Uhm...Why the hell is Obama getting a pass? He said this is OUR campaign, we don't want the bailout

[debbierlus]

Sorry, but I feel completely sick to my stomach watching this...

I see what is happening. We are SO terrified McCain will get in, that we won't openly dissent against a bill that is a OPEN HEIST & FINANCIAL WAR on the American people. Well, I am sorry, but if Obama acquiesces to this thievery out of political caution, he is NOT change, he is the same damn thing. And, he needs for us to CALL HIM and WRITE HIM, and tell him DONT YOU DARE.


Micheal Moore's letter summarizes it best - it is on the front page in the journal section, but here is the link, in case you missed it.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Hissyspit/5425

Obama has a RESPONSIBILITY to stand up for the American people, he claims he is best to represent. If he goes along with this betrayal, this robbery, he will laid bare the truth of what we have been trying to deny so long - THIS IS A ONE PARTY SYSTEM. We need to revolt against this & he needs to know there are repurcussions to his actions. He needs to know that we are not going to work our asses off and give him our hard earned money, if he won't use his position to advocate for us and represent us, (and he is in a POWERFUL ONE, there is NO political risk, America doesn't fucking want this).

I am shocked that I am already having to fight so hard to stand up for us. But, I will fight and I will call and I will write. I hope you join me.

Also call Washington & your Congress person - google toll free numbers for Congress, it won't cost a dime.

I just called and the lines are FREE & CLEAR. And, that, is very disturbing indeed.

[stray cat]

1. Some of us are not convinced the economy is in good shape and nothing should be done

We may be wrong but it may also be in the midst of a melt down. I'm not convinced I know the situation better than Obama.

[debbierlus]

26. Who said nothing should be done? This should not be done - this is astonishing

There are MANY other options that could be used to help this situation, BETTER options. Responsible options.

Have you read the bill? Do you see the powers that this give to Bush's man, Paulson? Do you see the lobbying firms lining up not only to grab the money from the treasury, but get paid to do it. Do you realize this does not protect people from home foreclosures?

You agree with throwing 3/4th of a TRILLION dollars at this thing - after a closed weekend session and a forced vote on a Monday?
This is BUSH'S PLAN. Remember, him? The one we have been fighting against for the past 7 1/2 years.

I don't even know what to say.

[iconicgnom]

33. I agree. A choice between Bush's plan or "nothing" gives no option for change, or hope.

It looks like the Dems are total toadies to the Bush admin right to the end.
But I'm so used to it, it doesn't surprise at all, in fact - it's unchanging status quo all the way.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

63. It's clearly NOT Bush's proposed bill that's being passed.

So your narrative is completely false.

[iconicgnom]

101. The original "no conditions" bill wasn't meant to pass.

It was meant as a negotiating ploy. Usually a ploy would have to be less transparent than that, but not when dealing with the Dems. The figure "$700 Billion" was chosen out of the air because it is "very very large" swindle, and "no conditions" was chosen because it is as open a swindle as it is possible to get. From there, the Dems got totally on board negotiating a "come down" agreement, which agreesg in essence with both the purported "necessity" of the plan, as well as the absurdly forced time-table (which is also characteristic of Bush's swindles). All the photo-ops thereafter were of Bush, the guy who knew what needed to be done to save the world, flanked on both sides by big-shot Dems who were negotiating with Bush's team to get Bush's deal done, with a few qualifiers, on Bush's timetable.

If that isn't Bush's bill, nothing is.

[girl gone mad]

28. Something should be done,

but this bill is a bad deal. We could do significantly better.

[leftofcool]

2. Obama took Bush's bait hook line and sinker

just like Pelosi and Reid.

[babylonsister]

20. Feel better, and you're still here? nt

[Cosmic Charlie]

48. some folks just can't give up the grudge

[ruggerson]

54. Welcome back to DU

[Cosmic Charlie]

60. your grudge is gigantic

it doesn't take long to realize that.
you take the same positions again and again.

[ruggerson]

114. Don't try to butter me up

I see dead people.

[Bucky]

3. "We"?

Some of us don't; some of us do; some of us want it changed before it passes.

Call him and raise your voice, by all means. But if you didn't know Obama was a moderate before, now's a good time to find out.

[debbierlus]

14. Moderate? This bill is RIGHT WING EXTREMISM

I knew damn well he wasn't a moderate, he was never my first choice. However, I did not expect THIS...

This is a slap in the face. And, if the American people think they are going to get any type of real change with a President who goes along with the theft of our treasury, they are in for one hell of a rude awakening.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

50. This bill is not right-wing extremism.

Which is one of the reasons why the loony supply-siders in the Republican party don't like it. Their (stupid, stupid) solution is to get rid of ALL regulation and the capital gains tax.

