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Waiting for the republican bailout response. They will dump this right in our lap.

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Neshanic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 05:13 PM
Original message
Waiting for the republican bailout response. They will dump this right in our lap.
Pelosi Reid and Frank are the patsies.

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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Since there is so much public opposition to
this bailout I think McCain will vote against it. Look what the Republicans did with NAFTA it passed under Clinton and the first thing they do is blame Clinton for it even though the overwhelming majority of votes in Congress were Republicans.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. If he does, his candidacy will come to a quicker end
than otherwise predicted.

Big Business don't play that.

They is a reason that Big Business have been promised 250 Million initially.....
and not the whole enchilata!
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
30. his financial lobbyists won't like that!
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. That's one of the things I'm worried about....that McCain will vote NO
and plug himself as the champion of the middle class for doing so. McCain has already flipflopped a couple times on the bailout, so it's not like he has a real position yet.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. If you think that media has any influence on elections.....
McCain voting NO, would insure his defeat.

See my other posts in this thread to understand why.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. That makes sense, but
if McCain is desperate enough, as in thinking he can't win this election unless he pulls it out of his ass, he just might vote NO. Sure he'd figure on cutting off his vital lines to big business, but he would worry about that after getting elected (so he thinks), and besides, he had no problem cutting off his vital lifelines from Bush when he practically made a fool out of Bush during the debate the other night. McCain will say or do anything to win this thing so nothing would surprise me from this guy.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Very possible. The McCain campaign is all about "hail mary's" now.
Especially the way the polls have turned. They know they need a big one to change the dynamics. They are in major desperation mode. now. There is nothing off the table. But I am sure the Obama campaign is working through every possible scenario and preparing their response. They got it covered regardless what McIdiot does.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm not betting on your assessment.
It has been made public knowledge and accepted by the majority of voters that this crisis occurred on Bush's Watch and implicates Republican economic ideologies as why we got to this point.

Some Here are afraid that Repugs who are runnings scared will try to spin it otherwise, blame Democrats, and turn the election on its head by voting NO against the Rescue Package.

There is a problem for those Republicans however.......which is that they lack any real credibility. Those outraged Republicans are the "Free Marketers" that have been blamed for our problems to begin with. Those who attempt to vote NO on the rescue bill will need an awfully good solid back up story, and as Republicans, they are on the shakiest of ground....as a NO vote coming from them will be seen as political calculation laced with artificial outrage...by anyone with a 1/2 wit of sense. Some of them might survive, but as incumbents, I doubt it.

There is no doubt that Americans are upset about this bill.....as I am. But, the big question is who are they upset at? Those who caused a need for the Bail out, or those who ended up required to support a rescue bill in order to quash a pending calamity?

I believe that when everything is said and done, Bush, Wall Street, Republicans, and Washington DC, in that order, is how the blame will be ordained. Barack Obama, not really seen as having been in Washington long enough to have contributed to this, will be the last person blamed, no matter the spin. Some may argue that he didn't take enough command of the situation, but Obama is being backed by documented media account of handling his part in a very minimal and non intrusive manner, while John McCain has been reported of politicizing the problem with his campaign antics. Barack has made clear that he is running to clean this shit up, and wasn't part of how it got to where it ended up. He was also the one that provided clear changes to the original proposal, one that is more favorable to Main Street. In otherwords, Barack Obama represents change of exactly what has happened, and there is no way that he will be seen as anything beyond that.

How do I come to this conclusion?

BECAUSE:

There is tangible evidence that Wall Street is going down into the toilet.
Large firms like Caterpillar (equipment firm)having to pay almost twice the prior interest rate
http://www.forbes.com/reuters/feeds/reuters/2008/09/26/2008-09-26T184715Z_01_N25321491_RTRIDST_0_CATERPILLAR-CRISIS.html

GM (auto firm) line of credit worries that show that they are in real trouble http://www.247wallst.com/2008/09/gm-gm-dives-int.html

Washington Mutual failed
http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=91320&feedType=VideoRSS&feedName=Business&rpc=23&videoChannel=5&sp=true

and Wachovia is in talks to sale due to a possible verge of failure.
http://gothamist.com/2008/09/27/wachovia_talks_to_citi_others_about.php

The Chinese Banks have been given directive to stop lending to American banks, unless there is a plan in place.
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSPEK16693720080925

There have been many big time players stating that a rescue is not an option but a requirement to avert impending doom. CNN and folks like Warren Buffett are verifying that this is the case.
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSPEK16693720080925
http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/26/news/economy/bailout_impact/index.htm?cnn=yes

In otherwords, this "crisis" is not made up, as there is verifiable proof of such, nothwithstanding the public witnessing the failure of ALL investment banks as well as the largest insurer in the country, AGI.



