!!

[Lorentz]

18. You can ... what? What can you do?

[LaPera]

16. Try doing some reading......

You don't have a clue & you don't care, better not to even bring it up....How much television do you watch to form such uninformed opinions?

Have you spent any time reading on BradBlog, Mark Crispin Miller, RFK jr, Greg Palast, Harvey Wasserman, have you read any of them?

How about some on these sites...Raw Story, Alternet, Mother Jones, the Nation, Huffington Post, TruthOut Common Dreams, all (and many more sites) with stories and the facts on republican electronic voting machine theft.

There's also many authors & books on these facts....but do you read?

The republicans own the extremely easily hackable electronic voting machines that over 90% of Americans will be voting with...but you believe the republicans would never steal an election with the machines, even though it's so easy to do? And indeed they have since the republicans wrote the 2002 HAVA and probably before that.

Have you read any of page links below?
http://www.alternet.org/democracy/94977/
http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/09/14/election-can-be-stolen-in-under-a-minute-with-diebold-machines/
http://phoenixwoman.wordpress.com/2008/07/11/how-ohio-was-stolen/
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Video_shows_how_electronic_voting_machines_0909.html

Listen to progressive talk radio Mike Malloy, Thom Hartmann, Peter B Collins, etc....all have had many shows on electronic voting machine thefts.

Or is it easier to ignore, staying ignorant to facts and feeling secure and smug being voluntarily blind...by just telling everyone, don't talk about it even if it is true, not even bothering to investigate for yourself....

Only the mainstream corporate media (and republicans) NEVER talk about these real truths & facts concerning the republican owned & maintained electronic voting machines - So if you get your info from television, expect to be kept purposely in the dark....Do some reading!

[Lorentz]

19. I didn't ask you to prove to me that the election was stolen.

I asked what you were going to do about it, if you believe that is will be stolen again.

[NoSheep]

27. Rich: A contradiction AND a grammatical error. ('sounds drunk)

Don't you know who you're messin' with here, BOY?

WE're the LIB'RAL ELITE they've been tellin' you about.

[NoSheep]

24. Bless you.

[NoSheep]

20. Actually, many DUer's have been working VERY hard on it for a very long time.

and we STILL are. What Are YOU going to do about it, TROLL? One of the reasons we are here is to share info. we alert the media and the campaign. We get jazzed up to be active in our communities. YOU SUCK for being so disrespectful of those of us here who work hard against the imbalance of power.
FUCK YOU.

[NoSheep]

21. FUCK YOU TROLL-damn you are so wrong.

[dailykoff]

26. 2nd

that emotion.

[mattclearing]

34. 3rd

time's the charm.

[Kitty Herder]

35. 4th

[Zhade]

25. It undeniably DID happen in 2000 - if you can't accept that fact, why the fuck are you even here?

You do realize this website was founded BECAUSE they stole it, right?

[Lorentz]

28. OK, great. So what's been accomplished in 7 years to prevent another theft?

Obviously the first 4 years were a waste.

It's clear that from the unhinged emotional responses I've received so far from various posters, this is an issue of attention-grabbing for them. Apart from "Fuck you" and "fuck off" and similar niceties, NoSheep told me that s/he has been alerting the media and the campaign about the theft. There have been movements to ensure that voter fraud and disenfranchisement does not occur at polling stations in key states. If those resulted from these "alerts," that's a positive thing.

But again, all that effort is defeated by those of you who come on here and shout "The fix is in!". If you've done your duty at fighting the steal, why deep-six your efforts by telling everyone it's useless in the end?

[OwnedByFerrets]

38. There are efforts underway in many states to get back to

paper only ballots. If enough outrage is generated, officials will listen.

[flamingdem]

30. Get involved with EDA: What you can do to Defend Election '08 links

Lots you can do, click this link for more:

http://electiondefensealliance.org/what_you_can_do_defend_election_08


Sign up for Election Verification Polling (Citizen Exit Polls) in November
http://www.electiondefensealliance.org/evp

Sign up with the I-Count Corps to handcount ballots
http://electiondefensealliance.org/count/signup.php

Download, read, and share the Blackboxvoting 2008 Citizens' Toolkit
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/toolkit.html

Explore the links at the EDA Take Action page
http://www.electiondefensealliance.org/takeaction

Write a Letter to the Editor (or your Representative)
http://www.electiondefensealliance.org/let_people_count

Find and join a local election integrity group near you
http://www.electiondefensealliance.org/Regional_EI_Dire...

Join an EDA Working Group on a subject of your interest
http://www.electiondefensealliance.org/workinggroups

Subscribe for E-mailed EDA Alerts and Announcements

Donate Financial Support
http://electiondefensealliance.org/Donate

[WinkyDink]

31. YasSUH, Boss!

[mattclearing]

33. Maybe if you knew what you were talking about I'd give a shit what you think.

Read up on the Florida felon purge or the systematic denial of voting services all over Ohio in urban districts. Read RFK Jr's exhaustive Ohio story in Rolling Stone. Google Sherole Eaton. Then come back here and tell people how they are paranoid and ill-founded.

[Blarch]

36. " It's paranoid and ill-founded, in my opinion."

Ya right. You are implying the last two presidential elections were legit.

Nice try.