[smiley_glad_hands]

51. No the dem bill is modeled after the New Deal. eom

[Raineyb]

73. Where are the fixes?

This bill does nothing to fix the causes of this disaster in the first place. Throwing money at the banks while not fixing the underlying problems is just allowing Wall Street to rape the American taxpayer. I think they've done enough of that don't you think? They could at least pass a tax on stock transfers to help curb speculation.

It's all good and all to look forward to Obama fixing these problems after the fact but that assumes he gets elected, and I never make any assumptions when it comes to the public, after all people voted for Bush in 2004. In addition, this bailout is going to end up being the excuse as to why we can't fix other things like our health care system. They're going to tell us that we don't have the money all so we can buy the bank's bad paper with no guarantee that they won't start writing bad mortgages again. This is not a winner for the country.

Regards

[RoyGBiv]

67. Oh. My. God.

Okay, now there are many rational reasons to oppose this bill, but calling it right-wing extremism is spending a year's allotment of tokens from the hyperbole fairy.

[msallied]

92. I think the hyperbole fairy is having a nervous breakdown now. lol

[comrade snarky]

129. This looks like a job for!

[Life Long Dem]

97. Sorry, but I think it's a dumb choice to make a decsion on.

Michael Moore is just being a pain in the ass. Screw his game playing politics during this crisis in an election.

Obama has proven himself over an over again to me, to feel he won't be playing politics, unless it's necessary in order to win.

And if Paulson acted a year and a half ago when Obama urged then to do something about a housing foreclosure situation, the financial institutions wouldn't need bailing out and the middle class wouldn't be hurting as bad.

[H2O Man]

103. "he was never my first choice"

Shocking, that.

[Curtland1015]

4. Yeah, what "we"? Some of us actually think something SHOULD be done. N/T

[PVnRT]

10. We're not included in the true "we"

"Real" leftists want everything to crash and burn. Why, 44 economists from the University of Chicago oppose the plan, and we know how liberal they are!

[lligrd]

5. I Won't Blame Obama Alone But I Will Blame Congress

I must say though that it is not their duty to do what we think they should but what they think is right. Given that, I am still at a loss.

[kid a]

6. it's very simple. let me explain. he will LOSE if he blocks it. LOSE. hear me?

A McCain/Palin WH, accompanied with that bill - which will pass with or without his vote, is exponentially worse for everybody.

Sometimes you have to swallow very big pills for the greater good.

[babylonsister]

13. Yep. As Krugman has written, a lot of this can be reversed, AFTER

Obama wins. All this 'the sky is falling' is NOT helping.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=7233541

[debbierlus]

27. They are the ones claiming the sky is falling.

Not me. They are the ones that are forcing this down our throats in closed door weekend sessions and demanding a vote on Monday morning.

And, that is IF Obama gets in, or have you forgotten Ohion in 2004 & Florida in 2000? Perhaps you missed the front page post - Robert F Kennedy Jr was warning of a vote caging operation so big in Colorado, it could cost us a 1/4th of our votes?

Yeah. Let's keep our powder dry. Why does that sound so familiar?

[babylonsister]

31. Why is your hair on fire? We have an election in a few weeks.

Do you want to jeopardize that, or do you enjoy the drama? Did you even bother to read Krugman's article? He knows a helluva lot more about the economy than I do, and I suspect he's more knowledgeable than you are.
Yes, there are tons of economists and they all have different ideas and opinions, but screaming 'fire' in a crowded room or running around trying to instill panic is not helping.

[1corona4u]

70. Ahh....the voice of reason. Thank you.

:-)

[leftofcool]

21. He may lose if he votes for it.

It is only going to get worse and the Dems will get blamed for it.

[kid a]

22. he may lose...that is a fact.

[RichGirl]

93. If he loses because of this bill....

...it will be the dem voters fault and they will DESERVE McCain/Palin.

And it will be the fault of the dem activist groups who never pass up an opportunity to eat their own, who don't have the patience to wait for us to be in power before sounding their alarm. Their attempts to save us end up screwing us repeatedly because their egos are bigger than their intelligence.

[msallied]

94. Damn right.

[debbierlus]

34. No. They are playing the fear card. And, a McCain/Palin Whitehouse would be tethered

With the noose they are trying to hang around Obama's neck...This bill isn't going to solve ANYTHING. The real problem is not the 'credit crunch'. The credit crunch is a symptom of a American society so dependent on foreign aid that if we cease to borrow, we CRASH. All this bill does is extend the bubble. That is it. No job creation. No plan to keep anyone in their homes and stop foreclosure. I have said it in other areas of this thread, but it is SURREAL to watch DU defend this bill because Obama supports it. A Bush bill. A bill to benefit the perpetrators of the crimes.