It is my prediction that the people will want to vote for the ones who weren't directly responsible and if nothing else, negotiated a better position for the taxpayers.....and I think that they will do this.

In the back of their mind, there have been tell tale signs for a long time, and voters subconsciously will remember watching Bear-Stearns that was bailed out recently...as well as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

So this ain't happening in a vacuum.

It is true that the Congressional Democrats have had their face on Television more than I would have liked, some of them smiling, which I believe is not a good picture....

but because parade of press conferences by the mediating parties were done to reassure the markets.....as a large part of solving the crisis is re-establishing confidence, this has been a necessity more than grandstanding.

Also remember what there is something damning to point to; something in which John McCain is directly affiliated to The U.S. Savings and Loan Crisis, named as one of the biggest bail out in US history prior to now.

Bailout date: August 1989
Amount: Estimates vary widely, but $200 billion (in 2008 dollars) is a reasonable figure.


What happened: The “S&L” debacle of the late ’80s and early ’90s was long in the making and long in the unwinding. U.S. taxpayers were first put on the hook when then President George H.W. Bush (right) signed the Financial Institutions Reform, Recovery and Enforcement Act of 1989, which radically reformed the savings and loan industry and federal regulations. When the dust finally settled in 1995, more than 1,000 small lending institutions known as “savings and loans,” also called “thrifts,” had failed. Half of the federally insured thrift institutions in the United States had gone under in less than a decade, and the associated slowdown in new home construction and the financial fallout contributed to the 1990-1991 recession. The underlying causes of the S&L crisis are complex and disputed, but most scholars generally agree that high, volatile interest rates, reckless lending practices, rapid deregulation, and lax oversight paved the way for the greatest banking disaster since the Great Depression.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4470


So I think that this Rescue Plan/Bail out will not affect the presidential race detrimentrally.

Those harmed will be those seen as Washington insiders, and in particular, Republicans.

Also, for once, the Corporate media will make sure that those who participated affirmatively with this Rescue Plan will not be made to suffer.....because, fortunately, they are affected in this going well due to the interest of their parent companies, i.e., a financial collapse is not in their interest.

Keep in mind that only 250 Billion is being released at this time. The rest of the money comes with strings attached....which means that everyone has to continue to be on the same page, or else, the rest of the funds can be withheld. That means that BIG Business, including Media conglamorations cannot all of the sudden start covering for the Republicans who might want to blame this bill on whomever voted for it.


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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Don't underestimate the stupidity of the
American people if McCain votes against it he will be the hero to most low information voters. Enough Republicans in safe seats will vote for it to pass but people like McCain will vote against it for political advantage the hell with the country. We know McCain has no integrity at all he will do whatever it takes to win.
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BearSquirrel2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. I do ...

They live in the Faux News cave. They've been brainwashed.

After dark, WCPT Chicago goes dark and you get a right wing hate blowtorch out of Denver. The conservatives are blaming Democrats for the lack of regulation of Freddie and Fannie. It's inconceivably stupid. But I think we all have to remember that so many people believe that the networks are biased for liberals (ironically, actually for conservatives) so they cling to Faux New's "we report, you decide" crap.

The people who run the Republican party are smart. When they get lemons, they make lemonade. And they have gone whole hog into full fledged whoppers to blame Democrats for the lack of regulatory oversight. At the same time, they are going to dump the chimp as his value is pretty much done with.

Look to see a lot of McCain ads featuring Pelosi side by side with GW Bush. This is the GOP's new game plan. They are running against themselves. And as suckered as so many of my foolish citizens are, they could pull it off.