There are other solutions. They are rushing to get this through not because the economy will crash the second it doesn't pass, but because if it is exposed to the light of day, it will fail. Nothing ever good comes out of these rushed weekend financial dealings, closed door and without review.

When did we become a people so fearful, we won't even speak out for what is right?

It is precisely this reason, we stand where we are today.

[iheartmulletz]

87. Amen. Any so-called economic movement after this bill (God forbid) passes

is smoke and mirrors. A house of cards that has a very weak, almost non-existent foundation.

Perhaps Obama feels he must support it in order to win the election. I dunno. I also cannot fathom why so many of our guys in Congress are supporting this! I mean, has anyone seen that footage of the VA Republican congressman who was asking his aide what the people were saying on the phone? It was like 99.8 opposed, LOL.

[Realityhack]

117. Worse yet... WE will loose.

This isn't an imaginary crisis the way so many people think it is. We are going to feel the crunch with or without the bailout but without it (and especial without the conditions attached) the nations economy is severely fucked. And that means we are all fucked.

[ContinentalOp]

121. LOL, I think you got that one backwards. The bill didn't pass. McCain would have voted against it.

Obama would have lost.

[Diamonique]

7. The bill is a done deal. Obama is only one vote and can't change that.

I'd rather expend my energy getting him elected.

[K Gardner]

8. I think you assume a lot to diss Obama on behalf of "we". I certainly don't think

I know more than Obama, and I trust him.

I don't like the idea of a trillion dollars to Wall St. But I don't like the idea of food and gas lines either.

Please don't start demonizing Barack Obama on behalf of "we". Say "I", if you must, but not we. You don't speak for everyone and everyone is not in agreement about this.

[debbierlus]

42. There are going to be food and gas lines, anyway.

And, this isn't demonizing Barack Obama.

This is about speaking out for what is right. And, if publicly disagreeing with our nominee is not allowed, I would say to you that we have become what we despise in Bush supporters.

Lemmings.

Sheep.

[Cosmic Charlie]

53. you're making yourself look silly again

last week was evidence of what will happen if nothing is done.

Lehman Bros was allowed to collapse and the next day the market went belly up.

If AIG had been allowed to do the same, it would have gotten worse.

Without a bailout, there will be dozens of 'Lehman Bros' going down, and they will take our economy with them.

Just because you don't want to use taxpayer dollars does not eliminate the existing crisis.

[grannie4peace]

9. I TRUST OBAMA !!!

[Frank Cannon]

86. I do too, simply because it's in his own best interest not to screw it up

Since he is the likely winner of the next election, if this doesn't help fix things and only postpones the agony, he will be squarely blamed for it.

[Connie_Corleone]

11. You don't speak for me. I have a different opinion.

[lamp_shade]

12. Who's "WE"? I for one am with Obama.

[Claire Beth]

17. Same here! n/t

[debbierlus]

So, you go along with this bailout? Why? Why besides Obama?

What do you like about it?

What will it do for you?

How will it serve the American people?

I would be fascinated to hear why you think this legislation is a good thing for the people.

[lamp_shade]

24. Yup. My retirement savings have dropped 30% in the last month or

two and I'm 1-2 years from retirement. As you can imagine, I'm a little panicked. Call me selfish, but I want something done and I want it done fast. I trust Obama to tell me the truth.

[lamp_shade]

83. .

[iiibbb]

78. Ok.. I'll bite

What do you like about it? There's a lot not to like... but it has two features that beats the original plan. First, it's for 250 B to start. That will get us through January. Second, it left the door open to revisit the problem and change things after the election.

What will it do for you? It will make sure that I keep getting a paycheck. It will make sure that I can still go to the store and buy groceries.

How will it serve the American people? There is a threat of a meltdown on the order of a depression. Keeping the market liquid gives us time to devise alternative courses of action.


I don't claim to be an economic guru. I do know enough to tell that nobody really knows what's going on. Anyone who claims they know exactly what's going to happen or not happen is full of it. That's what makes this a crisis... the correct course of action is not known. So we've been forced to hedge ourselves against a economic seizure. It will affect people well beyond Wall Street.

Politicians... people in here... it's all spin. The stakes of the election spun up with the stakes of the economy.

The only facts that I do know is that Obama has demonstrated a keen ability to figure out solutions to complicated problems. So... my only question is do I trust Obama or McCain. Obama says this is necessary. I believe him. I trust Obama to get this worked out.

Goal 1 to me is to avoid a depression. The only person I trust to judge whatever plan is presented is Obama.

[kid a]

15. Oh..and you owe 25 calls to Ohio for this nonsense post.

[KittyWampus]

16. You are so uniformed it's embarrassing. Fools speak for themselves.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

64. Amen.

[Gman]

18. Obama is doing the right thing

in what could be a no win situation.

Something needs to be done. THis is a good start. But I'm afraid it's not the end. This has to be done.

[Teaser]

19. knock yourself out. I don't know who's right here

so I'm staying out of it.

[ShortnFiery]

23. Obama should wake up to the desires of the lion's share of the American People.

Anyone who doesn't have at least $300,000 to invest in the stock market should be AGAINST this corporate bail out.

[stray cat]

25. And equal rights for women, African Americans and sexual orientation

is wrong? After all I don't think that was the view of the American majority at the time.

[ShortnFiery]

30. No, this is a GIVE AWAY to Corporate America. Your analogy is not apt. eom

[debbierlus]

40. Interesting to see the complete lack of any defense for the plan by those who 'support' it...

I don't think anyone here does support this plan. They have allowed themselves to be terrorized by the Bush threats. Abadoning courage and silencing your voice against wrong is not the correct response to this type of thing.

What would Martin Luther King, Jr say?

[ShortnFiery]

43. Yes, how CRAZY?!? We are supposed to TRUST Congress and the BushBotBorg?

Excuse the expression: But trusting Congress and THIS Executive Branch to "do the right thing" is just FUCKING NUTS! :crazy:

Wake up America?!?

[Bluenorthwest]

85. No offense, but send me a PM when I get those equal rights

GLBT people don't have equal rights in this country, and knowing that fact can help us to get them. You use the past tense, and the pharse 'at the time' as if we have passed some sort of law, but the fact remains that GLBT people in many states can be fired, evicted and discriminated against freely with full support of the law.
Also, the Equal Rights Amendment never passed, but I'll leave that to the women to address.

[KittyWampus]

32. this isn't about the stock market so you have just handily exhibited your ignorance

about this situation. Thanks

[ShortnFiery]

37. And your IGNORANCE is the fact that this is being RUSHED. You are the lemmings. eom

[BlueInPhilly]

29. Please speak for yourself

I for one believe the market needs this to avert a severe liquidity crisis. The solution may not be elegant enough, but it is a solution.

[ShortnFiery]

35. Then follow the BushBotBorg off the cliff ... they'll be living HIGH, but the non-wealthy won't.

:(

[Zynx]

36. Ever take a political science class? Obama is acting as an agent here rather

than a representative because the people he represents don't know what they are talking about.

[ShortnFiery]

38. Yes, all us unwashed masses? - why not just call it FASCISM.

:grr:

[msallied]

95. EXACTLY!

I said it earlier and I will say it again, if complex issues such as these were left up to the "voters," we would have failed as a nation long ago. Most people have no effing idea how these things work, yet they like to pretend they do. The idea is to elect smarter people to represent us. That principle has failed us in recent years with the election of Bush and his cronies and this mess is a direct result of NOT electing people smarter than us. We're trying to fix that with Barack Obama. I stand behind him.

[Dawgs]

39. "WE"

Speak for your fucking self.

Obama has earned my trust. You, on the other hand...

[ShortnFiery]

41. Yeah, I like Obama but I don't "Idol Worship" any politician. It's time for Obama to pay attention

to us unwashed masses.

[lamp_shade]

44. Well... he's paying attention to "ME" and I'm thankful for that.

[ShortnFiery]

46. Let's check out your opinion after the BushBotBorg has pissed away 450 billion of OUR tax

dollars before President Obama has been Inaugurated? There won't be any money to help ANYONE. :nuke:

[debbierlus]

52. Read the Top Front Page Post -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3517230

Man, you are so right. Paulson will be in until JANUARY.

It will be long since stolen by the time Obama shows up.

[geek tragedy]

45. Take your purity trolling somewhere else, Naderite. n/t

[dbmk]

47. You really think that the dems wouldn't let this house of cards fall,

.., if it didn't mean that the damage to society would be even harsher than what they are doing now?

[debbierlus]

49. That is the big LIE. We are going to fall anyway. This bill won't prevent it

How is saddling the American people with bad debt going to help any of this?

Go and read the top post on the front of DU. And, then, come back here and tell me this is going to save us.

[Jennicut]

56. I think its the right thing. You get a depression or a bailout, that is your choice.

Many are angry here especially on the GD board but there are not many options left. Bush left us with this mess and we have to clean it up and that means making the crappy decisions of taking on massive debt or watching the economy go bye bye. I would rather take on the debt. Yes, Obama is left with no real money to do many of the things he wants but that is the way it goes. Bush won twice (even if he stole it) and he wrecked it all. Bill Clinton came in with a deficit as well and managed a balanced budget. This is the presidential board as well and many of us just want a change in leadership. Please don't blame Obama for Bush's mistakes.