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Beregond2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. I agree 100%.
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Curtland1015 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Damn right Frenchie!
No one LIKES the idea of a "bail out", but we are screwed without it.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. "The rest" is still somewhat automatic. Good judgement? Like "Impeachment is off of the table?" eom
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RichGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. Thanks for all the info...it makes it a little bit clearer.
It seems like we really have nothing to lose...sink now or sink later if this plan doesn't work. I'm an optimist and I like to consider that maybe...it could work. Maybe, down the road, with these new provisions we could get our money back with interest earned and put the economy on the right track.
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Cosmic Charlie Donating Member (684 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. Arizona sure is home to some winners.
:puke:
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RepublicanElephant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. hoyer and rangel are live on c-span now n/t
Edited on Sun Sep-28-08 06:11 PM by DubyasWorld
.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. I just caught MSNBC saying Repuke lawmakers have been behind locked doors for..
Edited on Sun Sep-28-08 06:30 PM by mvd
2 hours. They can stay there for all I care. :-)
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Dems to Win Donating Member (245 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. Indeed. Pelosi should have demanded 199 Repub house votes before entering negotiations
with the Repub Pres and SecTres
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I agree, if not the Republicans and especially McSame are
going to hang the thing on the Democrats. If this had happened in the Clinton Administration the talking points would be out there and every Republican would be calling it the Clinton bailout or something, we would own the thing. When the whole damn thing is clearly a Republican mess the only Democrats that have the guts to tell it like it is is Barry frank and Dennis Kucinich.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
16. They'll add Bush to those names in order to
bolster McCain's faux maverick image.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
17. Doom & Gloom, part 3649
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. OP is desperate for an Obama loss
Imaginbe the humiliation come November 5 if Obama were to win. Showing face in forum again? Not so much...

:rofl:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. Few things are as sad
as seeing the results of Eeyore Syndrome. I am hoping that after President Obama takes office, that he will provide the funding needed to find a cure. Until then, I am sure there must be support groups for those who suffer from this terrible disease. Better they find comfort among their own, rather than experiencing the humiliation of being among happy folks.

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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. More like 36490.nt
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BearSquirrel2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
18. Yep ...

Congressional Democrats just got played like a snare drum.

Congressional Republicans will play like they are against this bailout. This is why the Democrats should have put all the regulations they wanted in the bill and allowed Bush to veto it.

I also seriously doubt that House Republicans were "locked out". This was a play on their part.

We're gonna take a big hit on this by allowing Republicans to play against their own positions and their own president.

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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. We need to vote in democratic reps who put "the middle class" ahead of their millionaire peers.
DAMN THEM! Every democrat who votes for this RAPE of our tax dollars to the wealthy robber barons and OVERSEAS BANKS should be unseated in their next Democratic Primary. :grr:
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
20. OH NOOOOOOESSSSS!
More of the same from you know who...
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
23. Rahm Emanuel
preempted them with some hardball reality. McFool and Phil Graham are the cause of this huge eff up.

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Abugface Donating Member (153 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
25. I think you may be right.

McCain will vote against it and claim he is the populist champion of the middle class. The Democrats will carry it around their necks at election time like an albatross. Big business is fine with McCain voting against it, as long as it passes. McCain voting against it will may help get him elected and that's all business cares about.

Let's pray the Dems don't get trapped on this one - the public is solidly against a bailout. McCain and Obama MUST both claim support and vote the same way.
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. I think the Dems are going to do some high profile investigation
to bring home McCain/Graham are ground zero in the deregulating which led to this.

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RichGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. McCain has lost the last shreds of his credibility...
because of the gimmicks and pranks. How is he going to pull off this big coup, when it's this kind of behavior that is sinking him. I think you give republicans too much credit.
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knowledgeispwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. And if McCain votes against it...
won't he look more ridiculous after publicly saying he'd vote for/support it several times? He made a big deal about a crisis and dropping everything. Then he didn't suspend his campaign and then screwed up negotiations.

McCain is a joke.
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. This thing is such a big confusing mess
I don't think he'll get any benefit.

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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
31. CNN.com headline: Boehner says it's a "giant improvement" and urged repukes to support it. n/t
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
32. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Keep trying though, you are quite an amusing little critter.
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