[npincus]

55. speak for yourself- there is no choice.

We are weeks or days or hours away from this disappearance of liquidity hitting ALL of us, a few dominoes have dropped and the bailout is an attempt to stave off the rest. Ancedotally, a firend who works for a Wall Street bank said (last week) 2 of her clients, a hospital, and a sports equip manufacterer- employer of 25,000 had ZERO access to liquidity, meaning they could no longer operate. That is happening all over, everywhere, and whatever fuck-ups have caused this unless a measure is taken to stop it, we will see devastation on the scale of the Great Depression-- how does 30-40% unemplyment sound to you? Try getting money from an ATM when this happens. You won't.

Obama is doing the right thing.

[RichardRay]

57. You do NOT speak for me.

If you want to disagree with Obama's position on this issue, then that's fine. However, you don't speak for me and I really don't appreciate your attempt to usurp my voice. Please don't do it.

[secondwind]

58. I think you will need to take a deep breath..............the situation couldn't

be any more horrific, however, (and I am not an economist)..........the alternative is so much worse.

Now, do you have half a million stored away in your mattress? Then you may be able to survive , but just barely, because inflation would hit this country so hard, that two shopping bags of groceries would require you to push a wheelbarrow worth of dollars through the supermarket door.

If we do not do this, you will not be able to either borrow money (car, house,), and not only our banks may go under, but we are so entangled with other economies -- that we may just take them down with us.

I haven't slept well for almost a week and have been up since 2:30 this morning. I firmly believe that we NEED to do this, and thank God the Democrats and Republicans came together to place some conditions on this bailout!

I would rather be burdened with $2,300+ additional debt per person in this country, than see the entire system go to crap.

[msallied]

96. Thank you. You speak pure reason.

And I'm having a hard time sleeping as well. This is really worrying the hell out of me.

[zulchzulu]

59. Do you have a 401k or any other investments?

Like it or not, you should. And if you do, you'd notice how you have a fraction of what you had a month ago. Should something be done? I think so. If you look at how the bill was changed, it's a hell of a lot better than the original.

[lamp_shade]

65. Yup. You're talking to me and I agree with you.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

61. Uhm, no, "we" don't agree with you.

This is not a robbery, and I am sorry that you have not taken the time to understand this issue. You clearly should try harder to figure out what's really at stake here.

[Barack_America]

62. Because I want the bailout?

Because I see a $3000 personal investment in greater control over Wall Street as a good investment.

[weezie1317]

66. I WANT the bailout. Obama is speaking for me here.

[olegramps]

68. I share your revulsion but listen to reason

Many if not most Americans share your contempt for the irresponsible greedy people who created this economic disaster. However, the situation is dire. Banks are refusing to make loans in fear that they could put themselves in a cash strapped position if people are forced to make massive with-drawls. Let's use my brother-in-laws business as an example. His business is a small business, but these small businesses have become the a major source of employment as major corporations out-sourced jobs with the help of McCain's lobbyists. He does not have the ready cash to purchase the merchandise that he requires to stock so like most small bushinesses he goes to the bank and obtains a short time loan. This chain is the same for the manufactures that he orders merchandise from. They obtain loans to make the products they sell. If the banks shut down my brother-in-law can't get the loan to buy the merchandise. Not only he is in trouble but his four employees will have to be laid off. This would then mushroom as they don't have any money to purchase their necessities. That's how our economy works. If you allow this to happen then you are welcoming a return to the 1920's when it was basically a cash and carry economy. An economy in which the workers are little better off than slaves at the mercy of those who are lucky enough to have been born into wealth and can concentrate their wealth ar the expense of the working class.

This is why it is imperative that Senator Obama be elected along with a majority of Democrats in congress. This is the only way that the modern day Republican Robber Barons can be stopped. Pass the bail-out bill and then on January 20, 2009 begin the most comprehensive pursuit of the bastards that are responsible for this disaster. Open in-depth investigations of criminal conspiracy and demand that Justice, FBI, SEC and local prosecutors go after these bastards with jail terms and massive fines. Reinstate the regulatory laws that were passed in the FDR era that were dismantled by the crooked Republicans and McCain's gang of Lobbyists and pass regulation that will make these bastards accountable with heavy fines and mandatory jail terms. There is no lower scum than someone who steals from their own family to satisfy their greedy desires. The Wall Street Robber Barons are the same type of scum bags who steal from their fellow Americans to fuel their lavish life styles. What make me even sicker is they are the very same people who say that their party is the party of the pious God fearing Christians while casting Liberals as degenerates. Nothing more than hypocrisy. Don't just get mad, get even.

[tandot]

69. You don't speak for me.

Obama has great economic advisers on his team. And, as the President, he can work with Democrats to make revisions to the plan.

[kevinds13]

71. Why all the concern?

Paulson's bill failed and they drafted a new one with regulation, oversight, and recooperative steps so that we can make the money back on interest. People need to actually go read the language of the bill.

[msallied]

98. I am kicking and recommending this thread for posters like you who speak truth.

[Joe the Revelator]

72. "We"?? Unless you have a mouse in your pocket...speak for yourself

[torbird]

74. Lesson #1 (remedial): this is POLITICS. Not "what do you wish for"?

Maybe Obama can win a political election by doing whatever the hell he likes (no, strike that -- whatever some of his supporters want him to do), but it looks doubtful. I guess he should just spend all his time railing against the bailout that Congress is supporting, so that if and when the economy gets better he can get flogged by McCain. Maybe just in time for election day! That would be awesome!

Seriously. It's called politics. It's not wish-fulfillment. Obama has to win, FIRST, before he can change anything.

[busymom]

75. I don't support the bailout either.

I also wish Obama would come out stronger in support of more controls, etc. I want to be careful about criticizing him though...

[DevonRex]

109. Obama enumerated the controls he would like to see happen and

it looks like they are included in the bill.

[eshfemme]

76. Read the fucking bill

It's available online as a PDF on the front page of CNN.com

READ IT before you give some BS about the plan. If you want to cite Michael Moore's letter then read the plan first and then see if your opinions jibe with him. But it sounds like you haven't even done your homework and you're working up all this bile and outrage over something that you don't even really understand. I don't want to say this but this is all too common a behavior of freepers and shouldn't be encouraged in DUers.

[Lorentz]

77. "you're working up all this bile and outrage over something that you don't even really understand"

This is par for the course on DU.

[ClarkUSA]

79. Have you taken the time to read the proposal? I have -- and it's not a bad plan for the taxpayer.

Read the plan before you post fear-based paranoia: http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/28/news/pdf/index.htm

Oh, and I trust Obama's financial brain trust (which includes Warren Buffett) more than Michael Moore (who should stick to his day job).

Here's what Obama has to say:

The breakthrough between Congress and the Administration is the culmination of a sorry period in our history, in which reckless speculation and greed on Wall Street and lax oversight from Washington led to a meltdown of our financial markets. But regardless of how we got here, a failure to deal with the current crisis would have devastating consequences for our economy, costing millions of Americans their jobs and retirement security.

To understand how this tentative deal was reached, it's important to remember how this all began. The Bush Administration initially asked for a blank check to respond to this problem, which I strongly opposed. It would have been unconscionable to expect the American people to hand this Administration or any Administration a $700 billion check with no conditions and no oversight when a lack of oversight in Washington and on Wall Street is exactly what got us into this mess. If the American people are being asked to pay for the solution to this crisis, their tax dollars must be protected.

That is why over the past ten days, in conversations with the President, Secretary of Treasury and leaders of Congress, I laid out the four core principles I believed had to guide any solution: oversight by an independent board; protections for taxpayers to ensure that they are treated like investors and that they receive any profits - and recoup any losses - from this plan; measures to help homeowners stay in their homes; and rules to make sure CEOs are not being rewarded at taxpayers' expense. While I look forward to reviewing the language of the legislation, it appears that the tentative deal embraces these principles.

When taxpayers are asked to take such an extraordinary step because of the irresponsibility of a relative few, it is not a cause for celebration. But this step is necessary. Now Washington has to show the same sense of urgency in dealing with the crisis facing Main Street and the middle class by passing an emergency economic stimulus plan that would create jobs by rebuilding our crumbing roads; shore up flagging state budgets to prevent drastic cuts in education and health care; and extend expiring unemployment insurance benefits for those who've lost their jobs in this downturn and cannot find new ones.

One final point. If elected President, I will order a thorough review of this plan to make sure that it fully lives up to the principles I've laid out. And I will also move quickly to upgrade our financial regulations for the 21st century, establishing new rules of the road and tougher oversight to ensure that the American taxpayers are never again forced to put their money and their futures at risk because of bad decisions in Washington and on Wall Street.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7238500&mesg_id=7238500

[stevietheman]

80. It's not like Bush's original crap bill passed... it wa greatly improved upon by Congress. n/t

n/t

[catgirl]

81. Somehow I doubt you were ever part of his campaign

You seem to be part of the ME ME ME campaign. Unless, there's something in it for you
personally, you'll just complain about it. You base everything on your situations, not
the overall situations.

I recall you saying recently how you had to get food stamps while you were in college.
Poor you. As a single college student, I worked and studied at the same time. I would
think food stamps should go to families in need. So, you contradict yourself.

[pecwae]

82. You are absolutely correct.

[debbierlus]

88. I am aghast at the blind support people will show to Obama on this....

[ClarkUSA]

90. You're the one with blinders, m'dear. I ask again -- have you read the entire proposal?

I think not. Otherwise, you wouldn't be throwing out ridiculous accusations like the ones in your OP and painting those
that disagree with you as "blind" followers of Obama, despite the fact he has a financial brain trust far greater than yours
on this matter. So what's your plan, then? Besides moaning and whining at the rest of us who have greater sources of
decision-making than Michael Moore? :eyes:


I have read the plan and so have many credible pro-Democratic economists/financiers such as Paul Krugman and Warren
Buffett. We are not blind followers of Obama; we simply understand the situation demands a solution beyond fear-based
handwringing.

[msallied]

99. This plan had BETTER pass. That's all I have to say. If it doesn't....

I lay awake in terror about what will happen. I had to take Nyquil last night so I could fall asleep.

[ClarkUSA]

106. If you have a Republican rep, now's the time to call them.

The vote will likely be kept open until they get the votes.

[DevonRex]

108. And I'm sick of people who blame Obama for damned near everything.

I'm sick of all the insinuations when you talk of "blind support" and the like. I'm sick of people who just want to stir up trouble. I'm sick of people who haven't even read the bill, yet come out blazing against Obama.

Mostly I'm sick of people who start threads like this so a few nutcases will follow them in attacking the candidate.

If you haven't noticed, this was a legislative compromise, involving many, many people, democrats and republicans alike. If you haven't noticed, it's not the same bill that Bush introduced. If you haven't noticed, we've already had bank failures. If you haven't noticed, we might just go into another Great Depression if something isn't done.

[chupacabranation]

84. I'm not a fan of the bailout...but I trust Obama.

...but I concede that something should be done in order to prevent a domino effect that will inevitably reach the little guy.

I would rather err on the side of caution by getting some kind of bailout through than staunchly rail against any kind of bailout, only to have businesses not be able to meet payroll and the lay-offs begin.

[Vinca]

89. I'm not entirely opposed to the bailout as long as there are provisions

for taxpayers to recover what we're laying out at some point in the future. If nothing is done, there is the very real problem of people losing their jobs because companies can't borrow money to meet payroll. Our family's primary source of income is related to real estate sales and if there is no money to lend to buy houses, we're in the bread line. I heard someone describe this as a vote between misery and disaster and that's about it.

[thewiseguy]

91. We?!

I support the plan.

[grantcart]

100. Why is it so hard to for you to believe that Republicans have brought the economy to collapse

Having lived in country's that had economic collapse and watch people going through the garbage to find something to eat I find it rather cavilier to throw away our party's leaders' diagnosis.

Friday was the debate so most people didn't see what history will record as the real story: The largest bank run in world history.


WaMu depositers withdrew a total of $ 50 billion from a country that had debt but was still operational and had a good business base to recover on.


Your local businesses are no more able to run their business without day to day loans than you are able to buy your house without a mortgage.


If everybody had to buy their houses in cash what would happen to the housing market? That is what is about to happen in the general business community.


Now why should businesses and employess of businesses who had nothing to do with the mortgage crises, who have good credit and who have assets have to cease business simply becasue they cannot get the normal day to day loans they always have to.


How many million unemployed are you willing to create to make a political point?


edited to complete incomplete sentence

[msallied]

104. I said this earlier, but it's worth repeating

Letting the country tank to teach the GOP a lesson is not how I want to do things. I want to teach them a lesson by fixing what THEY couldn't. It's how FDR did it, and it's how Obama will do it when elected. That is the example we must set if we are to prevail.

[frickaline]

105. couldn't agree more

I'm not willing to throw away the country over political wrist slapping. Regardless of how we got here, something needs to keep markets up and running. After we prevent the rest of the US from unemployment, homelessness and bankruptcy we can start working on helping out those in need.

I know it is frustrating to give money to the people that likely put us in this situation but the alternative would be complete financial collapse of our markets.

[catgirl]

113. Thank you grantcart for making some sense of all of this

Some people don't see the big picture (the real world) and how this will
affect many people. I visited Russia 15 years ago and saw poverty everywhere.
I can imagine that is what our country could look like. Even if there is
anger towards the greedy bastards who created this situation, we have to
avert the disaster awaiting innocent people.

[Occam Bandage]

102. We don't? I'm in favor of not fiddling while America burns.

[bevoette]

107. Barack Obama is SMARTER than me...and has displayed excellent judgement thus far

i trust if he says it's necessary...it is

[BuyingThyme]

110. No pass from me, Debbierlus!

:hi:

[TheKentuckian]

111. I'd like to know how people expect to feed themselves

when this all falls down? No paychecks or ability to cash them, the trucks stop moving, the farmers don't have the capital to plant.

[Realityhack]

118. The OP (and unfortunately a lot of other people)...

simply do not understand how the economy works. They don't think this will affect them. It is downright frightening. Good think the people in office understand this is not imaginary.

[cosmodem]

112. well 94 DEMS in the House said NO...

I believe that was from cspan.


bill FAILED

[Skidmore]

115. I'm sure Obama is working behind the scenes

to inject some reason into the process, unlike McCain who has made a veritable fool of himself over the past few days by running around and screaming outrage every time you see him. Obama will try to get something going that will deal with the present and in a form that can be worked with in the future. I have confidence in the man. If you don't like him, vote for McCain. Then tell us about it later.

[Realityhack]

116. NO. That is false... SOME of us don't want a bailout...

The better informed understand it is important.

[Doityourself]

119. I'm with Obama..n/t

[ClarkUSA]

120. Educate yourself. Here are a few of the bill's provisons that are good for taxpayers --->

:redbox: The Treasury is supposed to consider a bunch of factors when making its decisions, including:

~ Limiting how much the taxpayer gets screwed
~ Not wasting money buying assets from banks that will croak anyway
~ Save jobs, life savings, house values, etc
~ Try to save small banks that got blown up by Fannie/Freddie collapse
~ Protect retirement savings by buying the crap assets of pension funds, too

:redbox: Oversight: Must report back to Congress after 60 days and then every 30 days thereafter. Must send Congress
a report after every $50 billion spent.

:redbox: "The Secretary make such purchases at the lowest price that the Secretary determines to be consistent with the
purposes of this Act." The Treasury has to publicly detail the prices it pays so taxpayers will have access to complete
transparency as to how their dollars are being spent.

:redbox: Helping homeowners. Must try to work with homeowners to modify loans if/when appropriate to avoid foreclosure.
Must encourage mortgage servicers to try not to boot people out of houses, instead working on ways to avoid
foreclosures.

:redbox: Equity/warrants: The Treasury MUST be granted warrants or debt instruments (senior debt) from public companies
in exchange for more than $100 million of bailout money; it must "provide for reasonable participation by the Secretary,
for the benefit of taxpayers, in equity appreciation in the case of a warrant, or a reasonable interest rate premium, in
the case of a debt instrument" AND...must provide additional protection against taxpayer losses. This is an important
and just provision.

:redbox: Ability to stop the madness. Congress can seek a preliminary or permanent injunction from a court to stop the
program.

:redbox: TIME LIMIT: The authority under the plan lasts until the end of 2009. Congress can then extend for another nine
months or so (max 2 years from the date of signing). It is fully expected that by then President Obama and his
supporters in Congress will rework the bill to reflect their growing majority power in the executive and legislative
branches.

:redbox: Oversight: A bunch of oversight provisions, including appointment of Special Inspector General.

:redbox: Financial industry will have to pay for any taxpayer losses. Upon the expiration of the 5-year period beginning
upon the date of the enactment of this Act...the President shall submit a legislative proposal that recoups from the
financial industry an amount equal to the shortfall in order to ensure that the Troubled Asset Relief Program does
not add to the deficit or national debt.

[NEDem]

122. You most certainly don't speak for me.

Obama did the right thing.

[ourbluenation]

123. speak for yourself. n/t

[JoFerret]

124. Get over it

"Our' does mean "you".
And whatever.

Obama is handling this well.

Given the crap choices.
Given we (the US) will only elect a middle of the road centrist at best.

[chicagoexpat]

125. insanity reigns where people have no sense -- go back to Rush Limbaugh

[Thothmes]

126. What if he does not, you gonna take your vote somewhere else.

[renie408]

127. What do you mean "we", paleface?? I hope to god YOU have half the problems

my friends and family have had because of this non-existent crisis. I hope you lose thousands of dollars, your job and you can't get a loan some day soon. I hope your credit lines are all shut down.

[quiller4]

128. and some of us do want the bailout.

Although calling this a Wall Street Bailout was a huge mistake. The problem is a credit crunch that will cause manufacturing to shrink and unemployment to rise. The market merely reflects the losses firms of all sizes will experience if credit isn't freed up.

The credit crunch has already cost my community several hundred jobs. A local car dealership that couldn't secure flooring for 2009 models, the bank financing of new inventory, closed its doors putting 60+ people out of work. Two manufacturing firms cut shifts beccause they are having so much trouble getting financing for parts inventory.

This kind of thing is happening in communities all over the country and it is hitting small firms first and hardest.

[BlueIdaho]

130. You only get to speak for yourself - K?

I be responsible for letting the campaign know how I feel about this if you don't mind.